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Author Topic: The State of Cisco Supply/Demand  (Read 24499 times)
comblues
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« on: June 05, 2002, 09:28:54 AM »

As of March 31, 2001

Cisco announced that there were 35,000 attempts for the CCIE Written.

18,000+ passed it.

At the same time about 18,000+ lab attempts to date.

Around 5800 or so current CCIE's (with about 476 not being current i.e decertified).


We all know that the numbers have swollen by nearly 4000 more CCIE's in the last 15 months.

The Cisco Academy claims 297,000 enrolled students this year.



The job-market was going bust anyway after Y2K and before 9/11.

However with the injection of 297,000 more "young" souls into a market the rates were bound to decrease and the jobs opportunities as well.

The Six-Figure CCIE may be a thing of the past in another year or two.

By most accounts it has been reduced to 60-90k as we speak.

At least that's what the jobs boards are offering on dice and monster.

Do a search on simple CCIE and the 40 or so jobs that show up do not pay much, period.

Lot of expense and learning just to make an MCSE's wages.

But then MCSE's are starting to show up as help-desk people 10-15 per hour.  Maybe 20???

Signs of the times.

The good old degree is starting to look good.

I'm in Orlando Florida and they try to call it a technology hub...

Reality is Help Desk Hub for Technology Companies (Oracle, Dell, AT&T, Sprint, etc.).

All want the most bang for their buck.

So our 70,000 IT Professionals are taking it up the wrong end...


Jobs - Hell last year if you looked there were 70-100 for most everything and most paid well...

This year if 5 are posted in a week or two.  You feel like ti is a thunderstorm.

We are a desert.  Very dry here...

I'm trying to relocate for wetter landscape...


Fact is even the training centers here are suffering.

Dershya is trying to sell (One of the long-time training centers).

IADT is trying to pump as many people as can qualify through their program, same fot ITT Tech and Tech Train...

Next we have one of our the local recruiters who closed 3 of their 4 offices this quarter.

We have a major contract/consult firm that will layoff 1800 IT Techs (Programmers, Techs, Admins, Engineers, Project Managers, etc.) any day now.

Nope if you got a job in Central Florida you better hang on to it.



Cause we are dryer than the Sahara...

I feel for the kids spending 10,000+ to get thier A+ and MCSE and will barely be able to get a 10.00 per hour job...

Go to the community college spend 2500-3500.00 and get a career that pays 20-30 per hour.

And I am no light-weight either.

I'm a speaker/consultant, Admin/Engineer, and Designer/Tech.  Got most of the skillsets and experience people like to see.

I'm also fairly young - only 33.

So it is not an age issue.

I've been in IT in the area since 1993 and and overall since 1987.

I have tons of experience.

I even dumb my resume doen to simply tech or admin just to get a bite...

Not even a call back

So let's see -> Got excellent skills and references; got certs and education, tons of actual experience...

Yet got no job...

Unless the H-1B's want to get a job at McDonald's with me, it's as dry here as anywhere.


Yes, I do get replies for the 100-125k jobs out of state.  

They say my resume looks good but they want a "local" candidate...

So much for the few 6 digit jobs that are left.

Not even call-backs on the local 35-45k jobs...

This is sad...

Signs of the times...

Hopefully better soon...

Just rescheduled my CCIE Lab...

Getting tough in these parts...
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Comblues

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SurfinUSA
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2002, 10:07:05 AM »

I do think you are right about the market getting saturated and salaried coming down.  However, I do think that the 35-40K jobs you are applying for are beneath you, and they know that.  So why waste thier time, because the way they figure it is that they call you up, and you say you are not interested because of the money issue.  They expect, with your credentials, "he is a 90-???K a year guy, not a 35-40K a year guy, so why bother?"  I have seen this myself in just trying to get a PC tech job (when I was unemployed).  I couldnt get them to call me back for a first interview, when I was very well qualified.  They think, he will just get the job until he finds something else better, then quit us.
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wirechild
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2002, 12:53:15 PM »

Although I just lost my job recently I have lookig for the last couple months and I am seeing the exact same things you are.

I am completely frustrated and stressed out to a point that it is time to consider a different career field and at 30 I don't have a lot of time to prepare for a new career. I recently went to a very large job fair and there was at lest 200 companies hiring in all fields except IT & Telco. If I was a nurse a could be making $40 an hour with the same experience that I have in the IT field and the cost of training would have been all paid for by hospitals instead of most coming out of my pocket.

I have applied for at least 30 jobs and not a single call back. One thing I did find out about one of the jobs I sent my resume to they had recieved about 600 applicants in a week after posting.

I am consider doing something related to database administration. I see a lot of jobs in this area that have been open a while. It shouldn't be too hard for me to migrate to this.

Maybe something will change soon!!!
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drizzits
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2002, 02:55:58 PM »

I say it all the time to the people coming in here you wna tstability you want secruity this is not the place. I wish I new how to program as good as I know networking that is a stable steady market.
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sean34
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2002, 10:50:29 PM »

wirechild,

I feel the same why you do man...
Im skeptical about the whole industry and the thought of a career change is in my mind as well.  Im 24, got a 4yr degree/certs, and experience with a good company but i feel if i get laid off Ill be unemployed for some time.  lets hope it doesnt come to that Smiley

best of luck though in whatever you do...

Also, the DBA world is as competitive as any, it will be just as hard to find employment in that dept...or so ive heard cuz i had similiar thoughts of jumping ship.



peace

sean34
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frank300zx
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2002, 02:17:59 AM »

Its the same story here in BayArea California!! The Mecca of high tech!!. I am 37, MBA, CNE, MCSE, CCNA, soon to be CCNP with 15 years of hands on high tech. No phone calls yet for last 3 months, All I got was a job with 45% pay cut to manage helpdesk. Basically making 65K as oppose to my $129K pervious job. I figure I better get that job to pay the rent, and then thinking about opening up a restaurant...Even a hot dog stand is better than all this high tech crap!!! By the way...Boy George has no plans for high tech industry, maybe we would be better off in the oil industry!! So for the next 2 years..do whatever you can to survive even if you have to flip hamburgers!!!
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kool_kat
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2002, 03:35:59 AM »

I'm over here in Sacramento, CA (darn kings) and have been unemployed for over 9 months. Came close a few times in finding work....but there is barely any tech jobs out here. I have a finance degree and because I've been working in tech for the last 3 years, all the finance people won't hire because they want experience. I have my MSCE and CCNA and 2 yrs of NT systems and 1 yr of network support. I'm working on my CCNP. Its hard out here. Worked for a fortune 100 company, got laid off and still can't find work.  I can't take it no more. Can't even get a response from anyone. Whats goin' on!
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Is all good!!
ZacDogg
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2002, 07:56:10 AM »

Keep looking, keep trying.  Took me a full year of sending out 10-20 resumes a week and taking interviews.  Finally two weeks ago I got hired as a Network Engineer for 65K with no experience other than Tech Support sh*t.  If you try hard enough and don't give up it will happen.
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kalejaiye
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2002, 07:40:43 PM »

Ur observation and experiences may be correct.

If u persist in searching for a better one, it is very certain that one will surely come ur way. Keep moving and keep searching.
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Sea Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2002, 09:00:30 AM »

It was not long ago, Greenspan said ?the recession is over? by definition that is two consecutive quarters with growth. Wasn?t it Greenspan who started this eco-crash two years ago, which lead to the dot bombs?
He had to drop the interest rates 7, or was it 11 times to attempt to correct the rate hike in the rates 2 years ago. The stock market still maintains a down angle.

Cooking books ?, Enron got caught but many have been and continue to cook the books, Author Anderson is not the law, they do what they are told, and so it is, with ALL independent auditors- they cook books. Compaq and Hewlett are merging, there goes 15,000 more people looking for jobs, and Capitalism is a freak without a leash. El Paso Gas took 2 torpedo?s and is listing 20 degrees. Be on the look out, for the company you work for, it will, or may have already taken a torpedo, and your company just may take a seat next to Enron and countless others on the bottom of the corporate ocean. Where will this leave you, sending 10 resumes a week for a year?

Flesh peddlers, this seems like the green acres, of high paying jobs at this time. Companies would rather pay 7k a month through an agency to get qualified IT guys.

Think about this, I know you have seen or heard the commercials about ? get your Cisco CCXX and MSCE at ITT?, or any name IT specialty school. These schools will get their money and yes these people who graduate will be unemployed or working for way less than what was projected. Don?t get me wrong, many will find jobs but I will leave it at that. There is a flood coming and the supply and demand equation applies. The profit motives without genuine servitude toward its society and its citizenry is truly dead.

You may have seen the adds at Dice and the like, ?WANTED CCIE for 3 - 6 month contract? The Engineering field went through this same mess in the 80?s, you know the 3-6 month contracts then, boom, unemployed for 6 months. Is this the future of the IT industry?

I see some future in IT, and that has to do with weakness in government, they need to have their systems revamped from A-Z. County by county across this nation, there is a need for people like all of us on this forum. Soon there will be a courthouse at every corner, just like stop and go?s, because of the ?no tolerance? of any human imperfections what so ever, which has the court rooms filled to the brim 24 ?7. Example, here in Houston, we were forced to drop the speed limit from 70 to 55. Houston Police department has written 75,000 tickets in a month. Can you say cha ching. I think I would like to work a company with the deepest pockets and have in house, all-inclusive, book cookers, which no outside entity can audit. And this would be any branch of government, from a large homeowners association to the Federal Government. Better yet, become a layer, that is if you have a big enough dorsal fin.

What is a test taker, and why is it frowned upon. Is it not true, one has to read and learn the book to pass the test. This is a measuring stick of knowledge, right?

How many CCNP?s are there and what is the forcast for the next 5 years, or will much of networking become automated and it will not matter

As for me, I agree with frank300zx to some degree, hot dogs, get your hotdogs here *S*
Cheesy
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing / Others judge us by what we have already done"
"A thought which does not result in action is nothing much, and an action which does not proceed from a thought is nothing at all"
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sean34
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2002, 03:36:14 PM »

Sea Dragon,

interesting read,

you have brought up some good concerns with the IT world...

I too have noticed all the contract positions that want you for a project and your out the door.  Im looking for a career here not some 6-month gig!

anyway, thanks for your insight...

peace

Sean34
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mcoates
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2002, 09:28:24 PM »

Dont get all disenchanted with the dot.bomb phenomenom.

You were happy to ride the wave and made far more money than realistically you should have...and now its tight out there...what goes around comes around.

We all knew that the crash would happen. I happen to have a Commerce degree so analysis of business environments made it so obvious of what was to come.

Take Amazon...millions of dollars invested (speculation) was pumped into the company, when it had barely cut a profit in 3+ years operation. In any other share market, this happens less than America's. Why? The fact is that there is simply too much cash floating about for "investment".  This causes a false market effect.

When things are good...everyone loves the sharemarket where promises of inflated riches beckon, but come the first signs of recession, out comes the money, plunging share prices and into the banks and property it goes.

The whole IT scene was built around a flimsy premise that the businesses were sustainable.

You only had to see companies with no profits worth half a billion dollars, lack of accounting standards, and no business plans. Bear in mind 3/4 of all businesses fail within 5 years of startup.

Another question, a programmer who lists his business for 250 million...do you really think he has skills and knowledge to manage it commercially? Probably not...yet you were happy to work in these companies and blindly ignore the realistic consequences.

Well good on you for earning the big bucks, and yes it is hard when youre out of work...but now youre in the second half of the business cycle...and it'll probably be longer than the first half...
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Michael Coates
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2002, 09:54:15 PM »

I truly fill sorry for those have to go through the time of studying to become the best they one can be, then met such needless hardships. Take comblues, my heart goes out to him and for those who live in California, where land cost millions, but the house only cost 50k I feel for them to, there is a wave of newbies coming. California is the Mecca of over night success and unfortunately, overnight poverty. One has to live 50 miles away from a city just to afford a slow sinking process, that should tell you much about the profit motive, just read Atlas Shrugs

 The contract labor stuff, needs to be addressed, or in time, the IT industry will need to have IT Unions to protect the work force. That will create problems too, Corporate America will just go to another country and hire cheaper techies a.k.a. WAN / OS /Application help desk. The evolution of industry is inevitable, and predictable, history does repeat itself. Welcome to the World Wide Web, and get your chopsticks out of my serial port.

 H1-Bs, I saw the displacement of the indigenous professional work force of our land in the 80?s, write your congressmen but do not expect an answer much less action. Start your own business, and pay the taxman before and after the company bellies up, and then pay the taxman again, 80% of new business fail. If you can?t beat them, join them. One thing for sure, I will not go down with out a fight, just like the rest of you, I will walk fearlessly into the night, with much coffee at my side not to mention the books, routers, switches and software that I possess. I am armed and ready for the unseen and the foggy future.
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing / Others judge us by what we have already done"
"A thought which does not result in action is nothing much, and an action which does not proceed from a thought is nothing at all"
"When the earth was young, and the Internet was but a gleam in some amphibian's eye"
Sea Dragon
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2002, 10:12:59 PM »

I say give private enterprise, the chance to climb or fall in absolute terms, but I disagree with an appointed (not elected) representative, manipulating free enterprise. Who knows, over time, there might have been 500 companies (Mega Bill Gate type companies) who would have come out of the illusionary stock market cloud, employing hundreds of thousands. Everything in this realm (IT) is in its infancy, maybe you are right Michael, and we needed a spanking.
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing / Others judge us by what we have already done"
"A thought which does not result in action is nothing much, and an action which does not proceed from a thought is nothing at all"
"When the earth was young, and the Internet was but a gleam in some amphibian's eye"
wirechild
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2002, 01:59:56 AM »

I would like to offer this to you my friend. A lot of us that are without work were around in the IT field long before the dot.coms came around. I can very well remember sitting in meeting with Execs and explaining what Microsoft is and what the Interent is and watching the weird looks as if I was crazy and then after it started booming and took of I sit in those same meeting trying to convince the execs why the dot.coms would be soon dot bombs and getting those same looks again. The look of disbelief! I am mostly out of a job do to a bunch of thiefs that stole from the company that I have worked at for 8 years in the sum of $4B dollars give or take a little.

I think problems with companies like Enron and my former employer, had as much to do with the problems in the IT community as did the bad investments into the dot.com's.
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