Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to help us in the
attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is fair that
Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their product that we
cannot sell it once we have no need for it???? Certification Prices Are
horrible enough as it is

$199.99 Comptia Network+
$475.00 Learnkey Network+ CBT
$30.50 Sybex Network+ Study Guide
----------------------------------------
$705.49 TOTAL

Thats alot of $$$ for just one certification......and we arent even counting
in to this ....TIME.....and lots of cups of Coffee......but if we were able
to resell off that $475 CBT even at half price .....it wouldnt be soo
bad....but to tell us we are stuck with it ........I dont see SYBEX saying
that you cant sell there book after you buy it......I am just curious as to
how you guys see this

Robert
A+

Report this post to a moderator

That's software for you (intellectual property). It's the same thing for MS
OSes; once you buy them, you're stuck with them.

Steve
A+ (Net+ in May...i-Net+ in July...)


"Robert" <liamemapsREMOVETHIS!!@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lN1fa.123965$7%.84688@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to help us in
the
> attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is fair that
> Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their product that we
> cannot sell it once we have no need for it????[SNIP]
>
> Robert
> A+

Report this post to a moderator

Perhaps if these companies sold their products for a reasonable price then
perhaps it wouldn't be such an expense to use their materials. However, in
defense of those companies if all those pirate scumbags who buy a copy and
then sell them all over these newsgroups didn't do that the companies would
be able to sell at a lower price. It is a two edged sword - those who have
purchased a legitimate copy should be able to sell it - Intellectual
Property rights are crap - what the heck is the text in a book if not the
efforts of an authors intellect?

--
RussS
MCP W2K Pro & Server, A+, Net+

http://www.techexams.net/

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i find it odd, though, how books, videos and records/cds also have a line
saying something like "not for rent, hire, resale", yet they can be borrowed
or sold on.


"RussS" <yeah_right@roflmao.com> wrote in message
news:J75fa.27398$jE3.628955@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Perhaps if these companies sold their products for a reasonable price then
> perhaps it wouldn't be such an expense to use their materials. However,
in
> defense of those companies if all those pirate scumbags who buy a copy and
> then sell them all over these newsgroups didn't do that the companies
would
> be able to sell at a lower price. It is a two edged sword - those who
have
> purchased a legitimate copy should be able to sell it - Intellectual
> Property rights are crap - what the heck is the text in a book if not the
> efforts of an authors intellect?
>
> --
> RussS
> MCP W2K Pro & Server, A+, Net+
>
> http://www.techexams.net/
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

This is a great scam the computer industry has foisted on the
public - but it has created a large industry, so I guess it's a
double-edged sword.

The scam is a fiction that the software industry has got passed
into law, and that fiction is that you don't (in fact you can't)
buy software, you can only rent it for use on one pc. It's called
licensing. Unlike every other rental or leasing scheme, however,
you pay full price up front and thus can't get any of your money
back by turning it in, as you can with most other things you rent.

I wrote the first consumer how-to book about saving money when you
lease a car. It was ripped off at least twice, by other writers,
chapter for chapter. So you better believe I'm in favor of
protecting intellectual property rights. Interestingly, however,
I had no protection against those ripoffs, because you can only
copyright sentences, word for word, you can't copyright the
structure or organization of ideas. This is odd, because the
structure and flow of ideas is much harder to "invent" than the
phrasing of the sentences.

However, once those ideas and sentences are embodied in an
object - a book - and somebody buys the book, the object becomes
their personal (as opposed to real) property. They do not have
the right to make copies of the book and sell them or use anything
copied from the book in any way that earns them money - but they
do have the right to dispose of the object however they see fit.
Just as they have the right to sell a car, or a blanket, or their
undies, if they are Britney Spears.

The software industry, including the cbt publishers, have
convinced congress to violate your right to personal property. It
is entirely right to prosecute you for making copies of the
Learnkey CBT software and selling those copies. It is right to
prosecute you for putting unpaid for copies of, say, Office 97 on
the cheapo, white box computers you build in order to gain a
competitive advantage. But it is entirely wrong to make it
illegal for you to sell the copy you paid for when you are done
with it. However, that's the law.

Mike Flinn

"Robert" <liamemapsREMOVETHIS!!@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lN1fa.123965$7%.84688@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to
help us in the
> attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is
fair that
> Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their
product that we
> cannot sell it once we have no need for it???? Certification
Prices Are
> horrible enough as it is
>
> $199.99 Comptia Network+
> $475.00 Learnkey Network+ CBT
> $30.50 Sybex Network+ Study Guide
> ----------------------------------------
> $705.49 TOTAL
>
> Thats alot of $$$ for just one certification......and we arent
even counting
> in to this ....TIME.....and lots of cups of Coffee......but if
we were able
> to resell off that $475 CBT even at half price .....it wouldnt
be soo
> bad....but to tell us we are stuck with it ........I dont see
SYBEX saying
> that you cant sell there book after you buy it......I am just
curious as to
> how you guys see this
>
> Robert
> A+
>
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

I put a bit of thought into this sort of thing, and I say yes, you should be
able to. I am against piracy, and understand piracy laws. I have in fact
read the Learnkey documents, amd in their eyes you don't even own the cds!
You are simply purchasing the right for a one time use of the material.
Certainly you could use it as many times as you like, but the marketing plan
is one course sold per certification, likened to a college course, you pay
for a course and can't 'sell' that college course to someone else. But I
fell that analogy is invalid. If I were to take any college course I pay the
tuition and buy the books, then when done Im free to keep the books or sell
them, in fact its common practice to sell the books.

"Robert" <liamemapsREMOVETHIS!!@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lN1fa.123965$7%.84688@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to help us in
the
> attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is fair that
> Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their product that we
> cannot sell it once we have no need for it???? Certification Prices Are
> horrible enough as it is
>
> $199.99 Comptia Network+
> $475.00 Learnkey Network+ CBT
> $30.50 Sybex Network+ Study Guide
> ----------------------------------------
> $705.49 TOTAL
>
> Thats alot of $$$ for just one certification......and we arent even
counting
> in to this ....TIME.....and lots of cups of Coffee......but if we were
able
> to resell off that $475 CBT even at half price .....it wouldnt be soo
> bad....but to tell us we are stuck with it ........I dont see SYBEX saying
> that you cant sell there book after you buy it......I am just curious as
to
> how you guys see this
>
> Robert
> A+
>
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

My view is

I can buy and sell Books.......so why not software......i will tell you
why.....it is because books were around before this world started twisting
laws around to suit themselves.......Anyone out there hear about the guy who
broke into this couples house to rob it while they were on vacation.....but
the dumbass got locked in the garage.....and when the couple came home
......the guy accually sued them for a faulty garage door opener.....and he
won!!......This is just the same sort of backwards thinking which allows
this world to continue on the downward spiral right down the toliet

Rob



"JK_Deth" <john1@telpage.net> wrote in message
news:v824nmn4bl5581@corp.supernews.com...
> I put a bit of thought into this sort of thing, and I say yes, you should
be
> able to. I am against piracy, and understand piracy laws. I have in fact
> read the Learnkey documents, amd in their eyes you don't even own the cds!
> You are simply purchasing the right for a one time use of the material.
> Certainly you could use it as many times as you like, but the marketing
plan
> is one course sold per certification, likened to a college course, you pay
> for a course and can't 'sell' that college course to someone else. But I
> fell that analogy is invalid. If I were to take any college course I pay
the
> tuition and buy the books, then when done Im free to keep the books or
sell
> them, in fact its common practice to sell the books.
>
> "Robert" <liamemapsREMOVETHIS!!@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:lN1fa.123965$7%.84688@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to help us in
> the
> > attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is fair that
> > Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their product that
we
> > cannot sell it once we have no need for it???? Certification Prices Are
> > horrible enough as it is
> >
> > $199.99 Comptia Network+
> > $475.00 Learnkey Network+ CBT
> > $30.50 Sybex Network+ Study Guide
> > ----------------------------------------
> > $705.49 TOTAL
> >
> > Thats alot of $$$ for just one certification......and we arent even
> counting
> > in to this ....TIME.....and lots of cups of Coffee......but if we were
> able
> > to resell off that $475 CBT even at half price .....it wouldnt be soo
> > bad....but to tell us we are stuck with it ........I dont see SYBEX
saying
> > that you cant sell there book after you buy it......I am just curious as
> to
> > how you guys see this
> >
> > Robert
> > A+
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Report this post to a moderator

It's not universally or automatically the law that you cannot sell used
(or even new) software.

You are correct that you buy software, you are not buying software.
However, you are also not renting it, either. Rather, you are BUYING a
LICENSE to USE the sofware. The license is an entity separate and
distinct from the software itself, and in general you can sell the
license unless there is a specific clause in the license agreement that
says that it's non-transferrable (granted, many software products do
have such a clause).

There's also the pragmatic side of this, which is that if you never
registered the software, while tranferring the license (which we would
call selling the software, pragmatically) may not be legal, there's no
way to get caught as neither the software nor the license is traceable.

And as an interesting side question here, say I buy a software product
and never open it (literally, never break the shrink-wrap). I think
that even in the presence of a "non-transferrability clause", it's then
legal to sell the software, because I was never a "licensee" myself.

Taking this further, if I open the shrink-wrap but do not use (install)
the software, what has changed? At what point am I deemed to have
legally "accepted" and become a party to a binding license agreement?
Now say that I open the package, install it and then delete it from my
hard drive. What's the difference between then selling a "used"
product, selling a product that had been opened but not installed, and
selling a product that had never been opened?

All of this is a "gray area"; it's just not "settled law" at this time,
one way or another. Ed Foster has done a good job of covering this in
his "Gripe Line" column. The legal question revolves around "fair use"
doctrine of the copyright laws and also the "doctrine of first sale".
And it's just as wrong to insist that you can never resell software
(legally) as it is for some people to insist that it's ok to give away
COPIES.

It's a new area of law, and it's just not fully established yet.


MF wrote:
> This is a great scam the computer industry has foisted on the
> public - but it has created a large industry, so I guess it's a
> double-edged sword.
>
> The scam is a fiction that the software industry has got passed
> into law, and that fiction is that you don't (in fact you can't)
> buy software, you can only rent it for use on one pc. It's called
> licensing. Unlike every other rental or leasing scheme, however,
> you pay full price up front and thus can't get any of your money
> back by turning it in, as you can with most other things you rent.
>
> I wrote the first consumer how-to book about saving money when you
> lease a car. It was ripped off at least twice, by other writers,
> chapter for chapter. So you better believe I'm in favor of
> protecting intellectual property rights. Interestingly, however,
> I had no protection against those ripoffs, because you can only
> copyright sentences, word for word, you can't copyright the
> structure or organization of ideas. This is odd, because the
> structure and flow of ideas is much harder to "invent" than the
> phrasing of the sentences.
>
> However, once those ideas and sentences are embodied in an
> object - a book - and somebody buys the book, the object becomes
> their personal (as opposed to real) property. They do not have
> the right to make copies of the book and sell them or use anything
> copied from the book in any way that earns them money - but they
> do have the right to dispose of the object however they see fit.
> Just as they have the right to sell a car, or a blanket, or their
> undies, if they are Britney Spears.
>
> The software industry, including the cbt publishers, have
> convinced congress to violate your right to personal property. It
> is entirely right to prosecute you for making copies of the
> Learnkey CBT software and selling those copies. It is right to
> prosecute you for putting unpaid for copies of, say, Office 97 on
> the cheapo, white box computers you build in order to gain a
> competitive advantage. But it is entirely wrong to make it
> illegal for you to sell the copy you paid for when you are done
> with it. However, that's the law.
>
> Mike Flinn
>
> "Robert" <liamemapsREMOVETHIS!!@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:lN1fa.123965$7%.84688@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
>>Most of us in these 2 newsgroups probably have used CBT's to
>
> help us in the
>
>>attainment of our certification.....Do you believe that it is
>
> fair that
>
>>Learnkey/Keystone/CBT Nuggets says that once we buy their
>
> product that we
>
>>cannot sell it once we have no need for it???? Certification
>
> Prices Are
>
>>horrible enough as it is
>>
>>$199.99 Comptia Network+
>>$475.00 Learnkey Network+ CBT
>>$30.50 Sybex Network+ Study Guide
>>----------------------------------------
>>$705.49 TOTAL
>>
>>Thats alot of $$$ for just one certification......and we arent
>
> even counting
>
>>in to this ....TIME.....and lots of cups of Coffee......but if
>
> we were able
>
>>to resell off that $475 CBT even at half price .....it wouldnt
>
> be soo
>
>>bad....but to tell us we are stuck with it ........I dont see
>
> SYBEX saying
>
>>that you cant sell there book after you buy it......I am just
>
> curious as to
>
>>how you guys see this
>>
>>Robert
>>A+
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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