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Home > Archive > alt.certification.mcse > August 2003 > Where to start?
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| Karl S. 2003-08-18, 12:26 am |
| I'm a 48 year old broadcast television "Engineer". No certifications or
diplomas, just 2 years in a tech school and 24 years on the job. I have a
user-level knowledge of Windows 3.1 through Windows 98, as well as
dabbling in Linux a bit.
If I wanted a piece of paper that proved I knew my job, where should I
start? I've heard of something called "A+" but don't know what it is, same
with the various arcane numbered levels of MCSE. At one time I understand
I had a Associate level Certified Electronics Technician card, but the
teachers at the tech school never explained what that was. It's long since
expired, anyway.
So, I can fix a 30Kw UHF transmitter or a digital-format VCR, but all I've
got is an FCC General class license, an Amateur Extra, and a lot of years
making not much income.
Any hints, tips, or flames?
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|
| A+ is a vendor neutral (hahaha) basic computer technicians certification.
It is administered by Comptia (The Computer Technology Industry Association)
and covers hardware and software. http://www.comptia.org/ There is also a
Network+ certification along with Server+, i-Net+, Security+, Linux+ and a
few others.
Microsoft certifications cover a very wide range and it woul be better
visiting their site http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/ to get a better
idea.
MCSA = 4 exams (usually 70-210, 215, 216, 218) but Comptia A+ and Network+
can be used in place of 1 elective.
MCSE = 4 exams - (4 OS and 1 design)
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| "Karl S." <null_dev@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Any hints, tips, or flames?
Why enter what has become a low-paying, very difficult to enter, low job
security, field? I hate to say it, but at 48-years-old, no employer is
going to touch you without a college degree in MIS or CIS. Yeah, there are
age anti-discrimination laws, but that's never stopped Corporate America
before.
Don't jump on a sinking ship. That's my advice.
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| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-18, 12:29 pm |
| >"Karl S." <null_dev@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> Any hints, tips, or flames?
>
>Why enter what has become a low-paying, very difficult to enter, low job
>security, field? I hate to say it, but at 48-years-old, no employer is
>going to touch you without a college degree in MIS or CIS. Yeah, there are
>age anti-discrimination laws, but that's never stopped Corporate America
>before.
>
>Don't jump on a sinking ship. That's my advice.
>
>
So what field DOES one move sideways into at 48?
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| <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> So what field DOES one move sideways into at 48?
I don't know. That is a really tough age to be switching fields, especially
given the current economic and political climate. If he had a college
degree, he would stand a much better chance.
The best way around all of this is to start your own company. But that's a
TON of work, but it can be done. All those guys at ENRON who nobody would
hire have done pretty well starting their own companies. I read about them
in a recent issue of either Inc. or Entrepreneur magazine...
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-18, 1:30 pm |
| ><john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> So what field DOES one move sideways into at 48?
>
>I don't know. That is a really tough age to be switching fields, especially
>given the current economic and political climate. If he had a college
>degree, he would stand a much better chance.
Yes..... it IS a tough thing.
Is it too late to go back to college and even get a
degree at that age.... a degree in ANYTHING?
I mean.... given that age would he re-coup his tuition
and college money in time?
>The best way around all of this is to start your own company. But that's a
>TON of work, but it can be done. All those guys at ENRON who nobody would
>hire have done pretty well starting their own companies. I read about them
>in a recent issue of either Inc. or Entrepreneur magazine...
Interesting. I didn't know that abt them.
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| <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Is it too late to go back to college and even get a
> degree at that age.... a degree in ANYTHING?
No, I don't think so. I wouldn't get a technology degree, though, as the
government and Corporate America are clearly in the process of moving all of
those jobs offshores, or bringing in the cheap labor to supplant American
workers. Whether this is right or wrong we can debate elsewhere, but the
fact is, the days of making a living by working with technology is coming to
a rapid and abrupt halt.
I'm anxious to see the next revision of the Occupational Outlook Handbook.
And keep in mind folks, this is a newsgroup which used to generate hundreds,
if not well over a 1000 new messages a day. That number is now less than
two dozen. If you can't see the writing on the wall based on that alone,
then I guess you're going to find out the hard way. Microsoft certification
is WORTHLESS. I'm a long-time MCSE+I saying this. None of the other
certifications are any better.
The fact that Microsoft itself is offshoring so many jobs should also tell
you something... Hopefully!
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| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-18, 1:30 pm |
| >> Is it too late to go back to college and even get a
>> degree at that age.... a degree in ANYTHING?
>
>No, I don't think so. I wouldn't get a technology degree, though, as the
>government and Corporate America are clearly in the process of moving all of
>those jobs offshores, or bringing in the cheap labor to supplant American
>workers. Whether this is right or wrong we can debate elsewhere, but the
>fact is, the days of making a living by working with technology is coming to
>a rapid and abrupt halt.
I see Bob....and I tend to agree
But say he DID go back to college at 48. WHAt filed of
study WOULD you NOW recommend given the shape of the It
industry?
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|
| <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> But say he DID go back to college at 48. WHAt filed of
> study WOULD you NOW recommend given the shape of the It
> industry?
I'm struggling with this, myself, John. I'm trying to figure out a career
that cannot easily be sold out by Congress, or offshored by Corporate
America. A career in sales, perhaps, or marketing, or any type of a job
where the customer wants to see a friendly face that can speak the language.
The net effect of the offshoring and H-1B/L1 stuff is that it will drive
down ALL salaries in the USA.
I'd say a degree in management, human resources, and the like would be
valuable. Forget about accounting and finance -- those functions are headed
offshore, too. Again, this is a dilemma I'm working on myself.
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| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-18, 3:36 pm |
| >I'm struggling with this, myself, John.
Well....so am I Bob. Haha
Serious.... Im thinking of going back to school at age
45..... and was thinking IT originally. Or maybe a
combo IT and business degree.
But.....Im also asking for my 18 yr old nephew....soon
to go to college.
>I'd say a degree in management, human resources, and the like would be
>valuable. Forget about accounting and finance -- those functions are headed
>offshore, too. Again, this is a dilemma I'm working on myself.
Yep.....Ive heard that accounting and finance may go
offshore as well also.
Hadn't thought abt human resources. There is actually
a degree to be had in that??
And of course I know the health care field is booming
right now..... but I have zero interest in that myself.
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| <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:at72kvgt99umui07qi2c2b36r
fvne1fjjf@4ax.com...
> >I'm struggling with this, myself, John.
>
> Well....so am I Bob. Haha
>
> Serious.... Im thinking of going back to school at age
> 45..... and was thinking IT originally. Or maybe a
> combo IT and business degree.
If you already have IT experience, an MIS degree is still a good way to go.
Someone is still going to have to manage the infrastructure locally. Just
be prepared to help management learn how to outsource jobs and bring in
cheap labor. That's the ethical rub to IT management now.
| |
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|
"Bob" <bob@bobber.com> wrote in message
news:x680b.62490$qg3.3039647@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > But say he DID go back to college at 48. WHAt filed of
> > study WOULD you NOW recommend given the shape of the It
> > industry?
>
> I'm struggling with this, myself, John. I'm trying to figure out a career
> that cannot easily be sold out by Congress, or offshored by Corporate
> America. A career in sales, perhaps, or marketing, or any type of a job
> where the customer wants to see a friendly face that can speak the
language.
> The net effect of the offshoring and H-1B/L1 stuff is that it will drive
> down ALL salaries in the USA.
>
> I'd say a degree in management, human resources, and the like would be
> valuable. Forget about accounting and finance -- those functions are
headed
> offshore, too. Again, this is a dilemma I'm working on myself.
>
>
>
Marketing is also headed offshore.
| |
|
| "Yen" <nomail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Marketing is also headed offshore.
I predict that that won't be successful. You get into real cultural issues
there, and you can't have your fingers on the pulse of America from India.
That's a non-flyer.
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-18, 8:25 pm |
| >If you already have IT experience, an MIS degree is still a good way to go.
>Someone is still going to have to manage the infrastructure locally. Just
>be prepared to help management learn how to outsource jobs and bring in
>cheap labor. That's the ethical rub to IT management now.
Well.... I have "some" IT experience
My main function is the Autocad "guy". I design
machines using Autocad and Inventor (a solids modeler).
Im bored with what Im doing and wanting to move
"sideways" in the work arena
| |
|
| <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cqq2kvg9fj3oamdiafds4gid8
bmf37c9pj@4ax.com...
> >If you already have IT experience, an MIS degree is still a good way to
go.
> >Someone is still going to have to manage the infrastructure locally.
Just
> >be prepared to help management learn how to outsource jobs and bring in
> >cheap labor. That's the ethical rub to IT management now.
>
> Well.... I have "some" IT experience
>
> My main function is the Autocad "guy". I design
> machines using Autocad and Inventor (a solids modeler).
>
> Im bored with what Im doing and wanting to move
> "sideways" in the work arena
Well, where I got my MIS degree (U of Central Florida) they don't teach you
about the nuts and bolts of networking computers or how to fix a desktop or
a server. It's about MANAGEMENT. And I do think there is a future in that.
You need that degree and plus have a technical background (which you seem to
have) and maybe learn how to speak Hindu. 
| |
| 127.0.0.1 2003-08-18, 10:26 pm |
|
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4ft1kv0hmhftu8sicalh753rq
mmn11ao6h@4ax.com...
> >"Karl S." <null_dev@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> Any hints, tips, or flames?
> >
> >Why enter what has become a low-paying, very difficult to enter, low job
> >security, field? I hate to say it, but at 48-years-old, no employer is
> >going to touch you without a college degree in MIS or CIS. Yeah, there
are
> >age anti-discrimination laws, but that's never stopped Corporate America
> >before.
> >
> >Don't jump on a sinking ship. That's my advice.
> >
> >
>
> So what field DOES one move sideways into at 48?
a union represented technician field in any fortune 500 company...
too bad 80% of the work force have been laid off
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-19, 9:26 am |
| >Well, where I got my MIS degree (U of Central Florida) they don't teach you
>about the nuts and bolts of networking computers or how to fix a desktop or
>a server. It's about MANAGEMENT. And I do think there is a future in that.
Management?! Do you mean management of people.... or
of the hardware and system?
>You need that degree and plus have a technical background (which you seem to
>have) and maybe learn how to speak Hindu.
Hahaha....speak hindu. That made me laugh! Thanks!!
| |
| Sparky 2003-08-20, 9:26 am |
|
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:at72kvgt99umui07qi2c2b36r
fvne1fjjf@4ax.com...
> >I'm struggling with this, myself, John.
>
> Well....so am I Bob. Haha
>
> Serious.... Im thinking of going back to school at age
> 45..... and was thinking IT originally. Or maybe a
> combo IT and business degree.
>
> But.....Im also asking for my 18 yr old nephew....soon
> to go to college.
>
John, I am forty+, hold a bachelor of science degree in computer science,
with honors, from one of the top CS schools in the country, and my name is
on over two-dozen software patents. I am currently working for
fifty-percent of what I was earning before the boom. I am also completing
my master of science degree in computer science in my spare time (I am
teaching the professors about their subjects :-), but I am only doing so
because I am working for an organization where advanced paper counts.
I never recommend entering this field to anyone that I care about as it is
rapidly being gutted by corporate stupidity and greed. If someone with my
credentials (my patents have generated over a half a billion dollars
income) can be downsized, it is easy to see that bread and butter type I.T.
professionals do not stand a chance in hell of acquiring long-term
employment. The only thing that I really regret at this point is wasting
my time working for large organizations. Had I worked for smaller
organizations, I would be rich enough to retire.
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-20, 10:28 am |
| >I never recommend entering this field to anyone that I care about as it is
>rapidly being gutted by corporate stupidity and greed.
Wow!
Im very to hear this Sparky.
If you had to do it al over again....what would you
have done diff?
Would you have NOT gone in to IT at all?
If yes..... what WOULD you have gone into?
| |
| Sparky 2003-08-20, 12:29 pm |
|
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t907kv4n8c1p8d0ll8h5isgcd
gr3nbb5h6@4ax.com...
> >I never recommend entering this field to anyone that I care about as it
is
> >rapidly being gutted by corporate stupidity and greed.
>
> Wow!
>
> Im very to hear this Sparky.
>
> If you had to do it al over again....what would you
> have done diff?
>
> Would you have NOT gone in to IT at all?
>
> If yes..... what WOULD you have gone into?
If I knew then what I know now, I would have studied biotechnology or
medicine (and, I sure as hell would have not put in seventy-plus hour work
weeks for a fixed salary). Yes, medicine is under assault from managed
care, but, like lawyers, doctors are well organized. On the other hand,
biotechnology is booming. People in this industry have been getting large
raises while people in other hi-tech fields have been getting pink slips.
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-08-20, 12:29 pm |
| >If I knew then what I know now, I would have studied biotechnology or
>medicine (and, I sure as hell would have not put in seventy-plus hour work
>weeks for a fixed salary). Yes, medicine is under assault from managed
>care, but, like lawyers, doctors are well organized. On the other hand,
>biotechnology is booming. People in this industry have been getting large
>raises while people in other hi-tech fields have been getting pink slips.
OK Sparky
Wow!
These discussions on this news group sure have been an
"eye opener" to just what is happening here in the US.
I guess I was "dumb" abt it all..... just as most or
the rest of the population is.
Its REALLy sad to see what jobs are leaving this
country in epidemic proportions!!
I mean back in the 80s we lost a lot of manufacturing.
And now e are losing all the white collar stuff.
Very scary!
| |
| 127.0.0.1 2003-08-20, 12:29 pm |
|
"Sparky" <no.spam@wanted.you.fool.org> wrote in message
news:3f421ce7_2@newsfeed...
>
> <john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:at72kvgt99umui07qi2c2b36r
fvne1fjjf@4ax.com...
> > >I'm struggling with this, myself, John.
> >
> > Well....so am I Bob. Haha
> >
> > Serious.... Im thinking of going back to school at age
> > 45..... and was thinking IT originally. Or maybe a
> > combo IT and business degree.
> >
> > But.....Im also asking for my 18 yr old nephew....soon
> > to go to college.
> >
>
> John, I am forty+, hold a bachelor of science degree in computer science,
> with honors, from one of the top CS schools in the country, and my name is
> on over two-dozen software patents. I am currently working for
> fifty-percent of what I was earning before the boom. I am also
completing
> my master of science degree in computer science in my spare time (I am
> teaching the professors about their subjects :-), but I am only doing so
> because I am working for an organization where advanced paper counts.
>
> I never recommend entering this field to anyone that I care about as it is
> rapidly being gutted by corporate stupidity and greed. If someone with
my
> credentials (my patents have generated over a half a billion dollars
> income) can be downsized, it is easy to see that bread and butter type
I.T.
> professionals do not stand a chance in hell of acquiring long-term
> employment. The only thing that I really regret at this point is
wasting
> my time working for large organizations. Had I worked for smaller
> organizations, I would be rich enough to retire.
it would be nice to see someone with your credentials and contacts create a
private corporation and hire up all the laid off workers. just in my area
alone, you can startup a complete communications development company. i just
don't have the contacts and funding to do it alone. small organizations that
do well usually goes public and then falls to the all mighty stock holders.
btw, did you work for lucent/bell labs?
| |
| Sparky 2003-08-20, 2:29 pm |
| ----- Original Message -----
From: "127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not>
Newsgroups: alt.certification.mcse
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Where to start?
>
>
> it would be nice to see someone with your credentials and contacts create
a
> private corporation and hire up all the laid off workers. just in my area
> alone, you can startup a complete communications development company. i
just
> don't have the contacts and funding to do it alone. small organizations
that
> do well usually goes public and then falls to the all mighty stock
holders.
>
Thanks for the offer, but I am finished working seventy-plus hours a week.
The best thing about getting downsized is that I get to spend time with my
children. While the position I have now does not pay very well, I do get
to go home before dinner everyday.
> btw, did you work for lucent/bell labs?
>
Let's just say that I worked in research and development for several
blue-chip technology companies.
| |
| Karl S. 2003-08-22, 6:29 pm |
| Thanks for the input, guys. I tend to agree with the "Management or Sales"
angle, though for my personal interests I think I'll look into A+ a bit.
I've figured out that there's more money in selling ideas than in selling
things, more money in selling things than in making things, and more money
in making things than in fixing things! There's a few online college
courses in business out there, though. I could study that way despite my
being on 24-hour call... My current job is getting me by, but not much
more. I'm not quite at the bottom rung. If the broadcast TV market went
flat, I could likely find work at some repair shop or (shudder) Radio
Shack store. I just hope I don't end up installing 2-way radios and
stereos into people's cars, or city utility trucks again. That's where I
started out, and there're few jobs less amusing.
Karl S.
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