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Flynmonkie
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« on: January 31, 2001, 12:34:00 AM »

Ok, I had something very interesting happen to me today. It is quite frustrating and I guess I wanted to share it. I went for an interview at a company that sells accounting software. I am highly skilled in the areas they need to teach/train clientele on their software (12 years accounting, logistics background and computer certifications). I interviewed initially with a woman, and then a man. The woman was wonderful. We felt we had a lot in common in many areas our pasts and our future and our capabilities. It was a very good interview. She wanted me to meet the CEO of the company right away.

When he walked in and sat down his opening line was

 ‘«£I thought you were a man‘«ō

(No joke) Well I was stunned! Then he proceeded to tell me that he thought this because of looking at my resume. Hmmmm.?? Well my character is to make excuses and try to see the bright side, so I did and ignored the comments. At that point he proceeded to ask me very stupid and trivial questions about my High school because he ‘«£knew‘«ō people there. In which at the same time said and I will quote him

‘«£ It is not like I am asking your age you know it would be illegal to do that‘«ō.

Well, I don‘«÷t know maybe it is just me but the date I graduated from High School pretty much says it all don‘«÷t ya think? I told him it did not matter to me and that I was 31 years old. He proceeded to tell me he did not care, and then at that point he finally got to the resume. Then he asked the difference between Shipping and Receiving and Logistics, I responded nothing it is the same concept, different name. The only thing he asked is to explain the ‘«£gaps‘«ō in employment. When I started to explain, he blew it off with never mind. Then at that point laid down the resume and asked if I had any questions for him. I proceeded to ask about the position available and what it entails and salary/ requirements and benefits. Needless to say, his answer was the same for every question. Referring me to the lady that I initially interviewed with. That he wasn‘«÷t really sure of the answers. And then excused himself.

I had this really gross feeling all the way home, making excuses all the time, but I am not sure what to think of this. I thought at first he just had poor communicative skill, or even that he might not have known answers and or how to deal with the interview. But that bad feeling just kept getting worse and I am convinced that there is something wrong.

 They are supposed to call when they have made their final decision but I wonder if I should just decline this position. Or am I overreacting? I am usually good at gut feelings and I am the farthest to even worry about sexism or ageism. I have always assumed that worrying or thinking like that will get you nowhere. But I have some pretty strong feelings on this.

I really feel that he just went through the process because he had to, but he wanted a man. Not to mention his over protectiveness about the age thing‘«™it just struck me as odd. Because it was pertaining to when I was in High School-clearly stated on my resume. He made it such a big issue?

It seems like I am asking for trouble‘«™. anyone else had this situation before?
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Pavlov
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2001, 02:08:00 AM »

Think back to the first interview and remind yourself that you were qualified enough and left enough of an impression to be referred to this nut in the first place  Smiley  Now, who actually is making the hiring decision?  The first lady or the nut?  My first technical job interview was similar.  The first interview was fabulous - we talked for almost 2 hours!  Then she had me meet with the CIO.  He was an idiot!  There's no nice way to say it.  He only noticed that I had never actually had a paying job doing what I was applying to do there.  He didn't take the time to find out that I was paid to be a secretary in a hospital where tech support is worthless so I was the one that did the application trouble-shooting for the dept. and eventually for the other secretaries in the hospital too.  

Ultimately, I got the job because the hiring decision was up to the first lady.  Not only did I get that job then, but I'm working for her now at another company and we're having a lot of fun from 8-7ish (you know how IT life can be - on call)  Smiley

I guess my point here is to stick with your gut feeling.  If this guy is going to have a direct impact on your success/failure on the job then go with your instinct and keep looking for the job that's right for you.  However, if this guy just happens to oversee the general dept. that you'll be working for then take the job and prove to him how wrong he was with demonstrated success and wow the socks off of him!

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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2001, 04:50:00 AM »

Shooiiieee! His interviewing techniques really stinkorama.  Please don't think that all men in IT are that foolish.

I agree with Pavlov.  If he will be a manager farther up the chain I'd take the job for the experience, but if he will be your direct supervisor I'd be a bit wary.  But I suspect this manager stinks to his male employees, well at least to those male employees that try to conduct themselves with a little class at work anyway.  


And unless he works around a bunch of other fools,  I bet many in the office can smell him.  If he didn't know the pay scale I doubt he's too close to direct management of the position.
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cryptogirl
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2001, 01:39:00 PM »

Don't you hate those kinds of feelings, I'm sure you thought about it all night and woke up feeling the same way this morning. Sounds as if you are a very qualified proffesonal and unless you need this job badly I would look else where. For one thing you are not old by any means, 31 come one. If this guy gave you that many bad vibes then I would listen to your instints, there are better opportunities around the corner for you I bet, remember you are interviewing this company as well, and if they didn't make the cut for you (because of this clown) then they don't get you!! Their loss!!
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2001, 03:39:00 AM »

Boy, that is terrible.  Maybe you don't need to work for that company.  I would feel uneasy too.  He must have felt that his masculinity was threatened by someone with so much knowledge.  Obviously he would not treat you fairly as far as pay and raises since you are not a man.  That is what it all comes down to.... we get treated different because it isa male dominated field.

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pupuxx
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2001, 12:57:00 PM »

idiots are found everywhere,
taske it easy, would you really like to work in a company where such idiots have resposibility??


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hershey
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2001, 03:53:00 PM »

I had a similar experience.  I was interviewing for a job as network engineer, presales, cisco type job, and when I sent my resume in I used my initials, no indication I was a woman.  The first telephone interview the guy was surprised to find himself talking to a woman, but as the company was long distance, they were doing all initial interviews that way.  It was great.  We talked for hours discussing equipment and he gave me the salary range and said no way would I be starting, that's what he said, starting at the bottom range.  It was great.  I felt great.  Another guy came into town to do the face interviews and when he walked into the room and looked at me I knew I didn't have a prayer from the expression on his face.  He wanted to hire a man and was there to interview me under protest because the first guy had put me on the list.  I don't think the first guy told him I was a woman.  My resume lists my name with initials for my first and middle names.  The next time I called I was told they had hired a man because they felt he could better relate to the people they were trying to sell to.
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cryptogirl
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2001, 07:27:00 PM »

Hershey, your story made me so mad and sick. That was just so discusting. I quit my last job in electrical because I found out my partner who had less time in the company and way less exp. was making 40% more then I. When I confronted the boss he said " Well he's a man and has a family to support" I wrote my letter of resignation that afternoon basically stating that I could not ethically work for a company that felt men where superior beings and woman were viewed as peasents and that the company would loose tremendsly from the loss of my expertise because of their barbarque views. And in fact they lost their 3 major accounts because I left!! Really left a bad taste in my mouth. Later a group of woman from the company contacted me and asked if I would join in on a class action suit based on discrimination, I declined and told the rest of the woman to just quit and that would put them out of business. I have no idea what ever happened with all of that but I'm glad of the decision I made.
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hershey
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2001, 08:24:00 PM »

cryptogirl, you did right to quit.  places like that there's no chance for advancement and they just don't take you seriously.  Discrimination cases are devilishly difficult to prove.  it takes a lot of time, money, and proof to get anywhere.  and in most cases it ends up being one of those he said, she said, kind of things.  sad, but true.  you can just hope they get it in the end and go out of business because they can't keep qualified, talented people.

and flynmonkie, even if they offered you the job, i would think twice about taking it, because even if the man who interviewed you isn't your direct supervisor or directly involved with you, you have to wonder about the corporate atmosphere that lets someone like that stay employed there.
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Flynmonkie
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2001, 01:51:00 AM »

 
Quote
Originally posted by hershey:

and flynmonkie, even if they offered you the job, i would think twice about taking it, because even if the man who interviewed you isn't your direct supervisor or directly involved with you, you have to wonder about the corporate atmosphere that lets someone like that stay employed there.

And he is THE president...good grief! I am not sure how I am going to handle this yet. I am at a loss. I plan to decline the position if offered they are supposed to call tomorrow...but the $$$ is very good. And the job itself sounds like so much fun...I love teaching people and helping them understand my hobby...I get such a kick out of people when the finally "get it" You know? ...I probably will not be offered the position if I am I will be quite surprised! I will tell you tomorrow what I hear. I am so glad to know that others have had this experience. Sometimes it is really hard for me to even accept that people think this way. I mean this is the year 2000; these people need to get over it! You know what really irritates me is that I am 5'9 I did allot of modeling when I was younger and I am usually playful and upbeat.... somehow that always gets mistaken for being a dumb bimbo. I have even tried to not talk and not as sociable and then I become a stuck up bitch...UUGHHH!
It doesn‘«÷t matter that I am a MENSA member or that I have two children I raise on my own. Or even the background or education, somehow that is all people seem to see. I have been out of the "conventional" working world so long I just don't know how to react to some of the things I am seeing. And this interview scares the hell out of me, you know? I guess I have always taken pride in the fact I just don't think like the rest of the world. And it seems like it is really getting bad out there. I just cannot believe that we have not graduated past that Neanderthal stage of not allowing people to succeed because of Race or age or sex or even
Because someone is jealous because you are happy <~~~~that I have witnessed in the office and usually it is other women! That just kills me to see it is bad enough that we are dealing in a mans world still but instead of sticking together I have never seen people be so vicious as women against women.... it just amazes me..OK, I am getting down off my soapbox now and I will tell you what happens...Thanks so much to everyone for helping me not feel like I was crazy!


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hershey
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2001, 05:17:00 AM »

Flynmonkie, if you really want the job, you are the only one that can make that decision.  On the one hand, like I said, corporate atmosphere, blah, blah, but if the job is so exactly what you want -- it's a real weighing type situation.

btw, I'm in Mensa, too, but I don't usually tell people because that REALLY freaks them out.   Cheesy

Mostly when I work I kind of stick to myself because I tend to be neither fish nor fowl. I'm not "one of the boys" but since the only other women are clerical I'm not "one of the girls" either.

But to be honest, even though I complain, as long as they leave me alone and let me play with computers and routers all day, I don't really care what anybody thinks or says.  

I have a great husband who understands and totally accepts me the way I am and three great kids.  

Never give up, never surrender.
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Flynmonkie
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2001, 05:57:00 AM »

 
Quote
Originally posted by hershey:
Flynmonkie, if you really want the job, you are the only one that can make that decision.  On the one hand, like I said, corporate atmosphere, blah, blah, but if the job is so exactly what you want -- it's a real weighing type situation.

btw, I'm in Mensa, too, but I don't usually tell people because that REALLY freaks them out.    Cheesy

Mostly when I work I kind of stick to myself because I tend to be neither fish nor fowl. I'm not "one of the boys" but since the only other women are clerical I'm not "one of the girls" either.

But to be honest, even though I complain, as long as they leave me alone and let me play with computers and routers all day, I don't really care what anybody thinks or says.  

I have a great husband who understands and totally accepts me the way I am and three great kids.  

Never give up, never surrender.

Thanks Hershey...sounds like you have the same support at home that I do! THANK GOODNESS!  Smiley
Yes I am not active in MENSA for about 10 years now. The program was not so strong where I came from...although I am old movie buff and they did have meetings for that interest but I just never had the time to get involved. I have a whole slew of Personality and IQ testing on another site I am in the process of moving including a link to MENSA...Funny you say that about the people freaking out about it...I know more people that have high IQs and realize that sometimes doesn‘«÷t go hand in hand with common sense.(including me)I think that makes us over think everything to the point of missing the simple stuff sometimes?  :confused: Don't you? It just frustrates me how in these United States education is a "privilege" not a "Right"  :rolleyes: I think of how many minds are out there to waste...you know...Oh well...I hate being on a soapbox...going back to my desk and hiding in my 'puter again  Smiley


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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2001, 03:17:00 PM »

Hi Ladies,

I absolutely feel your pain.  My telephone interviews are always wonderful but the actual interview (when they see me) is usually a different story.  Not only am I female but I am Black and I look like 15.  I spend the entire interview proving that everything on my resume is true- it feels more like an interrogation than an interview.
I also get a lot of age questions.  Some come right out and ask the illegal question and others say things like "What do you plan to do when you grow up?".

I think when I begin to look for my first IT job I will 'borrow' Hershey's idea and just leave my initials on half the resumes I send out. Just to see the statistics of the man assumption vs. definate female. When I took off Member of the Year for the National Society of Black Engineers suddenly I got so many interviews I did not know what to do.

But all of that does not matter.  Even if I got an offer from these biased companies I would most likely turn them down.  If the interviews are like that, imagine working for them every day.  No way!
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trinidee
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2001, 03:37:00 PM »

To Cryptogirl and Others:

Check out this link for salaries.
It is very detailed and also shows the average pay of women and men.
 http://www.mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/default.asp
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cryptogirl
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2001, 02:48:00 AM »

trinidee,
Thanks for the great link, hope everyone else checks it out. We really are poorly represented in the IT world!! The pay difference is pretty sad as well.
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