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Terminated For Making Too Much
|
|
| Wilson 2003-08-12, 12:26 pm |
| The trend for IT salaries was the sky was the limit for many years in the
90s. Many people still have the same positions and salaries since 9/11 but
that is already changing for some.
Companies are approaching employees with the line that 'we can find the same
or better suited person for much less money' line before giving the pink
slip. I know some IT people that have not been touched in the downturn that
think somehow that they are secure. So if you are still sitting back in your
nice leather chair as a $70K a year admin, don't be too smug. A few friends
of mine are and the grim reaper of HR will be knocking on their door soon.
An MCSE admin right now is in the $25K a year range for new hires. So if you
are making the big bucks in an IT department, you might want to request a
salary reduction before issued a pink slip.
You could be the most experianced MCSE in the area and able to fix any
problem at all but to save money they will fire you and give your job to the
(acne faced teen from 'The Simpsons) at one third of what you were making.
| |
| Steven Cox 2003-08-12, 2:26 pm |
| On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:01:40 -0400, "Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org>
wrote:
>The trend for IT salaries was the sky was the limit for many years in the
>90s. Many people still have the same positions and salaries since 9/11 but
>that is already changing for some.
>
>Companies are approaching employees with the line that 'we can find the same
>or better suited person for much less money' line before giving the pink
>slip. I know some IT people that have not been touched in the downturn that
>think somehow that they are secure. So if you are still sitting back in your
>nice leather chair as a $70K a year admin, don't be too smug. A few friends
>of mine are and the grim reaper of HR will be knocking on their door soon.
>An MCSE admin right now is in the $25K a year range for new hires. So if you
>are making the big bucks in an IT department, you might want to request a
>salary reduction before issued a pink slip.
Only if you know you're not worth $70k. If you *are*, let the pink
slip come, you'll find another job and is just might be a better one.
Its amazing how the market will tend towards one making what they're
actually worth.
-s-
| |
| Wilson 2003-08-12, 2:26 pm |
|
"Steven Cox" <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ja8ijvkg91h646jh2omjs40q5
cr6tr6iur@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:01:40 -0400, "Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org>
> wrote:
>
> >The trend for IT salaries was the sky was the limit for many years in the
> >90s. Many people still have the same positions and salaries since 9/11
but
> >that is already changing for some.
> >
> >Companies are approaching employees with the line that 'we can find the
same
> >or better suited person for much less money' line before giving the pink
> >slip. I know some IT people that have not been touched in the downturn
that
> >think somehow that they are secure. So if you are still sitting back in
your
> >nice leather chair as a $70K a year admin, don't be too smug. A few
friends
> >of mine are and the grim reaper of HR will be knocking on their door
soon.
> >An MCSE admin right now is in the $25K a year range for new hires. So if
you
> >are making the big bucks in an IT department, you might want to request a
> >salary reduction before issued a pink slip.
>
> Only if you know you're not worth $70k. If you *are*, let the pink
> slip come, you'll find another job and is just might be a better one.
> Its amazing how the market will tend towards one making what they're
> actually worth.
IT saleries are dropping very fast. True, there are admins out there making
$70K but that will not last for much longer with the same skill sets for
25-35K a year. And please don't think that they won't hire a novice to
replace someone loyal, experianced and dedicated.
| |
| kyfunguy 2003-08-12, 2:26 pm |
| That's for damn sure...
Job security went out with the 70's..... in the mid to late 90's, workers
were able to fight back, albeit just a little, with the economic boom... but
now that is over. Just as it was in the late 70's, companies, once again,
have most of their employees 'by the balls.' Get ready for the hard squeeze,
as company after company begins the old 'be thankful you have a job' message
once again...
"Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org> wrote in message
news:Is9_a.3179$xQ1.2953@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> "Steven Cox" <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ja8ijvkg91h646jh2omjs40q5
cr6tr6iur@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:01:40 -0400, "Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >The trend for IT salaries was the sky was the limit for many years in
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > >90s. Many people still have the same positions and salaries since 9/11
> but
> > >that is already changing for some.
> > >
> > >Companies are approaching employees with the line that 'we can find the
> same
> > >or better suited person for much less money' line before giving the[/color]
pink[
color=darkred]
> > >slip. I know some IT people that have not been touched in the downturn
> that
> > >think somehow that they are secure. So if you are still sitting back in
> your
> > >nice leather chair as a $70K a year admin, don't be too smug. A few
> friends
> > >of mine are and the grim reaper of HR will be knocking on their door
> soon.
> > >An MCSE admin right now is in the $25K a year range for new hires. So[/color]
if
> you
> > >are making the big bucks in an IT department, you might want to request
a[col
or=darkred]
> > >salary reduction before issued a pink slip.
> >
> > Only if you know you're not worth $70k. If you *are*, let the pink
> > slip come, you'll find another job and is just might be a better one.
> > Its amazing how the market will tend towards one making what they're
> > actually worth.
>
> IT saleries are dropping very fast. True, there are admins out there[/color]
making
> $70K but that will not last for much longer with the same skill sets for
> 25-35K a year. And please don't think that they won't hire a novice to
> replace someone loyal, experianced and dedicated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-12, 10:26 pm |
| Your wrong!
I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes' to
me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and experience
(thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money, but
they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to dump
key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
though..... expect bonuses instead.
Robyn Myers
MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
computer business)
| |
| pheonix1t 2003-08-12, 10:26 pm |
| Mr. Robyn Myers wrote:
> Your wrong!
> I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
> the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
> tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes' to
> me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and experience
> (thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money, but
> they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to dump
> key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> though..... expect bonuses instead.
>
>
> Robyn Myers
> MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> computer business)
>
>
You look like you've painted yourself into a corner...you look like you
are a MS only person......the wise thing to do is NOT to paint yourself
in a corner and become well versed (or well-rounded) with a few OS's
(windows, unix, linux, cisco) and a few databases (oracle, MS, etc).
I'm very good with windows OS's, but most of my GOOD paying work for the
past 3 years has come from integrating different OS's and databases!
After a while of doing that, windows only stuff is child's play!
And yea, I've installed and migrated a lot of networks to linux....yes
it is hot...but like I said....DON'T PAINT YOURSELF INTO A CORNER!
Linux may be hot now...but what about 10 years from now? 10 years ago,
Novell was big...where are they now?
Good luck to all of you out there in the field...the out-sourcing to
other countries for cheap labor is a serious issue. My opinion on
dealing with this is to get involved in politics...there is a big
election next year! If these job loss issues due to greedy companies
don't wake people up and make them go vote, I don't know what will!!
Last election only about half the country voted....and, if anything, it
proved that YOUR VOTE DOES COUNT!!
Oskar
| |
|
| "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:5Mg_a.4786$un6.2095817764@twister2.starband.net...
> Your wrong!
> I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
> the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
> tools.
You live in a dream world. Also, the MCP Magazine salary survey is biased
junk -- it means nothing and it never has.
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-12, 11:27 pm |
| I agree .. I also install wireless networks and teach SQL 2000. My backup
plan is to keep teaching at least PT to maintain my MCT. So no corner ..
thanks
Robyn Myers
"pheonix1t" <pheonix1t898oi@iliiearthilink.eionet> wrote in message
news:yZg_a.302$US5.136@newsread5.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Mr. Robyn Myers wrote:
> > Your wrong!
> > I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k
is
> > the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs
and
> > tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour
grapes' to
> > me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and
experience
> > (thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money,
but
> > they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to
dump
> > key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> > though..... expect bonuses instead.
> >
> >
> > Robyn Myers
> > MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> > computer business)
> >
> >
> You look like you've painted yourself into a corner...you look like you
> are a MS only person......the wise thing to do is NOT to paint yourself
> in a corner and become well versed (or well-rounded) with a few OS's
> (windows, unix, linux, cisco) and a few databases (oracle, MS, etc).
> I'm very good with windows OS's, but most of my GOOD paying work for the
> past 3 years has come from integrating different OS's and databases!
> After a while of doing that, windows only stuff is child's play!
> And yea, I've installed and migrated a lot of networks to linux....yes
> it is hot...but like I said....DON'T PAINT YOURSELF INTO A CORNER!
> Linux may be hot now...but what about 10 years from now? 10 years ago,
> Novell was big...where are they now?
>
> Good luck to all of you out there in the field...the out-sourcing to
> other countries for cheap labor is a serious issue. My opinion on
> dealing with this is to get involved in politics...there is a big
> election next year! If these job loss issues due to greedy companies
> don't wake people up and make them go vote, I don't know what will!!
> Last election only about half the country voted....and, if anything, it
> proved that YOUR VOTE DOES COUNT!!
>
> Oskar
>
>
>
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-12, 11:27 pm |
| I agree
I also teach SQL 2000 ....
Teaching is my OTHER shoe ..
Thanks
Robyn Myers
"pheonix1t" <pheonix1t898oi@iliiearthilink.eionet> wrote in message
news:yZg_a.302$US5.136@newsread5.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Mr. Robyn Myers wrote:
> > Your wrong!
> > I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k
is
> > the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs
and
> > tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour
grapes' to
> > me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and
experience
> > (thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money,
but
> > they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to
dump
> > key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> > though..... expect bonuses instead.
> >
> >
> > Robyn Myers
> > MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> > computer business)
> >
> >
> You look like you've painted yourself into a corner...you look like you
> are a MS only person......the wise thing to do is NOT to paint yourself
> in a corner and become well versed (or well-rounded) with a few OS's
> (windows, unix, linux, cisco) and a few databases (oracle, MS, etc).
> I'm very good with windows OS's, but most of my GOOD paying work for the
> past 3 years has come from integrating different OS's and databases!
> After a while of doing that, windows only stuff is child's play!
> And yea, I've installed and migrated a lot of networks to linux....yes
> it is hot...but like I said....DON'T PAINT YOURSELF INTO A CORNER!
> Linux may be hot now...but what about 10 years from now? 10 years ago,
> Novell was big...where are they now?
>
> Good luck to all of you out there in the field...the out-sourcing to
> other countries for cheap labor is a serious issue. My opinion on
> dealing with this is to get involved in politics...there is a big
> election next year! If these job loss issues due to greedy companies
> don't wake people up and make them go vote, I don't know what will!!
> Last election only about half the country voted....and, if anything, it
> proved that YOUR VOTE DOES COUNT!!
>
> Oskar
>
>
>
| |
| Wilson 2003-08-14, 4:26 pm |
| First of all, it is 'You're' and not 'your'.
For the rest of this post, do you get your info from a MCSE training school?
It looks that way from the numbers you quote.
"Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:5Mg_a.4786$un6.2095817764@twister2.starband.net...
> Your wrong!
> I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
> the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
> tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes'
to
> me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and experience
> (thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money,
but
> they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to dump
> key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> though..... expect bonuses instead.
>
>
> Robyn Myers
> MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> computer business)
>
>
| |
|
| "Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org> wrote in message
news:1hR_a.1521$sx4.482@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> First of all, it is 'You're' and not 'your'.
>
> For the rest of this post, do you get your info from a MCSE training
school?
> It looks that way from the numbers you quote.
MCP Magazine is one of the most dishonest publications in print. I don't
trust ANY of their numbers.
| |
| Wilson 2003-08-14, 6:25 pm |
|
"Bob" <bob@bobber.com> wrote in message
news:9qR_a.45995$On2.2214666@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org> wrote in message
> news:1hR_a.1521$sx4.482@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > First of all, it is 'You're' and not 'your'.
> >
> > For the rest of this post, do you get your info from a MCSE training
> school?
> > It looks that way from the numbers you quote.
>
> MCP Magazine is one of the most dishonest publications in print. I don't
> trust ANY of their numbers.
It's a wonderful publication for getting people to plunk down thousands of
dollars for MCSE and other certs.
BECOME AN MCSE AND EARN BIG BUCKS IN A SECURE JOB MARKET!!!
| |
| SeMpErFi 2003-08-15, 6:25 am |
| No Offense,
If your as good as you say you are then the guys behind you will probably
be lost very soon, and things will go awry. The company will either ask you
back or hire someone else claiming to have your knowledge for the same or
less money.
If you look at companies like American Airlines, they have layed off
thousands, and have asked those who are left with jobs to consider pay cuts
as there were more lay offs to come. Almost everyone did take a big cut in
pay and benefits. Having a job today is a blessing even if you have to take
a pay cut. Don't take it as an insult if asked to take a pay cut as some
companies are just trying to survive.
Good luck in your future endeavours and God Bless,
Paul
"Wilson" <wilson@noemailforme.org> wrote in message
news:t48_a.2412$xQ1.1142@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> The trend for IT salaries was the sky was the limit for many years in the
> 90s. Many people still have the same positions and salaries since 9/11 but
> that is already changing for some.
>
> Companies are approaching employees with the line that 'we can find the
same
> or better suited person for much less money' line before giving the pink
> slip. I know some IT people that have not been touched in the downturn
that
> think somehow that they are secure. So if you are still sitting back in
your
> nice leather chair as a $70K a year admin, don't be too smug. A few
friends
> of mine are and the grim reaper of HR will be knocking on their door soon.
> An MCSE admin right now is in the $25K a year range for new hires. So if
you
> are making the big bucks in an IT department, you might want to request a
> salary reduction before issued a pink slip.
>
> You could be the most experianced MCSE in the area and able to fix any
> problem at all but to save money they will fire you and give your job to
the
> (acne faced teen from 'The Simpsons) at one third of what you were making.
>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
|
| On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:46:19 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
<ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
>Your wrong!
>I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
>the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
>tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes' to
>me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and experience
>(thats me) gets at least 70k.
I hope you are not basing your argument on an issue of MCP magazine.
For another source of information, try reading some of the "top
stories" at http://www.washtech.org/wt/ for a general view of what is
happening in the IT job market.
>Companies will dump people to save money, but
>they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to dump
>key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
>though..... expect bonuses instead.
>
You must be working with a different breed of managers than those I
have worked with for 30 years. Their personal priorities do not lend
themselves to thinking long term, or having a long memory. They are
generally concerned with looking good this month, or if they are
visionary, looking good 3 months from now. (I should add that I have
worked with some GREAT managers, but they seem to be rare).
>
>Robyn Myers
>MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
>computer business)
>
If I may, I would like to offer a genuine word of advice. If you ever
do find yourself looking for another IT job, I would not mention "27
years in the computer business" on your resume. :-) Go with a
functional resume instead of a chronological one.
----------------------------
We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
- Warren Zevon
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-15, 11:24 pm |
| Hmm maybe you are right about the experience stuff ..
I use a chronological resume now .. tough to write a functional only resume
...
Not really used to hunting for jobs, I have only held 4 in my life but
recently I have looked around the Seattle area and there seem to be alot of
60-70k MCSE type jobs in the area.
Thanks for the advice,
Robyn Myers
"Skip" <Skip@NoAddress.invalid> wrote in message
news:3484ee175a3f24e3061562335
ee30729@news.1usenet.com...
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:46:19 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
> <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
>
> >Your wrong!
> >I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
> >the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
> >tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes'
to
> >me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and
experience
> >(thats me) gets at least 70k.
>
> I hope you are not basing your argument on an issue of MCP magazine.
> For another source of information, try reading some of the "top
> stories" at http://www.washtech.org/wt/ for a general view of what is
> happening in the IT job market.
>
> >Companies will dump people to save money, but
> >they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to
dump
> >key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> >though..... expect bonuses instead.
> >
>
> You must be working with a different breed of managers than those I
> have worked with for 30 years. Their personal priorities do not lend
> themselves to thinking long term, or having a long memory. They are
> generally concerned with looking good this month, or if they are
> visionary, looking good 3 months from now. (I should add that I have
> worked with some GREAT managers, but they seem to be rare).
>
> >
> >Robyn Myers
> >MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> >computer business)
> >
>
> If I may, I would like to offer a genuine word of advice. If you ever
> do find yourself looking for another IT job, I would not mention "27
> years in the computer business" on your resume. :-) Go with a
> functional resume instead of a chronological one.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> We contemplate eternity
> Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
>
> - Warren Zevon
| |
|
| On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 02:58:22 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
<ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
>Hmm maybe you are right about the experience stuff ..
>
>I use a chronological resume now .. tough to write a functional only resume
>..
>
>Not really used to hunting for jobs, I have only held 4 in my life but
>recently I have looked around the Seattle area and there seem to be alot of
>60-70k MCSE type jobs in the area.
>
>Thanks for the advice,
>
>Robyn Myers
>
I know what you mean. I have only applied for a job once in my life
(and then, I just walked in and signed up). Now after (ARGHH!) 35
years, I find myself looking. I have had one HR manager tell me that
my (functional) resume was one of the best she has seen. I didn't get
the job, so perhaps she was just blowing smoke up my butt (though she
did make the effort to call and discuss the process with me).
I have these sections on my resume in this order. I tried to list the
most important information first, in case they only read part of it.
Objective: I am told that this is important, though I don't know why.
Certifications: give full english names as well. i.e.
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)
Highlights: Here I did mention "over 10 years experience" blah blah,
notice I just said "over 10", not "20". Then I have bullet points
giving some important sounding responsibilities and personality traits
Accomplishments: Here I had four sub-divisions.
Systems Development- some major projects.
Project Management: um.. some projects I managed.
System Administration: Listed system types I administered
(either in full, or as a backup person).
Supervision. Listed supervision experience (or tried to)
Development Platforms and Protocols: This is the usual grab bag of
things I have been reasonably familiar with. I tried to limit this to
things I really WAS familiar with. (I have read one "expert" who says
this section should be omitted)
My resume ran to two pages. I know many people insist it should only
be one page long, no matter WHAT. But I disagree, and at least one HR
manager (the one mentioned above) agreed that my resume was the
correct length (she snorted when I asked if 2 pages was too much, and
said something like "That one page rule is a bunch of crap. That is
what we tell people when we don't want to treat them as individual
cases. When you get to be 'our' age, you need two pages to list your
experience."
If you like, I can send you the web address of my job search site
where I have the full resume. I also live in the Seattle area! Maybe
we can form an Old-Geek club. :-)
I have been looking for 1.5 years now... Starting to apply for clerk
jobs, though I was called yesterday for an interview (programming
job). So, hope springs eternal.
----------------------------
We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
- Warren Zevon
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-18, 2:29 pm |
| Thanks
Will start working on this as soon as I finish my semester. Getting a BSCS
degree and have one more semester to go, Stats and Algebra kicked my butt.
Thanks again,
Robyn Myers
"Skip" <Skip@NoAddress.invalid> wrote in message
news:ea8300fe208bf9a502d7ecce3
853bb1a@news.1usenet.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 02:58:22 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
> <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
>
> >Hmm maybe you are right about the experience stuff ..
> >
> >I use a chronological resume now .. tough to write a functional only
resume
> >..
> >
> >Not really used to hunting for jobs, I have only held 4 in my life but
> >recently I have looked around the Seattle area and there seem to be alot
of
> >60-70k MCSE type jobs in the area.
> >
> >Thanks for the advice,
> >
> >Robyn Myers
> >
>
> I know what you mean. I have only applied for a job once in my life
> (and then, I just walked in and signed up). Now after (ARGHH!) 35
> years, I find myself looking. I have had one HR manager tell me that
> my (functional) resume was one of the best she has seen. I didn't get
> the job, so perhaps she was just blowing smoke up my butt (though she
> did make the effort to call and discuss the process with me).
>
> I have these sections on my resume in this order. I tried to list the
> most important information first, in case they only read part of it.
>
> Objective: I am told that this is important, though I don't know why.
>
> Certifications: give full english names as well. i.e.
> Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)
>
> Highlights: Here I did mention "over 10 years experience" blah blah,
> notice I just said "over 10", not "20". Then I have bullet points
> giving some important sounding responsibilities and personality traits
>
> Accomplishments: Here I had four sub-divisions.
> Systems Development- some major projects.
> Project Management: um.. some projects I managed.
> System Administration: Listed system types I administered
> (either in full, or as a backup person).
> Supervision. Listed supervision experience (or tried to)
>
> Development Platforms and Protocols: This is the usual grab bag of
> things I have been reasonably familiar with. I tried to limit this to
> things I really WAS familiar with. (I have read one "expert" who says
> this section should be omitted)
>
> My resume ran to two pages. I know many people insist it should only
> be one page long, no matter WHAT. But I disagree, and at least one HR
> manager (the one mentioned above) agreed that my resume was the
> correct length (she snorted when I asked if 2 pages was too much, and
> said something like "That one page rule is a bunch of crap. That is
> what we tell people when we don't want to treat them as individual
> cases. When you get to be 'our' age, you need two pages to list your
> experience."
>
> If you like, I can send you the web address of my job search site
> where I have the full resume. I also live in the Seattle area! Maybe
> we can form an Old-Geek club. :-)
>
> I have been looking for 1.5 years now... Starting to apply for clerk
> jobs, though I was called yesterday for an interview (programming
> job). So, hope springs eternal.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> We contemplate eternity
> Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
>
> - Warren Zevon
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-18, 2:29 pm |
| Yes I will contact you. The wife and I are thinking of moving to the Seattle
area for a change. She is from the Pacific Rim and has been here in Florida
for two years. She is looking for a change in the weather and scenery. I
figure with my degrees, certs, and experience I can at least make 50-60k,
pay the bills. Then restart my consultant business. I am also retired
military and I see more military benefits in that area.
Thanks for your help.
Robyn Myers
PS My email is ramyers(nospam)@starband.net if you want to send the resume
web site. thanks again.
"Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:E5h%a.1695$bD4.76944430@twister1.starband.net...
> Hmm maybe you are right about the experience stuff ..
>
> I use a chronological resume now .. tough to write a functional only
resume
> ..
>
> Not really used to hunting for jobs, I have only held 4 in my life but
> recently I have looked around the Seattle area and there seem to be alot
of
> 60-70k MCSE type jobs in the area.
>
> Thanks for the advice,
>
> Robyn Myers
>
> "Skip" <Skip@NoAddress.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3484ee175a3f24e3061562335
ee30729@news.1usenet.com...
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:46:19 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
> > <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Your wrong!
> > >I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k
is[co
lor=darkred]
> > >the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs[/color]
and[c
olor=darkred]
> > >tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour[/color]
grapes'
> to
> > >me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and
> experience
> > >(thats me) gets at least 70k.
> >
> > I hope you are not basing your argument on an issue of MCP magazine.
> > For another source of information, try reading some of the "top
> > stories" at http://www.washtech.org/wt/ for a general view of what is
> > happening in the IT job market.
> >
> > >Companies will dump people to save money, but
> > >they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to
> dump
> > >key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> > >though..... expect bonuses instead.
> > >
> >
> > You must be working with a different breed of managers than those I
> > have worked with for 30 years. Their personal priorities do not lend
> > themselves to thinking long term, or having a long memory. They are
> > generally concerned with looking good this month, or if they are
> > visionary, looking good 3 months from now. (I should add that I have
> > worked with some GREAT managers, but they seem to be rare).
> >
> > >
> > >Robyn Myers
> > >MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> > >computer business)
> > >
> >
> > If I may, I would like to offer a genuine word of advice. If you ever
> > do find yourself looking for another IT job, I would not mention "27
> > years in the computer business" on your resume. :-) Go with a
> > functional resume instead of a chronological one.
> >
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > We contemplate eternity
> > Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
> >
> > - Warren Zevon
>
>
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-18, 9:26 pm |
| Just went to that site you mentioned and I am not sure I trust them. It
appears to be a radical 'keep our IT jobs in the US' web site. They have
been known to 'stretch the truth' so be careful of them .. good for a look
at the other side. Thanks for the site address though ..
http://www.washtech.org/wt/
Of course MCT magazine slants the truth too, maybe reality is somewhere in
between ..
Good luck
Robyn Myers
"Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:y580b.5705$LL1.2241979437@twister2.starband.net...
> Yes I will contact you. The wife and I are thinking of moving to the
Seattle
> area for a change. She is from the Pacific Rim and has been here in
Florida
> for two years. She is looking for a change in the weather and scenery. I
> figure with my degrees, certs, and experience I can at least make 50-60k,
> pay the bills. Then restart my consultant business. I am also retired
> military and I see more military benefits in that area.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Robyn Myers
>
>
> PS My email is ramyers(nospam)@starband.net if you want to send the resume
> web site. thanks again.
>
> "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:E5h%a.1695$bD4.76944430@twister1.starband.net...
> > Hmm maybe you are right about the experience stuff ..
> >
> > I use a chronological resume now .. tough to write a functional only
> resume
> > ..
> >
> > Not really used to hunting for jobs, I have only held 4 in my life but
> > recently I have looked around the Seattle area and there seem to be alot
> of
> > 60-70k MCSE type jobs in the area.
> >
> > Thanks for the advice,
> >
> > Robyn Myers
> >
> > "Skip" <Skip@NoAddress.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:3484ee175a3f24e3061562335
ee30729@news.1usenet.com...
> > > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:46:19 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
> > > <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Your wrong!
> > > >I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and
65-85k
> is
> > > >the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs
> and
> > > >tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour
> grapes'
> > to
> > > >me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and
> > experience
> > > >(thats me) gets at least 70k.
> > >
> > > I hope you are not basing your argument on an issue of MCP magazine.
> > > For another source of information, try reading some of the "top
> > > stories" at http://www.washtech.org/wt/ for a general view of what is
> > > happening in the IT job market.
> > >
> > > >Companies will dump people to save money, but
> > > >they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to
> > dump
> > > >key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> > > >though..... expect bonuses instead.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You must be working with a different breed of managers than those I
> > > have worked with for 30 years. Their personal priorities do not lend
> > > themselves to thinking long term, or having a long memory. They are
> > > generally concerned with looking good this month, or if they are
> > > visionary, looking good 3 months from now. (I should add that I have
> > > worked with some GREAT managers, but they seem to be rare).
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Robyn Myers
> > > >MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > > >computer business)
> > > >
> > >
> > > If I may, I would like to offer a genuine word of advice. If you ever
> > > do find yourself looking for another IT job, I would not mention "27
> > > years in the computer business" on your resume. :-) Go with a
> > > functional resume instead of a chronological one.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------
> > >
> > > We contemplate eternity
> > > Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
> > >
> > > - Warren Zevon
> >
> >
>
>[/color]
| |
| 127.0.0.1 2003-08-18, 9:26 pm |
|
"Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:y580b.5705$LL1.2241979437@twister2.starband.net...
> Yes I will contact you. The wife and I are thinking of moving to the
Seattle
> area for a change. She is from the Pacific Rim and has been here in
Florida
> for two years. She is looking for a change in the weather and scenery. I
> figure with my degrees, certs, and experience I can at least make 50-60k,
> pay the bills. Then restart my consultant business. I am also retired
> military and I see more military benefits in that area.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Robyn Myers
i'm moving to clermont florida in 1.5 years (wife finishing up nursing
school).
hows the IT recruitment in the orlando area? or should i start taking
spanish lessons?
i only have 2 years in the network engineering (promoted from network
technician) and at my age (tail end of the 30's), i'm considering changing
my career path back to graphic design (work from home freelancer). there are
way too many laid off experienced co-workers close to home fighting for
entry level jobs. friends have convinced my family and i to move down close
to them in a gated luxury community.
- a|ex
| |
|
| "127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
> i'm moving to clermont florida in 1.5 years (wife finishing up nursing
> school).
> hows the IT recruitment in the orlando area? or should i start taking
> spanish lessons?
I live close to Clermont. Clermont is a nice place to live, but it is far
removed from most conveniences, which you may or may not like.
The job market in Orlando is very bad right now. IT is especially bad.
Disney has a hiring freeze right now, and that ripples throughout our
economy. Orlando is a one-horse-town if ever there was one, although
Lockheed Martin is also a pretty big horse. Still, tourism is the name of
the game here, and since 9/11, tourism has been in the tank, and the rest of
our economy along with it. You will NOT find a good IT job here. Period.
Maybe, and hopefully, in 18 months that will change.
As for learning spanish, I would highly recommend it if you're going to live
in Florida. For many jobs, it will send your resume to the top of the pile.
Learn not only how to speak it, but also how to WRITE it.
| |
|
| On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:49:23 GMT, "Mr. Robyn Myers"
<ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote:
>Just went to that site you mentioned and I am not sure I trust them. It
>appears to be a radical 'keep our IT jobs in the US' web site. They have
>been known to 'stretch the truth' so be careful of them .. good for a look
>at the other side. Thanks for the site address though ..
>
>http://www.washtech.org/wt/
>
>Of course MCT magazine slants the truth too, maybe reality is somewhere in
>between ..
>
>Good luck
>Robyn Myers
>
I agree that washtech.org is a special interest site. However, the
news stories that they provide links to, are your basic general news
organizations such as CNN, ABC, etc. Hopefully those stories should
carry some credibility.
----------------------------
We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
- Warren Zevon
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-19, 9:26 pm |
| As far as I know Orlando is doing well in the IT area. Lots of movie work,
etc there .. new business too.
I am in a semi-rural area, (Fort Myers) so IT jobs are thin here ..
Good luck
Robyn Myers
"127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote in message
news:nSe0b.733$kd3.116@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:y580b.5705$LL1.2241979437@twister2.starband.net...
> > Yes I will contact you. The wife and I are thinking of moving to the
> Seattle
> > area for a change. She is from the Pacific Rim and has been here in
> Florida
> > for two years. She is looking for a change in the weather and scenery. I
> > figure with my degrees, certs, and experience I can at least make
50-60k,
> > pay the bills. Then restart my consultant business. I am also retired
> > military and I see more military benefits in that area.
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Robyn Myers
>
> i'm moving to clermont florida in 1.5 years (wife finishing up nursing
> school).
> hows the IT recruitment in the orlando area? or should i start taking
> spanish lessons?
>
> i only have 2 years in the network engineering (promoted from network
> technician) and at my age (tail end of the 30's), i'm considering changing
> my career path back to graphic design (work from home freelancer). there
are
> way too many laid off experienced co-workers close to home fighting for
> entry level jobs. friends have convinced my family and i to move down
close
> to them in a gated luxury community.
>
> - a|ex
>
>
| |
|
| "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:5fz0b.5945$xo2.2272174151@twister2.starband.net...
> As far as I know Orlando is doing well in the IT area. Lots of movie work,
> etc there .. new business too.
Robyn, I practically live in Disney's backyard, and from what you have just
posted, I can say with metaphysical certitude that you have no idea what you
are talking about. The IT market in Orlando is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. There
aren't any IT jobs here. Period. Disney has a hiring freeze. And
Imagineering came within INCHES of being entirely moved to California just a
few months ago. Tourism is at an all-time low. There is nothing good
happening here right now. Nada.
| |
| =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= 2003-08-20, 9:26 am |
| "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
news:5fz0b.5945$xo2.2272174151@twister2.starband.net...
> As far as I know Orlando is doing well in the IT area. Lots of movie work,
> etc there .. new business too.
>
> I am in a semi-rural area, (Fort Myers) so IT jobs are thin here ..
Are you a descendant of the founder or something?
Must be cool to live in a town named with your surname.
My mother-in-law lives in that area, specifically she lived in Alva. We've
been down there to see her a few times in the past, we live in Gainesville,
quite a drive. She's in a nursing home down there somewhere now.
My 4th great-grandfather founded my hometown in Pennsylvania, but I don't
share his surname, and the town hasn't used his surname for nearly 200
years.
--
Fris "Ft. Frisbee" beeŽ MCNGP #13
http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-20, 4:30 pm |
| OK, if you say so. My info is old, anyway I said as far as I know. Since it
is a larger market there must be some action, many millions of people live
there so the businesses need SYS ADMs etc ..
Robyn Myers
"Bob" <bob@bobber.com> wrote in message
news:llz0b.60086$On2.3101537@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:5fz0b.5945$xo2.2272174151@twister2.starband.net...
> > As far as I know Orlando is doing well in the IT area. Lots of movie
work,
> > etc there .. new business too.
>
> Robyn, I practically live in Disney's backyard, and from what you have
just
> posted, I can say with metaphysical certitude that you have no idea what
you
> are talking about. The IT market in Orlando is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. There
> aren't any IT jobs here. Period. Disney has a hiring freeze. And
> Imagineering came within INCHES of being entirely moved to California just
a
> few months ago. Tourism is at an all-time low. There is nothing good
> happening here right now. Nada.
>
>
| |
| Mr. Robyn Myers 2003-08-20, 4:30 pm |
| Actually no .. name is just a coincidence .. my great-grandfather founded a
town in PA too. Named for the river running through it. Cedar Run ..
.. people still spell my name wrong too even here ..
Alva is a quaint town ..been there a few times.
Robyn Myers
"FrisbeeŽ MCNGP" <bhileman@dasi-software.com> wrote in message
news:bhvrhm$3p1gd$1@ID-123564.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:5fz0b.5945$xo2.2272174151@twister2.starband.net...
> > As far as I know Orlando is doing well in the IT area. Lots of movie
work,
> > etc there .. new business too.
> >
> > I am in a semi-rural area, (Fort Myers) so IT jobs are thin here ..
>
> Are you a descendant of the founder or something?
>
> Must be cool to live in a town named with your surname.
>
> My mother-in-law lives in that area, specifically she lived in Alva.
We've
> been down there to see her a few times in the past, we live in
Gainesville,
> quite a drive. She's in a nursing home down there somewhere now.
>
> My 4th great-grandfather founded my hometown in Pennsylvania, but I don't
> share his surname, and the town hasn't used his surname for nearly 200
> years.
>
>
> --
> Fris "Ft. Frisbee" beeŽ MCNGP #13
>
> http://www.mcngp.tk
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
| |
| peter_walters@juno.com 2003-08-22, 5:29 pm |
| Robyn,
I have read the 26 posts in this thread so far and am not sure if I am
humored or puzzled by your posts. If I could throw a few points your
way.
1. There are no jobs in IT/IT on the west coast. The job postings
you see in newspapers and online are corporate HR departments trying
to maintain respectable relations with the communities at large.
2. Your salary statistics and expectations are false to the current
economic environment.
3. As of right now, anyone I know in IT/IS is terrified that his or
her job is going to Bangalore.
4. If you make over $50K a year working for a multinational
corporation in IT/IS you are in significant danger of losing your job
in the next two years.
Peter
"Mr. Robyn Myers" <ramyers(nospam)@starband.net> wrote in message news:<5Mg_a.4786$un6.2095817764@twister2.starband.net>...
> Your wrong!
> I have been looking around recently, just to stay prepared, and 65-85k is
> the standard for MCSEs with 5-10 years experience on a variety of OSs and
> tools. Not programmers either .. just sys adms. Sounds like 'sour grapes' to
> me .. check the latest issue of MCP mag . a MCSE with a MCT and experience
> (thats me) gets at least 70k. Companies will dump people to save money, but
> they were burned on this issue in the past and will be less likely to dump
> key staff in the future. I think raises may be few and far between
> though..... expect bonuses instead.
>
>
> Robyn Myers
> MCP+I, MCSE (2k and NT), MCT, A+, NET+, MOS (word 02) (27 years in the
> computer business)
|
|
|
|
|