Server 2003 - Virtual PC 2004 <- doing the exercises using this

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Virtual PC 2004 <- doing the exercises using this

ADRENALINE

2004-01-21, 6:35 am

This is important:
Vmware has disabling VMware's own DHCP and NAT service option. i didnt see such option in Virtual PC.Might this cause lots of problems like the virtual client xp machine ,not seeing the DHCP server of the virtual server machine? Please, somebody with knowledge of Virtual PC, reply me. This will make my decision either to use Virtual pc or do i need 2x priced Vmware just because it has disabling DHCP server and NAT service options..

Simply put,somebody using Virtual PC:
Do you have any problem connecting the virtual client to the virtual server's DHCP server service and DNS/NAT service?

Thanks already

jeff_j_black

2004-01-21, 10:55 am

No, I have not had this as an issue. I have been able to design subnets, routing, DHCP, etc. under Virtual PC v5.x. If you have a good design and know how to operate the program, you will not have an issue.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-21, 11:09 am

quote:
Originally posted by jeff_j_black
No, I have not had this as an issue. I have been able to design subnets, routing, DHCP, etc. under Virtual PC v5.x. If you have a good design and know how to operate the program, you will not have an issue.

thats great then.

to start off, i have installed 3 virtual win 2003 servers , as i thought "2 might be domain controllers doing replication, and 1 standalone".
i will also install a virtual win98 as a client for having a reason to run WINS on win 2003 server.
i have real world, non virtual XP running all these.
I want to start off. What shall i do? i mean i guess as networking adapter, i should choose my own real world physical adapter on the domain controller. is this right? what else shall i select on other domain controller,stand alone server,and win98? should i choose NAT? or should i choose my own real world adapter in all these, and as a SECOND adapter,i should choose NAT?

i am not sure. Please help. From then on,the others will write in the book so i can configure easily. But till then i need to know how to configure networking on virtual pc.

and hey if you have any other OSes you recommend me install,just tell me because i want to finish installing stuff asap and get back to studying.

as i said,i installed 3 servers. and 3 different virtual hdds,named (ent1=windows 2003 ent server 1):
ent1hdd
ent2hdd
ent3hdd

For practising RAID hdds,on ent1 virtual machine, can i choose ent2 and ent3 as hdd2 and hdd3 on the virtual machine settings and do RAID or shall i create another hdds for it? i dont have a big 120 gb thing i have 20+20=40 gb hdds ,so i wanted to ask this too.

Thanks already you are really helping me very much

jeff_j_black

2004-01-21, 11:53 am

If you want to include your host in the virtual network, then you are going to want to associate your virtual network with the NIC in your host. I have installed a second NIC in my host to segregate my production network from my virtual one. This second NIC needs to be plugged into a hub to make it active though.

I have not configured the NAT function for the virtual network, so I can not comment on it, other that it did not fit my needs that are similar to yours.

I have not tried using extra virtual hard drives as RAID on a virtual machine. I imagine it can be done, but I had already worked with that seperately. Let me know if that works.

As far as what machine o/s to load you will likely need NT 4.0 server(s) at some point to do AD migration/upgrade. But it may not be a good time to configure them now as you will have better knowledge later as to how you want to design your domains etc. and NT doesn't allow for demotion from DC to member server.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-21, 12:05 pm

quote:
Originally posted by jeff_j_black
If you want to include your host in the virtual network, then you are going to want to associate your virtual network with the NIC in your host. I have installed a second NIC in my host to segregate my production network from my virtual one. This second NIC needs to be plugged into a hub to make it active though.

I have not configured the NAT function for the virtual network, so I can not comment on it, other that it did not fit my needs that are similar to yours.

I have not tried using extra virtual hard drives as RAID on a virtual machine. I imagine it can be done, but I had already worked with that seperately. Let me know if that works.

As far as what machine o/s to load you will likely need NT 4.0 server(s) at some point to do AD migration/upgrade. But it may not be a good time to configure them now as you will have better knowledge later as to how you want to design your domains etc. and NT doesn't allow for demotion from DC to member server.

Can i connect to the non virtual XP client and assign this XP client a private ip address? it doesnt sound possible,so do i have to install virtual a xp client or is it possible to connect to non virtual XP ,running virtual pc and assign it a private ip as well (like 192.168.*.*)? If so, how?

"If you want to include your host in the virtual network, then you are going to want to associate your virtual network with the NIC in your host. I have installed a second NIC in my host to segregate my production network from my virtual one. This second NIC needs to be plugged into a hub to make it active though. "
^^
i dont understand. you mean i should choose adapter 1 on the virtual machine as my real world physical adapter to allow internet communication on it? but then it means it can connect to internet directly,without configuring a private ip address for it (like we would do in normal as we had 2 computers and want to give the other,internet access too)? isnt making a private ip address on the virtual machine,proper for doing the exercises in the book? o

"I have installed a second NIC in my host to segregate my production network from my virtual one. This second NIC needs to be plugged into a hub to make it active though. "
^^
do i -have to- do this to do all the exercises in the book or is this not needed?

Simply put,In order to communicate all virtual machines with one another and for them to connect to my non-virtual real world xp,what should i do? Like what should i configure as adapter 1,adapter 2 in virtual machines and what should i configure in non-virtual xp client so it can communicate? And everything else needed..
Please tell them in terms of configuring in virtual pc as english aint my first language.

I know it will be pain to write all now but as i said before all i need to know is this ,and then once virtual pc config is done,i can configure everything as it writes in the book.

there are 2 licensing modes
1) "per device or per user"
2) "per server"
which one should i select to do all the exercises in my virtual machines?

For final,do the exams cover AD migration/upgrade so i have to install NT 4.0 too (if so, nt 4 server or nt 4 server enterprise? like to do all exercises in mcse 2003, u need win2003 enterprise) or you mean i just may have it installed for extra knowledge? Then do i need to install Win2000 server as extra knowledge too to do an upgrade from it ?
If the exams dont cover these, i may postpone these things to do after the certification..

Thanks

jeff_j_black

2004-01-21, 4:42 pm

It would probably be best to have fixed addressing on your host.

In VPC 'File' 'Preferences' I have 'Virtual Switch' associated with my host pc NIC.

In VPC 'Settings' for each of the virtual machines, under 'Networking' I have 'Virtual Switch' 'Local, host and external'.

This will let all PCs, virtual and host act as one network. You have to have the network design worked out according to how/if you connect to the Internet and what degree of interaction you want the virtual network to have with your real network. Hence, my use of a second NIC, which is not at all neccessary, except to allow me to isolate the virtual network via hardware, if I choose to. You do not need this.

Per server is usually easier to manage as far as licensing goes in the lab.

I'm sure to some degree you will have upgrade/interoperate type questions, when and where I cannot predict, but they are out there.

If you are just starting out, you may not get the 'perfect' lab from the beginning. That is actually better. I cannot count the number of times I have installed various o/s in my lab. Virtualization takes a lot of that out of the picture, but initially you should get your own feel for it by doing it again and again. Don't like your network design? Tear it down and put it up. This is not a race and actually finishing fast can be your biggest mistake. The next biggest mistake is not to make any mistakes in your lab. You learn a lot more from fixing things than having everything go perfect from start to finish.

I wish you well.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-22, 4:50 am

uhh
i have latest VPC 5.3.582 and it doesnt have "file preferences". instead, it has "file options". and it doesnt have 'Virtual Switch' option in "file options"

In VPC 'Settings' for each of the virtual machines, under 'Networking' I dont have:
'Virtual Switch' 'Local, host and external'.

Instead i have:
"local only,nvidia nforce adapter and shared networking (NAT)". Thats all. Nothing named "virtual switch" either.. With saying host,you mean the real adapter nvidia i guess and with saying external i dont get what you mean.

Which ones should i choose for 1st ,2nd adapter etc? What should i do?

Do the exams cover AD migration/upgrade so i have to install NT 4.0 and Win2000 too ? Surely i will install other servers /clients if i ever need later, but i dont know if the exams cover AD migration/upgrade from nt 4 and 2000 too so i had to ask..

Also i am told " If you use 3 servers
then go for per user.
Per user allows each licensed user to connect to multiple servers. Per
server allows as many users as you have licenses for to connect to that
server." "I'd go with per user... you can always upgrade later... "
Though u said per server..

Thanks

jeff_j_black

2004-01-22, 11:00 am

As I do not yet have the VPC 2004 version, I really can't provide technical support for it. Using this virtual software requires a requisite understanding of your environment and general networking. I gave you the settings I have consistently had success with, maybe you can find some correlation with what you have at hand, but as I say, I really don't have the time to provide support for the product version I do not have. Make sure to review the documentation you have for the product and go the the vendor site or vendor newsgroups for support of that version. This activity is a good part of the learning process, as you will have to quickly assimilate documentation and execute based on the information you gain. In a sense, I'd like to do that for you but think it better that you do it for yourself.

As far as licensing, yes there are merits to both, and in the real world where you are paying for those licenses, you would have to make that call. In the lab where you typically don't have 100s to 1000s of users connecting to a server, it may just be easier to manager per server. Your studies will indeed cover licensing at some point. You actually have a chance to change your licensing mode, which might be part of the exercise.

Start looking at the book for the exam you choose to work on first. The table of contents for that book may indicate what scenarios you will work through. If you see a topic on upgrading, then you know that will come up. You should also be very familiar with the exam topics, from the Microsoft Training and Certification website. What scenarios you should be prepared to work through are clearly detailed there for each exam.

There comes a point where you will learn more from doing than asking, if you're stumped and just can't get past something, let us know. I can read the menu for you, but you won't know what is good until you taste the food. Like I said previously, your lab won't be perfect right out and that is part of the learning process. Jump in and get started.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-23, 11:48 am

i understand..
i think microsoft just plugged out the virtual switch option.
There is something named "Microsoft Loopback Adapter" though as a network protocol. Using this,i still dont think this can give the virtual switch option u got in connectix virtual pc.

Yes,i looked at newsgroups,help files,microsoft.com,knowledge base and nope there is no virtual switch option anymore.

I guess i better go and get Connectix Virtual PC 5.2 and then go pay to Microsoft as i would do if i bought Microsoft VPC 2004.

Then everything will be great i guess because you say with your connectix version ,you can do anything,right? and thats what i need

What do u think?

jeff_j_black

2004-01-23, 12:25 pm

I can only theorize that you would use the nic on your host as the option, that would seem to indicate that you would be connecting your virtual lan to your host. I am happy to answer questions, I just like to stick to stuff I am familiar with. I will be getting the upgrade to 2004, as part of my license, I get it for postage and handling. I just have not ordered it yet.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-23, 12:41 pm

ok yes,in the VPC's settings, i chose the adapter on my real no virtual machine.

What else shall i do? What shall i configure in the VPC? 192.168.0.2 as ip and 192.168.0.1 as default gateway? but there is no such 192.168.0.1 in my real computer.
and if i choose dhcp on the VPC,still,doesnt work.

What shall i choose both on the real comp and virtual comp?

i want to also use the microsoft loopback adapter protocol on xp, as it puts a loopback adapter just like there is a second adapter on ur pc. i guess that will do the isolation u were telling me before. any info on this?

sigh..3 days and i still couldnt start studying yet :\

jeff_j_black

2004-01-23, 12:50 pm

This is part of the learning...

When I started my studies, the first thing I did was to build my own computer for the first time. Now I have more computers than I actually use, a network, high speed internet, RRAS server to get into home network from elsewhere and so on. This is actually part of the learning experience and you should value it equally. Likely, you will see virtualization in the workplace sometime soon!

ADRENALINE

2004-01-23, 1:02 pm

i think thats just wasting time because i am only asking about virtual pc, what i need to learn is mcse 2003. not virtual pc. Though, i am trying to learn virtual pc as well. and i couldnt find any info on newsgroups,microsoft.com, and help file.
u didnt say anything about:
"ok yes,in the VPC's settings, i chose the adapter on my real no virtual machine.

What else shall i do? What shall i configure in the VPC? 192.168.0.2 as ip and 192.168.0.1 as default gateway? but there is no such 192.168.0.1 in my real computer.
and if i choose dhcp on the VPC,still,doesnt work.

What shall i choose both on the real comp and virtual comp? "

?

jeff_j_black

2004-01-23, 1:27 pm

We would have to start with how you connect to the internet on your host machine. How does your NIC get it's address now? This is a situation where a second NIC would come in handy, because you could just set it to work with the virtual side, without messing with the real side. NAT may be the best choice, until you have more specifics.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-23, 3:01 pm

it gets its address directly now as its the only adapter connected to the net.

i could get internet working on the virtual machine with doing this:
1)unselecting TCP/IP protocol from my nonvirtual physical adapter
2) setting dhcp on virtual machine.

now fine, the virtual machine can connect to the net,but ups , i lost internet on my real machine..this is what u r trying to tell me i guess.

Also,when it comes to this exercise,how am i gonna make these act like,like i gave dns and dhcp & routing services on this win2003 virtual server from which i put the internet connection. Ok, and then i want to give the routing NAT service using win 2003's NAT service, yes, how am i gonna give the NAT service to the real world XP? there is no adapter left in XP!! is this not possible using this way ,thus,only way of doing such exercise on my real world XP client, is, running real world XP again on virtual machine and set a second adapter?

But someone told me something like i can fix this with microsoft loopback adapter. do you know anything about this? because microsoft.com knowledge base has absolutely -nothing- about it..

i found this on net only:
"If you want to have host/guest communication, simply use the Microsoft Loopback Adapter solution."
But how? i try to enable it to write 192.168.0.1 and machine crashes. and when i write, it just doesnt work.

Sounds like microsoft loopback adapter will resolve anything but i dont know anything about it. i searched, i still cant find..

jeff_j_black

2004-01-23, 3:51 pm

Correct, removing TCP/IP from your host (real machine) LAN connection will disconnect it from the Internet. Not good.

In my virtual lab, DHCP, DNS and other network services are only used within the virtual network. My host has a fixed address, but that is because it is behind a router. The router gets its address from my ISP on the public side and has an address 192.168.1.1 on the private side. So my host machine has the address 192.168.1.2, my virtual servers have addresses 192.168.1.x (fixed addresses on servers) and clients get DHCP. All clients point to 192.168.1.1 as the gateway. My host has my ISP DNS server addresses configured on its connection. My virtual servers use my ISP DNS addresses as 'Forwarders' to resolve internet addresses for my virtual clients. My virtual clients point to the virtual server for DNS.

You may consider using Internet Connection Sharing on your host ISP connection. This is not particular to the virtual network, it is a property of your internet connection on your host. Again, this is reliant on how you connect to the internet, which I am not informed of your particular details. Then all of your virtual clients would use your hosts ICS adapter as the gateway/DNS etc. I can email you a rough sketch of my network, but it may or may not be applicable to your situation, given that I am behind a router using DSL.

The Loopback adapter is essentially a null connection and is always asigned an address 127.0.0.1. You use this to test the TCP/IP stack. It will not provide any communication capability. Yes the loopback adapter gets pretty upset when you mess with its address.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-23, 4:08 pm

you told me before that i could do all the practices without a second adapter.
but this situation now sounds like i do need a second adapter and a hub.. more investment.its hard to get equipments in my country as $ is valuable here *sigh*

i am sending my mail address in the private msg

ADRENALINE

2004-01-24, 11:45 am

good news good news

remember the first msg i sent to the forum telling i got 2 pcs?
the 2. comp doesnt have a hdd but i remembered that the 2. pc has a diskette on it which has one diskette router-linux is on

the 2. hddless comp connects to the net by 1st adapter.
2nd adapter on hddless comp is wired to my 1st comp
1st adapter in 2nd comp= internet address
2nd adapter in 2nd comp= 192.168.0.1

the adapter in 1st comp running xp and running the virtual machines = 192.168.0.2

and the virtual machine on 1st comp is connected to the 1st comp's adapter, using 192.168.0.3

now the 1st comp can access the net, also the virtual machine

yay

just wanted to be sure, i can do all exercises like this (routing,dhcp,nat,subnetting, etc i mean everything) ,yes?

Thanks for everything, i couldnt do much without ur help. Noone would tell me or it would take a few weeks more for me to discover i need 2 adapters for exercises.
Take care,

jeff_j_black

2004-01-24, 3:12 pm

Good news! Sorry I had not replied to your Private Message yet. My work is 130 miles from my home so on Fridays, I go home and try to spend my precious time with the family. But using a router is the best solution for your situation. That way your host and virtuals can be on the same address scheme. Good luck and enjoy getting everything going.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-25, 5:31 am

its no prob

"But using a router is the best solution for your situation."

sorry i couldnt get you. you mean what i told you about that i now got a linux one diskette router is the best solution?

and i can do every exercise now ,right?

jeff_j_black

2004-01-25, 10:30 am

Yes, if you have both host and virtuals on the internet, then you should be in good shape!

ADRENALINE

2004-01-25, 11:14 am

great.

well uh oh,a new prob.. : it starts telling the it cant find the virtual driver for the virtual machine,advising me to reinstall vpc. i did reinstall,and still the virtual machine cant have internet access. whats wrong?

ADRENALINE

2004-01-25, 1:10 pm

wait i've done it with system restore.

everything is back fine now and i gotta start studying for MCSE 2003

ADRENALINE

2004-01-25, 1:11 pm

wait i got over it. i 've restored the system with system restore.
everything is back fine now

i will start studying mcse 2003 tomorrow morning.

take care ,thanks again for everything..

ADRENALINE

2004-01-27, 4:09 am

i sent you a private msg but private msg doesnt work on the forum so we need to communicate by mail
here's mine:
%zecured%@%zecured%.com
send me a test mail so i can get ur mail too.
take care

jeff_j_black

2004-01-27, 2:25 pm

PM is working. For your security, you might consider editing out your email from this post. I did reply to your PM, check for your answer there. I would prefer to post questions and answers here for others to benefit if possible.

Luchnia

2004-01-27, 4:25 pm

Yeah, you guys post here for us wannabes to learn. I have VirtualPC and VMware here. I have used VMware some but I did have some quirks with it. I did load several systems on it at the time, but am just getting ready to set up another server and load several virtual servers between three physical servers and six various desktop situations.

I plan to mimick a reasonably large enterprise situation if possible with dummy accounts, groups, email, multiple domains,intranet, extranet, and so on. The virtual machines seem to be a bit ram intensive so I think that on two physical servers with around 512 ram should be pretty good setup.

If I remember correct each "virtual machine" on VMware took a minimum of 100m memory. Not sure since it has been quite a while since I played with that. I remember VMware taking me quite a bit of time to learn the bugs about it, but that was about 3 years ago.

I worked for a corporation that had approx 21,000 employees and I was rather amazed at the way the network was set up. We went through an XP migration of 18,000+ desktops and it was definitely a wild ride. All of that was done with only two images!

I am trying a bunch of different setups in my home lab now. Virtual machines seems to be the killer way to lab this stuff and not have so much physical connections nor as much money involved. I am tired of dragging cables and boxes around-hooking up and tearing down. That gets old quick. I make sure I have several physical setups for exacting "real-world" problems. Additionally, I don't want to hose up the network I already have in place.

These post are great because we can pick up much from the experiences of others.

Peace.

jeff_j_black

2004-01-27, 7:22 pm

I agree. I definitely got tired of having to reconfigure a bunch of boxes to do different scenarios. It is just easier to make a copy of one of my virtual machines and proceed to trash it.

Creating 1,000 User Accounts

You might like this for stocking up your active directory with users...

jeff_j_black

2004-01-28, 12:59 pm

ADRENALINE

if your PM is not working, you may have exceeded your inbox limit. Both the items in your inbox and sent items count agains that limit, so you might have to go in and delete old messages in both places.

ADRENALINE

2004-01-28, 1:25 pm

oh ok its working.

it just doesnt let me see when i click the link i get to my mail ,saying "you got a new prvt msg"

now i just discovered i have to click "profile" to see

Luchnia

2004-01-29, 9:13 am

Wow...virtualpc is ram intesive. I read on MS VPC site that one man had 26 oses on a VPC system!

Well, here is what I basically did so far. I loaded another box with 2kpro for the host, 768m ram, 950 amd, 120g hard drive for plenty of virtual machines. I split the hard drive in three partitions so I could play with my VPC diskpart images.The host pc won't need much if I use my VPC for most of what I am doing. I am really curious as to how Novell and 2k3 will interact through virtual machines.

Created 3 virtual machines (have not loaded each os yet), Server 2003, Novell 5.2, and xp pro. Novell requires a minimum of 256m ram., 128m for server 2003 (I bumped that up to 180), and xp 128m. I have Terminal serviced in to see if I can do the entire thing via my laptop. I already TS my other servers. This ought to be fun! I plan to leave DNS, DHCP, and WINS on my other physical server, that way once I am done, I can just disconnect the VPC system and wipe the drive. That should keep my normal network server safe and operating normally.

I will load the oses and see how it goes. It was a piece of cake to load VPC and much simpler than VMWare, but won't really know until the oses are loaded. Any ideas or advice?

As the saga continues...

jeff_j_black

2004-01-29, 12:02 pm

The only issue I see is that the running virtual machines combined allocated RAM plus the hosts running needs cannot exceed physical RAM. So if my host (512 Meg RAM) is committed to 150Meg and I have two Windows 2003 Servers at 128 Meg each, I'm okay, but if I launch another one VPC will pause all the machines to launch the third one, because that would put it ove the 512 physical RAM. I will be installing a total of 1 Gig at home soon, but at work I am stuck with 512 Meg.

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