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Author Topic: The State of Cisco Supply/Demand  (Read 24478 times)
chodan
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2002, 02:00:28 AM »

You can`t really blame Greenspan for the dot bomb.
 It was inevitable "in retrospect:D"
 I know you guys feel rough to make "only" 65K a year but I can`t wait for the day when I come close to that mark.
 I have to say things are somewhat on the upswing in KY.
 I guess those companies figure why pay some cali tech 100 grand when they can pay a KY tech 50.
 One difference though is you can live well here "even with a mortgage and car payments" on 20 to 30 K a year, + no noise, smog or high crime.
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2002, 02:08:13 AM »

so what was the company where 4 billion was stolen from?

Are you sure you just aren't choosing to ignore the fact that many companies would have crashed irrespective of their mgmt?

Perhaps the difference between good and bad mgmt was simply the time it took for the dot.coms to go down the plughole....in which case dying fast better reallocates resouces into the market...?
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Michael Coates
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2002, 02:22:43 AM »

I sorta agree to what your saying except I worked for a company that has been around for some form or fashion for 50 years!

Hopefully your right on the last part, by the way I never made more then 50K/year and I would be happy with 35K - 40K now, but just don't see it and I know a few people in my area who recntly took 20 - 30% paycuts to keep all their jobs and they work for a Hospital.
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wirechild
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2002, 02:26:42 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by chodan
You can`t really blame Greenspan for the dot bomb.
 It was inevitable "in retrospect:D"
 I know you guys feel rough to make "only" 65K a year but I can`t wait for the day when I come close to that mark.
 I have to say things are somewhat on the upswing in KY.
 I guess those companies figure why pay some cali tech 100 grand when they can pay a KY tech 50.
 One difference though is you can live well here "even with a mortgage and car payments" on 20 to 30 K a year, + no noise, smog or high crime.


I would be happy to move to KY for 40K a year, but I really don't see much listed for there.

I have about 140 local newspapers that I search every other day and about 70 other job sites that I search and I see at most 4 or 5 new jobs posted daily nation wide this is 20 - 30 a week and about 200,000 people trying to get these jobs. It just doesn't add up.
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mcoates
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2002, 02:29:50 AM »

One of the first things in a boom to go out the window is perspective...

In reality there was no American nationwide dot.com boom...just an anomaly on the east and west coastal regions...and a few other regions...

50k is still a good salary i'll bet and probably 90% of America would love to be earning that much...

the dot.com bust is simply a market self regulation.

Now everyone is seeing what the real "demand" for IT people is...
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Michael Coates
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chodan
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2002, 10:38:41 AM »

Plus many people are paying the price of floating from company to company every 6 to 12 months demanding more money each time.
 Not a bad short term plan but in a job market like this employers want to see some stability in employees.
 Thats just my opinion though.
 As for news papers my gues is your looking in metropolitain news papers, you won`t find rural jobs listed in metro news papers.
 One thing you can try is many of the telco`s like AT&T have a job mailer that comes to your email when a position opens that matches the criteria you set up.
 Also there are some openings in Verizon in our area "which is soon to be altell" due to the buyout many long term employees are buying there retirement packages and leaving early in order to not lose some of there retirement packages to altell. Most of the positions are Customer Engineer and technician positions.
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2002, 11:20:50 AM »

The top regions for Cisco jobs are

1. Silicone Valley - 121 job listings
2. New York - 81
3. Washington DC - 48
4. Chicago - 40
5. Virginia (Richmond ) - 32

I think Houston, Dallas and Austin combined had 30 jobs

There has to be jobs under the radar and I firmly believe government (Virginia and DC) is on the hunt for Cisco personal. Any Opionions?
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2002, 10:45:10 AM »

I do not lament over the state of the market.

It is a mere observation.

I am the guy who has had many opportunities to be permanent at many very good companies.

That is not the problem here.

The problems occur when one becomes acquainted to the 100k lifestyle (me and the wife) and then have to figure out how to survive on 55-75k.

That's the reality.

I consolidated bills, refinanced vehicles, applied for unemployment (yep), got rid of every possible luxury in order to bring my cost of living down to the point that I can afford to take a 38k-45k job.

I am planning to stay at the next job at least 1-2 years at least.

So if you here me on a Telco's helpdesk that's why...


Now if you are getting started, I'd say find a place where you are comfortable salary wise and lifestyle-wise and bank the rest.

Do not become accustomed to having every new toy, gadget, luxury apartments and late model vehicles.


It's hard when for 2-3 years you've been making the bucks but reality is ultimately reality.

It's not that bad.  I have a few cushions - Thanfully.

Did have to cancel on closing on my house.

But life goes on.

Interview on Monday.

signed up for some state-sponsored re-education programs.

Hey scholarships for 2-years of college and they have programs that pay for MCDBA/MCSE/CCNA/CCNP/OCDBA/CIW and even Jave Certs.

(The field is getting crowded quickly)

They are pumping some 30-50 people a day into IT in my town alone on these programs.

Maybe they have been doing it for quite a while (since 9/11 at least).

I guess that is the real reason.

Somehow an MCSE used to be a high-level certification and now it is only good for 18-25k on a help desk.

Go figure...

I guess it is our fault for not mainitaining the quality and dignity of the cert.

If all one has to do is study for 4 hours to pass a test, then naturally it becomes worthless.

I know some actually go to schools and some buy their labs and make things happen and can even tell you why.

Those of us who can set up a fully functional network complete with SQL-based Server Applications, Exchange Servers, Firewalls, Routers and Switches, perform structured cabling, and fully document the thing in 1-4 weeks and then ask if they want fries with that are clouded by those who cannot.

And how many of the newbies can perform network analysis or network monitoring via SNMP or have even heard of RMON?

Makes it hard on the hiring manager.

Yep.  One of two things will happen these people will either get fired or get experienced by fire...

My bet is experience by fire...

They'll get better.  But the salaries will decrease -> Simple Supply and demand.

Gone are the days of setting up a network for 3-10 people and charging 1000.00 per day.

Hard to do when a newbie says will do it for 300.00 a week.  After all he has his MCSE and A+ certification that he just finished studying and passing the exam two or three weeks ago.  

And what's more he might have passed both sets in as little as 2-9 days.

Yep.

He's the equal to a 8-15 year vet who can touch a computer and know what is wrong and how to fix it.

But that is what happens when we are reduced to commodities.

So while my credential may suggest 90k and the last 8 years of my civilian life have been dedicated to I.T. and networking.

I am happy to accept a 38-45k job and feel lucky to get a local one.


Sorry -> I have called and visited 1st hand nearly every company offering a job in the last 6-7 weeks in my town.

They have some 200-500 resumes to pick from.

Now if you are the beseiged HR person are you going to look through 200-500 resumes or simply pick the first 10-12 that catch your eye and appear to meet the requirements.

That is correct.

Why bother...

So it is simply the luck of the draw...
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Comblues

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cahillrobert
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2002, 10:48:49 PM »

Six months ago I got laid-off. Based on this thread nothing new here.

Wait I was told was that the network infrastructure and management systems I designed and implemented were now remotely supportable.  We don't need you now.

I always thought that if you did a good job for the 6000 clients you would get a reward, a pat on the back, not a knife in the gut.  

To make it worse the guys who did little to nothing are still pulling in their 65-75K.

During the past few months sitting on my duff I cmpleted the MCSA, and 3/4 of the CCNP (without braindumps, Transcenders, et al.)

Starting to get calls! However there are others out there that are brushing up on their certs also.  Maybe I should just say "@!#$" it and do it the easy way.

Sitting on one's butt this long is hurting on one's pride.
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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2002, 01:38:37 AM »

Cahillrobert

Sorry to hear this, I don't know what to say. I would like to say, go out there and knock on doors, and maybe that would land a job, for now. How about 5 years from now though. You see, I think there is going to continue to be an increase in demand only to exceeded buy supply. Just like in Engineering, companies will hire younger and cheaper people. Different automated Technologies (application developers) are going to hurt in the industry, I do not know how much though. I started out in my quest and bought the equipment (lab), moving toward a pilot network, with traffic and have my NP soon. I am not to sure if this will help me though. I wonder how over seas will be, the projected future for the next 10 years, I see growth, it can only go one way, and that is up.

Any more stories like cahillrobert ?
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2002, 07:41:44 AM »

comblues makes several good points about fiscal responsibility.
 Even if you have the 6 figure job don`t act as if its written in stone.
 Heck if I made that much and did not change my lifestyle "which ain`t bad" I could save 60 grand a year.
 Not that I would but I could.
 I have a new boss coming in he just got hire as "Director of Telecomunications" he was making 6 figures at his old job but they were closing operations in his area and told him he could move to Detroit and make even a little more, he started looking and found the job with us making much less but he fell in love with the area "heck he was boating down here every weekend on lake cumberland".
 He is not exactly happy about making less  money but I think he`s happy to raise his young daughter here instead of in a large city.
Moral: there is more to life than money I suppose.
 And as I said you can live well down here with much less.
 I used to be dismayed by how much other areas in the US paid till I looked at the cost of living.
 Heck just property costs.
 How much does a decent 1 acre lot cost where you guys are??
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2002, 01:36:43 PM »

I, myself, have re-structured my debt.  Made it possible for to live on a 30k+ cut and be happy.

I've even come to accept that unless one of the out-of-state opportunities becomes a reality that I will be re-inventing my skills locally.

My NT is out of date.  I need to get Metaframe XP for my Citrix.  May be a good time to get certified with Novell (back in the day we believed them all to be just "paper".  Get some of my Lucent and 3Com qualifications completed.


And of course, finish the CCIE and a BSIT (need about 3 classes).

So this is a time to also re-evaluate what I am trying to get out of my career (money or just being happy working with good people and new technologies).

And of course, spend more time with family, even get back to the gym.

Whew!

Just a few positive things...

Got caught up in the rat-race, time to get back on track for what I got into the field for in the first place...

Ciao
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Comblues

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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2002, 09:03:30 PM »

I accept the view of the original poster.

But, times will change. Now IT got over supply of talents. Certainly, this will nto be the case always.
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2002, 12:03:37 AM »

Interesting live articles posted and food for thoughts thought though it painted a rather negative scenario for the IT industry.

I remembered back then from 94 to 97 in China, one of my regular vendor and I had an interesting discussion on the various careers path.  The core gist is IT is a poor man job relative to others.  Of course I disagree back then reflecting upon myself and those I knew.  There might be fundamental truth in his statement.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

It might not help, but Worry is only worry when you worry over your worry.  As said, every cloud had a silver lining.  Let's view it as currently stormy weather for the IT industry.  Believe there shall come a day when those "toothless tigers" were be withered out or burned by fire as and the supply reduced to those who are truly interested in IT.  Then demands pick up and the sunny weather is back.  Of course, the cycle shall repeat itself again, SIGH.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

It was fortunate that I did not invest much money except for the books out of own pocket and the core investment is mainly my leisure time.  Well, I did all those certifications out of interest and not looking forward to anything nor did I expect anything in return.  Hence there shall be no room for disappointment other than self satisfaction upon each attainment.  Getting a job out there depends really on luck, luck and luck on arm length dealing.  Your networking (need to be someone relatively senior) helps of course, but then this situation is recommendation.  As for others, experiences, qualifications, certifications etc. is questionable, my own thought based on my personal experiences and observations.  Simple rule, how to expect IT manager (those who have not even participate in any implementation, those who knows IT superfically by acronyms only) to sniff out true guru from let say 100 applicants much less if it is done by HR.

I shall end my note here and wish all of you out there success in your endeavors.
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2002, 12:15:26 AM »

It was fortunate that I did not invest much money except for the books out of own pocket and the core investment is mainly my leisure time

I also followed the same. I paid for my books and the exams only. (I am a book lover).

Nowadays I tend to buy vendor neutral books and open source books.

Well, I am also optimistic and I regret nothing. Even I gave up a career in Electical/Electronic Engineering though it was my degree. Now, I know my salary will be higher if I had started as an electonic engineer. But no worry. I like the job I do, although my salary is not upto the standard.
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