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Author Goodbye IT World
Bubbie

2003-06-20, 3:25 pm

Today was the last straw that broke the camels back...yet another rejection
for a job...not even getting shortlisted for an interview. Network
technician. Had all the right skills and qualifications but not getting
shortlisted why? Because I had never worked in a school.! Surely thier
network is no different than than any other ?

Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much as
a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...

So Mr M$ and Mr Cisco, I aint spending more time and money recertifying just
to keep your company revenue up. The only people gaining from this scam are
the people advertising IT jobs and training courses etc...

Listen folks don't waste your time and money...Have two good friends who
work in IT who have never certified and don't intend to...it proves nothing
except a fool and his money are soon parted...especially if you fail an
exam...must be the easiest £100 M$ or Cisco ever make. As for me, I work for
aGlobal IT company and I'm nothing more than a mobile screwdriver...can't
find any certifications on that. I'm getting out cos I'm worth more than
that!

Goodbye IT...


whenindoubt

2003-06-20, 3:25 pm

Sounds like my area of the world. i.e. Connecticut. The insurance company
capital of the world. Aetna, Cigna, The Hartford, ING, Citigroup, Travelers,
United Technologies, Stanley Tools, Pratt and Whitney, etc. Yet not one is
hiring IT people. I think you and me should start our own training center.
We'll get rich selling certifications!
whenindoubt

"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4xJIa.421$nG4.359@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> Today was the last straw that broke the camels back...yet another

rejection
> for a job...not even getting shortlisted for an interview. Network
> technician. Had all the right skills and qualifications but not getting
> shortlisted why? Because I had never worked in a school.! Surely thier
> network is no different than than any other ?
>
> Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much

as
> a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
>
> So Mr M$ and Mr Cisco, I aint spending more time and money recertifying

just
> to keep your company revenue up. The only people gaining from this scam

are
> the people advertising IT jobs and training courses etc...
>
> Listen folks don't waste your time and money...Have two good friends who
> work in IT who have never certified and don't intend to...it proves

nothing
> except a fool and his money are soon parted...especially if you fail an
> exam...must be the easiest £100 M$ or Cisco ever make. As for me, I work

for
> aGlobal IT company and I'm nothing more than a mobile screwdriver...can't
> find any certifications on that. I'm getting out cos I'm worth more than
> that!
>
> Goodbye IT...
>
>
>



Techie

2003-06-20, 5:25 pm

DO you have real world experience or just what you learned in school?

--
Techie
A+, Network+, MCP, MCNGP #21

"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4xJIa.421$nG4.359@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> Today was the last straw that broke the camels back...yet another

rejection
> for a job...not even getting shortlisted for an interview. Network
> technician. Had all the right skills and qualifications but not getting
> shortlisted why? Because I had never worked in a school.! Surely thier
> network is no different than than any other ?
>
> Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much

as
> a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
>
> So Mr M$ and Mr Cisco, I aint spending more time and money recertifying

just
> to keep your company revenue up. The only people gaining from this scam

are
> the people advertising IT jobs and training courses etc...
>
> Listen folks don't waste your time and money...Have two good friends who
> work in IT who have never certified and don't intend to...it proves

nothing
> except a fool and his money are soon parted...especially if you fail an
> exam...must be the easiest £100 M$ or Cisco ever make. As for me, I work

for
> aGlobal IT company and I'm nothing more than a mobile screwdriver...can't
> find any certifications on that. I'm getting out cos I'm worth more than
> that!
>
> Goodbye IT...
>
>



The Oracle

2003-06-20, 6:25 pm

Sorry to hear that story Bubbie,
What are you going to do? How old are you? I know what you mean because I
am a CCIE and it ain't much better for us either my friend. To be honest, I
reckon a lot of people will secretly envy your courage in taking this
stance. This industry was supposed to be the start of a brave new world
only four years ago. Now look what happens when it gets full of paper
certified people. See my post below titled "mcse people are pussies". I
regret the initial thrread title since I offended some people when I was
only trying to make a point. However, my sentiment still stands.

Hey. Why don't you go to law school or medical school? Look into it. Hey
man, the glass is always half full, never half empty. Some of the biggest
captains of industry have emerged from people who know when to quit when the
games has run it's course. And I tell you now, MCSE has run it's course.
Period.

From your ntlworld account, I guess you are in the UK? Where? I am in
Nottingham.

Steve


"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4xJIa.421$nG4.359@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> Today was the last straw that broke the camels back...yet another

rejection
> for a job...not even getting shortlisted for an interview. Network
> technician. Had all the right skills and qualifications but not getting
> shortlisted why? Because I had never worked in a school.! Surely thier
> network is no different than than any other ?
>
> Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much

as
> a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
>
> So Mr M$ and Mr Cisco, I aint spending more time and money recertifying

just
> to keep your company revenue up. The only people gaining from this scam

are
> the people advertising IT jobs and training courses etc...
>
> Listen folks don't waste your time and money...Have two good friends who
> work in IT who have never certified and don't intend to...it proves

nothing
> except a fool and his money are soon parted...especially if you fail an
> exam...must be the easiest £100 M$ or Cisco ever make. As for me, I work

for
> aGlobal IT company and I'm nothing more than a mobile screwdriver...can't
> find any certifications on that. I'm getting out cos I'm worth more than
> that!
>
> Goodbye IT...
>
>



RussS

2003-06-20, 6:25 pm

Hate to tell you Oracle, but the reason the CCIE numbers are so low is that
many people just do not see the need to achieve those certifications. If
one is going to chase certification it is much better to choose those which
your local employers see as being desireable.

--
RussS
MCP W2K Pro & Server, A+, Net+

http://www.techexams.net/


Bubbie

2003-06-20, 7:26 pm

Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of it
administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it matter? And
what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at school...I
got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make me a
Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist? The thing
with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain period of
time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a particular day.
Nothing else...

What am I gonna do?

I'm gonna be a Police Officer !

So long IT World...


Maynard

2003-06-20, 7:26 pm

OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you are over
35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35 working
in IT department for a number of reasons.

Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled over
onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've seen it
done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the positions
really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
candidate for the 'grunt' work.

Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed for
positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll work
for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.



"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of it
> administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it matter?

And
> what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at

school...I
> got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make me a
> Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist? The

thing
> with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed

on.
> They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain period

of
> time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a particular

day.
> Nothing else...
>
> What am I gonna do?
>
> I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
>
> So long IT World...
>
>




Smoi

2003-06-21, 4:25 am

>. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
>average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've seen it

done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the positions
really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
>candidate for the 'grunt' work.


do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do from
the desc you have given..

listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap! i
cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this reality
bull crap!

let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have been
in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any oppurtunity
to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i have
seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial level
position!

i dont think you have done that?

ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are applying
to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and plus
you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you can
just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be overqualified..
so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!

this is just my thought..

IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot then
go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work in
Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..

become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to those
young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..




"Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you are

over
> 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35

working
> in IT department for a number of reasons.
>
> Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled over
> onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've seen it
> done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the positions
> really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> candidate for the 'grunt' work.
>
> Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed for
> positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll work
> for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
>
>
>
> "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of it
> > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it matter?

> And
> > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at

> school...I
> > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make me a
> > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist? The

> thing
> > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed

> on.
> > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain period

> of
> > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a particular

> day.
> > Nothing else...
> >
> > What am I gonna do?
> >
> > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> >
> > So long IT World...
> >
> >

>
>
>



Bubbie

2003-06-21, 6:25 am



> do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do

from
> the desc you have given..


Some of the most effective managers come from the (British) armed forces
where by they are promoted on merit and time served...not I may add like the
American forces where you get promotion just by turning up for a year. Don't
know any of them that have a MSc

>
> listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap! i
> cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this reality
> bull crap!


Nowhere did I say there were no jobs...I just said that that I was fed up of
not getting an interview
>
> let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have

been
> in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

oppurtunity
> to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
> just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i have
> seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

level
> position!
>
> i dont think you have done that?


I never once mentioned I want to be a manager. See above text.. These days
it don't matter what your degree is in. A BSc in basket weaving will more
likely get you an unrelated job than no BSc at all.
>
> ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

applying
> to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
> qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

plus
> you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you

can
> just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be overqualified..
> so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!


Never said that I was applying for entry level jobs. I apply for positions
within my skill range & expected salary range. On this occaision..I had
everything that they asked for but didn't get an interview due to not having
worked in a school (which was a desirable not a requirement). However, other
applicants that mentioned they had worked in a school got an interview,
despite having less than the stated required experience....
>
> this is just my thought..
>
> IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot then
> go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work

in
> Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
>
> become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

those
> young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..


Nope don't hurt me mate. Truth is that the IT indusrty is not all that it is
hyped up to be..Prolly do me good to get back into a uniform anyway...and if
the young people that I'm giving way to in IT are of the same calibre of the
young 'uns that I have seen joing the military recently, then its no wonder
that the industry is in such a shit state !


The Oracle

2003-06-21, 6:25 am

I agree with you RussS. Completely.

"RussS" <yeah_right@roflmao.com> wrote in message
news:exMIa.41815$JA5.733935@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Hate to tell you Oracle, but the reason the CCIE numbers are so low is

that
> many people just do not see the need to achieve those certifications. If
> one is going to chase certification it is much better to choose those

which
> your local employers see as being desireable.
>
> --
> RussS
> MCP W2K Pro & Server, A+, Net+
>
> http://www.techexams.net/
>
>



The Oracle

2003-06-21, 6:25 am

Brilliant stuff Bubbie !! I really wish you well mate. Is it with
Nottinghamshire Police at Epperstone where you are starting?

"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of it
> administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it matter?

And
> what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at

school...I
> got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make me a
> Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist? The

thing
> with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed

on.
> They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain period

of
> time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a particular

day.
> Nothing else...
>
> What am I gonna do?
>
> I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
>
> So long IT World...
>
>



The Oracle

2003-06-21, 6:25 am

You are an idiot. Speaking from a nice comfy $70000 job are we? Well, lose
that job and try to get another on even a third of that money.

Sure there are jobs out there. But not for just MCSE (utterly worthless).
Evenif you do have experience. You'll need to have networking, microsoft,
unix, cabling and all manner of experience if you want to be paid a
reasonable wage.


"Smoi" <Smoi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1056186079.117039@ns2.1earth.net...
> >. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> >average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've seen

it
> done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the

positions
> really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> >candidate for the 'grunt' work.

>
> do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do

from
> the desc you have given..
>
> listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap! i
> cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this reality
> bull crap!
>
> let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have

been
> in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

oppurtunity
> to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
> just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i have
> seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

level
> position!
>
> i dont think you have done that?
>
> ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

applying
> to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
> qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

plus
> you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you

can
> just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be overqualified..
> so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!
>
> this is just my thought..
>
> IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot then
> go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work

in
> Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
>
> become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

those
> young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..
>
>
>
>
> "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you are

> over
> > 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35

> working
> > in IT department for a number of reasons.
> >
> > Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled

over
> > onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've seen

it
> > done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the

positions
> > really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> >
> > Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed for
> > positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll

work
> > for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of

it[co
lor=darkred]
> > > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it
[/color]
matter?
> > And
> > > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at

> > school...I
> > > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> > > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make me

a[col
or=darkred]
> > > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist? The

> > thing
> > > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are
[/color]
printed
> > on.
> > > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain

period
> > of
> > > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a particular

> > day.
> > > Nothing else...
> > >
> > > What am I gonna do?
> > >
> > > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> > >
> > > So long IT World...
> > >
> > >

> >
> >
> >

>
>



John Abreau

2003-06-21, 7:25 am

> I never once mentioned I want to be a manager. See above text.. These days
> it don't matter what your degree is in. A BSc in basket weaving will more
> likely get you an unrelated job than no BSc at all.


yes i agree to that.. degree is just a mere requirement for getting that job
you want. It is totally up to you on what jobs you apply.. you dont just go
and apply for basket weaving jobs with holding a IT degree. it is better to
become unemployed! i know how it feels being unemployed too!


> Never said that I was applying for entry level jobs. I apply for positions
> within my skill range & expected salary range. On this occaision..I had
> everything that they asked for but didn't get an interview due to not

having
> worked in a school (which was a desirable not a requirement). However,

other
> applicants that mentioned they had worked in a school got an interview,
> despite having less than the stated required experience....



ok sorry i did a typo error. i should have said "probably you applied for
entry level job"... sorry i suffer from reading disorder.


"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:dAWIa.795$nG4.376@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
>
> > do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do

> from
> > the desc you have given..

>
> Some of the most effective managers come from the (British) armed forces
> where by they are promoted on merit and time served...not I may add like

the
> American forces where you get promotion just by turning up for a year.

Don't
> know any of them that have a MSc
>
> >
> > listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap!

i
> > cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this

reality
> > bull crap!

>
> Nowhere did I say there were no jobs...I just said that that I was fed up

of
> not getting an interview
> >
> > let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have

> been
> > in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

> oppurtunity
> > to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
> > just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i

have
> > seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

> level
> > position!
> >
> > i dont think you have done that?

>
> I never once mentioned I want to be a manager. See above text.. These days
> it don't matter what your degree is in. A BSc in basket weaving will more
> likely get you an unrelated job than no BSc at all.
> >
> > ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

> applying
> > to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
> > qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

> plus
> > you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you

> can
> > just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be

overqualified..
> > so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!

>
> Never said that I was applying for entry level jobs. I apply for positions
> within my skill range & expected salary range. On this occaision..I had
> everything that they asked for but didn't get an interview due to not

having
> worked in a school (which was a desirable not a requirement). However,

other
> applicants that mentioned they had worked in a school got an interview,
> despite having less than the stated required experience....
> >
> > this is just my thought..
> >
> > IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> > reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot

then
> > go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work

> in
> > Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
> >
> > become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

> those
> > young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..

>
> Nope don't hurt me mate. Truth is that the IT indusrty is not all that it

is
> hyped up to be..Prolly do me good to get back into a uniform anyway...and

if
> the young people that I'm giving way to in IT are of the same calibre of

the
> young 'uns that I have seen joing the military recently, then its no

wonder
> that the industry is in such a shit state !
>
>



John Abreau

2003-06-21, 7:25 am

hey oracle.. posting more smart comments hey?

yes i did say there are jobs.. but i forgot to say the requirements are not
just certs. it is also your the level of qualification and expreience that
you have. i think everyone here very well know that by now. so there is no
use of saying it over and over again!!!!!


"The Oracle" <kojaknospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bd1dja$o6i72$1@ID-179018.news.dfncis.de...
> You are an idiot. Speaking from a nice comfy $70000 job are we? Well,

lose
> that job and try to get another on even a third of that money.
>
> Sure there are jobs out there. But not for just MCSE (utterly worthless).
> Evenif you do have experience. You'll need to have networking, microsoft,
> unix, cabling and all manner of experience if you want to be paid a
> reasonable wage.
>
>
> "Smoi" <Smoi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1056186079.117039@ns2.1earth.net...
> > >. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > >average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've seen

> it
> > done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the

> positions
> > really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > >candidate for the 'grunt' work.

> >
> > do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do

> from
> > the desc you have given..
> >
> > listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap!

i
> > cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this

reality
> > bull crap!
> >
> > let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have

> been
> > in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

> oppurtunity
> > to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
> > just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i

have
> > seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

> level
> > position!
> >
> > i dont think you have done that?
> >
> > ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

> applying
> > to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
> > qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

> plus
> > you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you

> can
> > just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be

overqualified..
> > so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!
> >
> > this is just my thought..
> >
> > IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> > reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot

then
> > go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work

> in
> > Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
> >
> > become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

> those
> > young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> > news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > > OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you are

> > over
> > > 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35

> > working
> > > in IT department for a number of reasons.
> > >
> > > Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled

> over
> > > onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > > average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've seen

> it

> > > done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the

> positions
> > > really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > >
> > > Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed for
> > > positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll

> work
> > > for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of

> it

> > > > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it

> matter?
> > > And
> > > > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at
> > > school...I
> > > > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> > > > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make

me
> a
> > > > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist?

The[c
olor=darkred]
> > > thing
> > > > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are

> printed
> > > on.
> > > > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain

> period
> > > of
> > > > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a
[/color]
particular
> > > day.
> > > > Nothing else...
> > > >
> > > > What am I gonna do?
> > > >
> > > > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> > > >
> > > > So long IT World...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



The Oracle

2003-06-21, 6:24 pm

What are you talking about? Sure I am from the networking side but I am
just like one of you guys - a sufferer in the modernb climate made worse by
paper certs. I am no better or no worse than any of you dudes.

I wait for the day that honest and experienced folks can the reap the real
rewards of their labor.


"John Abreau" <johnabru@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1056195585.6413@ns2.1earth.net...
> hey oracle.. posting more smart comments hey?
>
> yes i did say there are jobs.. but i forgot to say the requirements are

not
> just certs. it is also your the level of qualification and expreience that
> you have. i think everyone here very well know that by now. so there is no
> use of saying it over and over again!!!!!
>
>
> "The Oracle" <kojaknospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bd1dja$o6i72$1@ID-179018.news.dfncis.de...
> > You are an idiot. Speaking from a nice comfy $70000 job are we? Well,

> lose
> > that job and try to get another on even a third of that money.
> >
> > Sure there are jobs out there. But not for just MCSE (utterly

worthless).
> > Evenif you do have experience. You'll need to have networking,

microsoft,
> > unix, cabling and all manner of experience if you want to be paid a
> > reasonable wage.
> >
> >
> > "Smoi" <Smoi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1056186079.117039@ns2.1earth.net...
> > > >. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > > >average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've

seen
> > it
> > > done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the

> > positions
> > > really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > >candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > >
> > > do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you

do
> > from
> > > the desc you have given..
> > >
> > > listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and

crap!
> i
> > > cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this

> reality
> > > bull crap!
> > >
> > > let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you

have
> > been
> > > in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

> > oppurtunity
> > > to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager

buy[c
olor=darkred]
> > > just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i

> have
> > > seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

> > level
> > > position!
> > >
> > > i dont think you have done that?
> > >
> > > ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

> > applying
> > > to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills
[/color]
or[co
lor=darkred]
> > > qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

> > plus
> > > you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume..
[/color]
you
> > can
> > > just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be

> overqualified..
> > > so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!
> > >
> > > this is just my thought..
> > >
> > > IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> > > reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot

> then
> > > go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options

(work

> > in
> > > Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
> > >
> > > become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

> > those
> > > young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> > > news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > > > OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you

are[c
olor=darkred]
> > > over
> > > > 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35
> > > working
> > > > in IT department for a number of reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled

> > over
> > > > onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with
[/color]
a[col
or=darkred]
> > > > average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've
[/color]
seen
> > it
> > > > done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the

> > positions
> > > > really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > > candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > > >
> > > > Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed

for[c
olor=darkred]
> > > > positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll

> > work
> > > > for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > > > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some
[/color]
of
> > it
> > > > > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it

> > matter?
> > > > And
> > > > > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at
> > > > school...I
> > > > > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A

level

> > > > > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make

> me
> > a
> > > > > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist?

> The
> > > > thing
> > > > > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are

> > printed
> > > > on.
> > > > > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain

> > period
> > > > of
> > > > > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a

> particular
> > > > day.
> > > > > Nothing else...
> > > > >
> > > > > What am I gonna do?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> > > > >
> > > > > So long IT World...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



Techie

2003-06-21, 9:24 pm

You are a major idiot "The Oracle", you could never get by being just a MCSE
you always needed all the other skills you mentioned to be a real network
admin/engineer just before companies would pay others to cover the load and
now they want the admin/engineer to do his job.

--
Techie
A+, Network+, MCP, MCNGP #21

"The Oracle" <kojaknospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bd1dja$o6i72$1@ID-179018.news.dfncis.de...
> You are an idiot. Speaking from a nice comfy $70000 job are we? Well,

lose
> that job and try to get another on even a third of that money.
>
> Sure there are jobs out there. But not for just MCSE (utterly worthless).
> Evenif you do have experience. You'll need to have networking, microsoft,
> unix, cabling and all manner of experience if you want to be paid a
> reasonable wage.
>
>
> "Smoi" <Smoi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1056186079.117039@ns2.1earth.net...
> > >. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > >average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've seen

> it
> > done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the

> positions
> > really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > >candidate for the 'grunt' work.

> >
> > do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you do

> from
> > the desc you have given..
> >
> > listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and crap!

i
> > cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this

reality
> > bull crap!
> >
> > let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you have

> been
> > in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

> oppurtunity
> > to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager buy
> > just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i

have
> > seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

> level
> > position!
> >
> > i dont think you have done that?
> >
> > ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

> applying
> > to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills or
> > qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

> plus
> > you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume.. you

> can
> > just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be

overqualified..
> > so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!
> >
> > this is just my thought..
> >
> > IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> > reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot

then
> > go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options (work

> in
> > Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
> >
> > become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

> those
> > young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> > news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > > OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you are

> > over
> > > 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35

> > working
> > > in IT department for a number of reasons.
> > >
> > > Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled

> over
> > > onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > > average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've seen

> it

> > > done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the

> positions
> > > really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > >
> > > Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed for
> > > positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll

> work
> > > for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some of

> it

> > > > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it

> matter?
> > > And
> > > > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at
> > > school...I
> > > > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A level
> > > > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make

me
> a
> > > > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist?

The[c
olor=darkred]
> > > thing
> > > > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are

> printed
> > > on.
> > > > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain

> period
> > > of
> > > > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a
[/color]
particular
> > > day.
> > > > Nothing else...
> > > >
> > > > What am I gonna do?
> > > >
> > > > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> > > >
> > > > So long IT World...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



RussS

2003-06-21, 10:25 pm

ditto Techie - 100% agreement here.

--
RussS
MCP W2K Pro & Server, A+, Net+

http://www.techexams.net/


Mark

2003-06-25, 1:24 am


"Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:dAWIa.795$nG4.376@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> Some of the most effective managers come from the (British) armed forces
> where by they are promoted on merit and time served...not I may add like

the
> American forces where you get promotion just by turning up for a year.

Don't
> know any of them that have a MSc


Your ignorance is showing, promotion in the American military is based on a
good deal more than time served. I spent 15 years in the U.S. Army and that
experience helped me get a job in IT management. It was more valuable than
my degree, Certs and IT field experience. Your statement brings doubt on
your own level of professionalism.

> Nowhere did I say there were no jobs...I just said that that I was fed up

of
> not getting an interview


We don't grant interviews to applicants who don't know how to show up
prepared for an interview. While I can't speak to your situation, the
overwhelming number of applicants disqualify themselves because they have no
job seeking or people skills.







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Dr Zoidberg

2003-06-26, 7:25 am

Bubbie wrote:
>
> What am I gonna do?
>
> I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
>
> So long IT World...


I just went the opposite way.
Good luck , what force are you going to?
--
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger"

"Then I hide until it goes away"


The Oracle

2003-06-27, 6:24 pm

You are the idiot, not me. You have paid to be a MCSE - I haven't.

"Techie" <delphiworks@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Fi8Ja.1574$BC3.270170@news20.bellglobal.com...
> You are a major idiot "The Oracle", you could never get by being just a

MCSE
> you always needed all the other skills you mentioned to be a real network
> admin/engineer just before companies would pay others to cover the load

and
> now they want the admin/engineer to do his job.
>
> --
> Techie
> A+, Network+, MCP, MCNGP #21
>
> "The Oracle" <kojaknospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bd1dja$o6i72$1@ID-179018.news.dfncis.de...
> > You are an idiot. Speaking from a nice comfy $70000 job are we? Well,

> lose
> > that job and try to get another on even a third of that money.
> >
> > Sure there are jobs out there. But not for just MCSE (utterly

worthless).
> > Evenif you do have experience. You'll need to have networking,

microsoft,
> > unix, cabling and all manner of experience if you want to be paid a
> > reasonable wage.
> >
> >
> > "Smoi" <Smoi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1056186079.117039@ns2.1earth.net...
> > > >. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with a
> > > >average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has >a family. I've

seen
> > it
> > > done many times. If you are over 35 >you're an 'old fart' and the

> > positions
> > > really dry up. You >might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > >candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > >
> > > do you have the qualifications to become a manager? i dont think you

do
> > from
> > > the desc you have given..
> > >
> > > listen, i'm sick and tired of you people talking about no jobs and

crap!
> i
> > > cant take it no more.. it is not the reality so dont give me this

> reality
> > > bull crap!
> > >
> > > let me get this right, from reading your post bubbie, you said you

have
> > been
> > > in the industry before i started my bachelors.. did you have any

> > oppurtunity
> > > to get up in your position? ofcourse you aint gonna become a manager

buy[c
olor=darkred]
> > > just experience.. it is a requirement in almost every company that i

> have
> > > seen needs some kind of masters degree to promote you to a managerial

> > level
> > > position!
> > >
> > > i dont think you have done that?
> > >
> > > ok now to the reason why you aint shortlisted ..can be coz you are

> > applying
> > > to some entry level position where they dont require that many skills
[/color]
or[co
lor=darkred]
> > > qualifications that you have..coz they just cant afford to pay you and

> > plus
> > > you are too old for the position.. you need to tailor your resume..
[/color]
you
> > can
> > > just mention all your certs on the resume..coz you will be

> overqualified..
> > > so add/remove certs as per the job requirements!
> > >
> > > this is just my thought..
> > >
> > > IT world is allready facing with too many problems and there are many
> > > reasons behind it.. so if you feel like you have given your best shot

> then
> > > go ahead and DO WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE! there are lot of other options

(work

> > in
> > > Macs, BK) given by many PRO'S here..
> > >
> > > become a cop? yea you could probally do that.. so you can give way to

> > those
> > > young people in IT.. that is the truth dude, sorry if it hurts..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Maynard" <nobody@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> > > news:eKMIa.70$mS2.55@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > > > OK, I see one problem you (and I) share. Your age. I would say you

are[c
olor=darkred]
> > > over
> > > > 35 because of the numbers you quote. They don't want people over 35
> > > working
> > > > in IT department for a number of reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Since some many IT positions have been cut, the work has been rolled

> > over
> > > > onto others. It is easier to stick a person right out of school with
[/color]
a[col
or=darkred]
> > > > average 50-60 hour week than someone older who has a family. I've
[/color]
seen
> > it
> > > > done many times. If you are over 35 you're an 'old fart' and the

> > positions
> > > > really dry up. You might make a manager of some kind but not a good
> > > > candidate for the 'grunt' work.
> > > >
> > > > Of course with some of the job responsibilities I have seen listed

for[c
olor=darkred]
> > > > positions in my skill set, I'm kinda glad I am not being hired. I'll

> > work
> > > > for a living but I'm not going to give them my life for $30K a year.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Bubbie" <bubbie@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:rKMIa.653$yw5.15762@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > > > Yep have real world experience I spent 15 years in the RAF...some
[/color]
of
> > it
> > > > > administering networks, working in comms etc...but what does it

> > matter?
> > > > And
> > > > > what does a few certifications matter either? I spent 13 years at
> > > > school...I
> > > > > got an A level in Maths...does that make me a mathmatician? A

level

> > > > > Physics...a physicist? I got an O Level in History, does that make

> me
> > a
> > > > > Historian, I got a BSc in Science...does that make me a scientist?

> The
> > > > thing
> > > > > with certifications is that they aren't worth the paper they are

> > printed
> > > > on.
> > > > > They are like the MOT certificates...they are valid for a certain

> > period
> > > > of
> > > > > time and just prove that you were able to pass an exam on a

> particular
> > > > day.
> > > > > Nothing else...
> > > > >
> > > > > What am I gonna do?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm gonna be a Police Officer !
> > > > >
> > > > > So long IT World...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



Chris

2003-07-30, 1:25 am

Sounds like you were never a part of the IT world to begin with. It's
people like you that up and decide one day that they can get their
certification in a few weeks, and go get a high dollar job doing
something they have no idea how to do.

Well, your damn empty resumes flooding the employers don't help those
of us with tons of experience and know what we're doing get a job.

I thought bootcamp MCSEs would have realized now what a scam these
training centers are.

>Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much as
>a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
>
>Goodbye IT...
>


JWC

2003-07-30, 2:25 am

I'd like to buy you for what your worth and sell you for what you think
your worth.

Chris wrote:
> Sounds like you were never a part of the IT world to begin with. It's
> people like you that up and decide one day that they can get their
> certification in a few weeks, and go get a high dollar job doing
> something they have no idea how to do.
>
> Well, your damn empty resumes flooding the employers don't help those
> of us with tons of experience and know what we're doing get a job.
>
> I thought bootcamp MCSEs would have realized now what a scam these
> training centers are.
>
>
>>Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much as
>>a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
>>
>>Goodbye IT...
>>

>
>


Paul

2003-07-30, 5:25 am

Well since your calling it quits, can I buy your certs? lol.....8> ) j u s
t k i d d i n g o f c o u r s e...

good luck

"Chris" <mplex2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kjeivkfj3vc3bf200earp554
pte0uq95a@4ax.com...
> Sounds like you were never a part of the IT world to begin with. It's
> people like you that up and decide one day that they can get their
> certification in a few weeks, and go get a high dollar job doing
> something they have no idea how to do.
>
> Well, your damn empty resumes flooding the employers don't help those
> of us with tons of experience and know what we're doing get a job.
>
> I thought bootcamp MCSEs would have realized now what a scam these
> training centers are.
>
> >Anyway, 3 years after getting MCSE and CCNA, I have never created so much

as
> >a user account, a group policy, a mailbox or an access list etc...
> >
> >Goodbye IT...
> >

>



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