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Papiya
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« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2003, 05:12:29 PM »

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Originally posted by jimbo2002
As for North Korea, its an economic basket case and will fall apart itself.


This is exactly what I meant! Iraq? A TERRIBLE URGENT THREAT TO ALL OF HUMANITY!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!

North korea? An economic basket case. Let me remind you, though, that NK's only real industry is Nuclear Weapons. If they are in economic peril, why not sell them to the highest bidder? Basket case indeed. I wonder if bin Laden (remember him?) is in contact with any of their leaders yet?
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mindmesh
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2003, 05:21:58 PM »

I didn't forget about Bush. Believe me when it comes to voting he won't be forgotten. But the thing many forget is that Bush doesn't have the power to declare war.

As for democracy, the Iraqi's will draw up their own form. Everything takes time and as for forcing it on them, I'm shaky with that term. When we were young and needed help, the French came to our rescue. We should have done the same for Iraq but the problem is everytime we "help" we get attacked later by the people we trained. So this time we did it for them. We're hated now. No one wins.

North Korea, on the other hand should have been dealt with. The only problem is how do you deal with North Korea without getting into WWIII? China doesn't want us to attack NK, who shares their border, and shares communism. Also, if we attacked NK, SK would be their first target.

 As for the media, I hear more about suffering then about anything else.
Things are horrible for them now. I understand that. Nothing comes easy and although I'm sorry for being supportive of the war, I really believe in the long run they are better off. God forbid Uday or Qusay became rulers. Things are though for them but you're talking about a tough people. They'll survive and thrive, but it won't be easy.
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jimbo2002
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2003, 05:25:35 PM »

I think that in order to draw a parallel with iraq, to support your argument you are overstating the power of N. korea, Its probably a paper tiger. I dont lose any sleep at night worrying about it. As for bin laden, the word on the street is that he is working in a chip-shop in watford england and unlikely to be buyimg nukes, but seriously, even the north koreans, bless em, would be unlikely to run that risk, that regime needs dollars to survive, and where do they come from.
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Papiya
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2003, 05:29:35 PM »

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Originally posted by mindmesh
I didn't forget about Bush. Believe me when it comes to voting he won't be forgotten. But the thing many forget is that Bush doesn't have the power to declare war.

As for democracy, the Iraqi's will draw up their own form. Everything takes time and as for forcing it on them, I'm shaky with that term. When we were young and needed help, the French came to our rescue. We should have done the same for Iraq but the problem is everytime we "help" we get attacked later by the people we trained. So this time we did it for them. We're hated now. No one wins.

North Korea, on the other hand should have been dealt with. The only problem is how do you deal with North Korea without getting into WWIII? China doesn't want us to attack NK, who shares their border, and shares communism. Also, if we attacked NK, SK would be their first target.

 As for the media, I hear more about suffering then about anything else.
Things are horrible for them now. I understand that. Nothing comes easy and although I'm sorry for being supportive of the war, I really believe in the long run they are better off. God forbid Uday or Qusay became rulers. Things are though for them but you're talking about a tough people. They'll survive and thrive, but it won't be easy.


All people are tough. They will survive no matter what. And from what I have read in CNN, it has not been mainly about suffering, but Bush blustering on and on about this and that without giving anyone any definite answers of what he is trying to accomplish, when it is supposed to be accomplished or what. Uday and Qusay were vicious killers, as was his father. But again you veer away from a direct question that I put to you. How are they any different from the dozens of other dictators in other countries around the world? Africa waits, Myanmar waits, when will you rescue them from despots? Hell, the people of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan wait for that matter (I have a feeling they will go on waiting). The truth is that the "good" dictators are the ones that do what America wants, regardless of how they treat their own people. The "bad" ones are the ones that do what is best for their people even if it is not good for America.

And as for World War III . . . sooner or later if you do not disarm the *real* threats and stop picking on those that can't defend themselves, terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda will get the funds to buy the weapons from an "economic basketcase". And won't *that* be a fine time to act?

You people are systematically ignoring the real threats and making excuses for why you are doing so, while wasting lives (of your own people I might add) and billions of dollars accomplishing nothing against a bunch of nobodies.

If you're going to be a global policemen, at least go after the felons and leave the purse snatchers alone.
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« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2003, 05:30:42 PM »

Not to mention, if a nuke goes off in the US and they can trace the material back to Pyongyang, God, himself, won't be able to help them.
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« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2003, 05:33:08 PM »

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Originally posted by jimbo2002
I think that in order to draw a parallel with iraq, to support your argument you are overstating the power of N. korea, Its probably a paper tiger. I dont lose any sleep at night worrying about it. As for bin laden, the word on the street is that he is working in a chip-shop in watford england and unlikely to be buyimg nukes, but seriously, even the north koreans, bless em, would be unlikely to run that risk, that regime needs dollars to survive, and where do they come from.



Isn't that the kind of complacency that allowed 9/11 to occur in the first place?

And if North korea, as you mentioned, were so economically bankrupt, what would they have to lose by selling arms to terrorist groups? The U.S. still wouldn't attack since it would mean MAD. Remember, not only does Nk have these weapons, but the means to deliver them. Iraq never did.

Word on the street about bin Laden isn't worth very much. He's "probably" been killed at least a dozen times from what I recall correctly.
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« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2003, 05:35:22 PM »

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Originally posted by mindmesh
Not to mention, if a nuke goes off in the US and they can trace the material back to Pyongyang, God, himself, won't be able to help them.


If a sizeable nuke goes off in the U.S., there won't be enough left of America to strike back with. Particularly if you consider that a genuinbe nuclear attack will not occur with just a single bomb, but a battery of them. That's the chance your leader is toying with here. You are ignoring a very real danger while wasting time with those who can't hurt you.
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« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2003, 05:42:38 PM »

Well lets face it, bush is a politician, the world is full of them, are they the source of the problem or the source of the solution unfortunately and paradoxically both. Therein lies the problem, every politician needs a bad guy, if the shoe fits and all that. But why ask for it ? If everybody sings of the same hym sheet it makes for more harmony does it not ? As for chasing nobodies I think those nations may take issue with that label.
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2003, 05:44:09 PM »

How are they any different from the dozens of other dictators in other countries around the world?


A guilty conscience. We helped and supported him until GWI, and left the people to die after that. We have history there, and not a history many Americans are proud of. Thats why we look to them first. Also, add the mental stability of Kim Jun il and an aging dictator whose "psycho" sons would have taken over. Stop before it starts.

As for NK. I'm all for taking them out. The only problem is that isn't a one country Job. even the US can't just walk thru there. We could bomb them to hell and win by default, but you can't do that now a days. You have to occupy to win. Frankly, I don't think the UN has the stones to help. They can't even help broker a discussion.

Isreal and Palestine. I say we bomb them both to hell. Solves that problem right there. No favortism and no discrimination. They want to kill each other, then we can save them the time and energy and do it for them.
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« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2003, 05:46:57 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by jimbo2002
Well lets face it, bush is a politician, the world is full of them, are they the source of the problem or the source of the solution unfortunately and paradoxically both. Therein lies the problem, every politician needs a bad guy, if the shoe fits and all that. But why ask for it ? If everybody sings of the same hym sheet it makes for more harmony does it not ? As for chasing nobodies I think those nations may take issue with that label.


Yes, certainly the Iraqi Minister of Information would take issue with it (if he was still yapping, he'd probably say something like "victory is immanent!").

Yes, every politician needs a bad guy, and Hussein and co. fit the bill. But if you are going to waste billions and billions of dollars while the American economy suffers and continue to lose your young men and women as well as stoke the ire of the rest of the world, wouldn't it be better done with those who *already have* the most dangerous of weapons?

Ignoring a threat doesn't make it go away.
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« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2003, 05:51:57 PM »

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Originally posted by mindmesh
How are they any different from the dozens of other dictators in other countries around the world?


A guilty conscience. We helped and supported him until GWI, and left the people to die after that. We have history there, and not a history many Americans are proud of. Thats why we look to them first. Also, add the mental stability of Kim Jun il and an aging dictator whose "psycho" sons would have taken over. Stop before it starts.

As for NK. I'm all for taking them out. The only problem is that isn't a one country Job. even the US can't just walk thru there. We could bomb them to hell and win by default, but you can't do that now a days. You have to occupy to win. Frankly, I don't think the UN has the stones to help. They can't even help broker a discussion.

Isreal and Palestine. I say we bomb them both to hell. Solves that problem right there. No favortism and no discrimination. They want to kill each other, then we can save them the time and energy and do it for them.


Yes, but Hussein isn't the only ruthless dictator that America has aided. Some of your "best friends" are in that gang.

As for not being able to bomb North Korea to hell . . . you did it with Iraq, how is NK any different? The UN is an ineffectual body and it always has been. For them to have any real clout, they need a military that is willing to do what it takes . . . after the US embarassed them, the world saw how relevant their opinions actually were. Might makes right.

As for Israel/Palestine, to me both sides look like they are a bunch of thugs. Forget bombing them, but not aiding the Israelis with billions of dollars that could go into your economy would help some. Right now the Palestinians have good reason to hate you, but they are pretty powerless and will cease to exist except as a homeless minority in the near future.
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« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2003, 06:01:28 PM »

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Originally posted by Boulware5
Riiiiight. None of the moderators here are as lame or as stupid as you. Sorry, try again.

Enforcer please close this thread.



Oooopps! sorry should have picked up on this one earlier.

should have reported or PM'd me
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