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Author Topic: Intel blinks, admits X86-64 in the works  (Read 1094 times)
azimuth40
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« on: December 24, 2003, 05:18:19 PM »

Well it looks like AMD has really got Intels attention with its Athlon 64 sales figures.  Intel has started to grovel just a bit and admit that there might be a backwards compatible market and not just itanium or nothing.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/tech.asp?v=12/24
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DaDnDe
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2003, 04:20:14 AM »

hmmm, is there a way to look at the article you mentioned?
i clicked on it and got an article about Yahoo and off shore spending.

i looked for an archives button and didnt see it. and after cruzing their site a bit, i dont see the option...

i suppose you didnt save the article eh?...

well... i guess ill keep an eye out for the topic...
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azimuth40
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2003, 11:09:37 AM »

double hmmmm.  That's active server pages for you. Either they reindexed it or they lock it.  I notice the article that appears is for tomorrows issue.  Searching the archive does bring up the first paragraph but you have to subscribe to read it bummer.
Quote

 Article: 1   Section: Internet & Technology   Date: 12/24/2003  
 
 
Title: "Here's A Switch: Intel May Be Ready To Copy Rival AMD"  
 
Intel Corp. appears ready to backtrack - perhaps swayed by success its smaller archrival Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is having with a product. The world's largest chipmaker is quietly designing a 64-bit chip for PCs based on x86 architecture, s...


Ahhh I see damage control in progress, someone did not like the leak.  Yahoo has a mirror of it here

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1471&ncid=1471&e=4&u=/ibd/20031224/bs_ibd_ibd/20031224tech

The inquirer who broke this secret a few monts back has this story about a retraction.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13330

Very interesting, maybe the bit about not coming on line until 2005 may have made them rethink it.  With pentium extremes selling at almost $1000 intel has to do something soon.
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DaDnDe
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2003, 05:51:20 PM »

ty for the link. it was a very interesting article. it is kind of funny thou, in how people think of computers...some quotes from the article...

 "These 64-bit chips coming out for PCs can grab data in 64-bit chunks vs. the 32-bit chips that most of today's PCs use. Basically, 64-bit chips are twice as powerful as the 32-bit ones"

hmmm does that mean twice the capacity or twice the speed??

 "Intel spokesman Robert Manetta says the Santa Clara, Calif.-based chipmaker has a working prototype of a 64-bit x86 design that it could bring to market "when customers request it.""

translated, that means "we have yet to figure out how to make a 64 bit chip that will run the plentiful 32 bit applications AND be ready to run the not yet available 64 bit application."

"An Intel move to roll out a 64-bit x86 would acknowledge that AMD took the right path, Whittington says."

i am a former intel employee and i can say for sure that they will never admit such a thing. they will simply say that there was no market for a 64 bit desktop chip. (and lets face it, they are right)

but i can't blame what AMD is doing. the complexity of today's computers requires real world testing to eliminate the problems associated with new product rollout.

Intel will not because they can not perfect a product in the lab. it must be put on the market where many more combinations of test environments can be utilized to gather data to perfect the chip. I think they know that and are willing to let AMD do the experimentation and therefore be the brunt of customer dis-satisfaction when the new product doesnt perform as expected.

although, so far it seems, AMD's opteron has done unexpectedly well. although, i think it needs more testing with 64 bit programs first.
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azimuth40
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2003, 07:49:27 PM »

I understand what you are saying. I spent 12 years in large system processor design mainly memory and I/O subsystems. I then went off into software development. I also know about the little war between the two.

I was one of several engineers being courted to use the 8086 1979-80 when it was introduced.  The plant that I worked for demanded a second source just like IBM did.  Zilog was the bad guy in Intel's eyes then so AMD got the offer. The competition has never stopped since.

Considering that a couple of super computers have committed to the opteron I don't expect to see too many bugs. The stretches are really in the I/O sections and sucking the memory controller inside. Bumping up accumulator and register size is not that difficult from a logic standpoint. The 32 bit functions have been grilled by many already.  AMD more or less went evolutionary rather that revolutionary like Intel did with Itanium.
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DaDnDe
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2003, 08:22:46 PM »

i think most people dont realize how much we owe AMD.

they are the reason for the under $1000 (yes under $1000) computer. if not for them, we would still be paying $2000 for old technology and $3500 for the new stuff.

as always they are forcing Intel to accelerate their processor map.

when i was at intel, twice they cut off almost a year off their products intro map because of unexpected moves by AMD.

you see, intel knows what it will be doing 5 years in advance. that is what their product map is. a 5 year schedule for new(to the public) technology roll outs.

granted, the 5 year plateau is fuzzy and will be adjusted. it involves technology that usually isn't available but theoretically possible.

but the 2 year and under plateau involves technology that is already in the manufacturing(or most likely completed) stages.

intel had a really bad (greedy??) habit of spoon feeding technology to the masses in an effort to maximize profits.

iow, processors dont really get manufactured in 33mhz increments (eg  200, 233, 266 etc...)they are just released that way. this creates several price plateaus instead of a few.

but that is why intel is rich and most other chip plants are not. intel is in the business of introducing technology, not providing it. they leave that to other companies.

that is why they have a cow when someone    else starts doing it. it isnt because they dont have the technology, it is usually because they failed to recognize the threat and didnt advance their products map soon enough.
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