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| Mick Fly 2003-07-09, 12:26 am |
| How I hate to see people in my company lose their jobs! Like the guy in the
office next to me today packing up his stuff at the end of this day, given a
5 minute notice to pack up and leave. It was not a firing, but a layoff.
The third set of layoffs in the past year and a half. Once a company of
400+ employees, now a company of about 270 and dropping fast. What is
happening in this country?
I work for a manufacturing company here in the midwest as a network
administrator. Primarily metal forgings and machining, etc. NOTE: The
whole company is non-union, good true blooded Americans who work hard and
don't complain. My ex-IT-co-worker is a programmer and took care of the
phone system too, as well as some of the esoteric out-of-date
nowhere-else-being used in-the-world ERP programs we use. A good guy, good
employee, just let go. Adios and vaya con dios! I wish him luck in his job
search - at 45 yrs old he'll need it.
It is a shame that, to a lesser and lesser degree, do we actually make and
build things in this country anymore. All these jobs are now going to
Mexico and God knows where else. (Coincidentally, my wife's Volkswagen is
made in Mexico, and that damn $22,000 car has more squeaks and rattles than
the Chevette my dad drove in 1977!) Our competitors overseas can make
similar products for less money, not just because they might be paid less,
but here is the kicker - even if they make the same wage, they are making
these products at the same cost but selling them for less because their
revenues are subsidized by their government. How do you compete with that?
Who will protect our US companies from that type of cherry-picking?
We are now becoming a country who provides services but no products. And
many of these 'services' I am less than impressed with. We're all a bunch
of salesmen and worthless consultants now, full of fluff and hot air,
lacking any true skills, unable to actually make anything of value to be
sold to our own people much less anywhere else. You don't need skills
anymore - just the ability to bullshit and put a happy face on bad business.
Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. Hopefully I am very wrong in my
analysis. Perhaps I've missed something here, but it's just a damn shame
and I had to get it off my chest. Will there still be good-paying jobs in
this country in 10 years? Who knows? Maybe I'll start reading some books
on how to win friends and influence people, dress like a handsome pimp and
be a fast-talking GQ clown - or keep adding designations to my name until I
can't fit them on my business car anymore. How absurd!
McFly
| |
|
| "Mick Fly" <mcfly@nowhere.com> wrote in news:LNMOa.389627$VP.58702897
@twister.neo.rr.com:
> I wish him luck in his job
> search - at 45 yrs old he'll need it.
Why is that?
--
Phil M.
MCSE - NT4/2000
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| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-09, 9:25 am |
| >Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. Hopefully I am very wrong in my
>analysis.
I agree with all you say.
I mean..... I know people who bar tend who make more
than VERY skilled people I work with.
It seems society places its "value" on people very
strangely now days.
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| Maynard 2003-07-09, 10:25 am |
|
"Phil" <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns93B383679A11pmargchart
ernet@65.82.44.187...
> "Mick Fly" <mcfly@nowhere.com> wrote in news:LNMOa.389627$VP.58702897
> @twister.neo.rr.com:
>
> > I wish him luck in his job
> > search - at 45 yrs old he'll need it.
>
> Why is that?
>
Because anyone over 35 is too 'old' for IT these days. Many people are
reporting on interviews that they knew they would not get a positions
because they were over 35. Part of the reason is your benefits cost and that
a younger person is more willing to work the 60 hour work week that is
becoming common for many IT positions.
I'm 40 and have been replaced by much younger and way less skilled people
for the third and final time in IT.
So if you are working on your MCSE or other cert and you do not have a
current IT job and you are above 35 you are wasting your time.
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-09, 11:26 am |
| >I'm 40 and have been replaced by much younger and way less skilled people
>for the third and final time in IT.
Soooo...... WHAT field should one get into if not for
IT?
Especially if they are 45?
| |
| Wilson 2003-07-09, 12:26 pm |
|
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5e5ogv4nbpqhciij4nua5ss7k
t2smppaa4@4ax.com...
> >Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. Hopefully I am very wrong in my
> >analysis.
>
> I agree with all you say.
>
> I mean..... I know people who bar tend who make more
> than VERY skilled people I work with.
>
> It seems society places its "value" on people very
> strangely now days.
Just supply and demand in action. IT people are many and growing while IT
jobs are few and dwindling so the market reflects that.
It ain't going to be getting better anytime soon.
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-09, 12:26 pm |
| >Just supply and demand in action. IT people are many and growing while IT
>jobs are few and dwindling so the market reflects that.
>
>It ain't going to be getting better anytime soon.
I understand
But have you ever noticed how much money bar tenders
and waitresses can make??
I know both who make GOOOD money.... and Im not putting
their jobs down at al.... but it doesn't take a lot of
tech skills to be a waitress or bar tender.
| |
| Wilson 2003-07-09, 12:26 pm |
|
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r5fogvom6u7ujms25f513bpuk
0icc388p2@4ax.com...
> >Just supply and demand in action. IT people are many and growing while IT
> >jobs are few and dwindling so the market reflects that.
> >
> >It ain't going to be getting better anytime soon.
>
> I understand
>
> But have you ever noticed how much money bar tenders
> and waitresses can make??
>
> I know both who make GOOOD money.... and Im not putting
> their jobs down at al.... but it doesn't take a lot of
> tech skills to be a waitress or bar tender.
It does take people skills to rake in the tips.
| |
| Adam Leinss 2003-07-09, 8:25 pm |
| john63401@yahoo.com wrote in
news:r5fogvom6u7ujms25f513bpuk
0icc388p2@4ax.com:
>>Just supply and demand in action. IT people are many and growing
>>while IT jobs are few and dwindling so the market reflects that.
>>
>>It ain't going to be getting better anytime soon.
>
> I understand
>
> But have you ever noticed how much money bar tenders
> and waitresses can make??
>
> I know both who make GOOOD money.... and Im not putting
> their jobs down at al.... but it doesn't take a lot of
> tech skills to be a waitress or bar tender.
Those type of people usually work VERY hard for their money.
Adam
| |
|
| If you think 45 is a tough age to get a job, try 60!
I just went through it, it was not pleasant but with a positive
attitude, it can be done. It is funny working in a tech environment at
my age where most of the guys and gals are in their early 20's. When I
went for interviews, it was like they were looking behind me as I walked
in the door wondering where the 20 year old was at.
We all need to try to trade with American companies that use American
goods and services. We also need to improve our work ethics back to the
point that it was when I was growing up during WWII. When I was a kid
if someone gave us a Jap pocket knife, we probably would have thrown it
away or turned it down in the first place. At that time, everyone was
working to move the US ahead. We went from basically a farm oriented
nation to the greatest industrial empire in a matter of just a few years.
I believe that we have the finest minds in the world and our national
resources and ethnic mix lends itself to some healthy competition within
just like we had early on in this country when the employers played
races and nationalities against one another in order to create
competition and increase productivity and hence our gross national product.
Our flaw here in America in my opinion is that we need to return to
doing things that are good for the country as a whole and that does not
include commuting in Beemers, buying the old lady a Toyota, writing with
a Zebra pen, drinking from a Nissan coffee mug, or for that matter
buying or doing anything that does not improve our position in the
international market place
Made in the USA!
It has a great ring to it, doesn't it?
Ray
ps: For those outside of the US, I mean no harm unless your country is
one of those that seeks to dominate our industries such as Japan does.
Being satisfied with some of our business is one thing, trying to
dominate it like was done with our auto and electronics industries is
quite another and should never have been allowed to happened.
Phil wrote:
> "Mick Fly" <mcfly@nowhere.com> wrote in news:LNMOa.389627$VP.58702897
> @twister.neo.rr.com:
>
>
>>I wish him luck in his job
>>search - at 45 yrs old he'll need it.
>
>
> Why is that?
>
| |
|
| "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in
news:bMUOa.1534$zJ6.20@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com:
>
> "Phil" <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns93B383679A11pmargchart
ernet@65.82.44.187...
>> "Mick Fly" <mcfly@nowhere.com> wrote in news:LNMOa.389627$VP.58702897
>> @twister.neo.rr.com:
>>
>> > I wish him luck in his job
>> > search - at 45 yrs old he'll need it.
>>
>> Why is that?
>>
>
> Because anyone over 35 is too 'old' for IT these days. Many people are
> reporting on interviews that they knew they would not get a positions
> because they were over 35. Part of the reason is your benefits cost
> and that a younger person is more willing to work the 60 hour work
> week that is becoming common for many IT positions.
>
> I'm 40 and have been replaced by much younger and way less skilled
> people for the third and final time in IT.
>
>
> So if you are working on your MCSE or other cert and you do not have a
> current IT job and you are above 35 you are wasting your time.
I must be the exception to your "rule." At the tender age of 40 I was
terminated from my sales mangement job. A job which I held for 14 years.
I went back to school full time and received an associates degree in CIS
(computer information systems). Durring my last semester I also took
Microsoft's MOC course for MCSE. By the time I graduated in '99 I already
passed 3 MCSE courses on the NT4 track and had attained MCP. 2 months
later I landed a job as Network Administrator/Facility manager of a small
computer consulting firm. I was mostly doing desktop support and setting
up classes for Oracle DBA certification classes. 6 months later I
finished the rest of my MCSE exams and was an MCSE on NT4. After a year
working there, the company was forced to cut back. The company
regretfully let me go since they had a consultant that was going to step
back and take over my job. 3 weeks later, with an updated resume and
glowing references, I landed a job as network adminstrator of a regional
hospital. Since then, I have upgraded my MCSE to Windows 2000.
Now I'm 46. I'm making a very good salary. But more importantly, I love
my work and would gladly do it for half the pay. I know this sounds
corny, but I think that regardless of your age, if you have the right
attitude and work hard, you can achieve your goals.
-Phil
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-10, 9:26 am |
| >If you think 45 is a tough age to get a job, try 60!
>
>I just went through it, it was not pleasant but with a positive
>attitude, it can be done.
Tell us your story Ray!
Id love to hear it....as Im 45 myself
| |
|
| The story is this:
Stay positive
Network with everyone that you know - Networking gets jobs better than
any other method.
Study all that you can and when you have a spare moment, study more.
Be willing to work harder than everyone else does.
Express a burning desire to learn instead of an Aires that you know
everything that you need to know.
I found a great job as a Configuration Manager, the company got me a
Secret Clearance and I am treated as a professional.
You can do it too! Don't get discouraged...
Ray
john63401@yahoo.com wrote:
>>If you think 45 is a tough age to get a job, try 60!
>>
>>I just went through it, it was not pleasant but with a positive
>>attitude, it can be done.
>
>
> Tell us your story Ray!
>
> Id love to hear it....as Im 45 myself
| |
| Jesse Meyer 2003-07-11, 1:25 am |
| Mick Fly <mcfly@nowhere.com> wrote:
> [...] Our competitors overseas can make
> similar products for less money, not just because they might be paid less,
> but here is the kicker - even if they make the same wage, they are making
> these products at the same cost but selling them for less because their
> revenues are subsidized by their government. How do you compete with that?
> Who will protect our US companies from that type of cherry-picking?
Maybe OT, but Africa is rather annoyed at the US for subsidizing
agriculture, thus driving down crop prices. Under free trade, Africa
currently has to compete with a US that has a habit of subsidizing its
farmers/agribusiness.
~ Jesse Meyer
--
icq: 34583382 / msn: dasunt@hotmail.com / yim: tsunad
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we
pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr : Mother Night
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-21, 11:26 am |
| >The story is this:
>
>Stay positive
I realize that the job prospects in the IT industry are
VERY bad now....and that an MCSE doesn't mean a whole
lot.... but to my way of thinking I don't see anything
"wrong" with having IT knowledge as well as maybe other
experience ...... do you?
I mean..... why cant a person be "multi-skiled" now
days? Have IT knowledge and experience but other skill
sets as well?
What's your opinion on the whole IT industry "woes"
right now? And the value of having IT skills and the
MCSE?
| |
| Michael 2003-07-21, 12:25 pm |
| You are absolutely right. I am one of the lucky one out there still have a
job. However, the pay is still suck!
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h30ohvgt3skre3nt79dv981jm
3ifh3bs8i@4ax.com...
> >The story is this:
> >
> >Stay positive
>
> I realize that the job prospects in the IT industry are
> VERY bad now....and that an MCSE doesn't mean a whole
> lot.... but to my way of thinking I don't see anything
> "wrong" with having IT knowledge as well as maybe other
> experience ...... do you?
>
> I mean..... why cant a person be "multi-skiled" now
> days? Have IT knowledge and experience but other skill
> sets as well?
>
> What's your opinion on the whole IT industry "woes"
> right now? And the value of having IT skills and the
> MCSE?
| |
| john63401@yahoo.com 2003-07-21, 2:26 pm |
| >You are absolutely right. I am one of the lucky one out there still have a
>job. However, the pay is still suck!
Do you still have a job in IT??
I guess Ive just been thinking that maybe that's the
way to find some success in this economy now days....
to be multi-skilled.
How abt having IT knowledge and experience.... but also
knowing bartending or going to a bartending school?
| |
|
| Yes I still have IT job....and it is a good job too. As far as
Bartender....I've been there and done that.
<john63401@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news 1aohvcovgcqbul7kf9aqdhco
8uesftheu@4ax.com...
> >You are absolutely right. I am one of the lucky one out there still have
a
> >job. However, the pay is still suck!
>
> Do you still have a job in IT??
>
> I guess Ive just been thinking that maybe that's the
> way to find some success in this economy now days....
> to be multi-skilled.
>
> How abt having IT knowledge and experience.... but also
> knowing bartending or going to a bartending school?
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