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Why Bother With MCSE?
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| Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
before going down this road.
| |
| John Halma 2002-12-13, 10:25 pm |
| I have to say I got my MCSE 2 years ago (NT4), and it definitely helped me
land a job. I'm only doing tech support not making much money, but I got my
foot in the door. I also offerred my services to people that have a buisness
that would give me a reference, and some background to use on my resume.
I did forget about 70% of the stuff I studied though. You'll only learn it
by doing it.
John
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
news an.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
| |
| Paul E Larson 2002-12-14, 12:25 am |
| "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com:
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux,
With your abilities - http://www.megamillions.com/
| |
| Joe Smith 2002-12-14, 12:25 am |
| It will be a long while (if ever) before Linux takes over the majority of
market share. This is a double edge sword, corporation will not rush to
migrate their existing systems over night, the fact that there is not enough
Linux experts out there will also factor in to the decisions of many
organizations. Furthermore, until Linux becomes user friendly with desktop
OS I don't see Linux overtaking MS's market share anytime soon.
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
| |
| Logos+Fabula 2002-12-14, 1:25 am |
| On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:45:54 GMT, "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com>
wrote:
>Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
>are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
>of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
>will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
>boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
>few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
>Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
>before going down this road.
Do you know how many € or $ does a Linux certification cost? Go and
see RedHat Certification Program and make yourself an idea.
I think that MS certs are a good and not too much expensive way to put
your knowledge in your resumé, am I so wrong?
| |
| Derek Beaumont 2002-12-14, 5:25 am |
| Linux won't do anything until all versions of it are completely
standardized! there's no way any of the corporations that I've worked for
would use it due to that fact.
Imaging rolling out Red Hat (or any other flavor) on your servers only to
find a year later that an app you need will no longer be supported on your
version of linux!
This has just hapen to us with Solaris running on Intel chipsets - although
Solaris realized this and went back on their plans!
Microsoft have the near future safely tucked away in their pockets!
Deker
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
| |
| David J 2002-12-14, 2:25 pm |
| I'm not sure if Linux will ever beat out MS. I have one left for my MCSE and
I did look at Linux before I started studying. It's not standardized, it
changes way too often, it isn't user friendly, there is no where near the
support. And although some might think that's great for Linux techs, it
isn't because companies aren't going to base their network around an OS with
those attributes. The only place I have seen Linux really used in production
is where a small tech company thinks they have the market cornered on
firewalls since no one else knows it. It's garbage. I've even taken 2
courses and I still couldn't get into it. For me, Linux is not the way to
go.
David
"Derek Beaumont" <d_beaumont@ReMoVe.Me.ntlworldDOTcom> wrote in message
news:g%CK9.449$1N.9759@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Linux won't do anything until all versions of it are completely
> standardized! there's no way any of the corporations that I've worked for
> would use it due to that fact.
>
> Imaging rolling out Red Hat (or any other flavor) on your servers only to
> find a year later that an app you need will no longer be supported on your
> version of linux!
>
> This has just hapen to us with Solaris running on Intel chipsets -
although
> Solaris realized this and went back on their plans!
>
> Microsoft have the near future safely tucked away in their pockets!
>
> Deker
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> > Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> > are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive
amounts
> > of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> > will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> > boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> > few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> > Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> > before going down this road.
>
>
| |
| Jeffrey W. Roach 2002-12-14, 3:25 pm |
| Why I'm replying to a troll I'll never know, but oh well...
Linux will make a small impact on Windows, mainly in web services, and web
hosting, but it do more to the Unix Camp, Linux will replace AIX, HP-UX and
SUN Solaris. That will happen slowly, mainly because Linux needs more
standardization and better security controls. Of course when Red-Hat becomes
the only Linux distro that corporate America will use, all of the Linux
Zealots (Stallmanites) will de-cry that they have become another monopoly
and are stifling innovation, wait a minute they already are saying that.
They will then flock to HURD or one of the BSD's or try to rally another
distro of Linux. Of course Steve Jobs could destroy all of Linux's dreams if
he would concentrate more in getting OS X into the Enterprise Market
especially if he adopts IBM's 64 bit Power Processor, Apple will have one of
the most user friendly Unix Workstations around, which could hurt SUN and HP
and hurt any chances of the Linux Desktop. Oh well just my thoughts, feel
free to disagree or bash me. And yes I do run a Linux Server (its the only
cheap way for me to practice Unix/Windows interoperability). I've run both
SAMBA and MS Services for Unix.
--
Jeffrey W. Roach
MCSE, MCSA, CNA, Network+, A+
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
| |
|
| On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:39:01 +0000, Derek Beaumont wrote:
> Linux won't do anything until all versions of it are completely
> standardized! there's no way any of the corporations that I've worked for
> would use it due to that fact.
There are many standards for Linux. There is also many ways to do things
in it. You would not know because you know nothing about it.
>
> Imaging rolling out Red Hat (or any other flavor) on your servers only to
> find a year later that an app you need will no longer be supported on your
> version of linux!
Can you give me an example of this in Linux? I doubt you can because you
know littl about it.
>
> This has just hapen to us with Solaris running on Intel chipsets - although
> Solaris realized this and went back on their plans!
Well i don't think Linux is going to abandon the X86 chip any time soon!
>
> Microsoft have the near future safely tucked away in their pockets!
Ya keep telling your self that.
>
> Deker
| |
|
| On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:57:30 +0000, Logos+Fabula wrote:
> Do you know how many € or $ does a Linux certification cost?
You have to go take a class to learn about something? Do you not know how
to buy a book and read it.
> Go and see RedHat Certification Program and make yourself an idea.
I am well on my way to obtaining my RHCE and so far the only cost has been
3 books.
> I think that MS certs are a good and not too much expensive way to put
> your knowledge in your resumé, am I so wrong?
M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
experience or even ever installing anything.
| |
| Hugh Dunit 2002-12-14, 4:25 pm |
|
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
Found it too hard eh Jeff?
--
Dunit.
| |
| Hugh Dunit 2002-12-14, 4:25 pm |
|
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.19.59.29.826814@notmail.com...
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:57:30 +0000, Logos+Fabula wrote:
> M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
> experience or even ever installing anything.
So how many of em did you pass with this 'method' troll?
--
Dunit
| |
| Paul E Larson 2002-12-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in
newsan.2002.12.14.19.59.29.826814@notmail.com:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:57:30 +0000, Logos+Fabula wrote:
>
>> Do you know how many € or $ does a Linux certification cost?
>
> You have to go take a class to learn about something? Do you not know
> how to buy a book and read it.
>
exams <> courses.
>> Go and see RedHat Certification Program and make yourself an idea.
>
> I am well on my way to obtaining my RHCE and so far the only cost has
> been 3 books.
>
And your time and at least one probably two machines and the cost of the
exams!
>> I think that MS certs are a good and not too much expensive way to
>> put your knowledge in your resumé, am I so wrong?
>
> M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
> experience or even ever installing anything.
>
So how many have you passed?
| |
|
| On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:23:38 +0000, Paul E Larson wrote:
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in
> newsan.2002.12.14.19.59.29.826814@notmail.com:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:57:30 +0000, Logos+Fabula wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know how many € or $ does a Linux certification cost?
>>
>> You have to go take a class to learn about something? Do you not know
>> how to buy a book and read it.
>>
>
> exams <> courses.
>
>>> Go and see RedHat Certification Program and make yourself an idea.
>>
>> I am well on my way to obtaining my RHCE and so far the only cost has
>> been 3 books.
>>
>
> And your time and at least one probably two machines and the cost of the
> exams!
That or one good system and vmware, exam cost are about the same across
the board for all exams. Just the RHCE is $750 all at once.
>
>>> I think that MS certs are a good and not too much expensive way to
>>> put your knowledge in your resumé, am I so wrong?
>>
>> M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
>> experience or even ever installing anything.
>>
>
> So how many have you passed?
About 15 of them.
| |
|
| On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:12:08 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.14.19.59.29.826814@notmail.com...
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:57:30 +0000, Logos+Fabula wrote:
>> M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
>> experience or even ever installing anything.
>
> So how many of em did you pass with this 'method' troll?
>
> --
> Dunit
I am not a troll and have passed 15 of them with out that method. My point
is that method should not exist they should make the tests hands-on and
make the tests harder.
| |
|
| On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 08:57:58 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
>> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
>> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
>> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
>> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
>> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
>> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
>> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
>> before going down this road.
>
> Found it too hard eh Jeff?
>
> --
> Dunit.
No I have my MCSE in both 2k and NT4.
| |
| Maverick 2002-12-14, 7:25 pm |
| > "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in
> newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com:
>
> > Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> > are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive
amounts
> > of market share over the next few years to Linux,
>
I suppose it depends on the situation that you are presently in. If you live
in a small area, like I do, the MCSE is very valuable because it's hard to
find someone with those credentials in a small place. The metropolis areas
would have a slew of them.
However, I know someone who obtained his MCSE and is still working as a
lobster fisherman and he obtained the MCSE to get out of that situation. He
lives in a small community though, and since his wife has a good job, is
unwilling to move. Go figure.
| |
| Maverick 2002-12-14, 7:25 pm |
| It's like the Novell CNA and CNE. Five years ago, they were in very high
demand, but now everyone wants MCSE. Of course, that has to do with the fact
that MS is on 90% of the world's PCs. I happen to like Novell though. I
thought about obtaining my CNA a couple of years ago, but went with the MCSE
track instead.
| |
| Maverick 2002-12-14, 7:25 pm |
|
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any hands-on
> experience or even ever installing anything.
Yeah, but companies still think they are the end-all be-all when it comes to
certs. I think employers get together and form committees to discuss what
the "must have" certifications are. They think "we have a NT or 2000
network, so we need an MCSE or at least an MCSA."
Perhaps they believe that they will be liable in case anything happens to
the network and they have someone with just an A+. That said, I know people
with an A+ or Net+ who have way more hands-on experience than many of the
MCSE's that graduated in droves from some of the local colleges here.
| |
| Hugh Dunit 2002-12-15, 3:25 am |
|
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.22.25.32.695972@notmail.com...
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:12:08 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>
> I am not a troll and have passed 15 of them with out that method. My point
> is that method should not exist they should make the tests hands-on and
> make the tests harder.
Just wondering then- you said you are an MCSE in NT and 2k- serious question
here, what exams have you done?
I'm both and I've only done eleven MS exams so I'm curious as to what the
other 4 you have done are.
Seriously.
--
Dunit.
| |
|
| On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:03:04 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.14.22.25.32.695972@notmail.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:12:08 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>>
>> I am not a troll and have passed 15 of them with out that method. My point
>> is that method should not exist they should make the tests hands-on and
>> make the tests harder.
>
> Just wondering then- you said you are an MCSE in NT and 2k- serious question
> here, what exams have you done?
> I'm both and I've only done eleven MS exams so I'm curious as to what the
> other 4 you have done are.
>
> Seriously.
>
> --
> Dunit.
Opps only 12.
| |
| revcop 2002-12-15, 4:39 am |
| Well think of the cert like a trophy.
It makes you feel good you won something.
Just don't look at all the people that have won before you. | |
| sux0rs 2002-12-16, 2:25 am |
| I know a lot of guys who have obtained their MCSE and don't do nothing with
it, went on and became a teacher or whatever. They had a temp job at an ICT
company for a year (in the good years), got their MCSE's and that's it, the
boss would pay for it so what the heck.
So it maybe a fact that there are so many MCSE's but I wouldn't be surprised
if only 50% of that number actually works in the IT-field.
Grtz,
--
sux0rs @ www.defkon.org =)
Remove Ugh ...
"Maverick" <no@noway.net> wrote in message
news:qpQK9.5818$cN6.215962@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in
> > newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com:
> >
> > > Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than
there
> > > are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive
> amounts
> > > of market share over the next few years to Linux,
> >
>
> I suppose it depends on the situation that you are presently in. If you
live
> in a small area, like I do, the MCSE is very valuable because it's hard to
> find someone with those credentials in a small place. The metropolis areas
> would have a slew of them.
>
> However, I know someone who obtained his MCSE and is still working as a
> lobster fisherman and he obtained the MCSE to get out of that situation.
He
> lives in a small community though, and since his wife has a good job, is
> unwilling to move. Go figure.
>
>
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-16, 9:25 am |
| I hope for your sake, that the Linux exams don't have much addition on them.
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.15.07.24.33.243381@notmail.com...
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:03:04 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
>
> >
> > "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> > newsan.2002.12.14.22.25.32.695972@notmail.com...
> >> On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:12:08 +1100, Hugh Dunit wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not a troll and have passed 15 of them with out that method. My
point
> >> is that method should not exist they should make the tests hands-on and
> >> make the tests harder.
> >
> > Just wondering then- you said you are an MCSE in NT and 2k- serious
question
> > here, what exams have you done?
> > I'm both and I've only done eleven MS exams so I'm curious as to what
the
> > other 4 you have done are.
> >
> > Seriously.
> >
> > --
> > Dunit.
>
>
> Opps only 12.
>
>
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-16, 10:25 am |
| Why did you bother?
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.22.26.12.499281@notmail.com...
>
> No I have my MCSE in both 2k and NT4.
| |
| David J 2002-12-16, 4:25 pm |
| If you thought something was a total waste of time, would you spend the time
to prepare for it? The expense? And we're the stupid ones? Right, I see your
point.
David
MCSA, Net+
"Rob Hammersmith" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news5mL9.3146$37.352388@cletus.bright.net...
> Why did you bother?
>
> --
> Rob Hammersmith
> MCSA, CCEA
>
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.14.22.26.12.499281@notmail.com...
> >
> > No I have my MCSE in both 2k and NT4.
>
>
| |
|
| On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:12:44 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> I hope for your sake, that the Linux exams don't have much addition on them.
>
> --
> Rob Hammersmith
> MCSA, CCEA
>
Well I don't have them posted on my wall and the last exam I took was over
a year ago.
| |
|
| On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:15:31 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> Why did you bother?
>
> --
> Rob Hammersmith
> MCSA, CCEA
I have ask my self the same question.
| |
| Maverick 2002-12-17, 9:25 am |
| Nothing can make up for practical experience. The MCSE just shows that you
understand the academic (theory) side.
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-17, 9:25 am |
| So if you a person who easily forgets what you did, why bother getting
certified in anything at all?
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.16.22.08.08.403042@notmail.com...
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:12:44 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > I hope for your sake, that the Linux exams don't have much addition on
them.
> >
> > --
> > Rob Hammersmith
> > MCSA, CCEA
> >
>
>
> Well I don't have them posted on my wall and the last exam I took was over
> a year ago.
| |
| David J 2002-12-17, 12:25 pm |
| Not only did he go for his MCSE in NT, but the troll, apparently knowing how
useless it was, even upgraded it to W2K! I tell you, Unix/Linux people are a
funny breed. You always know a cubicle that belongs to one!
"AmC" <iis99999@email.com> wrote in message
news:df98e6f5.0212162148.2a166235@posting.google.com...
> "David J" <jacobucci@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:<fosL9.235730$ka.5613538@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> > If you thought something was a total waste of time, would you spend the
time
> > to prepare for it? The expense? And we're the stupid ones? Right, I see
your
> > point.
> > David
> > MCSA, Net+
> >
>
> Yeah but Dave, don't forget that Jeff says that "You can pass all
> these exams without any hands-on experience or even ever installing
> anything" so it didn't waste much of his valuable time. He did all
> 15... (or was it 12?) of his MS exams one morning while waiting for a
> Cron job to finish, just before grabbing a morning coffee.
>
> Also he's on $6,957,246 a year salary (as all nix administrators are
> on) so the cost is purely spare change to him!
>
> 
>
> AmC.
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-17, 1:26 pm |
| Not only did he upgrade his NT MCSE to W2K, but he did it the long way. He
could have passed the 70-240 and a couple other tests, instead of taking 5
more beyond his NT tests. Of course he may have waited until the 70-240
expired, thus it wasn't an option, which would mean that he upgraded his
MCSE to W2K fairly recently. So apparently this whole Linux thing is
probably nothing more than an epiphany to him. He has to share "the light"
that is new to him, but all of us have pretty much seen... and moved on
from.
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"David J" <jacobucci@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:mzJL9.112819$Qr.2855010@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> Not only did he go for his MCSE in NT, but the troll, apparently knowing
how
> useless it was, even upgraded it to W2K! I tell you, Unix/Linux people are
a
> funny breed. You always know a cubicle that belongs to one!
>
> "AmC" <iis99999@email.com> wrote in message
> news:df98e6f5.0212162148.2a166235@posting.google.com...
> > "David J" <jacobucci@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:<fosL9.235730$ka.5613538@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> > > If you thought something was a total waste of time, would you spend
the
> time
> > > to prepare for it? The expense? And we're the stupid ones? Right, I
see
> your
> > > point.
> > > David
> > > MCSA, Net+
> > >
> >
> > Yeah but Dave, don't forget that Jeff says that "You can pass all
> > these exams without any hands-on experience or even ever installing
> > anything" so it didn't waste much of his valuable time. He did all
> > 15... (or was it 12?) of his MS exams one morning while waiting for a
> > Cron job to finish, just before grabbing a morning coffee.
> >
> > Also he's on $6,957,246 a year salary (as all nix administrators are
> > on) so the cost is purely spare change to him!
> >
> >
> >
> > AmC.
>
>
| |
| Aaron campbell 2002-12-17, 6:25 pm |
| Jeff E-Mail me.
| |
|
| On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:36:15 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> So if you a person who easily forgets what you did, why bother getting
> certified in anything at all?
Sure for a person with few certifications like yourself, I can see how it
would be easy to keep track of every test you have done.
| |
|
| On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:44:46 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> Not only did he upgrade his NT MCSE to W2K, but he did it the long way.
Something wrong with taking the way in which you learn the most? Or are
you one of those that are just after the paper and like putting letters next
to your name?
> He
> could have passed the 70-240 and a couple other tests, instead of taking
> 5 more beyond his NT tests. Of course he may have waited until the
> 70-240 expired, thus it wasn't an option, which would mean that he
> upgraded his MCSE to W2K fairly recently.
Wrong got it in mid 2001.
> So apparently this whole Linux thing is probably nothing more than an
> epiphany to him. He has to share "the light" that is new to him, but all
> of us have pretty much seen... and moved on from.
Nope been using Linux/Unix off and on since 1999, but have been using it
and studying it exclusively this year.
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-12-18, 6:25 am |
| On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 03:26:42 GMT, "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:36:15 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
>> So if you a person who easily forgets what you did, why bother getting
>> certified in anything at all?
>
>
>Sure for a person with few certifications like yourself, I can see how it
>would be easy to keep track of every test you have done.
Hmmm...I have one certification, but also 7 years of post-secondary
education, with a degree and a diploma. Does the above comment apply
to those of us in such a situation as well? :-)
Tom
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-18, 9:25 am |
| You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
Microsoft 70-210
Microsoft 70-215
Microsoft 70-216
Microsoft 70-217
Microsoft 70-218
Microsoft 70-058
Microsoft 70-067
Microsoft 70-068
Microsoft 70-073
Citrix 1YO-220
Citrix 1YO-911
Citrix 1YO-921
Citrix 1YO-941
Citrix 1YO-951
Try again Corky!
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.18.01.29.14.767569@notmail.com...
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:36:15 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > So if you a person who easily forgets what you did, why bother getting
> > certified in anything at all?
>
>
> Sure for a person with few certifications like yourself, I can see how it
> would be easy to keep track of every test you have done.
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-18, 9:25 am |
| "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.18.01.33.19.402239@notmail.com...
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:44:46 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > Not only did he upgrade his NT MCSE to W2K, but he did it the long way.
>
> Something wrong with taking the way in which you learn the most?
For a person who thinks the MCSE certification is a waste of time, there is
something wrong with any way you take in which you learn, in regards to
obtaining your MCSE.
> Or are
> you one of those that are just after the paper and like putting letters
next
> to your name?
>
Do you think I got Citrix's highest certification because I thought it would
be fun to have the letters?! Good Lord! Citrix is a pain in the butt. I
studied and took the tests because I support numerous Citrix servers at work
and wanted to make sure I had the right knowledge.
>
> > He
> > could have passed the 70-240 and a couple other tests, instead of taking
> > 5 more beyond his NT tests. Of course he may have waited until the
> > 70-240 expired, thus it wasn't an option, which would mean that he
> > upgraded his MCSE to W2K fairly recently.
>
> Wrong got it in mid 2001.
I did say "may". Of course, the 70-240 was only available to a person once.
If you failed, you had to go the long route. But I won't assume...
>
> > So apparently this whole Linux thing is probably nothing more than an
> > epiphany to him. He has to share "the light" that is new to him, but all
> > of us have pretty much seen... and moved on from.
>
> Nope been using Linux/Unix off and on since 1999, but have been using it
> and studying it exclusively this year.
Well, that pretty much proves my point.... Linux newbie!
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
| |
|
| On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
How do you know I only have 12?
| |
|
| Lets stop this people, lets see a transcript of the exmas simple?
James
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
>
> How do you know I only have 12?
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-23, 9:24 am |
| Because you responded to Hugh Dunit's questioning or your claim of 15 tests
by saying "Opps only 12". You posted it less than a week ago. That would now
make 2 instances of reflecting your poor memory.
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
>
> How do you know I only have 12?
| |
|
| On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:18:39 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> Because you responded to Hugh Dunit's questioning or your claim of 15 tests
> by saying "Opps only 12". You posted it less than a week ago. That would now
> make 2 instances of reflecting your poor memory.
>
> --
> Rob Hammersmith
> MCSA, CCEA
>
>
> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>>
>> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
>>
>> How do you know I only have 12?
That is 12 MS tests, this does not inculed the CCNA, CNE5, CCNP, CNA4 and
CCA.
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-12-23, 7:24 pm |
| On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 23:59:12 GMT, "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:18:39 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
>> Because you responded to Hugh Dunit's questioning or your claim of 15 tests
>> by saying "Opps only 12". You posted it less than a week ago. That would now
>> make 2 instances of reflecting your poor memory.
>>
>> --
>> Rob Hammersmith
>> MCSA, CCEA
>>
>>
>> "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
>>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>>>
>>> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
>>>
>>> How do you know I only have 12?
>
>That is 12 MS tests, this does not inculed the CCNA, CNE5, CCNP, CNA4 and
>CCA.
>
Hmmm..."How do you know I only have 12?" has a ring of veracity to it.
Why would you let on you only have 12 if there were more?
Tom
| |
| Joe Smith 2002-12-24, 12:24 am |
| So with all the certs you have, just curoius, what kinda of work do you do?
Are you a network admin? Cisco admin? server admin with Novell, MS or Linux?
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.23.22.02.29.527097@notmail.com...
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:18:39 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > Because you responded to Hugh Dunit's questioning or your claim of 15
tests
> > by saying "Opps only 12". You posted it less than a week ago. That would
now
> > make 2 instances of reflecting your poor memory.
> >
> > --
> > Rob Hammersmith
> > MCSA, CCEA
> >
> >
> > "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> > newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
> >> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> >>
> >> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
> >>
> >> How do you know I only have 12?
>
> That is 12 MS tests, this does not inculed the CCNA, CNE5, CCNP, CNA4 and
> CCA.
>
>
| |
| Graham 2002-12-24, 9:24 am |
|
"John Halma" <jhalma@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZNKcnUpglZGELGegXTWcoA@co
mcast.com...
> I have to say I got my MCSE 2 years ago (NT4), and it definitely helped me
> land a job. I'm only doing tech support not making much money, but I got
my
> foot in the door. I also offerred my services to people that have a
buisness
> that would give me a reference, and some background to use on my resume.
> I did forget about 70% of the stuff I studied though. You'll only learn it
> by doing it.
>
> John
>
I got my MSCE almost two years ago to the day. Complete waste of time that
was. Give up looking for a job ages ago, didn't even get *one* reply, let
along an interview.
Waste of time and wished I hadn't bothered.
Graham
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-12-24, 10:25 am |
| You said that "M$ certs are a joke! You can pass all these exams without any
hands-on
experience or even ever installing anything."
Hugh Dunit asked "So how many of em did you pass with this 'method' troll?"
You replied "I am not a troll and have passed 15 of them with out that
method."
Hugh Dunit repsonded "I'm both and I've only done eleven MS exams so I'm
curious as to what the
other 4 you have done are."
To which you replied "Opps only 12."
From which I joined in with "So if you a person who easily forgets what you
did, why bother getting
certified in anything at all?"
To which you replied "Sure for a person with few certifications like
yourself, I can see how it
would be easy to keep track of every test you have done."
You questioned all my certs and how easy it is to remember the number of
tests from so few certs, so I listed all my tests. You were only questioned
on your MS certs. As a result, to answer your previous question of "How do
you know I only have 12?", the answer is because you said so.
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
Jeff <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.23.22.02.29.527097@notmail.com...
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:18:39 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
>
> > Because you responded to Hugh Dunit's questioning or your claim of 15
tests
> > by saying "Opps only 12". You posted it less than a week ago. That would
now
> > make 2 instances of reflecting your poor memory.
> >
> > --
> > Rob Hammersmith
> > MCSA, CCEA
> >
> >
> > "Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
> > newsan.2002.12.21.08.08.42.465801@notmail.com...
> >> On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:47:33 +0000, Rob Hammersmith wrote:
> >>
> >> > You can't keep track of 12, but I can keep track of 14:
> >>
> >> How do you know I only have 12?
>
> That is 12 MS tests, this does not inculed the CCNA, CNE5, CCNP, CNA4 and
> CCA.
>
>
| |
|
| Then why are you reading this newsgroup?
"Graham" <grahame9@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:au9snq$4ri$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "John Halma" <jhalma@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ZNKcnUpglZGELGegXTWcoA@co
mcast.com...
> > I have to say I got my MCSE 2 years ago (NT4), and it definitely helped
me
> > land a job. I'm only doing tech support not making much money, but I got
> my
> > foot in the door. I also offerred my services to people that have a
> buisness
> > that would give me a reference, and some background to use on my resume.
> > I did forget about 70% of the stuff I studied though. You'll only learn
it
> > by doing it.
> >
> > John
> >
>
> I got my MSCE almost two years ago to the day. Complete waste of time that
> was. Give up looking for a job ages ago, didn't even get *one* reply, let
> along an interview.
>
> Waste of time and wished I hadn't bothered.
>
> Graham
>
>
| |
| J. A. Logan 2003-01-14, 10:24 am |
| I have to agree. The surging influx of paper certs, and the dive in the
economy have caused IT to dry up. As for the certified people who also
have experience, the salaries are bottomed out due to bad reps applied
to the credentials due to the paper certs.
There should be a prerequisite of 1 to 2 years experience before
certification eligibility with "Engineer" and "Admin" Certs. like
MSCE/MCSA and CNE/CNA. The A+ and N+ certs should be for fresh new
entries into the field to show they have the base level knowledge.
I am certified NT4 with MCP+I, and quite frankly due to the amount of
debt MS has caused me since more employers are shying away from paying
or reimbursing for training, and the fact NO ONE is hiring; I see no
point in going to 2000, or .NET certification. Has anyone seen that
Server 2003 is now emerging, causing a new run of certifications that
will cost all of us more money if we wish to pursue them.
MS is strictly trying to make money with the certs. this is the other
way they make money. The only cert I see that is worth going for is
Linux now. More companies are starting to move the way of free
customizable source code. Plus the FREE office suite that comes with the
OS will open MS docs, spread sheets, etc. Just imagine how pleased the
bosses would be if you saved them $10,000 or more a year with licensing
due to MS' constantly changing products where the new version is out
before your users even get the one that was approved for purchase.
Plus look at the supposed "Benefits" of MS certs, like have to PAY for
technet, which should be free to the techs that paid and passed MS exams.
J A Logan MCSE, MCP+I
Sully wrote:
>Then why are you reading this newsgroup?
>
>
>"Graham" <grahame9@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:au9snq$4ri$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>
>>"John Halma" <jhalma@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:ZNKcnUpglZGELGegXTWcoA@co
mcast.com...
>>
>>
>>>I have to say I got my MCSE 2 years ago (NT4), and it definitely helped
>>>
>>>
>me
>
>
>>>land a job. I'm only doing tech support not making much money, but I got
>>>
>>>
>>my
>>
>>
>>>foot in the door. I also offerred my services to people that have a
>>>
>>>
>>buisness
>>
>>
>>>that would give me a reference, and some background to use on my resume.
>>>I did forget about 70% of the stuff I studied though. You'll only learn
>>>
>>>
>it
>
>
>>>by doing it.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I got my MSCE almost two years ago to the day. Complete waste of time that
>>was. Give up looking for a job ages ago, didn't even get *one* reply, let
>>along an interview.
>>
>>Waste of time and wished I hadn't bothered.
>>
>>Graham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| mike foot 2003-01-18, 5:24 am |
| Hi
I am MCSE + Novell
I think dont go much on Linux
as for them taking over the market ?
then if that is the case ?
they would be charging the same or more than ms for licences
after all somthin free suddenly bcomes expensive especially when is in
demand ?
stick to MCSE track
learn Linux as an extra Learning curve in the game
we are using multi platform networks and it pays to know a bit about
everything
Mike
"Jeff" <in2falling@notmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2002.12.14.01.48.09.486559@notmail.com...
> Do you guys realize that there are many more MCSEs out there than there
> are jobs for MCSEs! Do you realize that M$ will be losing massive amounts
> of market share over the next few years to Linux, and talent for Linux
> will be much more in demand than for M$. I kind of see it as the big M$
> boom back in the mid 90 and late 90s. Linux jobs will be like this in a
> few years or less and you will not be able to buy a job doing M$ work.
> Anyone one thinking about starting your MCSE track please think twice
> before going down this road.
|
|
|
|
|