Hi,

I've just started studying for the MCDBA exams and I have
two questions which I need answered please:

1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
up at home to play with whilst studying)

2. Which is the best exam to do first.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Simon.

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> 1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
> SQL Server in order to pass the exams.

The questions are generally on MSSQL-specific issues, with a few "arrange
some or all of these statements to create a script that best accomplishes
____" questions that require fairly deep knowledge of the syntax. On the
design exam, you'll probably need to know a bit about MS-specific collation,
indexing, constraint types, etc. On the admin exam, you'll probably see
questions about replication and XML support. These are all presumably
implemented differently enough to make it challenging without direct MSSQL
experience. You can probably recognize the idiosyncracies and commit those
to memory, but they'll almost certainly stand out more clearly after you
debug a script containing them several times.

> Is this true or is it possible to pass them without the experience

I know that I couldn't have passed purely from reading a book or brain dump
(note the hissing noises from the gallery at mention of that term). I did
manage to pass both design and admin on the first attempt with several
months experience and less than an hour each of skimming cramsessions as my
only real "studying."

> bearing in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with
> Oracle and Access.

As I mentioned, you're not likely to get any ANSI SQL questions. You _may_
see Access mentioned as a front-end to SQL Server, but more likely mentioned
in passing than essential to the answer. As for Oracle, refer back to my
first paragraph.

> (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
> up at home to play with whilst studying)

If you find an engaging use for it, and build a multi-instance or
multi-server setup, as well as a large ERD, that certainly counts as
experience in my estimation. I am, however, currently unemployed
(voluntarily for health / education reasons), so my opinion is probably only
valid in terms of the exam.


> 2. Which is the best exam to do first.

If you understand Win2k groups, users, and basic permissions, you won't see
much else from the Server exam in the SQL design or admin exam, so it can
come at any time. That's the last exam I need to take, and I keep
procrastinating horribly.

For the elective, if you have VB6, C++, or FoxPro experience, you might want
to get the elective out of the way while it's still valid. I've got IIS4,
which counts but is no longer available to take. I plan on getting MCAD, and
most of the .NET exams count as replacements. If MS stays consistent, I
should stay an MCDBA on SQL2000 indefinitely anyway, but I'd prefer to have
something that looks valid if an employer visits the site. The only case
where the order of the elective might matter is if you want to take the data
warehousing exam, but it's from SQL7 and everyone seems to be hoping for a
new version when the SQL2003 exams are released (still probably about a year
away). If you did decide to take that one, it'd probably be best to take it
after both SQL admin and design, just to make sure you have a very firm
foundation.

Since you apparently have a significant background in SQL, the design &
implementation exam might be the easiest transition. There is at least some
reference to normalization, ERDs, and other relatively standardized
concepts, and you're probably better off having a strong Transact-SQL
background before trying to understand the administration side. It's not a
requirement, but I found it much easier to figure out and use all the
maintenance stored procedures, indexing, security structure, linked servers,
etc. after having built and developed against a number of databases, and
didn't fully get them until after taking the design exam.

Others argue that sysadmins might find it easiest to understand the
administration side, as it's mostly a GUI, and you have to walk through the
installation anyway, but I seem to recall some actual T-SQL on the admin
exam, and I'd think your background would make design & implementation
easier.


Good luck,

Chris Hance
MCP: IIS4, SQL2k Design, SQL2k Admin
ASP Developer since 1997

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I have no idea how hard the 2000 sql exams are since mine were done in 7.0.
But I know that I had a solid 2 weeks of sql under my belt when I took the
admin exam and passed. I did all the labs in the Sybex Study Guide. Then I
used a "definately legal" way of doing practice exams. The design exam took
probably a month of doing the same things. Good luck.


"Simon Hearn" <sndhearn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:042501c2e912$dbdd9410$a30
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I've just started studying for the MCDBA exams and I have
> two questions which I need answered please:
>
> 1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
> SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
> it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
> in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
> and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
> up at home to play with whilst studying)
>
> 2. Which is the best exam to do first.
>
> Any help would be most appreciated.
>
> Simon.

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Cheers for that, a very thorough answer. I think I need to
do the Win 2000 exam first because I don't even know
exactly what a work group is yet.

Cheers,

Simon.

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> I've just started studying for the MCDBA exams and I have
> two questions which I need answered please:
>
> 1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
> SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
> it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
> in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
> and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
> up at home to play with whilst studying)

A certification in something without experience is pointless, you aren't
helping yourself at all. If you want to use your cert as more than a wall
decoration, you need to learn the product thoroughly so your cert will be
worth something. Books and tests won't get you there, no matter how much
Oracle or Access hands-on you have had. You will be much more advanced and
will probably learn the concepts much quicker than most, but definately set
up a lab. Play with replication, security and the things that are different
from Oracle in your test environment. It only takes a couple computers and
eval copies of win2k and sql 2k.

If you are an MCDBA who has never laid their hands on a SQL box, when you
have that first challenge of fixing some obscure problem, your going to be
in for a real eye-opener.

> 2. Which is the best exam to do first.

I started with the non-SQL exams, Win2k Server 215, and Network
Infrastructure 216. Then I did SQL Admin 228 and finally Design 229. I
have heard if you are more of a programmer it is best to take the design
first, whereas if you are better at Sys Admin things, take the SQL Admin
test first. If you don't have a lot of experience with Win2k, then I would
suggest taking that exam first. The other elective you can take whenever
you like.

> Any help would be most appreciated.
>
> Simon.

Good luck,
Matt

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>1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
>SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
>it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
>in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
>and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
>up at home to play with whilst studying)

You do not have to have real world experience in order to pass the
exams. This in itself helps to undermine the worth of the
certification process.

Administrating sql server and/or a win2k site, is not an easy thing to
do. A lot of what is required is not covered in the exam, i.e.
political & geographical issues. However, I'm sure you understand
that.

In addition to the ms cert, have you not thought about the Oracle
certification processes?

>2. Which is the best exam to do first.

Only you can answer that question. Really it's down to which subject
you feel most confident with.

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Unfortunately, with any of Microsoft's exams if you study enough you can
pass without experience. The questions is will you be able to perform the
actual task if hired based on an achieved certification.

As for which exam to take first I can't comment since I've only taken 70-228
towards my MCDBA.

--
vt


"Simon Hearn" <sndhearn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:042501c2e912$dbdd9410$a30
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I've just started studying for the MCDBA exams and I have
> two questions which I need answered please:
>
> 1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
> SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
> it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
> in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
> and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
> up at home to play with whilst studying)
>
> 2. Which is the best exam to do first.
>
> Any help would be most appreciated.
>
> Simon.

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Matt,

In theory I agree with your point about certifying without having
experience. However, I do believe that there are some paper certs out there
that have every intention of accumulating the required experience. It goes
back to the philosophical question: Which came first? Microsoft knowingly
allows this to continue so what can we do?

--
vt


"Matt" <MattnoChilders.spam_@msn.com> wrote in message
news:#z2pfAb6CHA.2156@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> > I've just started studying for the MCDBA exams and I have
> > two questions which I need answered please:
> >
> > 1. I read everywhere that you need actual experience with
> > SQL Server in order to pass the exams. Is this true or is
> > it possible to pass them without the experience, bearing
> > in mind i know SQL well and have worked loads with Oracle
> > and Access. (+ I am thinking of setting a little network
> > up at home to play with whilst studying)
>
> A certification in something without experience is pointless, you aren't
> helping yourself at all. If you want to use your cert as more than a wall
> decoration, you need to learn the product thoroughly so your cert will be
> worth something. Books and tests won't get you there, no matter how much
> Oracle or Access hands-on you have had. You will be much more advanced
and
> will probably learn the concepts much quicker than most, but definately
set
> up a lab. Play with replication, security and the things that are
different
> from Oracle in your test environment. It only takes a couple computers
and
> eval copies of win2k and sql 2k.
>
> If you are an MCDBA who has never laid their hands on a SQL box, when you
> have that first challenge of fixing some obscure problem, your going to be
> in for a real eye-opener.
>
> > 2. Which is the best exam to do first.
>
> I started with the non-SQL exams, Win2k Server 215, and Network
> Infrastructure 216. Then I did SQL Admin 228 and finally Design 229. I
> have heard if you are more of a programmer it is best to take the design
> first, whereas if you are better at Sys Admin things, take the SQL Admin
> test first. If you don't have a lot of experience with Win2k, then I
would
> suggest taking that exam first. The other elective you can take whenever
> you like.
>
> > Any help would be most appreciated.
> >
> > Simon.
>
> Good luck,
> Matt
>
>

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