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"Bring Em On!"
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« on: October 02, 2003, 05:31:34 PM »

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Papiya
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2003, 05:36:19 PM »

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Originally posted by "Bring Em On!"
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Average is up to 3-6 per week now, isn't it?
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Tennman
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2003, 07:40:31 PM »

They got a lot of problems over there.
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Tech Ranger
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2003, 03:45:58 AM »

It would be wonderful if the media spent even half the time reporting on northern Iraq or even southern Iraq as it spends reporting on the unfortunate events ocurring between Baghdad and Tikrit.
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Joe from Brooklyn
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2003, 06:54:57 AM »

'87 dollars a minute for every minute since Christ was born', and thats just the latest (and certainly not the last) hit.

Meanwhile, your 'little buddy' Israel tells you to go suck a lemon because its not going to stop its aggression for one second no matter how much it costs America.

How long do you think it would take the middle east to settle down if Israel were to just dummy up, get back in its own yard, and start behaving?

How much help do you expect to get from the U.N. while Israel is telling it to go screw itself?
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2003, 06:56:51 AM »

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Originally posted by Papiya
Average is up to 3-6 per week now, isn't it?


As unfortunate as it is, that rate is still safer than L.A. county between rush hour accidents and gangs.  As TR pointed out where is the news on what is going right in the rest of Iraq. That is not news I guess.
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Papiya
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2003, 08:40:08 AM »

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Originally posted by azimuth40
That is not news I guess.


"News" is short for "bad news". No one is interested in hearing about things that go well. No drama in it.
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Tech Ranger
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2003, 09:18:25 AM »

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Meanwhile, your 'little buddy' Israel tells you to go suck a lemon because its not going to stop its aggression for one second no matter how much it costs America.

That is exactly the opposite of what is actually happening.  Israel is the only nation in the entire world for which the "Thou shall not defend thyself" rule has been established by the international community.  There is not a single country that would not defend itself with absolute force were it to suffer even a fraction of the terrorist attacks that Israel has suffered.  The US is responsible for the Roadmap.  The map cannot work because there are groups comitted to the notion that there must not be peace.  Even if the Palestinian government tries to go ahead with agreements, Hamas et. al make it impossible.  Moreover, the Palestinians own PMs have one and a half hands tied behind their historic backs since the "President" Arafat is playing both sides of the fence.  Israel's restraint is due in part to US influence, but also to its own belief system.
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2003, 09:26:09 AM »

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Originally posted by Tech Ranger
That is exactly the opposite of what is actually happening.  Israel is the only nation in the entire world for which the "Thou shall not defend thyself" rule has been established by the international community.  There is not a single country that would not defend itself with absolute force were it to suffer even a fraction of the terrorist attacks that Israel has suffered.  The US is responsible for the Roadmap.  The map cannot work because there are groups comitted to the notion that there must not be peace.  Even if the Palestinian government tries to go ahead with agreements, Hamas et. al make it impossible.  Moreover, the Palestinians own PMs have one and a half hands tied behind their historic backs since the "President" Arafat is playing both sides of the fence.  Israel's restraint is due in part to US influence, but also to its own belief system.


What you say is partly true but one-sided. There are many Israelis that do not wish for peace either. Their fondest wish is to kill all the Palestinians and take over all of their land. Arafat is playing a double game, but to even think that a man like Sharon wishes to have peace with his enemies is ludicrous. His record is clear. Both of them need to go. No one is denying that Israel should defend itself, but it needs to target those genuinely guilty and not give in to terrorism itself. When they attack hotels where "suspected" terrorists are hiding out, they are guilty of the same crime as the suicide bombers . . . namely terrorizing the innocent. Both leaders need to go before this impasse will be solved. And the people on both sides learn to love their children more than they hate each other.

I won't hold my breath.
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2003, 09:45:30 AM »

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Originally posted by Papiya
What you say is partly true but one-sided. There are many Israelis that do not wish for peace either. Their fondest wish is to kill all the Palestinians and take over all of their land. Arafat is playing a double game, but to even think that a man like Sharon wishes to have peace with his enemies is ludicrous. His record is clear. Both of them need to go. No one is denying that Israel should defend itself, but it needs to target those genuinely guilty and not give in to terrorism itself. When they attack hotels where "suspected" terrorists are hiding out, they are guilty of the same crime as the suicide bombers . . . namely terrorizing the innocent. Both leaders need to go before this impasse will be solved. And the people on both sides learn to love their children more than they hate each other.

I won't hold my breath.

Based on your thesis, when Israel experimented with a liliberal peacenik, Barak, paradise should have broken out.  Sometimes it takes a strong man to make peace.
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2003, 09:53:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Tech Ranger
Based on your thesis, when Israel experimented with a liliberal peacenik, Barak, paradise should have broken out.  Sometimes it takes a strong man to make peace.


No, peace can only occur when *both* sides want it. If your thesis were any better than mine, a "strong" man would have made peace. Instead things have steadily gotten worse. Every act of violence just escalates the problem by making more hardliners on both sides.

As I said, I won't hold my breath on this one.
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mindmesh
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2003, 09:53:46 AM »

I stick with my pervious statement of bombing them both to hell.  Then Bush can go on camera with a little drool on his chin, his tie unkempt and say " Osama, You wanna play crazy, lets get crazy!!".  

I think that might work.

As far as the US backing Isreal. I think Bush would prefer to not have to be envolved. I think the UN should try and broker the deal but they're as biased as people say we are. Just against Isreal. It's funny how so many EU countries or even the Canadians are so quick to sell out Isreal but ignore the palestinians actions. If the US stopped backing Isreal they would have no Ally.
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2003, 09:56:35 AM »

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Originally posted by mindmesh
I stick with my pervious statement of bombing them both to hell.  Then Bush can go on camera with a little drool on his chin, his tie unkempt and say " Osama, You wanna play crazy, lets get crazy!!".  

I think that might work.

As far as the US backing Isreal. I think Bush would prefer to not have to be envolved. I think the UN should try and broker the deal but they're as biased as people say we are. Just against Isreal. It's funny how so many EU countries or even the Canadians are so quick to sell out Isreal but ignore the palestinians actions. If the US stopped backing Isreal they would have no Ally.


I agree. Bush could probably make a good case for attacking any semi-Arab country to the American people. And its true that the Eurpoeans are as biased against the Israelis and the Americans are against the Palestinians.
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Tech Ranger
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2003, 10:00:09 AM »

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Originally posted by Papiya
I agree. Bush could probably make a good case for attacking any semi-Arab country to the American people. And its true that the Eurpoeans are as biased against the Israelis and the Americans are against the Palestinians.

We are not against the Palestinians.  We are against terrorism.  We are the nation that put forward the roadmap for peace.  The vast majority of Americans, including myself, favor a two-state solution.
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2003, 10:07:24 AM »

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Originally posted by Tech Ranger
We are not against the Palestinians.  We are against terrorism.  We are the nation that put forward the roadmap for peace.  The vast majority of Americans, including myself, favor a two-state solution.


Yeah, that would be the best, but like I said above, *they* have to be ready for it, not you. Until that time comes, no matter how willing one side is, there will be no peace. Problem is the terrosists on both sides I think are too popular with the public . . . if Arafat *really* went after Hamas, they would get rid of him. If Sharon didn't act with a great deal of ruthlessness, even if it means killing the innocent, each time an attack occured, then he would lose support. So its a no win situation right now.
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