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Author Topic: Recruiters gone plum loco?  (Read 2674 times)
rore2246
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« on: December 13, 2000, 05:02:00 AM »

My two cents after dealing with many a recruiter over the past couple months.

1) 1 year experience at intern wages is still 1 year experience. The idea that your starting salary should be based so strongly on prior wages is ridiculous. System administration experience is just as valid if I was paid $30 an hour verses $5.75 for the same work/responsibilities.

2) If you want alphabet soup, you've got it. I'm adding MCP and A+ to my resume before January. I already know the material to a point where I take it for granted, having a piece of paper to say it doesn't make any functional difference to me. The point is, why screen resumes lacking certain certifications when the skills are required to back it up anyway? With my experience and other qualifications you can take for granted I can build a PC and install/troubleshoot windows workstations.

3) I just spent close to $20,000 for a Bachelors Degree. I have insurance, gas, utilities, food, rent, loans to pay, AND still need to manage to save a little money for emergencies. (If I'm lucky I can go to a movie ALONE once a month.)

The point? I'm a CCNA and BS Degree holder with a year experience for chrissakes. (And by the way I have been involved with networking as a hobby since the BBS days before the internet was big) To be put in a position where I pretty much have to take what I can get and scrape by is
mind-boggling considering I can build and administer an X (Pick a number) workstation LAN with internet access completely from scratch.

Please look at http://resumes.dice.com/rore2246  and give me some input on how much I'm worth. Cause right now it seems I'm not even worth most companies time. (I realize it's December and things are slow, but I need a job SOON!) And by the way, yes I am quite professional and communicate very well. (I'm just venting right now heh)

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B.S. in Telecommunications Management, CCNA, Network+
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Bobby Digital
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2000, 02:44:00 PM »

1) True

2) True

3) SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO true.

One thing that you have to realize is that recruiters, a large majority, have no technical sense whatsoever. Basically, they do not know what to REALLY look for in a potential employee. They are trained (yes trained) to use certifications as the main gauge in which they "determine" who is "qualified".

It is getting harder for them to judge a person's abilities now that people are collecting certifications like a kid collects baseball cards.

Good luck:-)
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Segurant
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2000, 03:35:00 PM »

Right on!  Recruiters only see you as money for their pockets.  They try to lowball you so they can get majority of the money.  I was in a contract that paid $16 per hour...not bad for helpdesk.  But they were charging the company $39 per hour and they would not give me a raise after one year of service.

not all recruiters are bad, but most are.


Segurant
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Segurant
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GalaxyGal
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2000, 05:01:00 PM »

Never sign on with a recruiter like that!  There are other reputable agents who will not prostitute you, because that is what it is!  They are making a huge profit of your hide.  I know it is hard try doing temp work, or tep to perm.  Once they know what you have and have seen it with their own eyes, they will try and keep you.

But as always network people, networking is the key.  Meet people other people's holiday parties!  A classmate went to his girlfriends company X-mas party she introduced him to the HR person at the party.  Out of polite conversation the recruiter asked what he was studying.  Two months down the line with only 6 months experience and 4 certs under his belt he was offered a 50K job with excellent benefits.  I should be so lucky.

Just give it time and yes network!!!


Ciao,
GalaxyGal

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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2000, 02:57:00 PM »

rore2246,
  looks like your jumping jobs too soon, that may be hurting you. Did you leave on bad terms? Was it contract work? If you have to pay the bills that bad what about a helpdesk job to pass the time away? Helpdesk is a great place to grab some certs and it's easy.
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kwftide
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2000, 05:35:00 PM »

Try working for a small reseller. They usually need people and you get a wide variety of experiences. Downside...they usually can't pay as much as the big boys.

But, man, you still have to pay dues, BS degree in Telecom or no. Sit back, relax, build your career over the next five years and the money will come. It just takes time.
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rore2246
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2000, 08:24:00 PM »

Bernie:
Well my prior job was as an intern at school, and since I've graduated they need to give that opportunity to somebody else. (Besides 5.75 doesn't really pay the bills.) Help desk is on one of my searches on monster and headhunter. =)

kwftide:
I'm searching everything between PC tech and Jr. Network Engineer, for any company. As long as I pay the bills and have a little left-over to save and enjoy I'll be happy.

I'm hoping that this is an end-of-year phenomenon because it's been very disillusioning to watch the rest of my class (most with no experience or certs) get jobs while I was studying for my CCNA, and now I'm struggling to even get a response from my job inquiries.

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B.S. in Telecommunications Management, CCNA, Network+
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Bernie
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2000, 05:25:00 PM »

 www.computerjobs.com  is cool
What about moving? You got anything holding you back?
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2000, 11:06:00 AM »

Hi there rore2246,

You sound eerily similar to this fellow named Techsavvy. I read his posts in the thread I started over on the "General Discussion" board. Is that you? You have the exact same credentials as he.

None the less, I assume you are one and the same. I took a look at your resume you have up at Dice. Very well written and concise, with a very impressive accumulated skill-set. Obviously, you have worked hard at setting and reaching very impressive goals. I applaud your efforts. I am very familiar with Devry since I live in the Southern California area as well. They seem to have a good reputation with local businesses because of the hands-on curriculum they provide to their students.

Now I can see why you don't like my thread over in general discussion board. You spent 20k for an education from a very good technical school, you worked hard and studied your butt off. You did not want to hear or read the type of information that I had to present, that is probably the last thing you wanted to hear. I truly hope that you obtain employment in the field, you should be rewarded for your efforts.

You are very right about tech recruiters. I don't know what type of professional background you possess, I have been dealing with these people for the better part of 10 years. They are absolutely some of the most clueless individuals you will ever have to deal with. Yes, they will make issue about the pay from your previous position. Why? That's what I was trying to convey to people in my posts about this industry. They're trying to depress wages. Using methods like how much did you make from your previous job is one of them.

Look at it this way. Say you made $10 an hour while working at school and gaining experience, the recruiter would then offer you maybe 15 or 16 an hour. But, since you made 5.75 an hour, the recruiter might only offer you 11 or 12. The pay a person can command should be based on experience and what their responsibilities were, not what their prior pay was. One of the first questions a recruiter will ask you is this, "how much were you making at your last job?". Am I correct? They're seeing right away how much they can grind you for.

I know you did not ask, but here are some pointers in dealing with companies in general:

AVOID:

- companies that require a salary history (they are basically telling you that they are cheap) You must think to yourself, what do these people want, to cut corners all the time, or to hire and retain good talent so that their organization prospers as a whole.

- companies that ask you to fill out an application when you arrive for an interview.

This is a devious means in which to obtain your social security number. They will then look up your earnings history (in case you lied), your credit history and possibly your medical history. Some companies will be honest and they will tell you that they intend to check these areas thoroughly.

To be honest with you I am very shocked, since you graduated 2 months ago, I thought you would have been snatched up already. Doesn't Devry provide job placement assistance for it's graduates?

Keep me abreast of your job searching efforts ok. Take care man.

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ugly kid
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2000, 02:47:00 AM »

I have read with much interest, the responses to this post. I too have had bad dealings with (mainly) headhunters that have called my house in response to my resume on monster, and all the others.

Here is my situation:
I got out of the Marines as a Infantry Sergeant. Before I left California, I interned WAGE-FREE at a local mom and pops computer store 30-40 hours, on top of my "daytime" job in the Corps. I moved to VABeach, spent 7 straight weeks undertaking all MCSE (plus Novell 560  admin).
I landed a job with Kelly Technical as a PC tech for over 500 PC's in a call center. I couldn't find a job or get any type of offer for a position and the one I was in was closing.
I interviewed for a level 2 help desk on telephony phone switches. That was a year and a half ago. Since then I have completed MCP for Workstation, Server, Server Enterprise, Net Ess, TCP/IP. I've completed CBT training for 3rd party MMTA Certified Convergence Technologies Technician for Basic Telecommunications, Basic Data Communications, LAN's and CTI Essentials.

I'm also certified for my current companies NT voice Mail, DOS Voice Mail, and almost all of their legacy telephone switches.

I put myself thru the local community college to get a better understanding of Cisco CCNA. I passed that exam because of endless reading, studying and tinkering on their routers.

And yet every headhunter that calls my house wants to know if I want to do level 1 help desk because most of my 2 years in this field are PC support.

And to tell you the truth, I'm rude with them. Why? Because my resume lists all my training and certs as my strong point, my objective simply states entry level in the IT/IS field. If they can't read and understand that, why the heck would I want them to look for a job for me???

Tomorrow, is always a better day. I have learned to "network". By calling on friends of friends (and old employers),  I have landed several interviews. I haven't decided which I'll take yet as I have 2 more interviews tomorrow. Most of these interviewers were fascinated that I would "abuse" myself to learn all this networking stuff.

Point is this: opportunities do come along, you just have to find them. Not everybody will randomly find a 4 leaf clover, and there are a lot of people looking for jobs, most of them for the one your about to look at.  
I believe that by staying focused and knowing where you want to go is going to get you there faster than somebody just stumbling on it.

An Earlier post mentioned that a guy went to his girlfriends Christmas party, and landed a job at 50k. If his girlfriend was a sloppy, inconsistent worker, do you think they would have offered him a job? I don't think so.

In closing, keep looking, finding the job is a job in itself. If you only look part of the time, then you'll always have a part-time-job!
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2001, 05:28:00 AM »

I also live in Virginia Beach and the true problem is our area has far too many skilled workers for the computer base we have. When in college I used to work at a wholesale club and many of the people has BS degrees in various fields and I even knew one who had a Masters. People who don't live in the area think you are crazy when you tell them how hard it is to get good paying work. Between being a right to work state ( no real Unions ) and the area being a military hub with numerous qualified military spouses looking for secondary work, the job market
is bleak! Programmers are in demand but the temp agencies really want degrees more than experience coders.
I wish you the best of luck
SteveH in Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote
Originally posted by ugly kid:
I moved to VABeach, spent 7 straight weeks undertaking all MCSE (plus Novell 560  admin).

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