 My process in getting a job with one of the "Big 5" financial firms (long post )
(there are a few speeling errors on here i didnt feel like editing it, so bear with me here)
I thought i would come on here and drop a note to all of you in regards to my experience i have had in getting hooked up with one of the big 5 firms for an IT job.
For those that dont know, the Big 5 is a group of companies that all basically all do the damn same thing  The 5 companies usually refered to when someone says "Big 5" are:
KPMG
Deloute n Touche
PricewaterhouseCoopers
Arthur Anderson
Ernest & Young
What these companies do is primarly tax and auditing for fortune 500 entities. However they have many other areas/depts, such as "risk management" and other big words like that to describe simple things, for example: "computer security"
Anyways... a lil background info on myself so you can all see where I am coming from.
1996-2001 I was a sole proprietership offering client services to many small business. This i somthing i started right after highschool, its all about the " ME Inc. " idea... being in business for yourself. I come from a family where EVERYONE, from all my aunts and uncles were self employed and entreprenours(sp). With that i grew, up until 2001 when in January I started my first incorporation at hte age of 21.
During my time working at the sole propiteriship level, i performed many duties, from building my first PC (A+ cert) to intstalling my first network (N+, MCSE cert) to providing web based applications and design support (CiW cert) I eventually found my real niche area that i enjoyed; Computer Security.
So in January of 2001, i closed my sole propieteriship, of which i made a meager earning, averaging after taxes around 35 US a year (im in Canada btw). After alot of support and encouragement I started my Inc.
However, the dot com bubble bursted and i was stuck with a startup and clients who wouldnt spend the money to keep me in business, so i had to adapt to the changes the world is facing even today. In june i went and sat for what is argueable one of hte most difficult IT tests out there (cept for maybe the CCIE), it is called the Certified Informaiton Systems Security Professional or CISSP for short. With a 80%+ fail rate, and only 4,500+ in the world with it, taking 6 hours to complete, i achieved it in my first sitting.
With a top level cert under my belt, i started pumping out my resume to all the online web pages, from monster, to hot jobs to workopolis to any others you oculd possibly think of.
Now with that, even in this tight labour market i did recieve a few calls, unfortunetly they were all in a city to which i was not going to relocate to, and made it a difficult decision. I wanted to be flexible enough to get a job, but to try and stay in my home city, if not the same geographical area of the country with out having to make a 4,000+ mile move.
My break came when i was showing one of the Deans at my cities university some security exploits i had found, to which he wanted me to do a presenation on. I told him how the job market was kinda tight, and out of the blue he mentioned that he has been constantly harrased by this one Big 5 HR lady to join up with them in a high placed directorial position. He quipped, do you want hte job?
Flabbergasted, i erked out a meager..."urm.. sure?" And he asked that i forward my resume to his email, and he would send it off to the Hr lady.
Later that evening i did just that, and he sent it off to the HR dept.
I awaken the next morning at 8am sharp to ringing of my cell phone and the voice of the HR dept at this firm, asking if i would be interested in a positinon with them!! I couldn't believe it.
To give you an idea of the time period we are talking here, this was around MID August that i recieved this call.
For all intents and purposes this was your typical initial over the phone interview, where htey tell you a bit about the position and if you are interested, and then sort of quiz you on a few items. That call lasted just over an hour. The positions that htey wanted to fill were Manager and Senior Manager spots at this time.
Just to bring you up to speed on the hierachy and rank system at most of the big 5 it goes somthing like this:
Associate
Senior Associate
Manager
Sr Manager
Director
<a few other ranks in here i think>
Partner (top dog basically, there is one in every major "area", be it a city or for an entire state/province)
So I recieved a followup call 2 days later to set up a proper formal sit down interview with one of the head HR executives from out east to come and sit down and talk with me.
2 weeks later i had my 2nd interview at the firms downtown office, which lasted nearly 2 hours. I was basically asked your 'typical level' of interview questions, nothing too odd ball, like microsofts "why is a man hole cover round?" (so it wont fall through) but more along the lines of what i have done, why i want this job, how i would benefit the firm etc etc. It ended on a good note, we shook hands and she walked me out to the elvators and said i should hear somthing in a few days.
I hear back from the lady i talked with in the intial phone interview, who thorugh out this process would sort of guide me and help me through the process. We seemed to really connect on that first phone interview and she seemd to be rooting for me  ) She would always give me the best time slots (usually the last one at the end) so I would have more time then the rest of them to talk and present myself. I must have quite hte personality, and i wasnt even trying to flirt with her either! Anyways, she calls back and said the lady was impressed with my skills and how i handled myself during hte interview and that they would like to setup a 3rd interview with the national director; the man in charge of the entire countries risk management position. He would be flying out west for 1 day only to interview us candidates.
Now this is when somthing happens that rattles you to the bone somthing that no one ever expects or forsee's. My mother at 51 years of age dies due to a brain anurism she suffered the week before. She dies in the intensive care unit the day before my Nat' directors interview.
Most people would be overcome with grief and sadness and cancel, however i knew that my mother would not have wanted me to do that and risk losing this job as she was very excited for me through the first 2 steps i had taken with the firm. I knew that she wouldnt have wanted me to cancel the interview and risk not getting hired (there would be no option for a re interview at a later time, it was then or never).
Sucking it in and bearing the best face possible i trudged through an interview lasting almost over 2 hours. Everyone fears the interview, try doing it after the death of one of your most important people in your life.
A few days later, we would suffer yet another tradgedy. The WTC attack, to which the nat'l director was stationed at and not heard from for several days. It wasnt 2 weeks after, that I got an email letting me know he was allright, and that he was very impressed with my abilities and capabilities. I think there was an angel on my shoulder that helped me through it
I then went through my 4th interview, a technical interview another week after that, followed a few days later by an executive interrogation panel session that lasted almost another 2 hours, in which im sure the whole purpose is to make you cry under the relentless and intense pressure a panel interogation inflicts on you. Remember, im being interviewd for a high level management position.
I grin and bear it, and work my way through it, slightly rattled. Im the type that fights back wtih both fists when pushed against hte wall, but that is not the way to woo over a crowed like i had to. A calm and perservarance overcame me and I handled myself remarkably well.
That was the end of september. The first week of october i recieved a phone call, again out of hte blue, this time from a totally different divsion of the HR dept. It was the dreaded industrial psychology interview. This is the sort of question on how you would 'get along' with other people, different situations, how you would handle stress and conflicts etc... I was warned it was going to happen from my 'source' and had prepared by doing some background info on the industry of industrial psychology. That was my 6th interview, lasting about an hour n a half.
Then about 10 days ago, I was called in to talk with the partner who was on the panel interogating me. He said I have done well and they are very interested in me, and wanted to know if i was still interested in the position. I said yes, talked some more, and he said he would get back to me.
A few days later, he said he wanted me to talk with the newly hired Sr Manager, so she could get an idea of who i was, and who she would have to work with, so i had to undergo another interview. This was quite easy as it was more along the ideas of a 'meet n greet' type of situation, more along hte lines of getting to know each other.
I guess my enrollment with the firm depended upon her evaluation of me, if she could work with me, and the day after that meeting, the partner called me up again and asked me to come in to discuss salary compensation. It went really well, and he said that I had done very well through out the process, beating out 37 other high end applicants of which im sure several were one to two decades older than i was. He said they spent alot of time "rattling hte bushes" to flush out the creame of the crop. Although i did not get a managerial postion (to which im acutally glad for) I was offered the lead sr associate position.
Suffice to say, yesterday (friday) i picked up my formal job offer package, including a salary that I was able to negotiate into a bracket that i had wanted. So, for all intents and purposes im 99% hired, they want me to start work on Nov 12th bearing that everything on the criminal, credit, drug and reference checks, including stock independence verification turns out okay, I'll be off and running.
A few things i wanted to point out here.
A) I would not have been hired on this job, if i did not know that dean at the univ. It just goes to show that who you know IS VERY important.
B) professional orginization membership pays off. I would not have met the dean had i not enrolled in CIPS (a canadian IT group) and networked/worked the crowd.
C) confidence is A MUST. I think the shock and loss of my mother instilled a very strong sense to win this job, and i did just that. However, even if her death had not happened I felt that i stil would have performed well enough, but i think that extra umph at the end really helped to push me over. I talked like i have never talked before.
D) this was really my first VERY formal interview process. When you are in business for yourself, you dont go through interviews, you have client meetings at a resteraunt, at a bar, over a glass of beer. So this was quite a different atmoshpere to work under. But it was my experience with clients, and my consulting background that was what helped to pave the way.
E) Im am degreeless, but my amount of expereience and certs got me the job. The fact that i was able to go through a management interview process, with out a MBA, in a firm that employes the largest amount of MBA's was really quite enthralling. It just goes to show that if you got the right stuff, that a degree doesnt matter. HOWEVER had I have a the three letters MBA behind my name, during hte interview process, i would have gotten the manager position. But, im not disapointed i did not get it, as it will give me time to prove myself.
F) Age. This is a hard one. I know there are a few on here that are of an older age. Im 22. The fact that i was able to make it this far, at this age, with no degree and only a handfull of certs really amazes me. However i think that they were interested in me, due to my age so that they could mold me into other positions at the firm. This was brought up on many occasions. They mentioned how i could move about with in the firm to any other area if I so wanted etc...
G) I've heard all the negative atributes of working for a big 5 firm. If you want to get an idea, go visit www.thevault.com and choose the message board for any of hte big 5. I made this choice, having talked to people in person who have worked with this firm and from people online, and made the choice. I know what im walking into. I dont enter any situation with out all the facts and background info (payed off on at least 2 of the interviews) I hope to use htis time to build my contacts, work on several large projects and move on after 3 or 4 years wich seems to be standard.
So i want to finish this by saying that, even in a tight labour market, there are still oportunities. If you REALLY want a job, and you put your full force forward, you will get it.
Patience is also a virtue that i have inherited from a young age dealing with computers It wasnt untill yesterady that the whole interview process ended, encompasing just over 2 months.
good things come to those that wait.
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10-21-01 03:01 AM
