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| I've seen a number of postings concerning Computeach and thought I'd
post an extract of a letter I sent to there Directors a few years back
which details my experience. Sorry its so long winded but if it saves
somebody wasting thousands of pounds its been worth posting and
incidentally I received no response from them relative to my letter:
"As a student of Computeach since enrolling on your BOPAC course[which
cost nearly £4000] in February 1998 I would appreciate your comments
regarding some issues I have identified with the course to date.
My comments in fact reference the claims advertised extensively about
the job placement record of students or graduates of your courses. As
your adverts state "Graduates are highly sought after" and "we receive
a constant flow of vacancies" not to mention that my "selection
executive", Graham Blair, told me "we can't fill the vacancies quickly
enough" I thought I would be contacted fairly quickly regarding said
vacancies. One advert claims "That Computeach graduates are highly
sought after" can you therefore comment on my own experience in that I
graduated in Applications programming in December 1998 and have
additionally passed numerous other IT related courses. I have an Open
University Diploma in Computing and degree points in such topics as
Java, C++, Smalltalk programming as well as database applications. I
have asked Software Professionals to try and place me anywhere for a
reasonable salary 12000+ and have not received even one single job
"referral"(note not a placement) from them in over three years. In
fact the only regular communication I receive from them is a form
asking if I want to remain on their database and if I had an IT
related job. My initial experience of Software Professional was it was
impossible to actually get an agent to return a telephone call, I
actually have twenty dated and timed instances of this documented and
it got so bad that after the initial year for the next 2 years I only
communicated by email with them. However even that seems to be proving
fruitless as now neither Kanez nor Paul Surman, who I was recently
told to contact, ever seem to respond.There assistance consisted of a
database printout of companies who had previously employed students,
although when a phoned some of these companies none had even heard of
Computeach, and a mail shot of which I got told after 8 weeks produced
poor results although I never seen any evidence it was even
undertaken. I have in fact sent over 1000 applications in different
forms for employment, cold letters, agency applications, vacancy
applications, etc all of which were researched at considerable time
and expense. I actually telephoned companies for contact names before
applying and gained access to the students career advisory center for
Edinburgh University for advice and assistance, of which I may add
they gave more of then Software Proffessionals. In fact their first
responses for my lack of success was that maybe my covering letters
CV's were not adequate even though they had checked them themselves on
a number of occasions. Afterwards the standard response when I queried
the lack of job opportunities was to inform me that they were putting
me on a "special" jobsearch which would take a number of weeks. I was
in fact on about four of these that never produced any further
response from the agency and I'm sure I was just being appeased in the
hope I would give up as there was never any evidence of any activity
from them.
This was one of the main reasons I gave up the course as I basically
felt I was wasting my time. However I did decide to look into the
experiences of others and it appears I am not the only one to have
serious misgivings about Computeach courses as through the internet,
newsgroups, conferencing, there are quite a few Open University
students who have knowledge of Computeach, etc I have managed to
gather a lot of, student, potential student, accounts not to mention
the fifty or so students I actually met when I attended classes,
exams. The common denominator is I have never met or heard of anybody
who actually got a job directly related to their course and the best
anybody seemed to do was technical support, about 5 % out of well over
150 people, which is poorly paid and has a high staff turnover.
Another major issue is Computeach send a "Selection Executive" to
determine the suitability of potential students although when the
contract is examined the company accept absolutely no liability for
what this person says a solicitor confirmed this when he checked the
contract for me. Effectually this person, more accurately described as
a salesman, can tell the prospective student anything to sell the
course and I have a number of accounts that prove they do so, one guy
even said the salesman filled in his test form for him because he
couldn't find the original. Hardly strikes me as somebody who was
concerned about the suitability of students and I actually have an
account proving that everybody "passes" the test. Other issues raised
are that no student has ever been told that the "free" jobsearch
facility does in fact charge prospective employers a fee for placing
students with them even though they've already received £4000 from
people like me for the course. Neither is the fact that Software
Professionals also act for private individuals who obviously promote a
bigger fee leading to a conflict of interest for an agent, who do they
promote the most the higher earner or the students?
Ultimately a number of students paid a lot of money for the
opportunity to get a chance of employment as a programmer/IT
specialist and this is the most disappointing aspect. I am not
unrealistic I knew it would be difficult which is why I took
additional training. I also did not expect to be simply given a job
just a few referrals would have been appreciated and I was confident
in my own abilities to progress these. However I couldn't even get
anybody to either return phone calls or give an honest answer to my
queries. I had an opportunity of employment abroad with my engineering
background I few years ago and telephoned Mark Lawrason for an honest
assessment of my employment prospects and received the usual "special"
jobsearch answer. He could have saved me a lot of time and money
without the usual evasive tactics employed by Software Professional
staff which has been my experience and the experience of many others.
I believe the company are guilty of blatantly false advertising and
misinformation regarding your courses and as regards Software
Professionals are not providing the services promised as per their
contractual obligations."
Don't make the same mistake folks stay well away from Computeach!
| |
| Hywel Jenkins 2003-01-22, 5:24 pm |
| In article <9b486a17.0301221215.2ad1fc24@posting.google.com>,
m.hall@chello.nl says...
> I've seen a number of postings concerning Computeach and thought I'd
> post an extract of a letter I sent to there Directors a few years back
> which details my experience. Sorry its so long winded but if it saves
> somebody wasting thousands of pounds its been worth posting and
> incidentally I received no response from them relative to my letter:
>
<snipped rant>
Perhaps you're just not good enough, lack experience, etc...
--
Hywel Never knowingly understood
http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
| |
| Don McCahill 2003-01-22, 9:24 pm |
| Xref: nntp3.aus1.giganews.com uk.comp.training:11058 uk.comp.certification:2005 alt.certification.mcse:175849 uk.net.web.authoring:53796 alt.html:433226
mhall wrote:
> I've seen a number of postings concerning Computeach and thought I'd
> post an extract of a letter I sent to there Directors a few years back
> which details my experience. Sorry its so long winded but if it saves
> somebody wasting thousands of pounds its been worth posting and
> incidentally I received no response from them relative to my letter:
>
> "As a student of Computeach since enrolling on your BOPAC course[which
> cost nearly =A34000] in February 1998 I would appreciate your comments
> regarding some issues I have identified with the course to date.
The job market made a major shift in recent years, and it is possible tha=
t
when you started the course, things were hopping, but now IT is much
slower, without the extensive recruiting that was happening before Y2K
> This was one of the main reasons I gave up the course as I basically
> felt I was wasting my time.
Excuse me? You are complaining about not get a job as a result of a cours=
e
you didn't complete.
I bet there are a lot of Harvard MBA dropouts getting jobs these days too=
=2E
--
Don McCahill
| |
| Tina - AffordableHOST.com 2003-01-22, 10:24 pm |
| "Don McCahill" <donmcc@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3E2F5230.2BE2AE02@rogers.com...
The job market made a major shift in recent years, and it is possible that
when you started the course, things were hopping, but now IT is much
slower, without the extensive recruiting that was happening before Y2K
============
I think the IT industry is fine. Its just that there are more candidates to
choose from, now...and the payrate has changed to reflect that. If you're
looking for a job, they are out there...you might have to lower your
expectations a bit though. ;-)
--Tina
--
NEW! Cpanel + Multi-Acct./Resellers + Server Pkgs
http://www.AffordableHOST.com - web hosting since 1997
Domain Reg. $12/yr + FREE optional hosting + more!
http://www.AffordableDOTS.com
| |
| Tamus The First 2003-01-23, 10:25 am |
| Has anybody else had bad dealings with Computeach???
| |
| mhall 2003-01-23, 12:24 pm |
| Hywel Jenkins <hyweljenkins@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.189923d7ddeea39e98969c@192.168.0.1>...
> In article <9b486a17.0301221215.2ad1fc24@posting.google.com>,
> m.hall@chello.nl says...
> > I've seen a number of postings concerning Computeach and thought I'd
> > post an extract of a letter I sent to there Directors a few years back
> > which details my experience. Sorry its so long winded but if it saves
> > somebody wasting thousands of pounds its been worth posting and
> > incidentally I received no response from them relative to my letter:
> >
> <snipped rant>
>
> Perhaps you're just not good enough, lack experience, etc...
Yes I think your right it probably was lack of experience,as for not
good enough who knows.
The point actually was Computeach state there projects provide the
recognised experience which isn't true along with a lot of other
information they output. Anybody whose happy with that should feel
free to enrol.
| |
| Jim McLaren 2003-01-23, 12:24 pm |
|
>Has anybody else had bad dealings with Computeach???
I finished a course with Computeach in July2001, and have to say I
thought the tutors and the course were both excellent. I will admit it
was a lot of money, but then you only gets what you pays for IMO.
I have not yet found a job, but that is primarily due to the fact that
I don't want to move, there has been a collapse in the IT jobs
market, and I currently have a job I enjoy, even if it doesn't pay
well :-)
HOWEVER, I totally agree that the spiel I got about Software
professionals 'proactively' looking for jobs for you can at best be
described as misleading. Since my finishing I am lead to believe there
have been changes made in how Software Professionals are 'presented'
to prospective students and also they appear to be more interested in
helping you find work.
--
Jim McLaren
mail: black.fingernail@virgin.net
| |
|
| Don McCahill <donmcc@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<3E2F5230.2BE2AE02@rogers.com>...
> mhall wrote:
>
> > I've seen a number of postings concerning Computeach and thought I'd
> > post an extract of a letter I sent to there Directors a few years back
> > which details my experience. Sorry its so long winded but if it saves
> > somebody wasting thousands of pounds its been worth posting and
> > incidentally I received no response from them relative to my letter:
> >
> > "As a student of Computeach since enrolling on your BOPAC course[which
> > cost nearly 4000] in February 1998 I would appreciate your comments
> > regarding some issues I have identified with the course to date.
>
> The job market made a major shift in recent years, and it is possible tha
> t
> when you started the course, things were hopping, but now IT is much
> slower, without the extensive recruiting that was happening before Y2K
>
>
> > This was one of the main reasons I gave up the course as I basically
> > felt I was wasting my time.
>
> Excuse me? You are complaining about not get a job as a result of a cours
> e
> you didn't complete.
>
> I bet there are a lot of Harvard MBA dropouts getting jobs these days too
> .
You've also missed the point I think. Through research, having access
to fellow students once doing the course,I had absolutely no
confidence of getting a job through this course(I met 50 students none
with a job, come on!) so simply went back to my previous career as an
engineer.There was no point in wasting even more time and money and I
was fortunate I had another career to fall back on.There are a lot of
students who don't,one guy had a loan kindly arranged by Computeach
secured on his house,and has never ever got a job despite passing the
course.I had undertaken the Computeach advanced course and had already
qualified well past the level that 95% of their students got jobs,
according to them. I also wasn't asking for them to give me a job just
access to some of their "abundance of opportunties",just an interview
the rest was up to me.
I've moved on so I don't particular care who takes their course's I
was just passing on my own experince for people to make there own
judgement as I've noticed some people have asked for opinions over the
last few months.If you fancy parting with your hard earned cash good
luck to you ,I hope your experience is better then mine and my fellow
students. The general point I should have made is if you want to make
a career forget private training and go for proper college,
university, education as I had already done in Engineering. I think
you'd find these Harvard MBA dropouts you've mentioned would have a
much better chance of employment then a Computeach graduate.
| |
|
| Jim McLaren <Jim@REMOVEblackfingernail.con> wrote in message news:< gcb03vc2r4rc54o47839iujis03ish
v8d3@4ax.com>...
> >Has anybody else had bad dealings with Computeach???
>
> I finished a course with Computeach in July2001, and have to say I
> thought the tutors and the course were both excellent. I will admit it
> was a lot of money, but then you only gets what you pays for IMO.
>
> I have not yet found a job, but that is primarily due to the fact that
> I don't want to move, there has been a collapse in the IT jobs
> market, and I currently have a job I enjoy, even if it doesn't pay
> well :-)
>
> HOWEVER, I totally agree that the spiel I got about Software
> professionals 'proactively' looking for jobs for you can at best be
> described as misleading. Since my finishing I am lead to believe there
> have been changes made in how Software Professionals are 'presented'
> to prospective students and also they appear to be more interested in
> helping you find work.
Yes, Jim I do agree with you that the tutors are very good and the
course materials not bad in that they try to teach the basics well
rather then cramming in loads of different topics to become a Jack of
all trades master of none. If that's what you want they can be
recommended although my own opinion would be to try something like the
OU where you could aim for a far more recognized and prestigious
qualification e.g. a degree at less cost.
However unlike you I believe most people are lured to Computeach by
there employment claims which is why they push them so much. My
feeling is if they couldn't even manage to come up with some
employment prospects at a time when the IT market was supposedly
booming in 98/99 I can't see them coming up with much when there's a
lot less work around.
Thanks to everybody for there replies and I hope this thread has
helped inform potential students.
| |
| privatemike 2003-02-08, 8:24 am |
| "Tamus The First" <tom_smith60@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<4gUX9.11919$I83.8339@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Has anybody else had bad dealings with Computeach???
This guy must have been pretty unhappy! How did you get on P and Bee
- how does the story end?
From: Phil (pjgraphics@lineone.net)
Subject: computeach international
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.consumers.experiences
Date: 2001-10-25 14:33:18 PST
I started a course on programming and through no fault of my own I had
to
stop it. My father-in-law came to live with us due to illness and I
became
his carer, and due to the stress caused with his illness my partner
who has
progressive Multiple Sclerosis got worse. This has meant I am also
her
carer now and as such we are trying to make the most of life while her
mobility is'nt totally restricted. As I said the
course I started had to go out of the window, and this decision was
taken
very seriously due to the fact it had cost nearly £700 in deposit and
I had
to take out a Career Development Loan for £2000. I asked Computeach
if they
would return the money for the loan and keep the deposit as I had only
done
3 months of the course and had recieved only 2 ringbinders, 3 books, 3
audio
cassettes and an organiser. This was fair I thought, but no the told
me
no refunds were available! After threatening them with a web site
they
offered me £250 as a "gesture of goodwill". I refused this and they
then
offered me £750, this was also refused. The reason I had to refuse is
that
the amount I need is to pay of the loan before it is due as I then
don't
have to pay any interest
( which would be ok if we had any money, but as a carer you don't need
it
apparently ). Computeach then called my bluff ( I only just know how
to use
the internet never mind build a web site ) and withdrew all offers so
my
friend Nige has allowed me to use his computer to advertise my plight
and
ask for help. I need to convince Computeach that they are losing
business
by me highlighting the fact that an "international company" is so
strapped
for
cash that they have to rip off the disabled! I don't mind losing the
deposit as that would be fair for admin costs and the books etc, but
£2700
is abit steep!!!!!! please help me if you agree by contacting Alan
Postans
by e-mail at student.support@computeach.co.uk. All it has to say is
that
you support P Glister student number 485884 and that you would
not consider using them for training and would also be telling your
friends
about this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP as you can see we are desperate
and
my partner is getting visibly worse due to the worry
If you don't do anything else this year do this and help somebody who
is a
victim of circumstance and greed
Yours
P Glister & Bee Moran
| |
| privatemike 2003-02-08, 8:24 am |
| > > I have not yet found a job, but that is primarily due to the fact that
> > I don't want to move, there has been a collapse in the IT jobs
> > market, and I currently have a job I enjoy, even if it doesn't pay
> > well :-)
> >
> > HOWEVER, I totally agree that the spiel I got about Software
> > professionals 'proactively' looking for jobs for you can at best be
> > described as misleading. Since my finishing I am lead to believe there
> > have been changes made in how Software Professionals are 'presented'
> > to prospective students and also they appear to be more interested in
> > helping you find work.
However unlike you I believe most people are lured to Computeach by
> there employment claims which is why they push them so much. My
> feeling is if they couldn't even manage to come up with some
> employment prospects at a time when the IT market was supposedly
> booming in 98/99 I can't see them coming up with much when there's a
> lot less work around.
>
> Thanks to everybody for there replies and I hope this thread has
> helped inform potential students.
well even the advertising standards think computeah are exaggerating
apparently! I wonder how many people they suckered in with false
promises - I wonder if they have any statistics on students getting
jobs as a whole fromeveryone enrolling? perhaps people could complain
they handed over their dosh under false pretences and get some back.
It would be interesting. I am looking for an distance learning It
(nore basic at first) course and ICS and computeach are too much,
could anyone recommend a couple that arent s o pricey? ta
Media: National press
Sector: Computers and telecommunications
Agency: Attinger Jack Advertising
Public Complaint From: Somerset
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Complaint:
Objection to advertisement, for an IT training company, that claimed
"... 'It's a boom industry, crying out for energetic and well trained
people' ...". The complainant believed recruitment in the IT industry
had fallen by about 50% since 2001 and thought the claim was therefore
misleading.
Codes Section: 3.1, 7.1 (Ed 10)
Adjudication:
Complaint upheld
The advertisers sent extracts from press reports that predicted that
IT spending would increase in 2002, stated that many companies
reported computer skills gaps and claimed many information and
communications technology companies were recruiting to grow and many
employers expected to take on more IT staff. Figures from the
Recruitment and Employment Confederation's Report on Jobs showed that
demand for permanent IT staff was increasing slowly after a sharp fall
in 2001 but that demand for temporary IT staff had fallen every month
for over a year. The Authority understood certain skills were in high
demand but the IT industry as a whole was no longer growing rapidly.
It considered that the claim was exaggerated and misleading and asked
the advertisers not to use it again
| |
|
| whysobusy2001@yahoo.co.uk (privatemike) wrote in message news:<309b4046.0302080543.7bfcad58@posting.google.com>... [colo
r=darkred]
> > > I have not yet found a job, but that is primarily due to the fact that
> > > I don't want to move, there has been a collapse in the IT jobs
> > > market, and I currently have a job I enjoy, even if it doesn't pay
> > > well :-)
> > >
> > > HOWEVER, I totally agree that the spiel I got about Software
> > > professionals 'proactively' looking for jobs for you can at best be
> > > described as misleading. Since my finishing I am lead to believe there
> > > have been changes made in how Software Professionals are 'presented'
> > > to prospective students and also they appear to be more interested in
> > > helping you find work.
> However unlike you I believe most people are lured to Computeach by
> > there employment claims which is why they push them so much. My
> > feeling is if they couldn't even manage to come up with some
> > employment prospects at a time when the IT market was supposedly
> > booming in 98/99 I can't see them coming up with much when there's a
> > lot less work around.
> >
> > Thanks to everybody for there replies and I hope this thread has
> > helped inform potential students.
>
>
> well even the advertising standards think computeah are exaggerating
> apparently! I wonder how many people they suckered in with false
> promises - I wonder if they have any statistics on students getting
> jobs as a whole fromeveryone enrolling? perhaps people could complain
> they handed over their dosh under false pretences and get some back.
> It would be interesting. I am looking for an distance learning It
> (nore basic at first) course and ICS and computeach are too much,
> could anyone recommend a couple that arent s o pricey? ta
>
> Media: National press
>
> Sector: Computers and telecommunications
>
> Agency: Attinger Jack Advertising
>
> Public Complaint From: Somerset
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Complaint:
> Objection to advertisement, for an IT training company, that claimed
> "... 'It's a boom industry, crying out for energetic and well trained
> people' ...". The complainant believed recruitment in the IT industry
> had fallen by about 50% since 2001 and thought the claim was therefore
> misleading.
>
> Codes Section: 3.1, 7.1 (Ed 10)
> Adjudication:
> Complaint upheld
> The advertisers sent extracts from press reports that predicted that
> IT spending would increase in 2002, stated that many companies
> reported computer skills gaps and claimed many information and
> communications technology companies were recruiting to grow and many
> employers expected to take on more IT staff. Figures from the
> Recruitment and Employment Confederation's Report on Jobs showed that
> demand for permanent IT staff was increasing slowly after a sharp fall
> in 2001 but that demand for temporary IT staff had fallen every month
> for over a year. The Authority understood certain skills were in high
> demand but the IT industry as a whole was no longer growing rapidly.
> It considered that the claim was exaggerated and misleading and asked
> the advertisers not to use it again[/color]
Hi, I've already detailed that the best courses I've done as regard
recognition, content, and value for money are by far the Open
University. They can also be a bit pricey to some I'm afraid, £400
average, and the tutor support can be a bit poor if your unlucky but
by and large I found their courses superb, and I did 6.They have some
basic level 1 starter courses and for people who are unemployed the
cost is very highly supplemented, I paid about £50 for two courses
when I wasn't working a few years back and even got an award later to
cover material costs which was more then what I paid.
I hope this will help you.
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