alt.certification.mcse - The downfall of I.T.

Author

The downfall of I.T.

Studying Hard

2004-01-16, 10:25 am

I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
industry and wait out the low tide. This is what I have done. I was
a LAN Admin for 4 years. I lost my job when the company closed the
office in my city. The big local paper was jammed full of about 2 or
3 I.T. jobs every Sunday so that'll give you some clue as to the job
market in my area. After 6 mo of searching, I accepted an entry level
position on a help desk. I've been here for almost a year and I'm
ready to move on. Here's where I need advice. Right now my resume
shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
titles. Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
"depression"?
thx all

JBS

2004-01-16, 11:25 am

Anyone hiring in this industry knows what the last few years have been like.
Going to a functional or combination resume is a good move. What I've been
doing is taking classes and expanding my skills set while waiting for the
next big break. We have a community college that has some good, hands on,
CIS courses at reasonable prices and you probably have one near you too.
They offer a good opportunity to tune up your Unix, Java, HTML, or other
skills. I just saw a job announcement looking for a L2 help desk technician
with Web Design/HTML skills.

I believe that there are a few areas in the IT industry such as Info
Assurance/Security that should show some growth. I think a lot of what we
are seeing with offshoring of IT service jobs is almost a fad. You just
can't expect an MBA to really have a clue. They go to bed with dreams of
$5K a year SysAdmins dancing in their little heads and they just got to have
a piece. They are like a bunch of fuk'n lemmings. All we need is a couple
of well publicized incidents of "offshore" workers committing identify theft
or computer fraud and "at least" some of the work will come back to the U.S.

Good luck with your job search.

John

HouseVod

2004-01-16, 11:25 am

My personal opinion,

You need twice the qualifications and experience to get half the wage.

Have a look at www.cramsession.com and they give overviews of jobs and what
quals seem to be good to get in at entry, mid and high level, very eye
opening in some positions.

From what I have seen around with jobs advertised security, advanced web and
SQL seem to be still in reasonable demand, but they want certs and
preferably experience as well.

Good luck, we need it. I am having to double my certs and bring it all up to
date just to get beack into where I left 2 years ago.

--
House - Sat in a call centre on minimum wage but using my time to update my
certs, done 4 exams in 4 months and plan to go further!

MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, A+, Network +

Dont e-mail me, I dont exist!

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
> has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
> some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
> and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
> industry and wait out the low tide. This is what I have done. I was
> a LAN Admin for 4 years. I lost my job when the company closed the
> office in my city. The big local paper was jammed full of about 2 or
> 3 I.T. jobs every Sunday so that'll give you some clue as to the job
> market in my area. After 6 mo of searching, I accepted an entry level
> position on a help desk. I've been here for almost a year and I'm
> ready to move on. Here's where I need advice. Right now my resume
> shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
> embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
> showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
> my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
> maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
> titles. Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
> "depression"?
> thx all

Wayne

2004-01-16, 1:27 pm

I worked for a well known ISP for the last 5 1/2 years and watched
progressively more of our support and IT staff outsourced to places like
Manilla and India.

As an assistant project manager I dealt daily with mopping up after the
messes the outsourcers created. Every single day I had complaints from
customers and internal staff about the poor quality of the information
provided by them.

The outsourcers simply did not have the skills necessary to do the job the
company was asking them to do in an efficient manner.

But because of the cost savings the company continued to outsource more and
more. It was still cheaper for them even if it took 4-5 contacts to solve a
problem that could have been solved by 1 or 2 contacts from in-house
support.

Identity theft may be the last starw at some point, but I think the first
things that will start to come back to bite companies (like my former
employer) in the butt is the quality of the information and service provided
by these outsourcers. Customers (both internal and external) aren't going
to put up with this stuff for very long.

"JBS" <noone@thisdontwork.net> wrote in message
news:%aTNb.9826$q4.1188@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Anyone hiring in this industry knows what the last few years have been
like.
> Going to a functional or combination resume is a good move. What I've
been
> doing is taking classes and expanding my skills set while waiting for the
> next big break. We have a community college that has some good, hands on,
> CIS courses at reasonable prices and you probably have one near you too.
> They offer a good opportunity to tune up your Unix, Java, HTML, or other
> skills. I just saw a job announcement looking for a L2 help desk
technician
> with Web Design/HTML skills.
>
> I believe that there are a few areas in the IT industry such as Info
> Assurance/Security that should show some growth. I think a lot of what we
> are seeing with offshoring of IT service jobs is almost a fad. You just
> can't expect an MBA to really have a clue. They go to bed with dreams of
> $5K a year SysAdmins dancing in their little heads and they just got to
have
> a piece. They are like a bunch of fuk'n lemmings. All we need is a
couple
> of well publicized incidents of "offshore" workers committing identify
theft
> or computer fraud and "at least" some of the work will come back to the
U.S.
>
> Good luck with your job search.
>
> John
>
>

Rex Tincher

2004-01-16, 2:25 pm

On 16 Jan 2004 06:13:16 -0800, tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com (Studying
Hard) wrote:

<snip>
>Right now my resume
>shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
>embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
>showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
>my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
>maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
>titles.

Employers *hate* functional resumes. They are accustomed to
chronological resumes and that is what they expect to see.

If I was the hiring manager then I would be likely to hire someone
with the traditional format resume, even with a glitch on it, than a
functional resume. Yes, I used to hire people.

>Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
>"depression"?

Use your free-time from your current low-challenge job to update your
certifications and skills. Add a Windows 2000 or 2003 MCSE if you
don't have one already. (I'm working on Win2K MCSE myself while
unemployed.) If you already have those certs then pursue the security
certifications that another poster suggested, or take Cisco classes.

--
Jobs nationwide and especially jobs in Dayton Ohio USA
http://www.tincher.to/

Glarb Shattenstein

2004-01-16, 2:25 pm

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice.

Get out of IT and never look back. There are going to be higher paid
secretaries than your average network admin. Finding a job even as an IT
manager or above is quite a daunting task, even if you have a college degree
and loads of certifications, and even management experience. We're are the
auto workers of this decade. We are dying, and will soon be totally dead
(as a profession). Read alt.computer.consultants and EVERY DAY you will see
20 to 30 fresh stories off of the wire about the latest in IT outsourcing
and work visas for foreigners.

If you want to really stay in IT, get into sales. Some say security is a
good field to enter, but why they think that is immune to outsourcing is
beyond me.

G

Bored of IT

2004-01-16, 8:25 pm

very good advice.

get out of IT. Thats what im doing. I have some great and very exciting
things planned. I don't like the idea of sitting at a monitor all day
growing a fat arse anymore. And neither do i like crawling on my knees in a
suit and tie to fix someones damn computer that they have shoved under a
desk like some piece of discarded trash. Im tired of cubicles. Im tired of
my boss getting $170 / hr for my services while i only get a fraction of
that. Im sick of the uncertainties of contract positions. I dislike
airconditioned server rooms. And im tired of the stupid certification
process where i've wasted so much money on (thank gawd i never actually
payed for any courses)

ccnp,ccdp,mcse+i(nt4),mcse(2k)
,mcsa,mcdba,cca,oca&boredofIT

"Glarb Shattenstein" <shattenstein@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jqWNb.28212$873.595213@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
>
> Get out of IT and never look back. There are going to be higher paid
> secretaries than your average network admin. Finding a job even as an IT
> manager or above is quite a daunting task, even if you have a college
degree
> and loads of certifications, and even management experience. We're are
the
> auto workers of this decade. We are dying, and will soon be totally dead
> (as a profession). Read alt.computer.consultants and EVERY DAY you will
see
> 20 to 30 fresh stories off of the wire about the latest in IT outsourcing
> and work visas for foreigners.
>
> If you want to really stay in IT, get into sales. Some say security is a
> good field to enter, but why they think that is immune to outsourcing is
> beyond me.
>
> G
>
>

Jaythen

2004-01-16, 9:56 pm

I had the same worries as you but a different scenerio. I worked for a company doing tech support for 3 yeras and the company went out of business and bought out. Then I worked 2 years at a pizza place as the area i lived at did not have IT jobs. I studied for my A+ and got it. I quit the pizza place finally and moved to Cincinnati where still, the jobs are low here. But I kept looking and finally got another tech support position that is not as "low end" as many amy assume. It's the best opportunity I've ever had in all of my yeras of working period. ANd hopefully I will move up from here.
So I would say stick with it depending on what area of the country you are in. There's still a few companies who do not want to outsource to Indians or whatever. You just have to look harder or wait it out and find a "lucky break".
As for your work experience, just take more certifications and try to move up and get more responsibility in your current company. I think you are doing the right thing if you plan on staying with IT. I thought I would never get another IT job since I was working in pizza to pay the bills. But it ended up happening. Employers are loyal to those who stay at a job for a period of time as opposed to job hopping. And most employers understand the field now and realistically know that someone is not going to be a sitting duck. They have tod o something to pay the bills, etc, even if it means taking a lower paying job or lower skilled job.
If I can make a comeback after pizza, you can surely make a comeback after a helpdesk job

127.0.0.1

2004-01-17, 10:25 am

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
> has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
> some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
> and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
> industry and wait out the low tide.

this is very simple to answer. if you are single, stick with it.
if you have a family to feed, look for alternatives...

if you stick with it, IT temp companies will get you jobs. if you do good
work, you get to pick which jobs you want. depending on the client, if they
aren't in a highering freeze and you do good work, then you have a good
chance of them highering you after your contract ends.

another alternative: go marry an ugly rich chick. it worked out for a buddy
of mine.

-a|ex

Studying Hard

2004-01-17, 2:25 pm

Jaythen <Jaythen.105rwh@mail.examnotes.net> wrote in message news:<Jaythen.105rwh@mail.examnotes.net>...
> I had the same worries as you but a different scenerio. I worked for a
> company doing tech support for 3 yeras and the company went out of
> business and bought out. Then I worked 2 years at a pizza place as the
> area i lived at did not have IT jobs. I studied for my A+ and got it.
> I quit the pizza place finally and moved to Cincinnati where still, the
> jobs are low here. But I kept looking and finally got another tech
> support position that is not as "low end" as many amy assume. It's the
> best opportunity I've ever had in all of my yeras of working period.
> ANd hopefully I will move up from here.
> So I would say stick with it depending on what area of the country you
> are in. There's still a few companies who do not want to outsource to
> Indians or whatever. You just have to look harder or wait it out and
> find a "lucky break".
> As for your work experience, just take more certifications and try to
> move up and get more responsibility in your current company. I think
> you are doing the right thing if you plan on staying with IT. I
> thought I would never get another IT job since I was working in pizza
> to pay the bills. But it ended up happening. Employers are loyal to
> those who stay at a job for a period of time as opposed to job hopping.
> And most employers understand the field now and realistically know
> that someone is not going to be a sitting duck. They have tod o
> something to pay the bills, etc, even if it means taking a lower paying
> job or lower skilled job.
> If I can make a comeback after pizza, you can surely make a comeback
> after a helpdesk job

>
>
> Jaythen
> Sign up for free daily practice questions at: http://www.QoD.US
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via http://www.examnotes.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this thread: http://www.examnotes.net/article1033022.html

Thank you all very much for your advice, especially you Jaythen. I
also live in Cincinnati. It's funny, but when I first lost my job
last year, I almost took a job delivering pizzas because it paid more
than the first I.T. jobs I was offered. (I was actually offered
$10/hr for a network admin job. Dominoes was paying $12/hr plus tips
to deliver pizzas.) For the past month, I've noticed an avg of 3-6
I.T. jobs in the Career Builder every week. Looks kinda bleak. But
I'm working toward an MCSA (2 tests left)and CCNA and trying to do
what I can to find a job with responsibilities more suitable to me or
finding some consulting work on the side. I wish everyone the best of
luck.
thx,
T

Frederic

2004-01-17, 10:24 pm

I would keep the experience chronological but I would make a skill based
summary at the beginning
--
Frederic
MCP (Windows 2000 Professional and Windows 2000 Directory Services)
IT Project+, i-Net+, CIW Associate, A+
member of: CompTIA-ITPro, HDI, IETF, ISOC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401160613.2f57e9eb@posting.google.com...
> I would like to ask everyone's opinion/advice. In recent years, there
> has been an obvious downturn in I.T. Massive job loss and paycuts for
> some. I have read many articles talking of people losing their jobs
> and taking lower level jobs at half the pay just to stay in the
> industry and wait out the low tide. This is what I have done. I was
> a LAN Admin for 4 years. I lost my job when the company closed the
> office in my city. The big local paper was jammed full of about 2 or
> 3 I.T. jobs every Sunday so that'll give you some clue as to the job
> market in my area. After 6 mo of searching, I accepted an entry level
> position on a help desk. I've been here for almost a year and I'm
> ready to move on. Here's where I need advice. Right now my resume
> shows 4 years as an Admin and the last year as a grunt. I am a bit
> embarrased by this and I believe it destroys my entire resume by
> showing such a drastic downturn in my career. I'm currently changing
> my resume from a chronological format to a more functional design so
> maybe my accomplishments will be noticed over the timeline of my job
> titles. Can anyone offer any more advice on recovering from my career
> "depression"?
> thx all

JBS

2004-01-18, 12:25 am

"Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:7kag005hja7ssp65d8s3471v7
egh4b59cu@4ax.com...
> On 16 Jan 2004 06:13:16 -0800, tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com (Studying
> Hard) wrote:
>
> Employers *hate* functional resumes. They are accustomed to
> chronological resumes and that is what they expect to see.
>
I understand what you are saying but most of the resumes I've seen lately
use a combination style format. They start with a strong objective and
background/skills summary at the beginning and then go to a chronology for
the experience portion. You need something that's going to grab the readers
attention in the first few inches of paper.

Skip

2004-01-18, 11:25 am

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:34:15 GMT, "JBS" <noone@thisdontwork.net>
wrote:

>
>"Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
> news:7kag005hja7ssp65d8s3471v7
egh4b59cu@4ax.com...
>I understand what you are saying but most of the resumes I've seen lately
>use a combination style format. They start with a strong objective and
>background/skills summary at the beginning and then go to a chronology for
>the experience portion. You need something that's going to grab the readers
>attention in the first few inches of paper.
>

Lumping "Employers" into a single pigeon hole, is not a productive
thing to do in my opinion. They are human beings, just like "normal"
people, each with their own preferences and styles.

The more books and seminars I read/attended by the "gurus" of job
hunting, the more I became convinced that they are mostly flying by
the seat of their pants, simply echoing their own personal experiences
and style. I.e. they are a Tower of Babble to a significant extent.

Regarding chronological/functional style resumes, I would suggest that
if you are concerned about age discrimination in IT and you have
-lots- of experience, you may want to consider this when deciding
between the two styles.

For my personal story, I am 55 years old with 20 years experience, I
went with a functional style, which I tailored based on the
company/job I was applying for. Since this was my first time job
hunting, it is hard for me to say if this was the best approach, but I
did manage to land a decent job.

I think the most important part is landing an interview with a group
of folks who you "click" with on a personal level.

----------------------------

We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven

- the late Warren Zevon. 'Keep me in your heart for awhile'

=?iso-8859-1?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=

2004-01-19, 12:27 pm

Studying Hard wrote:
>
> Thank you all very much for your advice, especially you Jaythen. I
> also live in Cincinnati. It's funny, but when I first lost my job
> last year, I almost took a job delivering pizzas because it paid more
> than the first I.T. jobs I was offered. (I was actually offered
> $10/hr for a network admin job. Dominoes was paying $12/hr plus tips
> to deliver pizzas.)

You should consider delivering chili! I know I miss the Cinci style chili.

I'd give you a REALLY big tip if you'd deliver some of that heavenly chili
to me in Florida.

--
Fris "I'm not kidding" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

Rex Tincher

2004-01-19, 3:26 pm

Bill

2004-01-19, 6:26 pm

Where at in FL, I'm in Tampa

--
William "Bill" South
HOP Online
wsouth@verizon.net
"Frisbee® MCNGP" <oncebitten@twiceshy.com> wrote in message
news:buh1ne$hg0rp$1@ID-123564.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Studying Hard wrote:
>
> You should consider delivering chili! I know I miss the Cinci style
chili.
>
> I'd give you a REALLY big tip if you'd deliver some of that heavenly chili
> to me in Florida.
>
> --
> Fris "I'm not kidding" bee® MCNGP #13
>
> http://www.mcngp.tk
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
> Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help
>

=?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=

2004-01-20, 10:26 am

Bill wrote:
> Where at in FL, I'm in Tampa

I'm in Gainesville. There's probably Skyline Chili there in Tampa. I know
there was one in Orlando at one time, but not any more. I have to settle
for buying the Skyline frozen chili at Publix, but only when my wife lets
me. That stuff's too chock full of sodium, so she only allows me to eat it
on special days, like birthdays. If I could, I'd open a franchise here in
Gainesville. Problem is, I'd probably eat all the profits.

--
Fris "Cheaper to just move to Cincinnati" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

David BlandIII

2004-01-22, 4:26 am

Damn dude. You're depressing me! Am I starting up the wrong path??????
--
David Bland

"Bored of IT" <boredofit@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:WK%Nb.7325$xm.347818@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> very good advice.
>
> get out of IT. Thats what im doing. I have some great and very exciting
> things planned. I don't like the idea of sitting at a monitor all day
> growing a fat arse anymore. And neither do i like crawling on my knees in
a
> suit and tie to fix someones damn computer that they have shoved under a
> desk like some piece of discarded trash. Im tired of cubicles. Im tired of
> my boss getting $170 / hr for my services while i only get a fraction of
> that. Im sick of the uncertainties of contract positions. I dislike
> airconditioned server rooms. And im tired of the stupid certification
> process where i've wasted so much money on (thank gawd i never actually
> payed for any courses)
>
> ccnp,ccdp,mcse+i(nt4),mcse(2k)
,mcsa,mcdba,cca,oca&boredofIT
>
>
> "Glarb Shattenstein" <shattenstein@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:jqWNb.28212$873.595213@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
IT[color=blue]
> degree
> the
dead[color=blue]
> see
outsourcing[color=blue]
a[color=blue]
>
>

Rex Tincher

2004-01-22, 12:26 pm

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
<dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:

>Damn dude. You're depressing me! Am I starting up the wrong path??????

The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(

--
Computer network administrator available for work
in the Dayton, Ohio USA area. BS CS, MCSE, and twenty
years of experience in the computer industry.
See my resume at http://www.tincher.to/resume.htm

Bryan

2004-01-22, 5:26 pm

"Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr97
99vdu0rav@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
> <dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(
>
> --
> Computer network administrator available for work
> in the Dayton, Ohio USA area. BS CS, MCSE, and twenty
> years of experience in the computer industry.
> See my resume at http://www.tincher.to/resume.htm

And we can all thank the corporations and their exclusive focus on the
bottom line, cutting payrolls and benefits. Outsource enough jobs and there
will not be anyone that will be able to afford their products and the
backlash begins.

Bryan

Mike Trozzo

2004-01-23, 7:25 pm

"Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr97
99vdu0rav@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
> <dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(
>

And you can bet they'll be H1-B'd to death in the very near future.

David BlandIII

2004-01-24, 12:25 am

I'll tell you Tex, my butt must be cursed. Like your area, one could throw a
dart at a paper and hit an opening for Nurses. It seems(seemed) to be the
most secure thing going. So in 1994 I got my RN degree from my local
community college. This was just around the time of the Gulf War. What seems
to have happened is that a lot of ladies who's husbands went off to the
Gulf, rushed back into the field because suddenly there were no positions
available when it was graduation time for me! I couldn't believe it. Me and
three of my classmates had to go nearly 50 miles out of town just to find a
"part-time" nursing gig!!??? I was flabbergasted. So there I was making $15
an hour but working only 20 hours a week. Useless! So after nearly a year, I
left the field. It just wasn't me. Nursing's for women. And as soon as I got
out, guess what happened? Jobs magically opened back up again. Go figure?

--
David Bland

"Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr97
99vdu0rav@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
> <dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(
>
> --
> Computer network administrator available for work
> in the Dayton, Ohio USA area. BS CS, MCSE, and twenty
> years of experience in the computer industry.
> See my resume at http://www.tincher.to/resume.htm

zenner

2004-01-24, 11:25 am

Already are, aren't they? I heard that most nurses are from coming over from
the Philippines?

"Mike Trozzo" <root@localhost.com> wrote in message
news:busbc2$ll8$03$1@news.t-online.com...
:
: "Rex Tincher" <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
: news:m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr97
99vdu0rav@4ax.com...
: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
: > <dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:
: >
: > >Damn dude. You're depressing me! Am I starting up the wrong path??????
: >
: > The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(
: >
:
: And you can bet they'll be H1-B'd to death in the very near future.
:
:

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Studying Hard

2004-01-27, 5:26 pm

Frisbee® MCNGP <oncebitten@twiceshy.com> wrote in message news:<buh1ne$hg0rp$1@ID-123564.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Studying Hard wrote:
>
> You should consider delivering chili! I know I miss the Cinci style chili.
>
> I'd give you a REALLY big tip if you'd deliver some of that heavenly chili
> to me in Florida.

You put me and my family up for a week and I just might make that trip!

Studying Hard

2004-01-27, 5:26 pm

Rex Tincher <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message news:< m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr9799vdu
0rav@4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:41:59 GMT, "David BlandIII"
> <dbland3@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> The only secure jobs around here (Ohio) are in nursing :-(

Where I've seen 3-5 I.T jobs on a weekly basis, there are easily 3-5
pages of jobs in healthcare. Time for a career change? Can
healthcare be outsourced to India?

news reader

2004-01-27, 5:26 pm

"Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73ff10d6.0401271329.4dfd7cbb@posting.google.com...
> Where I've seen 3-5 I.T jobs on a weekly basis, there are easily 3-5
> pages of jobs in healthcare. Time for a career change? Can
> healthcare be outsourced to India?

Doctors are already in on L1 and H-1B visas. X-Rays are being read by
radiologists in India. Yes, it is already happening.

One word if you want a job in America they can't outsource (easily anyway):
SALES!

kyfunguy

2004-01-28, 10:25 am

"news reader" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:e0BRb.116991$873.2120820@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Studying Hard" <tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:73ff10d6.0401271329.4dfd7cbb@posting.google.com...
>
> Doctors are already in on L1 and H-1B visas. X-Rays are being read by
> radiologists in India. Yes, it is already happening.
>
> One word if you want a job in America they can't outsource (easily
anyway):
> SALES!
>

But... who are you going to sell to... if all the jobs are overseas..? Can't
sell something when the people have no money to buy.....

I suggest the American people make this Presidetial election about
security... and not just the kind about keeping people from blowing up our
buildings... but also keeping jobs here in the U.S.A. It's about time the
American citizens spoke up, and said no more. No more outsourcing of jobs.
No more alowing people in who will work for slave labor wages, and then use
services paid for (with our tax dollars) by citizens who now find themselves
out of a job.

I'd rather talk to a tech suport person who speaks AMERICAN english, rather
then broken english (with a forien accent ) any day. Is that racist? Well,
if protecting one's house is racist... then so be it.

JBS

2004-01-28, 1:26 pm

"kyfunguy" <kyfunguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:N5QRb.362$6r1.11425@news.uswest.net...
>
<snipped>
>
> But... who are you going to sell to... if all the jobs are overseas..?
Can't
> sell something when the people have no money to buy.....
>
....and finally, the punch line. Henry Ford understood the concept that your
workers are also your customers. All these jobs that are outsourced
overseas generate minimal sales for U.S. industry (IT as well as other
sectors). They don't generate taxes that help maintain the services that
U.S. governments at various levels provide. I just watched one local city
lay off half of their police force because they don't have the money to pay
their salaries. The money most local communities receive from state and
Federal governments has dried up... because... tax revenues shrank while
spending for anti-terror, homeland security, war, etc., grew. At the same
time the Federal government is cutting taxes and borrowing through their
teeth, the State government has increased sales taxes and every other fee
they can. My Federal income taxes dropped but my overall tax bill is about
the same.

I've been a conservative for most of my adult life, but I don't believe that
you can count on the Bush regime to fix these problems. They are deep in
the pockets of U.S. business and apparently living in a fantasy world. They
aren't going to do anything that pisses off their buddies. Bush cuts
corporate taxes and the jobs that is supposed to create are all going
overseas. Rather than acknowledge there is a problem, he complains that the
statistics are unfair. I believe we are getting a good lesson in what
happens when trickle down economics fail. Just a few years ago everyone was
talking about the emergence of the information driven economy. What happens
when information becomes the most important product and the American worker
has no place in the industry?

I'm done whining now.

John E. Jaku-Hing

2004-02-06, 10:26 am

tim_mclean_jm@hotmail.com (Studying Hard) wrote in message news:<73ff10d6.0401271329.4dfd7cbb@posting.google.com>...
> Rex Tincher <tinc@dnaco.netREMOVETHIS> wrote in message news:< m0uv009hg3n19edh8vmvinr9799vdu
0rav@4ax.com>...
>
> Where I've seen 3-5 I.T jobs on a weekly basis, there are easily 3-5
> pages of jobs in healthcare. Time for a career change? Can
> healthcare be outsourced to India?

One word: Bioinformatics. After getting my MSCS, I went back to take
a course in this subject, and am pursuing my Ph. D. within this realm.
Bioinformatics encompasses 4 subjects which few foreigners are going
to feasibly be an expert in. Mathematics, Biology, Computer Science,
and Physics. Oh, and you have to work with the scientists too. You
feel like you're a part of something too, helping to discover patterns
in the DNA which may spawn cures/immunizations for diseases, etc.
After doing web development and Java work for 5+ years and seeing just
how EASY it was for some foreigner to do, I had to move forward.

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