please excuse my many typos...

What does the phrase imply? I can guess, but anyone who knows, please elaborate....

1) A person who doesn't study, just memorizes practice exams/tests, uses braindumps, etc? To BS the test, basically.

or

2) A person who does study for a cert (for example, i-Net+) BUT not touches a computer (a bit of an exaggeration) and just studies by book, and just memorized everything from the book, but knows something about the material already.

or

3) A person who knows nothing about the test and subject matter trying to cram everything in within a week or so by skimming everything and passing the test by a small margin, by studying and knowing what what be tested, but nothing else.
Which one fits?

Me, I have used the Internet for 3+ years and am an hobbyist VB programmer. When looking at the i-Net+ subject matter, I can say I knew 50%, of networking and business issues I knew nothing of. If I passed i-Net+ (which SEEMS likely to happen, since I have read about 2 books and I got around 85% on Examdrill III...), would people consider me a "paper i-Net+"? My main reason for passing may be wierd to some of you: I'm a high school student who's interested in computers, and wants to have "evidence" that I didn't waste my time on the computer all the time (and show something on my college application when I apply). Besides, if I can keep my i-Net+ without recertifying, so much the better! I know a bit about the internet, vb, and html, but I knew most about the internet and decided to venture out into the wacky world of certification attempting to get i-Net+ :-). Also, another line of reasoning of mine was: teens are at an disadvanage because of their age. nmaybe the cert would boost me in the eyes of an employer if i sought a summer job or worked part time during college.

Anyways, would people consider me to have a 'paper cert'?

And also, if I got 85% on Examdrill III without much studying (I read 1/4 of a book recently, and anothr book completely about 2 months ago) what are my chances of passing now? If not now, then how much would my chances improve my taking a week to review both books and all practice questions?

Please reply, because I want to take the test if I will, before Jan 1, when school begins.

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My definition - People who have the certs but without any hands-on experience are "Paper Certs".

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Gareth Leung
MCSE+I, i-Net+

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My definition -- People who are going after certs ONLY for the money and do not care to learn the material because all they want is a position. GL defined them as those with no hands-on. This is true to a degree, but not 100% fair. There are many who are only too willing to get some hands-on, but aren't given the chance. Let's face it . . . constructing a home network to get experience when noone else will give you a chance to prove your eagerness to learn is not the easiest of tasks. Lots of people just can't afford to make their own labs at home. So in addition to not having any hands-on, I would also take into account the motivation, i.e., whether they even WANT to get any hands-on. Remember, the CompTIA certs ARE meant as entry-level certifications. If you already have ten years experience at doing this sort of work, getting any of them will seem like a waste. For example, I am consciously avoiding going after the new MCP2000 certs because I know I do not have access to those products. Being an engineer who has never fixed a problem is a little daft. But then again, a great deal of the i-Net+ deals with the configuration of clients and using the TCP/IP utlities and in general being familiar with the Internet. As such, the term "paper cert" I think is less applicable to this cert than to the CNE or MCSE (it also isn't worth nearly as much -- most employers have never even heard of it). A great deal of i-Net+ hands-on can be gotten just by using a client (like you are now to read this message) and knowing how to tweak it. Don't fool yourself -- experience is valued much more than certs, and they should be. But if you have little else to put on your resume, then this cert may be of some help. It shows that you know a certain minumum level of knowlegde. Most of what is on the i-Net+ CAN actually be got from surfing the net and keeping your eyes open. Knowing what a list server is, knowing which languages tend to be used for server-side scripts and which are exceuted on the client machine . . . you don't need to be an engineer to know these things. Just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 12-21-2000).]

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To me, a Paper Cert is someone who just memorizes brain dumps to pass tests, or who makes claims that their certs means they are experts without the experience to back it up.

People forget, or don't understand, that some people get certifications to try to get their foot in the door in the IT industry. It's still a "who you know" instead of "what you know" in many ways. I earned my certs, but I apply for "lower level" jobs because my experience is not as high as I'd like.

I teach some of the MCSE classes, and are very familiar with the labs, etc., but have done less server admin than I'd like. (I am fully qualified to teach the MCSE classes and can provide a wide range of experience and more depth than what is in the book, but I'm not an SME by any stretch.) When I apply for jobs, I make no claims to being an expert in the field. Instead, I point to my certs as proof that I understand the concepts and will be able to quickly adapt to the specific needs of the company.

I do not have several years of experience, and learned mostly from the book and class labs, but I do NOT consider myself a Paper MCSE. (If you think you know the material, try teaching it. That will show you just where you need to improve.)

I just get tired of people being called Paper MCSEs just because they are book learned instead of hands-on. I've seen plenty of techs who are Monkey-See, Monkey-Do: they know what to do, but haven't a clue as to why it works. I guess attitude and motivation are really the determining factors.

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I agree basically. People do get certs HOPING that they will get some experience, so I am not sure it is totally fair to dismiss them as "paper certs" or "wannabes". The desire may be there, but the opporntunity needs to be there as well.

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It is better to know the material before getting the certification. A lot of IT employers are now giving " competency exams " during their interview process. You don't want to look like an idiot if the interviewer looks at all the certs you have listed on your resume then you flop on the exam. I guess it depends on the exam content but these tests do tell the employer what your competency level is. Nothing like walking out of a job interview with your tail tucked between your legs.

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I agree with that. But not all certs are the same. If you walked into an interview with an MCSE, and didn't really KNOW how to solve serious network problems, you'd really deserve to walk out humbled. The i-Net+ is quite different. It basically tests general knowledge. Also, many people are hoping that these certs will help them get a job. Few newbies will walk into a job and know how to fix most of the problems, like a seasoned professional, but if there is the willingness to learn I don't think they should be written off as merely paper certs. But you do make a good point. There needs to be a certain level of effectiveness that goes with some certifications. But again, these compTIA certs are designed to test the skills of ENTRY-LEVEL technicians, and not highly experienced engineers. Anyone familiar with these certifications should know what level of skill the certification should guarantee.

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Without prejudice, (IMHO) "paper certs" are folks with the qualifications but no "real world" experience, whether by default or by design.
I would think that how you go from there is largely a measure of your own determination and willingness to eat humble pie,understand your inadequacies, roll up those sleeves and LEARN.
Certainly there is a lot more at stake for an MSCE than an I-Net+.

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Spydah MD,FCAP,A+,Network+.

"Who dares, wins!"-SAS

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Good people almost always rise to the top.

Lets not put people down who aren't already tech pros and don't have high end equiptment laying in front of them.

If these are entry level certs then these people are in the right place.

Trebor

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I agree with some of everything you each have posted. However, IMHO, a "paper cert" is someone who can test well, but who doesn't care if he/she has the skills. Skills and experience are not always equivalent terms. I think one may have the right skill set and abilities without necessarily having all the experience. Conversely, one may also have OTJ experience, but not enough skills in the various areas of a cert.

More power to those who are eager to learn and practice and are striving for excellence!! Don't give up!

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwaanza, and Happy New Year!!

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