alt.certification.mcse - Networks+ and certification processing time

Author

Networks+ and certification processing time

Barry Watzman

2002-09-27, 4:29 pm

Well, a couple of things .....

First, I received my A+ certificate today. I only took the test last
Monday (16th), so that's 11 days, if anyone else is wondering how long
it takes from exam to receipt of certificate.

By the way, if you join CompTIA as an individual member ($52), you get a
"one-forth off" voucher for any future exam. I didn't know that, but if
you are going to do A+ and then Network+ or Server+ in quick succession,
it's worth keeping in mind. However a good discount voucher (like the
ones that I got from www.ExamVouchers.com) is still probably a
better deal if you don't want the membership for some other reason (if
you buy one from them, please give my name and E-Mail address as a
referral, they give $5 referral credits)(Barry Watzman, Watzman@neo.rr.com).

Second, I took and passed the Network+ exam today, after 4 days of
studying for it (started on Monday), but, as with the A+ exam, I've been
doing this for 30 years (ok, not that long for Networks ....), and I
knew a lot of the material.

Although I got a high score on the exam (833 out of, for this exam, a
perfect score of 900), I thought it was a VERY difficult exam. There
was a LOT of stuff that I had not studied, indeed some that I'd never
seen before. I remember thinking on a few questions (just a few) that
"I don't understand even the question any more than would Joe six-pack
from off the street". I had no idea how I was doing, and I was not at
all confident that I'd even passed. As one example, there were
questions on sub-protocols within APPLE localtalk networks that I'd
simply never encountered. I thought it was a very difficult exam, not
withstanding my high score (which frankly surprised me). I don't know
what to tell anyone preparing for it, but I used the Mike Meyers books
(both of them, complete and Passport), and I'm not confident that, BY
THEMSELVES, they would be enough for someone without a fair amount of
experience and knowledge from other sources.

I did find that there were some questions which, if I "took a deep
breath and a step back", I could solve by using logic relative to the
exam presentation with no knowledge of the subject matter. Take your
time on the test, and see if there is logic unrelated to the subject
matter that will help you answer the question. This is a "test taking
skill" rather than an networking skill, but it definitely comes in
useful. I won't be more specific as I don't want to discuss specific
questions in detail.

Anyway, that's my A+/Network+ story, now I'm on to at least a few MS tests.

Two questions on the MS tests for MCSA/MCSE:

1. Do you have to register with MS in any way to enter the "MS
Certification Program" before you begin taking the MS tests ?
[obviously, I'm talking about registration above and beyond simply
registering with VUE or Prometrics for the exams].

2. I had prepared for, but never took, the old MS "Network Essentials"
exam about 3 years ago. That exam no longer exists, but given that I
just took the Network+ test, and had prepared for that discontinued MS
exam, is the new MCSA test 70-218 (Managing a Windows 2000 Network) by
any chance similar to the old "Network Essentials" exam, and should I
just take that one next as it's most similar to the test that I just
finished studying for ?

Thanks,
Barry Watzman

70-228

2002-09-27, 4:29 pm

Barry Watzman wrote:
> 1. Do you have to register with MS in any way to enter the "MS
> Certification Program" before you begin taking the MS tests ?
> [obviously, I'm talking about registration above and beyond simply
> registering with VUE or Prometrics for the exams].

No. Just book the exam. If you pass then M$ will email you and send you your
id number. It's easier than CompTIA...

> 2. I had prepared for, but never took, the old MS "Network
> Essentials" exam about 3 years ago. That exam no longer exists, but
> given that I just took the Network+ test, and had prepared for that
> discontinued MS exam, is the new MCSA test 70-218 (Managing a Windows
> 2000 Network) by any chance similar to the old "Network Essentials"
> exam, and should I just take that one next as it's most similar to
> the test that I just finished studying for ?

No. Nothing like it. The 218 is a mixture of material from 216 and 217 and
bears little relationship to the old Network Essentials or Network+.

If I were you I would do both the pro test (either 210 for 2000 or 270 for
XP) and the server test (215). Those are somewhat of a minimum required
knowledge to continue with the other exams like 216, 217, 218 etc.

Good luck.

DanS

2002-09-27, 4:29 pm

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:22:55 GMT, Barry Watzman <Watzman@neo.rr.com>
wrote:

>Second, I took and passed the Network+ exam today, after 4 days of
>studying for it (started on Monday), but, as with the A+ exam, I've been
>doing this for 30 years (ok, not that long for Networks ....), and I
>knew a lot of the material.

Yes, I studied it for 2 weeks after getting A+ last feb. (the older
non-adaptive version). Scored 852, passing was 852...after this I
decided to take more time studying tests and not waste $100+ and 2+
hours of time in botched attempts

Took almost 5 months to study
CCNA material and was rewarded with an easy test and 923 / 1000.

>1. Do you have to register with MS in any way to enter the "MS
>Certification Program" before you begin taking the MS tests ?
>[obviously, I'm talking about registration above and beyond simply
>registering with VUE or Prometrics for the exams].

No, you get a candidate ID # on the printout after taking (and
passing) the first test. M$ will send you all the goodies by mail 4-6
weeks later (I passed 70-210 last week, just got an email response
from M$ yesterday :P And I will probably pass 70-215 before this
70-210 crap comes in the snail-mail, heheh)

>exam, is the new MCSA test 70-218 (Managing a Windows 2000 Network) by
>any chance similar to the old "Network Essentials" exam, and should I
>just take that one next as it's most similar to the test that I just
>finished studying for ?

If you want an MCSE, skip the 70-218, it's not worth the financial
investment. I am going to bypass it and simply take something else,
perhaps an extra design exam, Exchange or SQL admin.

If you get MCSE and an employer demands an MCSA, tell them you'll get
back to them 2 days later. Schedule 70-218 for tomorrow, then come
back an MCSA

Dan

DanS

2002-09-27, 5:29 pm

Dan

Barry Watzman

2002-09-27, 5:29 pm

Skipping 70-218 doesn't make sense, since IT counts towards MCSE and
it's reportedly a relatively easy test. And if you get 70-218, then I
think that you'd have the MCSA "automatically" if you had otherwise
obtained an MCSE. In other words, if you plan it this way, MCSA can be
a perfect subset of MCSE (meaning that you can get both with NO extra
tests). Isn't that correct ?

DanS wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:22:55 GMT, Barry Watzman <Watzman@neo.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Second, I took and passed the Network+ exam today, after 4 days of
>>studying for it (started on Monday), but, as with the A+ exam, I've been
>>doing this for 30 years (ok, not that long for Networks ....), and I
>>knew a lot of the material.
>
>
> Yes, I studied it for 2 weeks after getting A+ last feb. (the older
> non-adaptive version). Scored 852, passing was 852...after this I
> decided to take more time studying tests and not waste $100+ and 2+
> hours of time in botched attempts

Took almost 5 months to study
> CCNA material and was rewarded with an easy test and 923 / 1000.
>
>
>
>>1. Do you have to register with MS in any way to enter the "MS
>>Certification Program" before you begin taking the MS tests ?
>>[obviously, I'm talking about registration above and beyond simply
>>registering with VUE or Prometrics for the exams].
>
>
> No, you get a candidate ID # on the printout after taking (and
> passing) the first test. M$ will send you all the goodies by mail 4-6
> weeks later (I passed 70-210 last week, just got an email response
> from M$ yesterday :P And I will probably pass 70-215 before this
> 70-210 crap comes in the snail-mail, heheh)
>
>
>>exam, is the new MCSA test 70-218 (Managing a Windows 2000 Network) by
>>any chance similar to the old "Network Essentials" exam, and should I
>>just take that one next as it's most similar to the test that I just
>>finished studying for ?
>
>
> If you want an MCSE, skip the 70-218, it's not worth the financial
> investment. I am going to bypass it and simply take something else,
> perhaps an extra design exam, Exchange or SQL admin.
>
> If you get MCSE and an employer demands an MCSA, tell them you'll get
> back to them 2 days later. Schedule 70-218 for tomorrow, then come
> back an MCSA

>
> Dan
>

70-228

2002-09-28, 3:29 am

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Skipping 70-218 doesn't make sense, since IT counts towards MCSE and
> it's reportedly a relatively easy test. And if you get 70-218, then I
> think that you'd have the MCSA "automatically" if you had otherwise
> obtained an MCSE. In other words, if you plan it this way, MCSA can
> be a perfect subset of MCSE (meaning that you can get both with NO
> extra tests). Isn't that correct ?

That's all true but you lessen the value of your MCSE doing this. You
effectively drop a hard exam like Exchange, SQL, ISA etc. for a completely
trivial one. Unless you are desperate to have that extra vowel in your
collection I would suggest taking something else instead and showing
employers that you're not one for taking the easy way when it comes to
learning.

J Lee

2002-09-28, 3:29 am

It would also depend on what you do for a living. If you don't work
with Exchange, SQL, ISA and you're just a networking guy you might
benefit. After all, the test is designed to test your networking
administration ability (rather then setup and design). It shouldn't be
automatically seen as the red-headed step-child of the MCSE. So if you
provide network services as your primary duty an MCSA (and thus the
218) are a good choice. Of course, if you don't you should go with
whatever gives you a kick in areas you work in or want to work in. I
personally grabbed an MCDBA on the way to the MCSE since I think it's
becoming hot. I did the opposite of what some do and took the hard way
by doing the MCSE, MCSA, and MCDBA in eight tests. They all serve a
different need depending on what job I apply for next.

And I'm praying that going for all three didn't weaken my MCSE! Can
you imagine the anger in the interviewers face when he sees all my
certs? He'd throw me out of his office for being so diligent.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:26:41 GMT, "70-228" <ToldePD@ariz.ka> wrote:

>Barry Watzman wrote:
>> Skipping 70-218 doesn't make sense, since IT counts towards MCSE and
>> it's reportedly a relatively easy test. And if you get 70-218, then I
>> think that you'd have the MCSA "automatically" if you had otherwise
>> obtained an MCSE. In other words, if you plan it this way, MCSA can
>> be a perfect subset of MCSE (meaning that you can get both with NO
>> extra tests). Isn't that correct ?
>
>That's all true but you lessen the value of your MCSE doing this. You
>effectively drop a hard exam like Exchange, SQL, ISA etc. for a completely
>trivial one. Unless you are desperate to have that extra vowel in your
>collection I would suggest taking something else instead and showing
>employers that you're not one for taking the easy way when it comes to
>learning.
>

70-228

2002-09-28, 4:29 am

J Lee

2002-09-28, 4:29 am

70-228

2002-09-28, 6:29 am

J Lee wrote:
> It would also depend on what you do for a living. If you don't work
> with Exchange, SQL, ISA and you're just a networking guy you might
> benefit. After all, the test is designed to test your networking
> administration ability (rather then setup and design). It shouldn't be
> automatically seen as the red-headed step-child of the MCSE. So if you

The test and training material is just a subsection of 216 and 217. The darn
Sybex book lifts directly out of the other two books. It's a freebie exam
after those 2 (and yes I have been through the material). Besides there is
something like 20+ electives to choose from which actually require knowledge
outside that of the core 4 exams and I'm sure most would be able to spot one
that they could do instead.

> And I'm praying that going for all three didn't weaken my MCSE! Can
> you imagine the anger in the interviewers face when he sees all my
> certs? He'd throw me out of his office for being so diligent.

If someone comes to me with an MCSA/MCSE with 6 exams + 218 I would rate
their certs as worth less than an MCSE with 6 exams + a decent elective. The
MCSA is a throw-away cert once you have an MCSE.

70-228

2002-09-28, 7:29 am

Barry Watzman

2002-09-28, 9:29 am

You guys don't fully appreciate the breadth of reasons for which people
get these credentials. I'm a PRODUCT MANAGER for a computer
manufacturer, half of my job is in what you might call marketing. But I
do have a BSEE degree, 30 years of experience (including years of both
hardware engineering and software engineering), I have patents on
computer hardware and copyrights on computer software and I do know the
technology. Still, my reasons for getting these credentials are far
different than yours. The credentials strengthen my credibility when
(as often happens) I try to push engineering in a particular direction
(but from OUTSIDE of the engineering organization, and with no actual
"authority" to mandate much of anything). It's a very different
motivation than that of someone whose full-time job is program the
routers and keep the network running on a day-to-day basis.

And such "peripheral motivations" for getting certified are probably
more common than you realize.

J Lee wrote:
> It would also depend on what you do for a living. If you don't work
> with Exchange, SQL, ISA and you're just a networking guy you might
> benefit. After all, the test is designed to test your networking
> administration ability (rather then setup and design). It shouldn't be
> automatically seen as the red-headed step-child of the MCSE. So if you
> provide network services as your primary duty an MCSA (and thus the
> 218) are a good choice. Of course, if you don't you should go with
> whatever gives you a kick in areas you work in or want to work in. I
> personally grabbed an MCDBA on the way to the MCSE since I think it's
> becoming hot. I did the opposite of what some do and took the hard way
> by doing the MCSE, MCSA, and MCDBA in eight tests. They all serve a
> different need depending on what job I apply for next.
>
> And I'm praying that going for all three didn't weaken my MCSE! Can
> you imagine the anger in the interviewers face when he sees all my
> certs? He'd throw me out of his office for being so diligent.
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:26:41 GMT, "70-228" <ToldePD@ariz.ka> wrote:
>
>
>>Barry Watzman wrote:
>>
>>>Skipping 70-218 doesn't make sense, since IT counts towards MCSE and
>>>it's reportedly a relatively easy test. And if you get 70-218, then I
>>>think that you'd have the MCSA "automatically" if you had otherwise
>>>obtained an MCSE. In other words, if you plan it this way, MCSA can
>>>be a perfect subset of MCSE (meaning that you can get both with NO
>>>extra tests). Isn't that correct ?
>>
>>That's all true but you lessen the value of your MCSE doing this. You
>>effectively drop a hard exam like Exchange, SQL, ISA etc. for a completely
>>trivial one. Unless you are desperate to have that extra vowel in your
>>collection I would suggest taking something else instead and showing
>>employers that you're not one for taking the easy way when it comes to
>>learning.
>>
>
>

Barry Watzman

2002-09-28, 10:29 am

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