alt.certification.mcse - Oursourcing Information

Author

Oursourcing Information

Pops

2003-08-14, 7:26 am

A couple of years ago I went to work for a large company that has a network
with over 1100 pc's and 400 network printers. I didn't have much
experience at the time but had my A+ and Network+. I didn't know a lot but
I knew a little and I was shocked to see how badly things were being run and
maintained.

That was a few years ago. A few months ago I was promoted over the PC
Techs and Cable Pullers. The guys pulling cable waste a lot of time, and
don't keep things labeled properly and don't respond well to supervision. I
would like to contract out the cable pulling and get rid of our cable guys.

Before I go to my Boss with with this I would like to know what kind of
expense would be involved if we contracted out some our services like the
cable pulling. What are the going rates? I don't think we would sign a
contract but would probably agree to a Time and Materials arrangement.

What I would like is someone who would keep all their tools and materials on
a truck and just show up when we needed them. If anybody has a sample
agreement or something you already have in place I would appreciate the
information.

I would also like to hear your experiences of outsourcing printer repair.

Thanks

Pops

Yen

2003-08-14, 12:25 pm

2003-08-15, 1:25 am

You may have better luck keeping the cable pullers in-house and hire contract labor, rather than contract to a company. That way you keep greater control. no matter how hard you try, there is always some point on contention in an outsource contract.
You would also be outsorurcing a part that you are overseeing, so there may be reduced need for your job. Either way, you have to 'dispose' of the current employees. If you hire a company, you may get the same people back (you may have 'sell' the employ
ees, some companies prefer someone with knowledge of the infrastructure) and if you cannot manage them now, just wait until you get a third party involved.
Since you would have to lay-off or terminate the current workers, it is POSSIBLE that the threat of bringing in contract to replace them will tighten up the attitudes. If they have been there a while, you own them the chance to work it out. If you are a
new manager, you may be an effective change agent by introducing the idea of outsourcing. Give them the idea and maybe things will change without the pain.

I worked for Raytheon and when they tried to get rid of desktop printers, the population just responded by purchasing cheap (disposable) ink-jets. They did not see the added cost to the company in ink. As for network printer repair, look for a company t
hat will come in to your site (if you are using large printers such as tektronics, QMS, or HP 81xx types).
You can get away with a company that will accept drop-off's or will pick up, but that worked for smaller (like 4M or 5M printers) only. Also, make sure that whoever does the repairs is an 'authorized center', they can USUALLY get parts faster than the ge
neric shops.

Cheers!

Beoweolf

2003-08-15, 10:26 am

You need to do some work before making your decision. Determine how much the
current service is actually being used. Why are cables are being pulled,
what is an acceptable turn around time from request to completed install?
You will need the same information if you "outsource". When you outsource,
you need to some sort of service level agreement with easily determined,
enforceable expectations (levels) of service.

A guy pulling up in a truck, doing what you want done, at your expected
level professionalism; all cables labeled at both ends, labeled every 10 -
15 ft., create/maintained and update a wiring map..either hard copy or visio
or product you provide You may find that keeping the in-house guys is cost
effective. You need to determine the root of your present distress? As
someone mentioned, Outsource companies, as a rule do not like being called
in on spot jobs. If you are determined to go ahead with this, expect
them...if they are professionals...to include the cost of doing an inventory
of your present installed wiring, prior to taking over the responsibility.
It may be better to work with your current crew, see if it can be salvaged..
"Yen" <nomail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bhg9u8$eo6o$1@ID-201446.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Pops" <whstephe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:M2K_a.9002$rh1.5486@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > A couple of years ago I went to work for a large company that has a
> network
> > with over 1100 pc's and 400 network printers. I didn't have much
> > experience at the time but had my A+ and Network+. I didn't know a lot
> but
> > I knew a little and I was shocked to see how badly things were being run
> and
> > maintained.
> >
> > That was a few years ago. A few months ago I was promoted over the PC
> > Techs and Cable Pullers. The guys pulling cable waste a lot of time,
and
> > don't keep things labeled properly and don't respond well to
supervision.
> I
> > would like to contract out the cable pulling and get rid of our cable
> guys.
> >
> > Before I go to my Boss with with this I would like to know what kind of
> > expense would be involved if we contracted out some our services like
the
> > cable pulling. What are the going rates? I don't think we would sign
a
> > contract but would probably agree to a Time and Materials arrangement.
> >
> > What I would like is someone who would keep all their tools and
materials
> on
> > a truck and just show up when we needed them. If anybody has a sample
> > agreement or something you already have in place I would appreciate the
> > information.
> >
> > I would also like to hear your experiences of outsourcing printer
repair.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Pops
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> If you are located in Souther California, I use Vector Resources for this
> type of work. There are cable installers in every city. They will probably
> prefer bulk work to onesy-twosy type jobs.
>
>

127.0.0.1

2003-08-15, 11:24 pm

"Pops" <whstephe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:M2K_a.9002$rh1.5486@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> A couple of years ago I went to work for a large company that has a
network
> with over 1100 pc's and 400 network printers. I didn't have much
> experience at the time but had my A+ and Network+. I didn't know a lot
but
> I knew a little and I was shocked to see how badly things were being run
and
> maintained.
>
> That was a few years ago. A few months ago I was promoted over the PC
> Techs and Cable Pullers. The guys pulling cable waste a lot of time, and
> don't keep things labeled properly and don't respond well to supervision.
I
> would like to contract out the cable pulling and get rid of our cable
guys.
>
> Before I go to my Boss with with this I would like to know what kind of
> expense would be involved if we contracted out some our services like the
> cable pulling. What are the going rates? I don't think we would sign a
> contract but would probably agree to a Time and Materials arrangement.
>
> What I would like is someone who would keep all their tools and materials
on
> a truck and just show up when we needed them. If anybody has a sample
> agreement or something you already have in place I would appreciate the
> information.
>
> I would also like to hear your experiences of outsourcing printer repair.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pops

a few things to consider, what is your budget? is there a union representing
the cable pullers? and are you capable of convincing your boss or the bean
counters that the expense you will spend will save the company in time and
efficiency in the long run? do some real time efficiency test on the network
(load and printer) and do a forecast with whatever you plan on fixing.

as for the cable-pullers... if they have been with the company for years,
then they are a valuable source of where everything is. i was a cable puller
when i used to work for lucent r&d and manufacturing in columbus ohio. i
would recommend a training program to standardize and re-map the existing
network (use visio). once the cable pullers are re-trained, they know where
every hub and closet is so that re-mapping the network would be possible
within a time period.

i was promoted to network engineer and the cable-pullers were my hands and
feet. i get to stay at my terminal while i instructed them via 2-way radio.
a threat of outsourcing will motivate them to do their jobs. cable pullers
also make great network technicians...

the problem with hiring someone who would keep all their tools and materials
on a truck and just show up when you need him is that he will not be there
at the time when you need him.... downed networks need to fixed immediately.
no time to page him and hope he is available. it would also be wise to
combine the pc techs and cable pullers to one group. and reduce their number
to just enough to service the companies needs. in my experience, 4 techs are
needed to maintain 1000 workstations. you can also get away with downsizing
to 2 techs if your budget is limited.

hope this helps

Sparky

2003-08-23, 12:24 pm

"127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
news:G7h%a.24333$vo2.24010@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> a threat of outsourcing will motivate them to do their jobs.
>

I do not agree with the "threat of outsourcing" approach to leadership.
A supervisor's (and a manager's) job is to lead, and good leaders lead by
setting an example worthy of emulation. Most people are not lazy, and lack
of motivation has a root cause. A good leader strives to identify the root
cause of the problem, and does his/her best to eliminate it. Often, the
root cause can be traced to substance abuse (i.e., drugs or alcohol);
however, it could also be traced to marital, financial, or medical problems,
or even poor leadership from a previous supervisor/manager.

The number one thing that good leader needs to instill in his troops is the
feeling that they will not get killed if they follow him/her (i.e., they
will be taken care of). This is where setting an example worthy of
emulation comes into practice because if a person is emulating you, then
they are following you. It is always eaiser to pull than it is to push
people. Pushing people just pisses them off--hence, they become even less
motivated to perform their job.

In closing, a good leader must earn the trust and respect of his/her troops.
Threatening to lay them off; thus, putting them at the bottom of "Maslow's
Hiearchy of Needs," does not earn either their trust or respect. What it
does is instill fear, which will cause them to seek other employment
opportunities taking value corporate knowledge with them in the process.
If one takes the the time to listen to one's troops, they will discover the
root of a motivation problem nine times out of ten.

127.0.0.1

2003-08-23, 2:26 pm

"Sparky" <no.spam@wanted.you.fool.org> wrote in message
news:3f4640f3_2@newsfeed...
>
> "127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
> news:G7h%a.24333$vo2.24010@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > a threat of outsourcing will motivate them to do their jobs.
> >
>
> I do not agree with the "threat of outsourcing" approach to leadership.
> A supervisor's (and a manager's) job is to lead, and good leaders lead by
> setting an example worthy of emulation.

managers don't pull cable, neither do supervisors... setting an example
worthy of emulation doesn't apply here.

>Most people are not lazy, and lack
> of motivation has a root cause. A good leader strives to identify the
root
> cause of the problem, and does his/her best to eliminate it. Often, the
> root cause can be traced to substance abuse (i.e., drugs or alcohol);

In the union world, it's called management induced laziness. Workshift
starts at 8 pm, client's equipment cannot be touched until mid-night as per
client's regulations. Overtime is approved till 6 am. Total amount work done
is 3 hours after midnight and volunteers are requested for weekend overtime.
Work is on schedule and overtime is politically motivated.

best way to motivate a worker is to flash some cash, but that isn't
applicable... managers have a budget to maintain. and it's usually reserved
for company dinner birthday parties for the brass. i never knew this until i
was promoted to network engineer and was invited to the weekly paid dinner
parties. the cable-pullers beneath me weren't invited.

> however, it could also be traced to marital, financial, or medical
problems,
> or even poor leadership from a previous supervisor/manager.

low income causes marital problems. low income causes depression
(alcohol/drug abuse is a byproduct). threatening to take the all mighty
dollar away will motivate people to shape up or ship out.

> In closing, a good leader must earn the trust and respect of his/her
troops.
> Threatening to lay them off; thus, putting them at the bottom of
"Maslow's
> Hiearchy of Needs," does not earn either their trust or respect. What it
> does is instill fear, which will cause them to seek other employment
> opportunities taking value corporate knowledge with them in the process.
> If one takes the the time to listen to one's troops, they will discover
the
> root of a motivation problem nine times out of ten.

there is no leadership or trust in corporate america. it's all about the
ink.
there shouldn't be a comparison with military field leadership because
there's no life and death motivation to hold an IT department together. bad
leaders in the combat field usually ends up with corpses, not termination
notices.

Sparky

2003-08-24, 1:29 pm

"127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
news:2aO1b.728$jY2.24@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Sparky" <no.spam@wanted.you.fool.org> wrote in message
> news:3f4640f3_2@newsfeed...
>
> managers don't pull cable, neither do supervisors... setting an example
> worthy of emulation doesn't apply here.
>

In the military, officers do not dig ditches either, but they still have to
lead by example. Yes, I acquired my leadership skills as junior officer in
the military many moons ago, but those same skills work just as well in the
corporate world. Currently, in the corporate world, their is an absence of
leadership (probably because, unlike when I entered the corporate world,
most of the senior level managers today basically dodged the draft via
educational deferrement). Management is not leadership, but the best
managers also possess good leadership skills.

>
> best way to motivate a worker is to flash some cash, but that isn't
>

Cash is not a long term motivator. Cash cannot overcome a poor leadership
or a bad working environment.

> applicable... managers have a budget to maintain. and it's usually
reserved
> for company dinner birthday parties for the brass. i never knew this until
i
> was promoted to network engineer and was invited to the weekly paid dinner
> parties. the cable-pullers beneath me weren't invited.
>

Here is a good example of not leading by example! The most important
lesson that I learned as junior officer was to ensure that my troops were
fed and had a place to sleep before I ate or sleep. When I left the
service and became a techical leader, I made sure to take care of my
teammates. I cannot count the number of times that I have catered lunch
and other events at my own expense. This is part of what I mean by setting
an example worthy of emulation.

>
> low income causes marital problems. low income causes depression
> (alcohol/drug abuse is a byproduct). threatening to take the all mighty
> dollar away will motivate people to shape up or ship out.
>

No, it shows that one is a piss poor leader. Try this manuever with
knowledge workers, and your most talented people will jump ship.

>
> there is no leadership or trust in corporate america. it's all about the
> ink.
> there shouldn't be a comparison with military field leadership because
> there's no life and death motivation to hold an IT department together.
bad
> leaders in the combat field usually ends up with corpses, not termination
> notices.
>
>

Yes, there is a very real comparison between military and civilian
leadership. No, and I repeat no, manager, that is in charge of knowledge
workers, can survive using hardball tactics. The best that can be achieved
through draconian leadership practices is average work because people will
stop at what is passable when they believe that no one is looking out for
their interests. In today's hypercompetitive market, average work is will
not cut it for most companies; thus, the whole company will go down in
flames (i.e., which is synonymous to getting killed). Trust me, the
current draconian management practices (e.g., offshoring w/ citizens
training their foreign replacements) that are occurring in most corporations
will come back to haunt these companies in a big way. Ninety-six percent
of systems projects failed to completely meet user requirements and/or
budgetary/time constraints when they were performed by people who had direct
contact with their users. With the design teams almost eight thousand
miles away, the number of outright, extremely expensive failures is going to
be staggering--expect to see several U.S. corporations go down in flames.

Beoweolf

2003-08-28, 5:26 pm

Let's review, no more company parties, no on site meals, declining health
benefits, cut staff, double the work load and fire all the senior
(experienced, well-paid) people...surprise, surprise...productivity is down!

It ain't the process, it's the people. The lesson of the 90's was treat
people like they matter and they will respond...will work slave hours,
because they have a personal investment in doing a good job. Then the bean
counters said, you can maximize your profits by shaving a little here, a
little there, it's not personal...it's business. So workers went along,
until they couldn't see why. Now the spiraling cycle of lowered
expectations, leading to lowered involvement...I will do my job, well enough
to keep from being let go. Most places you go ...people are quick to tell
you ... that's our policy, take it or leave it...translation: screw you,
just give me the money and get out, next!

"Sparky" <no.spam@wanted.you.fool.org> wrote in message
news:3f47973a_2@newsfeed...
>
> "127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
> news:2aO1b.728$jY2.24@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Sparky" <no.spam@wanted.you.fool.org> wrote in message
> > news:3f4640f3_2@newsfeed...
> >
> > managers don't pull cable, neither do supervisors... setting an example
> > worthy of emulation doesn't apply here.
> >
>
> In the military, officers do not dig ditches either, but they still have
to
> lead by example. Yes, I acquired my leadership skills as junior officer
in
> the military many moons ago, but those same skills work just as well in
the
> corporate world. Currently, in the corporate world, their is an absence
of
> leadership (probably because, unlike when I entered the corporate world,
> most of the senior level managers today basically dodged the draft via
> educational deferrement). Management is not leadership, but the best
> managers also possess good leadership skills.
>
> >
> > best way to motivate a worker is to flash some cash, but that isn't
> >
>
> Cash is not a long term motivator. Cash cannot overcome a poor leadership
> or a bad working environment.
>
> > applicable... managers have a budget to maintain. and it's usually
> reserved
> > for company dinner birthday parties for the brass. i never knew this
until
> i
> > was promoted to network engineer and was invited to the weekly paid
dinner
> > parties. the cable-pullers beneath me weren't invited.
> >
>
> Here is a good example of not leading by example! The most important
> lesson that I learned as junior officer was to ensure that my troops were
> fed and had a place to sleep before I ate or sleep. When I left the
> service and became a techical leader, I made sure to take care of my
> teammates. I cannot count the number of times that I have catered lunch
> and other events at my own expense. This is part of what I mean by
setting
> an example worthy of emulation.
>
> >
> > low income causes marital problems. low income causes depression
> > (alcohol/drug abuse is a byproduct). threatening to take the all mighty
> > dollar away will motivate people to shape up or ship out.
> >
>
> No, it shows that one is a piss poor leader. Try this manuever with
> knowledge workers, and your most talented people will jump ship.
>
> >
> > there is no leadership or trust in corporate america. it's all about the
> > ink.
> > there shouldn't be a comparison with military field leadership because
> > there's no life and death motivation to hold an IT department together.
> bad
> > leaders in the combat field usually ends up with corpses, not
termination
> > notices.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, there is a very real comparison between military and civilian
> leadership. No, and I repeat no, manager, that is in charge of knowledge
> workers, can survive using hardball tactics. The best that can be
achieved
> through draconian leadership practices is average work because people will
> stop at what is passable when they believe that no one is looking out for
> their interests. In today's hypercompetitive market, average work is
will
> not cut it for most companies; thus, the whole company will go down in
> flames (i.e., which is synonymous to getting killed). Trust me, the
> current draconian management practices (e.g., offshoring w/ citizens
> training their foreign replacements) that are occurring in most
corporations
> will come back to haunt these companies in a big way. Ninety-six percent
> of systems projects failed to completely meet user requirements and/or
> budgetary/time constraints when they were performed by people who had
direct
> contact with their users. With the design teams almost eight thousand
> miles away, the number of outright, extremely expensive failures is going
to
> be staggering--expect to see several U.S. corporations go down in flames.
>
>

Sponsored Links