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netnewsnow
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« on: February 23, 2001, 12:37:53 AM »

I'm sorry but I have to voice my opinion. Some people seem to be passing their exam by cheating. Of course its not technically cheating since you pass the exam fair and square, but the whole point of the test is to make you a technical ressource for the product. I was wondering how could some people pass an mcse exam in just 2 weeks, my first thought was; they dont work, second, they already know the product in question, third, they've worked with simillar products for quite some time, but it does'nt seem to be like that.

I ask you this, if cheating is going against the rules, then how can we say we are not cheating when we take for exemple exam essentials, which most of us did'nt even pay, memorise the questions that are most probably gona be in the exam, go pass the exam one week after ee and pass, and be proud to say "I'M AN MCSE". What is the difference between this and someone handing you the exam before you pass it?

The truth is, I have never respected mcse's, because cheating was always a crack away, and most use that method. Now, the only way to truly know if someone is competent, is to test him on the spot.

For all those of you who have the title mcse, like the yeti's of this site, you are the true mcse's, the ones we can depend on for some answers, the ones who worked hard to find their anwers, and who can answer back and understand what they have said.

Imagine if becoming a doctor was the same, some guy out of nowhere, comes out after 2 months shouting "FINALLY, I'M A DOCTOR", would you trust him? Dont get me wrong, that guy could probably cure the flu, but when the real disease come, the real doctor needs to be there.

If you feel shocked about this post, thats good, because you totally understood that your a fraud downgrading what used to be regarded with respect.
If you took the time to read the "this material will not be in the exam" part of the book, then I respect you. If you read the book exam essentials 5.5 and passed the exam, then I have no respect for you.

The worst part is, some of these paper mcse can find well paying jobs, but the job is'nt challenging, because if it was, the he would be discovered and thrown out, or would simply abuse the innocence of his employer.

Imagine you have your own company, you need someone to help you in an nt network, your search for an mcse, one presents himself, 0 experience, but has mcse, ccna, a+ and net+, asking you for 70000$ a year, what would you tell him? Remember now, those of you who did hands on, read a book or went to a course, did practice tests, I have no problem with.

If I have offended some people wrongfully, I apologise. It was never my intend to discredit the hard workers of the technical field. I will anktiously await anyone's thought on the subject. If you have something civilised to say, do drop a note.
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Paisleyskye
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2001, 01:54:21 AM »

I think you just said it all!!  I couldn't agree with you more.
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Paisleyskye
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2001, 09:44:45 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by netnewsnow


The truth is, I have never respected mcse's, because cheating was always a crack away, and most use that method. Now, the only way to truly know if someone is competent, is to test him on the spot.



netnewsnow - I agree with the bulk of what you say.  And that is why I give technical interviews to prospective candidates that come into my IT department.

However, if you are going post comments targeting MCSE's that may utilize cracks for testing software, why did you request an email be sent to you for the EE crack? :confused:

http://www.examnotes.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10636

Anyhow, It took me 2 months to prepare for this exam by taking the 2-day MOC, setup a lab at home and play with Proxy, read Sybex Proxy 2 server guide and my company bought the Trancenders practice tests.  I don't see how anyone can study and pass this test in 2 weeks either, it was the most difficult exam for me.

With Best Intentions
« Last Edit: February 23, 2001, 03:44:18 PM by Spid » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2001, 03:20:14 PM »

I have found it best to not worry what the other guy is doing.  The cream rises to the top.  I consider myself to be a fairly smart and knowledgable NT guy, but even I have been weeded out during some tech interviews.  I have no fear that some idiot that isin't worth his MCSE is beating me out for any job.  Those guys will end up on an entry level help desk and will stay on that entry level help desk.  It does suck however if these guys are lowering the value of the MCSE all together though.
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2001, 08:59:22 PM »

I have come accross my fair share of paper mcse's in my previous jobs. But if you are true to yourself and know your stuff and have the mcse then you will succeed in that you know what you are doing.

Regards
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netnewsnow
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2001, 12:20:27 PM »

considering this:

However, if you are going post comments targeting MCSE's that may utilize cracks for testing software, why did you request an email be sent to you for the EE crack?  

I dont believe you've truly understood my point, what I meant was that people use those exams to pass the test, they dont study by books or anything else (labs included). I dont believe because someone is using transcenders to help him pass the he is cheating, since most of us would probably not have passed the exams without the help of these test. But here lies the problem, those test prepare you for the mcse test, and the point of this isnt to pass an exam, its to know the product.

I would go as far as saying that someone passing the exam without any practice test whatsoever would be someone I would consider more than good, a true expert, a professional who gets hired for hight risk assignement. Aldoe I do not believe that this is necessary, we should keep in mind that our primary focus is to be able to be competent in the particular sofware, not competent in passing exams. People who are good at passing exams falcify the readings, this includes people who study exam oriented only. I dont believe you should study henry ford's model T automobile at the same time you study for proxy, but be able to use the product in all its features, not just the ones in the exam.

I would never blame someone for using cracks for exams tests in any way, I would even encourage peaple to use exam tests before going to take the real one.

Spid, do you understand what I mean by this? This is'nt about  using cracks for testting software, but how people use those for an easy way out.

I cannot stand voiceless, as many companies dont screen out that well its candidates, and many test software mcse's do get the job, and the guy with mcse track nt4 does'nt, because he did have mcse track 2000, ccna, cna, a+, net+ behind his name, and some 20 year old did because instead of learning the software he was suppose to use, while the 22 year old took the time to go to school for a year, and take another to complete his mcse does'nt get it because the employer was "really impressed" by the yound man who did 4 times more in less time than the other guy.

Do not believe that there are no casualties with this. What about the countries where mcse testing was banned because of cheating, imagine those guys who had their mcse in one week, nt 4 and 2000, come to your country, apply for the same job as you, and get it, of course, they get fired one month after, but did you get that job?

I dont care if you use transcenders, testout, preptest, ee, or another thousand exam tests, as long has you have paid your dues, become proficient on the subject your certifying for, then, start thinking about the exam.

I would not mention anybody who his like this, I believe they already know or will be faced with reality. This, as been a way for me to voice my opinion on our efforts being ridiculled by people who say that "mcse exams are easy" when they basically reading the exam questions 3 times before taking the test... of course... like that... its easy.

I thank you spid for the help that you have given me, and because of that help, I have decided to postpone my test for a few weeks in order to fully assimilate the new material I have, because I will not take the easy way out.
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netnewsnow
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2001, 12:27:12 PM »

I would like to personnaly congratulate Paisleyskye for being a women and in the fiel of IT. If your a women, or know what I'm talking about, then you'll understand. (being a women and in IT was like a black person in the KKK, but I think its getting better now).

Paisleyskye, knowing a few women in the IT field, I understand it must'nt have been easy. Good job.
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2001, 07:00:19 PM »

Thanks for the clarification netnewsnow, I understand now.  Smiley

I apologize for any misunderstanding my post may have caused.

Good Luck to you in your studies.
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netnewsnow
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2001, 07:52:14 PM »

no prob Spid, its by communicating that we'll understand each other.
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2001, 09:35:35 PM »

Netnewsnow:

Thank you for your encouragement and empathy.

However, although there are times when it has been a struggle, I think I came into IT at a good time when the world was starting to accept women in this Industry.  More and more women are entering into this field every day.

I would imagine the women that were entering the field 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago deserve the real congratulations because I am sure that they faced alot more hurdles than I have. And they are the women who opened the doors for other women like myself.
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Paisleyskye
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