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Not the real world.
|
|
| whenindoubt 2003-06-05, 8:24 am |
| Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions on
the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
"The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
thing to do?"
a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
b: Replace the drive?
c: Swap the CD from another machine.
d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
$30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before you
gave up and replaced it?
| |
| Techie 2003-06-05, 10:25 am |
| I noticed that as well, not to mention the fact that half of the real world
questions almost never happen so its quiet fun to see them on the tests.
--
Techie
A+, Network+, MCP
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
|
| Please do not forget the cost of capitol to process making the purchase
and the Admin Time as well as having a skilled person tied up to perhaps
go pick up the drive. I would bet that on the average 2 hours would be
lost just getting the drive by the time that all said and done. Then
there is the reading of the crap that comes with the drive, setting the
jumpers, deciding to use the new cable or the old and on and on. That
being said there is the decision as to what to do with the old drive,
keep or discard the box and so on.
Get my thrust?
If you have ever done any time studies on labor operations in order to
establish labor standards (Bean Counting) you would be amazed at the
real cost of some very simple labor tasks.
If one has access to the internetin the lab, you can usuall download a
drive in less than 30 minutes and instalation only takes a few seconds.
Ray
whenindoubt wrote:
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
| Beoweolf 2003-06-05, 9:25 pm |
| Drivers for server OS are not necessary the same as on home or client
systems. In a real world situation, as you mention, going to finance for the
purchase of a new drive, because the driver is incompatible would not be
cost justifiable. Who is to say the new drive would not need an updated
driver?
If the question were to include some note about the age of the disc, disk
subsystem or platform, maybe...but as presented, the "first" response would
be to download new drivers.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
| whenindoubt 2003-06-05, 9:25 pm |
| A real world question would be stated like:
"The CD drive doesn't work, what steps would you take"
Then the answer is common sense, check for new drivers.
The first question specifically said that the CD Drive was not supported on
the HCL. To me that means Microsoft says it won't work so don't try.
"Beoweolf" <Beoweolf@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:PnSDa.96$A%6.13495511@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> Drivers for server OS are not necessary the same as on home or client
> systems. In a real world situation, as you mention, going to finance for
the
> purchase of a new drive, because the driver is incompatible would not be
> cost justifiable. Who is to say the new drive would not need an updated
> driver?
>
> If the question were to include some note about the age of the disc, disk
> subsystem or platform, maybe...but as presented, the "first" response
would
> be to download new drivers.
> "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
> on
> > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
effective
> > thing to do?"
> > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > b: Replace the drive?
> > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> >
> > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
said
> > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
> you
> > gave up and replaced it?
> >
> >
>
>
>
| |
| Andy Foster 2003-06-06, 4:24 am |
| "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:UtSDa.2130$%A1.448785606@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> A real world question would be stated like:
> "The CD drive doesn't work, what steps would you take"
> Then the answer is common sense, check for new drivers.
> The first question specifically said that the CD Drive was not supported
on
> the HCL. To me that means Microsoft says it won't work so don't try.
>
The HCL is a totally comprehensive list of all hardware present and future
that will ever work with the OS ????
No wonder MS are the biggest software company in the world if they're that
clever.
| |
| Bob Mologna 2003-06-06, 6:24 am |
| If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real problem. It
does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying around
for the taking.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
| whenindoubt 2003-06-06, 6:24 am |
| Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the drive is
not supported on the HCL?
To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure, it's
easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their website. Ever
try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a flaky
aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
"Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
> surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
> replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real problem. It
> does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying around
> for the taking.
>
> "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
> on
> > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
effective
> > thing to do?"
> > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > b: Replace the drive?
> > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> >
> > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
said
> > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
> you
> > gave up and replaced it?
> >
> >
>
>
>
| |
| Bob Mologna 2003-06-06, 6:24 am |
| I do agree that the question is poorly worded. If I were presented with the
question on a MS exam I'd select replace the drive. I the real world I would
look for some drivers that worked.
As for the 25MB bundle, it's pretty rare that you can't find a minimal
driver if you look carefully. Most all of my clients are on DSL or decent
leased lines so I tend to think of downloads as being nearly instant. If I
were on a flaky aol dial-up my answer would be E: Bite down hard on hidden
cyanide tablet.
BTW, I wasn't implying that you are lazy/inept, just commenting on some
others I know.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the drive
is
> not supported on the HCL?
>
> To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
it's
> easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their website.
Ever
> try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
flaky
> aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
>
> "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
> > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
> > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real problem.
It
> > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
around
> > for the taking.
> >
> > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
questions
> > on
> > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> effective
> > > thing to do?"
> > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > >
> > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> said
> > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive[/color]
before
> > you
> > > gave up and replaced it?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| whenindoubt 2003-06-06, 7:24 am |
| Hide the tablets!
The 25mb bundle is why I shy away from Lexmark printers.
Have a good day!
"Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9N_Da.17060$pK2.23514@news.indigo.ie...
> I do agree that the question is poorly worded. If I were presented with
the
> question on a MS exam I'd select replace the drive. I the real world I
would
> look for some drivers that worked.
>
> As for the 25MB bundle, it's pretty rare that you can't find a minimal
> driver if you look carefully. Most all of my clients are on DSL or decent
> leased lines so I tend to think of downloads as being nearly instant. If I
> were on a flaky aol dial-up my answer would be E: Bite down hard on hidden
> cyanide tablet.
>
> BTW, I wasn't implying that you are lazy/inept, just commenting on some
> others I know.
>
> "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the
drive
> is
> > not supported on the HCL?
> >
> > To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
> it's
> > easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their website.
> Ever
> > try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
> flaky
> > aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
> >
> > "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
> > > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
> > > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real
problem.
> It
> > > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
> around
> > > for the taking.
> > >
> > > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
> questions
> > > on
> > > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> > effective
> > > > thing to do?"
> > > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > > >
> > > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an
hour. [colo
r=darkred]
> > > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> > said
> > > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you[/color]
have
> to
> > > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive
> before
> > > you
> > > > gave up and replaced it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| I did not understand how microsoft came up with some of their answers in the
tests such as network infrastructure or the design test. you really dont use
that as the right solution in "real world"
this is one perfect example for that type!!! they dont view two sides of a
suituation... thats when differences in opinion occur.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:bW_Da.2199$PW3.524069066@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Hide the tablets!
>
> The 25mb bundle is why I shy away from Lexmark printers.
>
> Have a good day!
>
> "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9N_Da.17060$pK2.23514@news.indigo.ie...
> > I do agree that the question is poorly worded. If I were presented with
> the
> > question on a MS exam I'd select replace the drive. I the real world I
> would
> > look for some drivers that worked.
> >
> > As for the 25MB bundle, it's pretty rare that you can't find a minimal
> > driver if you look carefully. Most all of my clients are on DSL or
decent
> > leased lines so I tend to think of downloads as being nearly instant. If
I
> > were on a flaky aol dial-up my answer would be E: Bite down hard on
hidden
> > cyanide tablet.
> >
> > BTW, I wasn't implying that you are lazy/inept, just commenting on some
> > others I know.
> >
> > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the
> drive
> > is
> > > not supported on the HCL?
> > >
> > > To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
> > it's
> > > easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their
website.
> > Ever
> > > try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
> > flaky
> > > aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
> > >
> > > "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > > > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be
very[
color=darkred]
> > > > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers.[/color]
They'll
> > > > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real
> problem.
> > It
> > > > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
> > around
> > > > for the taking.
> > > >
> > > > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
> > questions
> > > > on
> > > > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> > > effective
> > > > > thing to do?"
> > > > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > > > >
> > > > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an
> hour.
> > > > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The
question
> > > said
> > > > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you
> have
> > to
> > > > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive
> > before
> > > > you
> > > > > gave up and replaced it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Beoweolf 2003-06-06, 10:25 am |
| You seem to have made up your mind that the question is somehow wrong, every
time you are presented with a valid solution which fits the answer expected,
you offer an enhanced scenario that fits your pre-conceived notion.
Starting from the premise that you working in an environment that requires
an MCP or MCSE, I doubt if a modem based connection, thru AOL is your
primary access the internet.
Your opinions and explanations are reasonable, they just aren't right.
Updating drivers is usually a first response to hardware compatibility
issues. Even when you first purchase many products (disk drives,
controllers, M/B, printers), you are cautioned or often automatically, sent
to a web site for updated drivers. If you do not have internet access, which
is true in many home installations, you may not get the optimum driver for
the OS you are working with. If that is the same situation in a business, I
would tend to think the administrator needs more training.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the drive
is
> not supported on the HCL?
>
> To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
it's
> easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their website.
Ever
> try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
flaky
> aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
>
> "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
> > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
> > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real problem.
It
> > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
around
> > for the taking.
> >
> > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
questions
> > on
> > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> effective
> > > thing to do?"
> > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > >
> > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> said
> > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive[/color]
before
> > you
> > > gave up and replaced it?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| whenindoubt 2003-06-06, 12:25 pm |
| It's true that I don't understand how to answer test questions like the one
I presented. Why would you specifically state that the device is unsupported
on the HCL? I've got 10 MCSE books lying around that all say check the
latest HCL on microsoft's website for the current list of supported devices.
Don't use anything that is not on the list. So, the logical "real world"
answer in my mind would be replace the drive. The correct "mcse world"
answer is search for new drivers? for an unsupported drive? Huh?
I just don't get it, athough I am trying to think the "mcse world" way. I
don't know any other way of explaining it but you're right. I have made up
my mind that the question is somehow wrong. In my line of "real world" work.
The cost of labor and time wasted usually far outweighs the price of
hardware. When I take microsoft tests, I have to take labor cost out of the
equation when I answer the questions or else I get them wrong.
The printer drivers through AOL is a real scenario I had to go through last
week. That's my world, and I'm stuck with it. Your response is entirely
correct if you ignore the HCL and the statement that the device is
unsupported.
"Beoweolf" <Beoweolf@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:BS1Ea.127$QJ4.16081100@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> You seem to have made up your mind that the question is somehow wrong,
every
> time you are presented with a valid solution which fits the answer
expected,
> you offer an enhanced scenario that fits your pre-conceived notion.
>
> Starting from the premise that you working in an environment that requires
> an MCP or MCSE, I doubt if a modem based connection, thru AOL is your
> primary access the internet.
>
> Your opinions and explanations are reasonable, they just aren't right.
> Updating drivers is usually a first response to hardware compatibility
> issues. Even when you first purchase many products (disk drives,
> controllers, M/B, printers), you are cautioned or often automatically,
sent
> to a web site for updated drivers. If you do not have internet access,
which
> is true in many home installations, you may not get the optimum driver for
> the OS you are working with. If that is the same situation in a business,
I
> would tend to think the administrator needs more training.
>
> "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the
drive
> is
> > not supported on the HCL?
> >
> > To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
> it's
> > easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their website.
> Ever
> > try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
> flaky
> > aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
> >
> > "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be very
> > > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers. They'll
> > > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real
problem.
> It
> > > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
> around
> > > for the taking.
> > >
> > > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
> questions
> > > on
> > > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> > effective
> > > > thing to do?"
> > > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > > >
> > > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an
hour. [colo
r=darkred]
> > > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> > said
> > > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you[/color]
have
> to
> > > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive
> before
> > > you
> > > > gave up and replaced it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Tom Minerd 2003-06-07, 8:24 pm |
| In this case, they are talking about a CD ROM drive not on the HCL? What
are the chances of that anyway. I have yet to see windows 2000 not accept a
cd rom drive using native drivers. This question should be reworded to use
a different piece of hardware. This is a bad example
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
|
| I totally agree with you. Although downloading drivers is fast and less
administrative overhead than going down to the store and buying a drive that
is 2000 compliant. Funny I haven't taken the test yet and know this
question and answer from the transcender software. I'll know the right
answer if I see it on the test....thx
Paul
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
|
| I have noticed that many people seem to think that because something is
not on the HCL that it is not supported hardware. The hardware that is
on the HCL is simply equipment that has either been tested and/or is
known to work with Windows 2000. Many of the equipment manufacturers
have developed their own drivers but may not have brought it to the
attention of Microsoft. For the most part, do not automatically expect
to find digitally signed drivers from an OEM.
Ray
whenindoubt wrote:
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions on
> the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost effective
> thing to do?"
> a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> b: Replace the drive?
> c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
>
> $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question said
> the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before you
> gave up and replaced it?
>
>
| |
| DenverBob 2003-06-09, 12:25 pm |
| Ray,
While what you are saying is true, I can tell you that MS will not support
any problems caused by an unsigned driver (or something not on the HCL).
Many companies (including mine) now deploy security policies that will not
allow the installation of unsigned drivers.
--
DenverBob
MCSE/W2K
-------------------------
You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know
how seldom they do.
Olin Miller
"Ray" <ray.rayz@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3EE3D3D6.3000507@verizon.net...
> I have noticed that many people seem to think that because something is
> not on the HCL that it is not supported hardware. The hardware that is
> on the HCL is simply equipment that has either been tested and/or is
> known to work with Windows 2000. Many of the equipment manufacturers
> have developed their own drivers but may not have brought it to the
> attention of Microsoft. For the most part, do not automatically expect
> to find digitally signed drivers from an OEM.
>
> Ray
>
> whenindoubt wrote:
> > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World" questions
on
> > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
effective
> > thing to do?"
> > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > b: Replace the drive?
> > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> >
> > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
said
> > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have to
> > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive before
you
> > gave up and replaced it?
> >
> >
>
| |
|
| Bob:
Yes, I am well aware of your point and Microsoft's position in wanting
to find any excuse possible to not support their software. I was
speaking more about what will work and what has been tested by OEM's and
others. There are thousands of unsigned drivers that work just fine but
I do not find fault with any organization that has security policies
that prohibit the installation of unsigned drivers.
Ray
DenverBob wrote:
> Ray,
>
> While what you are saying is true, I can tell you that MS will not support
> any problems caused by an unsigned driver (or something not on the HCL).
>
> Many companies (including mine) now deploy security policies that will not
> allow the installation of unsigned drivers.
>
| |
| Beoweolf 2003-06-10, 4:25 am |
| I too see your point about unsigned drivers, and setting policy on the user
side to prevent unsigned drivers. That policy should be flexible enough to
include exceptions, when installed by Ops staff. Maybe you haven't noticed,
but many of the security related patches, hotfixes and product updates
currently distributed by Microsoft do NOT come with a digital signature?
Further, some of the smaller outfits, some who do sell decent products and
produce tested drivers...do not want to pay the licensing fee for a window
or XP approval logo? Also, if we are being as careful as we should...the
compatible rating only certifies that the driver work with windows...once
you add in your third-party applications, etc - all bets are off. The best
way is to have that test system setup to run ANY changes to your system
before introduction to the production network.
I guess the point is your level of comfort with risk, the combined stability
of your network and need for the fix, patch, driver...all influence what you
need to do or are willing to risk on any given day.
"DenverBob" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:iP2Fa.99322$DV.117819@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Ray,
>
> While what you are saying is true, I can tell you that MS will not support
> any problems caused by an unsigned driver (or something not on the HCL).
>
> Many companies (including mine) now deploy security policies that will not
> allow the installation of unsigned drivers.
>
> --
> DenverBob
> MCSE/W2K
> -------------------------
> You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could
know
> how seldom they do.
>
> Olin Miller
>
> "Ray" <ray.rayz@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3EE3D3D6.3000507@verizon.net...
> > I have noticed that many people seem to think that because something is
> > not on the HCL that it is not supported hardware. The hardware that is
> > on the HCL is simply equipment that has either been tested and/or is
> > known to work with Windows 2000. Many of the equipment manufacturers
> > have developed their own drivers but may not have brought it to the
> > attention of Microsoft. For the most part, do not automatically expect
> > to find digitally signed drivers from an OEM.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > whenindoubt wrote:
> > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
questions
> on
> > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> effective
> > > thing to do?"
> > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > >
> > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> said
> > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive[/color]
before
> you
> > > gave up and replaced it?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
| |
| Ida Wanna 2003-06-16, 3:26 pm |
| Maybe I misunderstand the HCL, but isn't that just a list of hardware that
works with the OS, out-of-the box? If a device isn't on the HCL, then it
can be made OS compliant by downloading the drivers. (please correct me if
I'm wrong)
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:UtSDa.2130$%A1.448785606@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> A real world question would be stated like:
> "The CD drive doesn't work, what steps would you take"
> Then the answer is common sense, check for new drivers.
> The first question specifically said that the CD Drive was not supported
on
> the HCL. To me that means Microsoft says it won't work so don't try.
>
>
> "Beoweolf" <Beoweolf@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:PnSDa.96$A%6.13495511@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > Drivers for server OS are not necessary the same as on home or client
> > systems. In a real world situation, as you mention, going to finance for
> the
> > purchase of a new drive, because the driver is incompatible would not be
> > cost justifiable. Who is to say the new drive would not need an updated
> > driver?
> >
> > If the question were to include some note about the age of the disc,
disk
> > subsystem or platform, maybe...but as presented, the "first" response
> would
> > be to download new drivers.
> > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
questions
> > on
> > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> effective
> > > thing to do?"
> > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > >
> > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an hour.
> > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The question
> said
> > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you have
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive[/color]
before
> > you
> > > gave up and replaced it?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Ida Wanna 2003-06-16, 3:26 pm |
| Microsoft will tell you to not use any HW that is not on their HCL because
they are disclaiming responsibility for supporting that HW. But the HCL is
updated by MS from time to time. Just because a piece of HW is not on the
HCL at one point doesn't mean it never will be; it just wasn't at the time
of the latest HCL release. Likewise, if MS hasn't produced their "signed"
driver for the HW, you can still search for a Win2k compatible "unsigned"
driver and only incur the cost of the internet search.
p.s.
If the entire office is on a single modem dial-up to the internet, they're
not too worried about technology anyway. At least spend the extra $15 a
month for cable! And really...AOL? Internet...with training wheels.
"whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:%U3Ea.2302$Ra4.557969561@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> It's true that I don't understand how to answer test questions like the
one
> I presented. Why would you specifically state that the device is
unsupported
> on the HCL? I've got 10 MCSE books lying around that all say check the
> latest HCL on microsoft's website for the current list of supported
devices.
> Don't use anything that is not on the list. So, the logical "real world"
> answer in my mind would be replace the drive. The correct "mcse world"
> answer is search for new drivers? for an unsupported drive? Huh?
>
> I just don't get it, athough I am trying to think the "mcse world" way. I
> don't know any other way of explaining it but you're right. I have made up
> my mind that the question is somehow wrong. In my line of "real world"
work.
> The cost of labor and time wasted usually far outweighs the price of
> hardware. When I take microsoft tests, I have to take labor cost out of
the
> equation when I answer the questions or else I get them wrong.
>
> The printer drivers through AOL is a real scenario I had to go through
last
> week. That's my world, and I'm stuck with it. Your response is entirely
> correct if you ignore the HCL and the statement that the device is
> unsupported.
>
> "Beoweolf" <Beoweolf@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:BS1Ea.127$QJ4.16081100@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> > You seem to have made up your mind that the question is somehow wrong,
> every
> > time you are presented with a valid solution which fits the answer
> expected,
> > you offer an enhanced scenario that fits your pre-conceived notion.
> >
> > Starting from the premise that you working in an environment that
requires
> > an MCP or MCSE, I doubt if a modem based connection, thru AOL is your
> > primary access the internet.
> >
> > Your opinions and explanations are reasonable, they just aren't right.
> > Updating drivers is usually a first response to hardware compatibility
> > issues. Even when you first purchase many products (disk drives,
> > controllers, M/B, printers), you are cautioned or often automatically,
> sent
> > to a web site for updated drivers. If you do not have internet access,
> which
> > is true in many home installations, you may not get the optimum driver
for
> > the OS you are working with. If that is the same situation in a
business,
> I
> > would tend to think the administrator needs more training.
> >
> > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > news:BF_Da.2193$um3.521692307@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Again, back to the original question. Why would they state that the
> drive
> > is
> > > not supported on the HCL?
> > >
> > > To throw a curve ball. What if the question was about a printer? Sure,
> > it's
> > > easy to download the latest lexmark printer drivers from their
website.
> > Ever
> > > try to download 25mb worth of bundled printer software/drivers over a
> > flaky
> > > aol dialup connection? Hours of wasted, "Real World" time.
> > >
> > > "Bob Mologna" <notbobmologna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:H9_Da.17047$pK2.23546@news.indigo.ie...
> > > > If I couldn't google up the right driver in a few minutes I'd be
very[
color=darkred]
> > > > surprised. I see this all the time with our junior engineers.[/color]
They'll
> > > > replace parts because they are too lazy/inept to find the real
> problem.
> > It
> > > > does mean that there are always loads of perfectly good parts lying
> > around
> > > > for the taking.
> > > >
> > > > "whenindoubt" <prjames@netzero.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:rPGDa.1390$Bu3.324858967@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the "Real World"
> > questions
> > > > on
> > > > > the exams don't seem to include the cost of labor? Questions like,
> > > > > "The CD drive is not supported on the HCL, what's the most cost
> > > effective
> > > > > thing to do?"
> > > > > a: Download new drivers from the CD drive website?
> > > > > b: Replace the drive?
> > > > > c: Swap the CD from another machine.
> > > > > d: Install windows and see if the drive causes problems?
> > > > >
> > > > > $30 CD drive that is supported, 2 minutes to pop it in at $80 an
> hour.
> > > > > WRONG! The correct answer is download new drivers. Huh? The
question
> > > said
> > > > > the drive was NOT supported on the HCL. How many hours would you
> have
> > to
> > > > > spend downloading and installing drivers for an unsupported drive
> > before
> > > > you
> > > > > gave up and replaced it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
|