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echidna
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« on: January 12, 2001, 05:46:00 PM »

 http://www.microsoft.com/trainingandservices/default.asp?PageID=mcp&PageCall=retire

I, for one, am not too thrilled that Microsoft decided to can this certification track and not offer an upgrade. There was so much they could do with this track, and they just let it fester, and now decide to decertify all of us. I understand recertifying in this industry, but I don't think this particular track should be done away with.

Any thoughts?

Mark, MCP+SB, i-Net+
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2001, 08:55:00 PM »

Not really gone yet. You can still get MCP+SB without FrontPage98 exam.

According to Microsoft website, MCP+SB will be available untill June 30, 2002, which is more than a year away.
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echidna
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2001, 10:33:00 PM »

Good point. The track will be available until that time. However, anybody who is currently certified MCP+SB via the Front Page exam will be decertified SB status when that exam retires this June. I think that will affect most of the MCP+SB group.

Also, while you can still get MCP+SB status by taking the Interdev and Site Server exam, it seems Site Server is now a version back with the recent release of Commerce Server 2000.

Mark,
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2001, 11:51:03 AM »

I would assume that the FP2000 exam will replace FP98 when it retires and even if the +SB cert goes away in 2002, it seems like a good cert to pursue, if this is your field.

There aren't that many certs in this area (maybe CIW), but your web sites are your portfolio and carry more weight than any piece of paper possibly could.

As an aside, just from playing with with FP2000 and remembering FP98, I would never go back to FP98!  It simply blows as a design tool and site management was impossible.  

Personally, I am looking for a Dreamweaver or Macromedia cert!
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cboyles
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2001, 05:59:14 PM »

That Microsoft doesnt place more Value in its web Certs. Seriously, Dont you think they could whip up a cert that would incorporate things like SQL DB Design, FP 2K, Site Server Comm Edition, InterDev, VBScript, ASP, and so on and So on? Man that would be Sweet!! BTW the only place that I have seen that has Macromedia certs is BrainBench. Macromedia wont even certify you. Hrumph
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2001, 03:39:20 AM »

Keep it in perspective campers.  Even when this cert does go south, the concepts and tools it tries to teach you are invaluable.

I have a colleague who is an ace web coder, but seems completely oblvious to some of the tools and structures out there for use (esp. as far as management and planning goes).

If you dont force yourself to do study like this, you really are selling your skills short.  Just because it is being retired, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Knowledge is power, not paper.
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cboyles
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2001, 11:56:53 AM »

I totally agree with you, you hit the nail on the head.
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2001, 08:50:51 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by cboyles
That Microsoft doesnt place more Value in its web Certs. Seriously, Dont you think they could whip up a cert that would incorporate things like SQL DB Design, FP 2K, Site Server Comm Edition, InterDev, VBScript, ASP, and so on and So on? Man that would be Sweet!!


I think you need to look at the big picture on this one.  First of all this has always been the easiest certification to obtain (2 tests -- come on), yet there are only 1,271 individuals with the cert (Feb 01, MCP Mag).

Microsoft DOES place value on Web Certs.  I think they are killing this one simply because the MCSD certification will be a web certification.  There is this thing on the horizon called .net that is all about web development.  VS.net is still in Beta 1 but all I hear about is ASP.net and XML.net and VB.net...  As a matter of fact the current uproar is that they made everything .net and took away the ability to make client apps.

Watch the MCSD, it is going to be a lot different and it will be all about design for the web!  They will probably have it defined by 2002 when this baby dies...

Smiley

P.S.  Microsoft just announced that they would include the old VB Forms in the new version -- but only for backward compatibility!
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echidna
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2001, 09:13:39 AM »

Surprised to see I started such a thread Smiley

Just to clarify, I wanted to say I have no problems with MS changing (or even adding) requirements. That's a very common thing. But I don't like how they just ripped this track away entirely. I did just read a rumor that there may be a new web cert focusing on XML and Biztalk soon. This would be nice, but I still don't see why the old MCP+SB couldn't have been "upgraded" into this new track.

As for MCSD encompassing web technologies, I think that's half accurate. The .Net way is for classes to be built in VB.net or C#, then "glued" to the presentation with ASP.net. It's elegant, it's snazzy, but I think there are two major problems.

For one, many sites simply don't need that power. ASP on its own was nice for being scalable. Obviously, if you wanted to get tricky with it, you did so at your own risk, and the distinct possibility of turning your code into spaghetti. But with the old MCP+SB tools, you could whip up a site quickly and easily with no compiled programming experience.

And two, many people simply don't have that sort of control on the hosting environment. I've seen corporate web sites fall into this - they never counted on needing components and so the hosts throw a fit when you tell them "Oh yeah, go ahead and register this on your server - trust me."

I think the MCSD will definitely have more web focus soon but it will still be entirely on the backend. I doubt there will be a new test to ask about general front-end web technologies - like whether one should use VBScript or JavaScript, in what cases a gif is preferable to a jpeg, what technologies are encompassed in DHTML, and what happens during an HTTP request. I think this is where MS is dropping the ball. But I am still holding out hope for the rumored new track. Maybe it can also address some of the weaknesses of the old MCP+SB as well.
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