I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
industry and wait out the low tide. This is what I have done. I was
a LAN Admin for 4 years. I lost my job when the company closed the
office in my city. The big local paper was jammed full of about 2 or
3 I.T. jobs every Sunday so that'll give you some clue as to the job
market in my area. After 6 mo of searching, I accepted an entry level
position on a help desk. I've been here for almost a year and I'm
ready to move on. Here's where I need advice. Right now my resume
shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
titles. Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
"depression"?
thx all

Report this post to a moderator

Anyone hiring in this industry knows what the last few years have been like.
Going to a functional or combination resume is a good move. What I've been
doing is taking classes and expanding my skills set while waiting for the
next big break. We have a community college that has some good, hands on,
CIS courses at reasonable prices and you probably have one near you too.
They offer a good opportunity to tune up your Unix, Java, HTML, or other
skills. I just saw a job announcement looking for a L2 help desk technician
with Web Design/HTML skills.

I believe that there are a few areas in the IT industry such as Info
Assurance/Security that should show some growth. I think a lot of what we
are seeing with offshoring of IT service jobs is almost a fad. You just
can't expect an MBA to really have a clue. They go to bed with dreams of
$5K a year SysAdmins dancing in their little heads and they just got to have
a piece. They are like a bunch of fuk'n lemmings. All we need is a couple
of well publicized incidents of "offshore" workers committing identify theft
or computer fraud and "at least" some of the work will come back to the U.S.

Good luck with your job search.

John

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My personal opinion,

You need twice the qualifications and experience to get half the wage.

Have a look at www.cramsession.com and they give overviews of jobs and what
quals seem to be good to get in at entry, mid and high level, very eye
opening in some positions.

From what I have seen around with jobs advertised security, advanced web and
SQL seem to be still in reasonable demand, but they want certs and
preferably experience as well.

Good luck, we need it. I am having to double my certs and bring it all up to
date just to get beack into where I left 2 years ago.


--
House - Sat in a call centre on minimum wage but using my time to update my
certs, done 4 exams in 4 months and plan to go further!

MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, A+, Network +

Dont e-mail me, I dont exist!

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
> has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
> some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
> and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
> industry and wait out the low tide. This is what I have done. I was
> a LAN Admin for 4 years. I lost my job when the company closed the
> office in my city. The big local paper was jammed full of about 2 or
> 3 I.T. jobs every Sunday so that'll give you some clue as to the job
> market in my area. After 6 mo of searching, I accepted an entry level
> position on a help desk. I've been here for almost a year and I'm
> ready to move on. Here's where I need advice. Right now my resume
> shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
> embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
> showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
> my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
> maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
> titles. Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
> "depression"?
> thx all

Report this post to a moderator

I worked for a well known ISP for the last 5 1/2 years and watched
progressively more of our support and IT staff outsourced to places like
Manilla and India.

As an assistant project manager I dealt daily with mopping up after the
messes the outsourcers created. Every single day I had complaints from
customers and internal staff about the poor quality of the information
provided by them.

The outsourcers simply did not have the skills necessary to do the job the
company was asking them to do in an efficient manner.

But because of the cost savings the company continued to outsource more and
more. It was still cheaper for them even if it took 4-5 contacts to solve a
problem that could have been solved by 1 or 2 contacts from in-house
support.

Identity theft may be the last starw at some point, but I think the first
things that will start to come back to bite companies (like my former
employer) in the butt is the quality of the information and service provided
by these outsourcers. Customers (both internal and external) aren't going
to put up with this stuff for very long.




"JBS" <noone@thisdontwork.net> wrote in message
news:%aTNb.9826$q4.1188@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Anyone hiring in this industry knows what the last few years have been
like.
> Going to a functional or combination resume is a good move. What I've
been
> doing is taking classes and expanding my skills set while waiting for the
> next big break. We have a community college that has some good, hands on,
> CIS courses at reasonable prices and you probably have one near you too.
> They offer a good opportunity to tune up your Unix, Java, HTML, or other
> skills. I just saw a job announcement looking for a L2 help desk
technician
> with Web Design/HTML skills.
>
> I believe that there are a few areas in the IT industry such as Info
> Assurance/Security that should show some growth. I think a lot of what we
> are seeing with offshoring of IT service jobs is almost a fad. You just
> can't expect an MBA to really have a clue. They go to bed with dreams of
> $5K a year SysAdmins dancing in their little heads and they just got to
have
> a piece. They are like a bunch of fuk'n lemmings. All we need is a
couple
> of well publicized incidents of "offshore" workers committing identify
theft
> or computer fraud and "at least" some of the work will come back to the
U.S.
>
> Good luck with your job search.
>
> John
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

On 16 Jan 2004 06:13:16 -0800, tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com (Studying
Hard) wrote:

<snip>
>Right now my resume
>shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
>embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
>showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
>my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
>maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
>titles.

Employers *hate* functional resumes. They are accustomed to
chronological resumes and that is what they expect to see.

If I was the hiring manager then I would be likely to hire someone
with the traditional format resume, even with a glitch on it, than a
functional resume. Yes, I used to hire people.

>Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
>"depression"?

Use your free-time from your current low-challenge job to update your
certifications and skills. Add a Windows 2000 or 2003 MCSE if you
don't have one already. (I'm working on Win2K MCSE myself while
unemployed.) If you already have those certs then pursue the security
certifications that another poster suggested, or take Cisco classes.

--
Jobs nationwide and especially jobs in Dayton Ohio USA
http://www.tincher.to/

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"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice.

Get out of IT and never look back. There are going to be higher paid
secretaries than your average network admin. Finding a job even as an IT
manager or above is quite a daunting task, even if you have a college degree
and loads of certifications, and even management experience. We're are the
auto workers of this decade. We are dying, and will soon be totally dead
(as a profession). Read alt.computer.consultants and EVERY DAY you will see
20 to 30 fresh stories off of the wire about the latest in IT outsourcing
and work visas for foreigners.

If you want to really stay in IT, get into sales. Some say security is a
good field to enter, but why they think that is immune to outsourcing is
beyond me.

G

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very good advice.

get out of IT. Thats what im doing. I have some great and very exciting
things planned. I don't like the idea of sitting at a monitor all day
growing a fat arse anymore. And neither do i like crawling on my knees in a
suit and tie to fix someones damn computer that they have shoved under a
desk like some piece of discarded trash. Im tired of cubicles. Im tired of
my boss getting $170 / hr for my services while i only get a fraction of
that. Im sick of the uncertainties of contract positions. I dislike
airconditioned server rooms. And im tired of the stupid certification
process where i've wasted so much money on (thank gawd i never actually
payed for any courses)

ccnp,ccdp,mcse+i(nt4),mcse(2k)
,mcsa,mcdba,cca,oca&boredofIT


"Glarb Shattenstein" <shattenstein@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jqWNb.28212$873.595213@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
>
> Get out of IT and never look back. There are going to be higher paid
> secretaries than your average network admin. Finding a job even as an IT
> manager or above is quite a daunting task, even if you have a college
degree
> and loads of certifications, and even management experience. We're are
the
> auto workers of this decade. We are dying, and will soon be totally dead
> (as a profession). Read alt.computer.consultants and EVERY DAY you will
see
> 20 to 30 fresh stories off of the wire about the latest in IT outsourcing
> and work visas for foreigners.
>
> If you want to really stay in IT, get into sales. Some say security is a
> good field to enter, but why they think that is immune to outsourcing is
> beyond me.
>
> G
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

I had the same worries as you but a different scenerio. I worked for a company doing tech support for 3 yeras and the company went out of business and bought out. Then I worked 2 years at a pizza place as the area i lived at did not have IT jobs. I studied for my A+ and got it. I quit the pizza place finally and moved to Cincinnati where still, the jobs are low here. But I kept looking and finally got another tech support position that is not as "low end" as many amy assume. It's the best opportunity I've ever had in all of my yeras of working period. ANd hopefully I will move up from here.
So I would say stick with it depending on what area of the country you are in. There's still a few companies who do not want to outsource to Indians or whatever. You just have to look harder or wait it out and find a "lucky break".
As for your work experience, just take more certifications and try to move up and get more responsibility in your current company. I think you are doing the right thing if you plan on staying with IT. I thought I would never get another IT job since I was working in pizza to pay the bills. But it ended up happening. Employers are loyal to those who stay at a job for a period of time as opposed to job hopping. And most employers understand the field now and realistically know that someone is not going to be a sitting duck. They have tod o something to pay the bills, etc, even if it means taking a lower paying job or lower skilled job.
If I can make a comeback after pizza, you can surely make a comeback after a helpdesk job

Report this post to a moderator

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
> has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
> some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
> and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
> industry and wait out the low tide.

this is very simple to answer. if you are single, stick with it.
if you have a family to feed, look for alternatives...

if you stick with it, IT temp companies will get you jobs. if you do good
work, you get to pick which jobs you want. depending on the client, if they
aren't in a highering freeze and you do good work, then you have a good
chance of them highering you after your contract ends.

another alternative: go marry an ugly rich chick. it worked out for a buddy
of mine.

-a|ex

Report this post to a moderator

Jaythen <Jaythen.105rwh@mail.examnotes.net> wrote in message news:<Jaythen.105rwh@mail.examnotes.net>...
> I had the same worries as you but a different scenerio. I worked for a
> company doing tech support for 3 yeras and the company went out of
> business and bought out. Then I worked 2 years at a pizza place as the
> area i lived at did not have IT jobs. I studied for my A+ and got it.
> I quit the pizza place finally and moved to Cincinnati where still, the
> jobs are low here. But I kept looking and finally got another tech
> support position that is not as "low end" as many amy assume. It's the
> best opportunity I've ever had in all of my yeras of working period.
> ANd hopefully I will move up from here.
> So I would say stick with it depending on what area of the country you
> are in. There's still a few companies who do not want to outsource to
> Indians or whatever. You just have to look harder or wait it out and
> find a "lucky break".
> As for your work experience, just take more certifications and try to
> move up and get more responsibility in your current company. I think
> you are doing the right thing if you plan on staying with IT. I
> thought I would never get another IT job since I was working in pizza
> to pay the bills. But it ended up happening. Employers are loyal to
> those who stay at a job for a period of time as opposed to job hopping.
> And most employers understand the field now and realistically know
> that someone is not going to be a sitting duck. They have tod o
> something to pay the bills, etc, even if it means taking a lower paying
> job or lower skilled job.
> If I can make a comeback after pizza, you can surely make a comeback
> after a helpdesk job
>
>
> Jaythen
> Sign up for free daily practice questions at: http://www.QoD.US
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via http://www.examnotes.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this thread: http://www.examnotes.net/article1033022.html

Thank you all very much for your advice, especially you Jaythen. I
also live in Cincinnati. It's funny, but when I first lost my job
last year, I almost took a job delivering pizzas because it paid more
than the first I.T. jobs I was offered. (I was actually offered
$10/hr for a network admin job. Dominoes was paying $12/hr plus tips
to deliver pizzas.) For the past month, I've noticed an avg of 3-6
I.T. jobs in the Career Builder every week. Looks kinda bleak. But
I'm working toward an MCSA (2 tests left)and CCNA and trying to do
what I can to find a job with responsibilities more suitable to me or
finding some consulting work on the side. I wish everyone the best of
luck.
thx,
T

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