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sketan
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« on: March 16, 2005, 06:43:22 PM »

Hi,

Currently i'm working on my CISSP certification. I've got the approval from my company to attend the training course. I would appreciate if you can recommend the best Training center or the Boot camps in and around NY,NJ.

Any thoughts/experience with ISC2 recommended Boot camp "The Training Camp" in PA?

Thanks in advance for your responses
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pixhead
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2005, 05:27:00 PM »

HI, I'm scheduled to go to the weeklong bootcamp in Bushkill PA (that's in the poconos in a resort) 4/18-24
 
too bad I won't enjoy it since I heard that it's 8-8 M-F, after dinner, more review, Sat is review, then Sun, you take the Exam right on site.

The total cost is about $4,500, which includes the logding and meal, and exam.
My company is sponsoring my costs.
You can find out from this training from the ISC2 website.

Originally I was deciding which-- NYC or BUSHKILL, I decided on Bush because NYC there's too much distraction.
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freak
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2005, 06:04:17 PM »

wow, with a schedule like that, you'd better show up with an already impressive core of related skillsets and knowledge. Enjoy the training Smiley
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sketan
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2005, 07:03:39 PM »

Thanks Pixhead and goodluck on your training camp.

Pls. let me know your experience and do you find it worth?

thanks
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eric888
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2005, 07:43:11 PM »

How is that training coming along?  Smiley  I'm sure you haven't checked email or this site this week with that hectic schedule.

There's a one-week course coming up not too far from where I live and the cost will be about $2k (no lodging, meals or exam voucher).  I don't really have much of a security or audit background, so I'm wondering if this will be a waste at my current skillset level.  Maybe I should just get a Shon Harris book and save $1,950 until I feel more comfortable with the subject.  I plan on taking the Security+ exam in the not too distant future.

Any suggestions?
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freak
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 10:49:45 AM »

I would most definitely not attend that training if I were you. 2 reasons.

1. If you are considering taking the sec+, then you do not have the background for the CISSP. The book you mentioned is good. Give it a go before you spend money on training.

2. The CISSP in one week? That doesn't seem enough time to me to be serious...
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eric888
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2005, 08:47:40 PM »

Thank you freak for the honest reply. I'm nost definitely not at your level, so if that's your recommendation, I'll hold off for a while.  I can only guess the training is some sort of "refresher" course for security professionals who already have a ton of experience.  Either that or they plan on reading a Shon Harris book outloud very fast.

I'll save the $2k for my mortgage Smiley

Best of luck to you in your classes pixhead and sketan
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em_ar_ducks
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2005, 01:15:27 AM »

First, I was just notified that I passed the CISSP exam I sat for on April 16th. Don't congratulate me yet, because I still have to get an endorsement letter signed and submit my resume/cv for the rest of the process.

Second, about training, if you haven't been studying the material for at least 6-8 weeks for several hours a day regardless of your skills, don't sit for the test. A training class would only be necessary if you just don't understand some critical items in specific domains.

Third, my formula was as follows: get the (ISC)2 official text, read the Shon Harris book as well. Use the following web site and its practice tests:

http://www.cccure.org/

If you are still not averaging 80% or better on practice tests, then consider a course. which is what I did, I took a course specifically to address items that I couldn't grasp well from research.

Another way to approch it is to take a course and then study for a few weeks. I took a week off from work and really concentrated prior to taking the exam.

My point is that you should be well prepared before attending any course, the (ISC)2 courses are probably the most complete and demanding. The course I took was not an (ISC)2, but it did help me on the points I was missing.
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cdupuis
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2005, 10:13:44 PM »

Good day Freak and all,

First of all I would like to thank em_ar_ducks for the nice comments about my cccure.org web site.  

It seems to be a perception out there that ISC2 has the best training that one can offer.  This is most certainly NOT the case.

I have peruse, develop, or taught the CISSP package from the Following companies:  SANS, Logical Security, ISC2, and Intense School to name a few.  I am very familiar with all of the above curriculums, personnally I would rate the ISC2 package as last in this list.  

The ISC2 package still provide students with material the way it was done 10 years ago.  You have the default Power Point print out of 3 slides per page with lines beside them to take note.  There is no text to help the student in their review effort after the class, there is no value added like all of the other companies mentioned above.  If I was to take a boot camp, ISC2 would be the last one on my short list.  Any of the other one would come before them.

Finally, I would like to do a shameless plug.  I hope you will pardon me but I think that it might interest quite a few out there.  I have talked to Shon Harris and I was able to get a real good deal on her CBT package for the CISSP.  I can offer it for $300 while amazon.com sells it at $900 for a copy.  Send me an email at cdupuis@cccure.org if interested.

Those copies I am selling are not bootlegged copies, they are original copies that I have bought from Shon Harris as I am now a registered reseller for her CBT.  The reason I can offer them at that price is simply because I am selling them with a very minimal profit margin instead of selling them with 300% to 400% markup like others do.

See detailed description at:
http://www.cccure.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=527  

Best regards to all and good luck with your certs

Clement
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em_ar_ducks
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2005, 12:13:37 AM »

Clement,

First I want to tell you thanks for all of the information your site provides, I was referred to it in several of the books, Shon Harris', as well as others. What a wealth of information!

Just to follow up, I absolutely made an assumption that the (ISC)2 training would be more complete than any other comparable course. (I have no experience with the course myself so I will take your word for it). My feeling is that a typical 40 hour course taught 8-5 M-F, will pretty much make your head hurt. Which is why I always recommend that you be fully familiar with most of the material prior to taking a class like that, you definitely need to be ready to ask questions at the appropriate time to fully grasp certain concepts.

The course I took was not endorsed by (ISC)2, it was a 40 hour course spread over a 3 week period, 4 hours tue/thurs, and 1 all day session on a saturday. This schedule allowed time to digest the information and read ahead for the next class. We also had practice quizzes and a full-on 225 question practice exam to use after the class completed. (the class cost $2500, and my employer paid for it, which is why I did it)

I took the class after doing about 6 weeks of self study using the (ISC)2 text. Which I found to be a reasonable reference, and like all references, requires supplemental material occasionally.

Anyway, as a final note, I have seen some of the Shon Harris video series, and if I were totally on my own I would consider them a very good deal at $300. Add in about $200 more to buy the Shon Harris All-in-one, the (ISC)2 text, and a few others, and most people who put the effort in to concentrate and study should pass the exam.

The real investment in this or any cert. is the individuals time. I like well structured training for the face to face interaction with experts/peers.

I can attibute my success to several things:

1. 20+ years of experience with almost 6 of the 10 domains.

2. Solid study habits for a total of 10 weeks.

3. Use of the "cccure" website

4. Being well rested the day of the exam.
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cdupuis
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2005, 01:08:31 AM »

You are totally right,

If one does sit down and spend enough time using the proper resources they will have success.

I am not trying to discredit ISC2 but they seem to be challenge to come up with a better course package.  I was co-teaching this week with someone who has taught for ISC2 for 4 years and he confirmed what I was saying in the message above.  A clear indication of this is the fact that ISC2 have started using material form Shon Harris for what they call their Gold Series instead of using their own.  Shon has developed her own package and she has developed the Intense School package as well.  She is really the CISSP lady right now.

I think the classroom training is good for people who really wish to go deeper within the domains or did not succeed very well on their own.  One aspect that you also get is the networking, if you have an employer that has a training budget I would say GO FOR IT.  If you pay from your own pocket it could be prohibitive.

You short list of resource resemble what I usually recommend.

Take care

Clement
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pixhead
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2005, 12:27:51 PM »

Hi, I just took the one week ICS2 sponsored bootcamp. Here's my conclusion:

1) too much material dumped at you to the point your brain simply can't absorb any more material. M-F classes, Sat full day review, Sun, the exam.
I wished I had a week after the class to take the exam. While everything still fresh in your head, most material did not sink into my long term memory, and especially with cryptography... terms were confused and mixed up.....

2) Since the cissp is so wide in scope, the course kind of directed us to focus on what's to be covered on the exam... for example, the orange book, only pointed us certain highlights to memorize, and it was true!

3) the review guide with the powerpoint slide presentation provided lots of points to concentrate on to the point that every single word on it counts. It's like trying to memorize the entire book!

4) the instructor was great! I think he gave us and explained above the guide, and drilled us on some concepts which did appear on the exam. Everysingle points he drilled us which did not appear on the guide was on the exam! So my just relying on books will not help.

5) here's how I did it:

a) Study the ISC2 guide, take notes or summarize the entire book first before you go the bootcamp.

2) during the bootcamp, take again notes or summarize the ISC2 review guide after each class. This is one way to sink into your brain.

3) do not waste too much time on the sample questions or CCCure.. may be helpful, but lots of questions were outdated. Concentrate on the materials given in class.

4) pay special attention to the instructor's main points.. My instructor is Dennis Lee, he really knows his stuff, and explains the concepts in plain english. ex. in cryptography, Kerberos, Dig signature, hash... PKI, the difficult concepts which I really had a hard time comprehending from books, but he white-boarded it step by step (which is much better than just a slide with all the steps).
Also, the important concepts definitions, he simply dictated to us rather than: here's a slide in your face... by doing this, it made us learn.... I said, learn right in class, not after class when you're doing it on your own review.... this way, lots of time were saved...


..... so, I took the test yesterday, I'm all burned out, but will continue studying if I failed (waiting agonizingly for the results now)
....
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pixhead
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2005, 01:39:47 PM »

I must say that the bootcamp did help me tremendously. But if you haven't done any studying prior to attending the camp, you'd be wasting your money...

The way I passed it was that I read the official guide from ISC2, summarized the book by writing my own notes.... which turned out to be close to 200 pages... went to the camp where they concentrated on what's important and what you can forget about..., then summarized again the materials given to me in class..
(I also used the Harris and Kurtz as references.... but at camp there were topics that was not covered by these books)

I have studied for about 2 months prior to the camp. Then suffer for a whole week at the camp, then took the test on Sunday.

The passing rate at the class were quite high. A few failed, but that's because they went out for beer every other night...

I've asked a few other test candidates prior to the exam who did not attend this camp, but they did attend other camps or training classess.... So conclusion, you'd have a much better chance of passing the CISSP if you attended some kind of training.... a good training that is....
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sketan
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2005, 12:54:47 PM »

Hi Pixhead,

Thanks for your insights about the CISSP boot camp.. Originally o was suppose to take the boot camp in May but got rescheduled due to some office emergencies etc. Amyways, now i'm scheduled to take the boot camp in the month of September(Same vebdor "The traininf camp in PA" ) and had couple of questions to ask you about your experience at Training camp. I would appreciate if you can send me your contact info to sketanus at gmail dot com or let me know your e-mail address and i'll reach out to you.

Thanks in advance I'll appreciate your guidance.
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freak
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2005, 02:31:26 PM »

I run a security-related website, and I link to Clement's site all the time. It is a great asset to the infosec community on the web, whether you are studying for the CISSP or not. It is recommended daily reading.

And if you are indeed studying for the CISSP, you'd be crazy not to use all the features on that site.

I have had the pleasure of dealing w/ Clement from time to time and he has always been incredibly helpful and generous with both his time and his knowledge.

http://www.cccure.org : the only thing I don't like about that site is that it is not mine Smiley

Thanks Clement for all your hard work. it is very much appreciated, even if we don't always take the time to tell you!
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Freak, MA, M.Ed., Net+,I-Net+, Security+, CEH, CEI, CCA, CCNA, MCP+I, MCSA, MCSE NT, MCSE 2K, MCT

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InfoSecWeb.com
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