|
Home > Archive > alt.certification.mcse > October 2003 > How is the job market.
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
How is the job market.
|
|
| Network Engineer 2003-10-17, 4:25 pm |
| How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
----------------------------------
Life is all about helping each other
----------------------------------
| |
| Frederic 2003-10-17, 5:25 pm |
| 127 jobs posted today for MCSE in Canada (workopolis)
http://www.workopolis.com/content/f...technology.html
--
Frederic
------------------------------------------------------
http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
------------------------------------------------------
"Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Life is all about helping each other
> ----------------------------------
>
>
| |
| pheonix1t 2003-10-17, 7:25 pm |
| Network Engineer wrote:
> How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Life is all about helping each other
> ----------------------------------
>
>
in the crapper.........it seems an MCSE has a better chance of hooking
up with Amelia Earhart than landing a stable full-time job!
| |
| Frederic 2003-10-17, 11:25 pm |
| and a search on www.monster.com show 1116 mcse jobs in the states
--
Frederic
------------------------------------------------------
http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
------------------------------------------------------
"Frederic" <frederic_quebec2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RMYjb.58678$uG5.1003186@weber.videotron.net...
> 127 jobs posted today for MCSE in Canada (workopolis)
> http://www.workopolis.com/content/f...technology.html
>
> --
> Frederic
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > Life is all about helping each other
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:01:58 -0400, "Frederic"
<frederic_quebec2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>127 jobs posted today for MCSE in Canada (workopolis)
>http://www.workopolis.com/content/f...technology.html
.... and this means.. what?
----------------------------
We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
- the late Warren Zevon. 'Keep me in your heart for awhile'
| |
| 127.0.0.1 2003-10-18, 12:24 am |
|
"Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
it's great! me and a fellow ccna are making $12/hour each at a temp agency
replacing win95 machines with winXP machines. one of these days, i'll get
that level one desktop support job i've always wanted (it's a $00.50 pay
increase).
i'm not being sarcastic. it's either that or non-skilled labour (just bring
2 forms of ID).
columbus, ohio has many listings. i usually make it in the top 20 out of 200
applicants. i figured that having AT$T/Lucent in my resume would easily get
me a job after being laid off. wassup wit dat?
"will work IT for food"
"save a MCSE foundation"
-a|ex
there's no place like 127.0.0.1
| |
| Walking Fish 2003-10-18, 10:24 am |
| Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
Yes, the economy sucks right now and it has for a while.
Many IT professionals are working underpaid or even unemployed.
How do you think a 'public policy' graduate feels these days? Or a
nutritionist or graphic designer or whatever..
I'm an economist, I went through a pretty tough school and spent a lot
of time and money so that I could be a Master of Arts in Economics.
Guess what, I didn' get the job I dreamed of. Yes, I too whined for a
while, then I realized that I can only change myself and that what I have
is not enough to compete. So I started with certifications and languages.
It worked out for me and I love it, I wouldn't give up my job even if I
was offered a position as head economist of the World Bank..
The MCSE alone will not get you the job you want, you need a lot
more these days. Still, you can't afford not to have it because the
competition does..
"127.0.0.1" <loopy@localhost> wrote in message
news:_Z2kb.1125$Uz6.123@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
>
> it's great! me and a fellow ccna are making $12/hour each at a temp agency
> replacing win95 machines with winXP machines. one of these days, i'll get
> that level one desktop support job i've always wanted (it's a $00.50 pay
> increase).
>
> i'm not being sarcastic. it's either that or non-skilled labour (just
bring
> 2 forms of ID).
> columbus, ohio has many listings. i usually make it in the top 20 out of
200
> applicants. i figured that having AT$T/Lucent in my resume would easily
get
> me a job after being laid off. wassup wit dat?
>
> "will work IT for food"
> "save a MCSE foundation"
>
> -a|ex
> there's no place like 127.0.0.1
>
>
| |
| 127.0.0.1 2003-10-18, 12:25 pm |
|
"Walking Fish" <nospam@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3f913edf_2@news.arcor-ip.de...
> Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
> Yes, the economy sucks right now and it has for a while.
> Many IT professionals are working underpaid or even unemployed.
>
> How do you think a 'public policy' graduate feels these days? Or a
> nutritionist or graphic designer or whatever..
i graduated with a BS in graphic design, but made more money in IT.
there is a huge difference in what field of study you graduate from. medical
vs IT vs graphic design.
guess which one easily gets a job? graphic design is a different field than
network engineering. as a designer, your success depends on the quality of
work (you can fire your clients as easily as they can fire you). IT, you are
a number, not a person. designers don't get laid off. very rarely do nurses
or rad techs get laid off either. i'm not sure about nutritionalists or
massage therapists (i don't know any).
> I'm an economist, I went through a pretty tough school and spent a lot
> of time and money so that I could be a Master of Arts in Economics.
> Guess what, I didn' get the job I dreamed of. Yes, I too whined for a
> while, then I realized that I can only change myself and that what I have
> is not enough to compete. So I started with certifications and languages.
> It worked out for me and I love it, I wouldn't give up my job even if I
> was offered a position as head economist of the World Bank..
when you get laid off or replaced by outsourcing, then don't whine. i got
the job that i wanted, i just whined when i lost it.
> The MCSE alone will not get you the job you want, you need a lot
> more these days. Still, you can't afford not to have it because the
> competition does..
MCSE + experience isn't the case today, a surplus of experienced MCSE + no
jobs is the problem.
why would anyone want to get their certs for a jobless career? unless you
know something that the industry doesn't know.
my satire isn't about certs being worthless, it's about no job opportunity
in that field with or without certs.
i'm a corporate worker, not a small company worker. look at the corporate
economy for IT employment figures vs those for the small companies. small
companies are taking advantage of the vast experienced surplus IT
professionals for 1/3 their worth. you think a newbie with all the certs can
compete with that?
a good example: a fellow peer during the 2001 layoffs was teasing me that i
was gona loose my job as a bell labs network engineer. he was ccie
instructor who helped design part of the test.
when the 2nd round of layoffs were announced i was spared. in irony, cisco
has laid off this friend. unfortunately, i didn't survive the 3rd round of
layoffs. this friend easily found a job because of his professional contacts
(he was hired by one of his previous client). btw, i didn't have any certs
when i was promoted to network engineer (i was a cable puller).
-a|ex
| |
|
| The number of postings you see on those sites means nothing. I repeat,
nothing. Most of them are from staffing and IT placement companies pooling
resumes for the once a year they get a call for one. They don't have any
jobs for anyone.
I know. I work in the IT department for one.
"Frederic" <frederic_quebec2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RMYjb.58678$uG5.1003186@weber.videotron.net...
> 127 jobs posted today for MCSE in Canada (workopolis)
> http://www.workopolis.com/content/f...technology.html
>
> --
> Frederic
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > Life is all about helping each other
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:23:26 +0200, "Walking Fish" <nospam@mail.com>
wrote:
>Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
...Oh please.. what? You are not in my shoes. I am speaking of my own
experience. MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE, 15 years experience. It took me 1.5
years to land a job. Don't talk to me about the hundreds of "jobs" on
some job board or other. That doesn't mean anything.
I am happily employed now, even if I took a 35% pay cute. I am dammed
glad to be working and grateful to the company who finally hired me.
But if somebody asks how the job market is, do you expect me to say
that it is peachy-keen? Save your condescending one-liners for
somebody else.
----------------------------
We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
- the late Warren Zevon. 'Keep me in your heart for awhile'
| |
| Walking Fish 2003-10-19, 7:25 am |
| Amusing irony, our graphic and web designing departments were the first to
experience some major cuts. That just shows you how different the situation
can be depending on what kind of company you're with and where you are
(geographically). Our designing team just couldn't be made billable. It
seemed that the last thing anyone had money for was a prettier website or a
fancier logo..
You are a number as soon as you go corporate. That's my experience at least
and I have friends who are nutritionists, consultants, tax advisors, .. many
had to find a new job and no one claimed to have been laid off in a
personal, human way. I love working for small companies. Your job may even
be less secure in a small company, but when you have to go you know the
chief didn't have a choice. Also, it won't hit you quite so totally out of
the blue, you may have time to look around before you're sitting at home..
My point is not far from yours, I think. 'Network Engineer' asked how the
job market is for MCSE certified professionals. My answer:
1. The job market for MCSE certified engineers is bad, but quite a bit
better than for individuals without it.
2. Although the IT industry (and job market) was hit especially hard
(because there was a huge bubble), argument number one goes for every other
field of business. A BA or MA is worth close to nothing by itself (and that,
too, used to be different!).
3. The flexibility requirement extends to geography. There may not be an
open position for you in a 50 mile radius, you
may have to move. In your example with your teasing coworker, you're right,
good contacts can make life much easier. However, a CCIE/MCSE with
experience will DEFINITELY find a good job if he's willing to leave his
neighborhood.
I too started as a cable puller, even though I had certs qualifying me
beyond that.. and I still pull sometimes)..
To Skip: We are all speaking out of our own experience (I hope!). I
apologize if I sounded condescending, my post had many many lines though ?!
"127.0.0.1" <loopy@localhost> wrote in message
news:nYckb.2241$W16.1579@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Walking Fish" <nospam@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:3f913edf_2@news.arcor-ip.de...
> > Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
> > Yes, the economy sucks right now and it has for a while.
> > Many IT professionals are working underpaid or even unemployed.
> >
> > How do you think a 'public policy' graduate feels these days? Or a
> > nutritionist or graphic designer or whatever..
>
> i graduated with a BS in graphic design, but made more money in IT.
> there is a huge difference in what field of study you graduate from.
medical
> vs IT vs graphic design.
> guess which one easily gets a job? graphic design is a different field
than
> network engineering. as a designer, your success depends on the quality of
> work (you can fire your clients as easily as they can fire you). IT, you
are
> a number, not a person. designers don't get laid off. very rarely do
nurses
> or rad techs get laid off either. i'm not sure about nutritionalists or
> massage therapists (i don't know any).
>
> > I'm an economist, I went through a pretty tough school and spent a lot
> > of time and money so that I could be a Master of Arts in Economics.
> > Guess what, I didn' get the job I dreamed of. Yes, I too whined for a
> > while, then I realized that I can only change myself and that what I
have
> > is not enough to compete. So I started with certifications and
languages.
> > It worked out for me and I love it, I wouldn't give up my job even if I
> > was offered a position as head economist of the World Bank..
>
> when you get laid off or replaced by outsourcing, then don't whine. i got
> the job that i wanted, i just whined when i lost it.
>
> > The MCSE alone will not get you the job you want, you need a lot
> > more these days. Still, you can't afford not to have it because the
> > competition does..
>
> MCSE + experience isn't the case today, a surplus of experienced MCSE + no
> jobs is the problem.
> why would anyone want to get their certs for a jobless career? unless you
> know something that the industry doesn't know.
>
> my satire isn't about certs being worthless, it's about no job opportunity
> in that field with or without certs.
> i'm a corporate worker, not a small company worker. look at the corporate
> economy for IT employment figures vs those for the small companies. small
> companies are taking advantage of the vast experienced surplus IT
> professionals for 1/3 their worth. you think a newbie with all the certs
can
> compete with that?
>
> a good example: a fellow peer during the 2001 layoffs was teasing me that
i
> was gona loose my job as a bell labs network engineer. he was ccie
> instructor who helped design part of the test.
>
> when the 2nd round of layoffs were announced i was spared. in irony, cisco
> has laid off this friend. unfortunately, i didn't survive the 3rd round of
> layoffs. this friend easily found a job because of his professional
contacts
> (he was hired by one of his previous client). btw, i didn't have any certs
> when i was promoted to network engineer (i was a cable puller).
>
> -a|ex
>
>
| |
|
| How is the Job Market for MCSE's?
The job market or advertisements for all IT positions have little to do
with reality. The number of jobs in a given newspaper or what the rumor
mill provides mean nothing either.
Like the schools and Certificate Mills, the newspapers, Monster.com or
Hot Jobs on the internet kind of paint a rosy picture when in fact if
you look very carefully, you will note that many are the same adds week
after week and this goes on for months.
Additionally, you may also note that 5 or 6 of those the damned temp
agencies advertise for the very same positions because they bid on
contracts. What is more, most of the jobs do not even exist yet because
they interview people for prospective positions and then make plans
around the results to formulate bids.
My suggestion is to use temp agencies only if you are up against a wall
or just need to get started to get experience. Once that is done, you
need to try to get a direct hire position and not through a temp agency
because it will effect you salary offer.
However, the answer to your question in my opinion is "Not very Good!"
Network Engineer wrote:
> How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Life is all about helping each other
> ----------------------------------
>
>
| |
| Developwebsites 2003-10-19, 3:25 pm |
| do the reverse.
instead of getting certs and then a job,
get a job and if the boss wants certs get them and let him pay for it.
The only ones making $ is M$.
--------------------------------------------------
remove *batSPAM* to e-mail me
--------------------------------------------------
| |
|
| Unfortunately, unless you have experience you will not be able to do the
job for the company so why would they hire you? Your suggestion is what
we would all like to happen to us, but seldom does.
Ray
Developwebsites wrote:
> do the reverse.
> instead of getting certs and then a job,
> get a job and if the boss wants certs get them and let him pay for it.
>
> The only ones making $ is M$.
> --------------------------------------------------
> remove *batSPAM* to e-mail me
> --------------------------------------------------
| |
| Frederic 2003-10-19, 9:25 pm |
|
"Before the year 2000, thousands of IT jobs went begging. Market surveys
reported that there was a gap between the high number of open jobs and a
lower number of skilled men and women qualified to fill those positions.
Many articles were written about the IT "skills gap."
Three years after the start of the new millennium, there are still thousands
of job vacancies. The difference today is that there are also now thousands
of experienced, proven IT professionals unable to find work."
(...)
"There are strong indications that the economy will rebound, and with it,
the technology buying that spurs a demand for trained workers to support new
applications. This will help to ease head-count restrictions. Openings in
local, state and federal government are also expected to increase,
principally due to personnel retiring."
(...)
With the industry maturing, however, and standards in place for what
constitutes this job or that, we can expect the IT skills gap to narrow. IT
professionals who are equipped not only with the specialties and credentials
to prove their skills, but also with the auxiliary softer skills, will be in
a much better position to communicate to a prospective employer the unique
value they offer, and in doing so they increase their chances of being
hired.
http://www.certmag.com/articles/tem...id=203&zoneid=9
--
Frederic
MCP, i-Net+, CIWA, A+
------------------------------------------------------
http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
------------------------------------------------------
"Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Life is all about helping each other
> ----------------------------------
>
>
| |
| Gakker 2003-10-20, 3:26 am |
| I don't think anyone is disagreeing here that the economy sucks. I
think what we are disagreeing on is what about it that sucks  Like
the 50% pay cute that I took. I used to make 100k prior to 9/11 and
now it's halved. Sure that bites because I spent 15 years building my
career with CCNA, CISSP, MCSE and more; and now I'm back to doing a
job I did nearly 10 years ago. Can you hear the bleeding violins!!!!
That's what I'm talking about and many other of my tech colleagues.
But hey I'm happy to be working in such a crap economy and as soon as
the market goes up I'll be aiming high again for my old pay.  Keep
studying and do what you have to do to stay in the game.
That my crap 2 cents.
Good luck!
G.
"Frederic" <frederic_quebec2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ytGkb.15916$4y4.533820@weber.videotron.net>...
> "Before the year 2000, thousands of IT jobs went begging. Market surveys
> reported that there was a gap between the high number of open jobs and a
> lower number of skilled men and women qualified to fill those positions.
> Many articles were written about the IT "skills gap."
> Three years after the start of the new millennium, there are still thousands
> of job vacancies. The difference today is that there are also now thousands
> of experienced, proven IT professionals unable to find work."
>
> (...)
>
> "There are strong indications that the economy will rebound, and with it,
> the technology buying that spurs a demand for trained workers to support new
> applications. This will help to ease head-count restrictions. Openings in
> local, state and federal government are also expected to increase,
> principally due to personnel retiring."
>
> (...)
>
> With the industry maturing, however, and standards in place for what
> constitutes this job or that, we can expect the IT skills gap to narrow. IT
> professionals who are equipped not only with the specialties and credentials
> to prove their skills, but also with the auxiliary softer skills, will be in
> a much better position to communicate to a prospective employer the unique
> value they offer, and in doing so they increase their chances of being
> hired.
>
> http://www.certmag.com/articles/tem...id=203&zoneid=9
>
> --
> Frederic
> MCP, i-Net+, CIWA, A+
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://fredsfastcram.netfirms.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > Life is all about helping each other
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> >
| |
| Robert Tourangeau 2003-10-21, 9:26 am |
| I thing that people on this forum should mention if they are from USA.
Why is that?
Because the economy in USA is bad and It is not the same situation
elsewhere.
People in USA are paying the price of a worthless war.
I guess It was the American dream to save the world.
"Walking Fish" <nospam@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:3f913edf_2@news.arcor-ip.de...
> Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
> Yes, the economy sucks right now and it has for a while.
> Many IT professionals are working underpaid or even unemployed.
>
> How do you think a 'public policy' graduate feels these days? Or a
> nutritionist or graphic designer or whatever..
>
> I'm an economist, I went through a pretty tough school and spent a lot
> of time and money so that I could be a Master of Arts in Economics.
> Guess what, I didn' get the job I dreamed of. Yes, I too whined for a
> while, then I realized that I can only change myself and that what I have
> is not enough to compete. So I started with certifications and languages.
> It worked out for me and I love it, I wouldn't give up my job even if I
> was offered a position as head economist of the World Bank..
>
> The MCSE alone will not get you the job you want, you need a lot
> more these days. Still, you can't afford not to have it because the
> competition does..
>
>
>
>
>
> "127.0.0.1" <loopy@localhost> wrote in message
> news:_Z2kb.1125$Uz6.123@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Network Engineer" <unknow@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:6XXjb.1297$Y1.379@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > > How is the job market these days for MCSE certified Network Engineers.
> >
> > it's great! me and a fellow ccna are making $12/hour each at a temp
agency
> > replacing win95 machines with winXP machines. one of these days, i'll
get
> > that level one desktop support job i've always wanted (it's a $00.50 pay
> > increase).
> >
> > i'm not being sarcastic. it's either that or non-skilled labour (just
> bring
> > 2 forms of ID).
> > columbus, ohio has many listings. i usually make it in the top 20 out of
> 200
> > applicants. i figured that having AT$T/Lucent in my resume would easily
> get
> > me a job after being laid off. wassup wit dat?
> >
> > "will work IT for food"
> > "save a MCSE foundation"
> >
> > -a|ex
> > there's no place like 127.0.0.1
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Randall 2003-10-21, 5:25 pm |
| I live in the Philadelphia area and I work for a big pharmaceutical.
I am a higher end MCSE, with a few other high demand certs (No need
brag). I am seeing more jobs now then I have seen in the last 3 year.
Things are turning around here. I have seen 5 to 6 jobs that would
have been perfect for my skill sets.
There is going to be a big change in our field in the next two
years. If you are reading this news group you are where you should
be. I know a ton of people in the field. I don't know that many
people getting training right now. There is going to be a hugh
shortage of MCSEs. I have been in this field a long time and the
market is going to be like it was in 1999 in about 2 years.
Study hard, buy another Corvette.
Skip <Skip@NoAddress.invalid> wrote in message news:< 990eac7a8cf7be13aceeea354ba998
bf@news.1usenet.com>...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:23:26 +0200, "Walking Fish" <nospam@mail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Oh please, Skip and phoenix1t..!
>
> ..Oh please.. what? You are not in my shoes. I am speaking of my own
> experience. MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE, 15 years experience. It took me 1.5
> years to land a job. Don't talk to me about the hundreds of "jobs" on
> some job board or other. That doesn't mean anything.
>
> I am happily employed now, even if I took a 35% pay cute. I am dammed
> glad to be working and grateful to the company who finally hired me.
> But if somebody asks how the job market is, do you expect me to say
> that it is peachy-keen? Save your condescending one-liners for
> somebody else.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------
>
> We contemplate eternity
> Beneath the vast indifference of heaven
>
> - the late Warren Zevon. 'Keep me in your heart for awhile'
|
|
|
|
|