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Home > Archive > alt.certification.mcse > October 2002 > Minimum MCSE pay?
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| Robert 2002-10-26, 11:25 pm |
| I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I also
want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me for aiming
low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but inexperienced MCSE
is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the U.S.; I know they vary by
location within the U.S. but any input would be appreciated.
I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even ~ $10
per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of job. I'm asking
about the lowest wage range for any job that would actually put my newly
learned skill set to use. One last assumption is that while I lack
experience I actually learned the material well and I am not some brain
dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
Robert
| |
| Scoob 2002-10-27, 12:24 am |
| Robert wrote:
> I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I
> also want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me
> for aiming low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but
> inexperienced MCSE is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the
> U.S.; I know they vary by location within the U.S. but any input
> would be appreciated.
>
> I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even
> ~ $10 per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of
> job. I'm asking about the lowest wage range for any job that would
> actually put my newly learned skill set to use. One last assumption
> is that while I lack experience I actually learned the material well
> and I am not some brain dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
>
> Robert
In inexperienced MCSE is completely worthless in the current job market.
Considering that approximately 2 billion people in the world are MCSE
certified right now (Not including dogs and cats that have their MCSE)...
And many of those MCSEs have lots of experience and are still out of work,
and inexperienced MCSE can look forward to a future career in the janitorial
services business.
Good luck!
| |
| Rhenier Labuschagne 2002-10-27, 5:24 am |
| True.
There is currently 487 695 MCSE's
"Scoob" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:moKu9.21475$Zy4.1924712@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Robert wrote:
> > I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I
> > also want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me
> > for aiming low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but
> > inexperienced MCSE is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the
> > U.S.; I know they vary by location within the U.S. but any input
> > would be appreciated.
> >
> > I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even
> > ~ $10 per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of
> > job. I'm asking about the lowest wage range for any job that would
> > actually put my newly learned skill set to use. One last assumption
> > is that while I lack experience I actually learned the material well
> > and I am not some brain dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
> >
> > Robert
>
> In inexperienced MCSE is completely worthless in the current job market.
>
> Considering that approximately 2 billion people in the world are MCSE
> certified right now (Not including dogs and cats that have their MCSE)...
> And many of those MCSEs have lots of experience and are still out of work,
> and inexperienced MCSE can look forward to a future career in the
janitorial
> services business.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
| |
| Robert 2002-10-27, 9:24 am |
| Scoob <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I
>> also want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me
>> for aiming low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but
>> inexperienced MCSE is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the
>> U.S.; I know they vary by location within the U.S. but any input
>> would be appreciated.
>>
>> I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even
>> ~ $10 per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of
>> job. I'm asking about the lowest wage range for any job that would
>> actually put my newly learned skill set to use. One last assumption
>> is that while I lack experience I actually learned the material well
>> and I am not some brain dumper or barely capable of passing the
>> tests.
>>
>> Robert
>
> In inexperienced MCSE is completely worthless in the current job
> market.
I know that experienced people are sometimes competing for entry level jobs,
and many experienced people are out of work entirely. But as stated, my
question assumed that I would find meaningful employment. Not to mention,
the economy won't stay in the toilet forever.
Robert
| |
|
| Rhenier Labuschagne wrote:
> True.
>
> There is currently 487 695 MCSE's
Yes, I know... My "2 billion" number was a deliberate exaggeration.
Almost 500,000 MCSEs in the world is a lot of MCSEs... I bet there's more
MCSEs in the world than people who are A+ certified, and even A+ certified
people are everywhere nowadays.
If someone with little or no work experience thinks they can get their MCSE
certification and then find a job, they'll come to the harsh realization
that that's not the case when they've got their MCSE, still no IT
experience, and are working as a salesmen at the local Future Shop or Best
Buy. That's about as far as an MCSE with no work experience is going to go
in the current job market.
| |
| Jeff Woods 2002-10-27, 11:24 am |
| In article <0CJu9.1514987$w17.149937@post-02.news.easynews.com>,
robert@robert.invalid says...
> I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I also
> want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me for aiming
> low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but inexperienced MCSE
> is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the U.S.; I know they vary by
> location within the U.S. but any input would be appreciated.
$5.35 per hour. $5.85 or more in some other states.
> I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even ~ $10
> per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of job.
Sorry, Best Buy doesn't pay that well.
> I'm asking
> about the lowest wage range for any job that would actually put my newly
> learned skill set to use.
In all seriousness, a cert without commensurate experience is trult only
worth about $9 per hour, until you've proven yourself. There's an awful
lot of competition out there for not many jobs. Microsoft alone gets
45,000 resumes a month.
> One last assumption is that while I lack
> experience I actually learned the material well and I am not some brain
> dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
The problem is, so have a few hundred thousand other people looking for
work, and many of them have ten or more years of experience in the
field.
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-10-27, 1:24 pm |
| On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:17:50 -0500, "Scoob" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>Rhenier Labuschagne wrote:
>> True.
>>
>> There is currently 487 695 MCSE's
>
>Yes, I know... My "2 billion" number was a deliberate exaggeration.
>
>Almost 500,000 MCSEs in the world is a lot of MCSEs... I bet there's more
>MCSEs in the world than people who are A+ certified, and even A+ certified
>people are everywhere nowadays.
>
>If someone with little or no work experience thinks they can get their MCSE
>certification and then find a job, they'll come to the harsh realization
>that that's not the case when they've got their MCSE, still no IT
>experience, and are working as a salesmen at the local Future Shop or Best
>Buy. That's about as far as an MCSE with no work experience is going to go
>in the current job market.
>
I wonder how many MD's there are in the world?
Tom
| |
|
| Tom MacIntyre wrote:
> I wonder how many MD's there are in the world?
>
> Tom
I wonder what that comment has to do with this discussion?
Scoob
| |
| Barry Watzman 2002-10-27, 9:25 pm |
| I've seen ads seeking an MCSE and offering salaries of $25-$35k, which I
thought was a joke (sometimes it's not just the employees who have
absurd expectations). But your question is an interesting one and it
will be interesting to see the response.
Robert wrote:
> I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I also
> want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me for aiming
> low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but inexperienced MCSE
> is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the U.S.; I know they vary by
> location within the U.S. but any input would be appreciated.
>
> I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even ~ $10
> per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of job. I'm asking
> about the lowest wage range for any job that would actually put my newly
> learned skill set to use. One last assumption is that while I lack
> experience I actually learned the material well and I am not some brain
> dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
| |
| Barry Watzman 2002-10-27, 9:25 pm |
| Re: "That's about as far as an MCSE with no work experience is going to
go in the current job market."
It's not quite that simple. A lot depends on a whole lot of other
factors, including personality, drive, ambition, attitude and, of
course, "luck" and "who you know". But I don't think that your blanket
statement ("working as a salesmen at the local Future Shop or Best Buy
..... [is] about as far as an MCSE with no work experience is going to go
in the current job market") is necessarily correct. How far a given
person will go (MCSE or not) depends on a ton of factors, many of them
uncontrollable.
Scoob wrote:
> Rhenier Labuschagne wrote:
>
>>True.
>>
>>There is currently 487 695 MCSE's
>
>
> Yes, I know... My "2 billion" number was a deliberate exaggeration.
>
> Almost 500,000 MCSEs in the world is a lot of MCSEs... I bet there's more
> MCSEs in the world than people who are A+ certified, and even A+ certified
> people are everywhere nowadays.
>
> If someone with little or no work experience thinks they can get their MCSE
> certification and then find a job, they'll come to the harsh realization
> that that's not the case when they've got their MCSE, still no IT
> experience, and are working as a salesmen at the local Future Shop or Best
> Buy. That's about as far as an MCSE with no work experience is going to go
> in the current job market.
>
>
| |
| 127.0.0.0 2002-10-27, 9:25 pm |
|
"Tom MacIntyre" <tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ufhoruo2c4nrkhktfdeqql621
4rcc8i0d9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:17:50 -0500, "Scoob" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder how many MD's there are in the world?
>
> Tom
Medical Doctors? <--- self employed
or Microsoft Developers? <--- still a techie
| |
| Jent F. Sawyer II 2002-10-28, 2:24 am |
| Roughly $32k a year-try a temp service first and then let the company hire
you. Speaking of brian dead- I noticed most of the replies you got are out
to lunck. The cert is worth a BS in Computer Science. I would think you
should also geet something in security as well, in addition to being a tech
to start out.
"Robert" <robert@robert.invalid> wrote in message
news:0CJu9.1514987$w17.149937@post-02.news.easynews.com...
> I'm considering taking on the MCSE track, and while I'm optimistic I also
> want to be prepared for the worst. So I hope you'll pardon me for aiming
> low, but I am wondering what is the least an employed but inexperienced
MCSE
> is likely to make? I'm talking about wages in the U.S.; I know they vary
by
> location within the U.S. but any input would be appreciated.
>
> I understand that the least is zero (if I don't land any job) or even ~
$10
> per hour if I accept a Help Desk or Best Buy retail type of job. I'm
asking
> about the lowest wage range for any job that would actually put my newly
> learned skill set to use. One last assumption is that while I lack
> experience I actually learned the material well and I am not some brain
> dumper or barely capable of passing the tests.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-10-28, 4:24 am |
| On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:27:59 -0500, "Scoob" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>Tom MacIntyre wrote:
>> I wonder how many MD's there are in the world?
>>
>> Tom
>
>I wonder what that comment has to do with this discussion?
>
>Scoob
>
Had you left the rest of the message to which I replied it would be
quite abvious what is has to do with the discussion.
Tom
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-10-28, 9:25 am |
| Everyone at some point in their lifetime is going to need the services of an
MD (unless it is against their religion). However, very few people in their
lifetime are going to need the services of an MCSE. Not to mention,
obtaining the degree of doctor is quite more significant than passing a few
tests and having Microsoft wave a magic wand over your head and say
"POOF!... You're an engineer!" A better comparison would be the amount of
doctors of CIS or MIS compared to the amount of doctors in the medical
field.
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCP, CCEA
"Tom MacIntyre" <tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vs1qru0gpm0jrm3pgprthiabt
k6skacukh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:27:59 -0500, "Scoob" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >Tom MacIntyre wrote:
> >> I wonder how many MD's there are in the world?
> >>
> >> Tom
> >
> >I wonder what that comment has to do with this discussion?
> >
> >Scoob
> >
>
> Had you left the rest of the message to which I replied it would be
> quite abvious what is has to do with the discussion.
>
> Tom
| |
| Rob Hammersmith 2002-10-28, 9:25 am |
| "Jent F. Sawyer II" <j.sawyer2@att.net> wrote in message
news:VR5v9.9962$VJ5.588028@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The cert is worth a BS in Computer Science.
Care to expand on that?
--
Rob Hammersmith
MCP, CCEA
| |
| pseudocyber 2002-10-28, 10:50 am |
| IMHO, MCSE is a BASIC certification - not an Advanced Certification.
If one wants to get into being a M$ Server Admin - the MCSE is the FIRST "real" vendor specific cert worth ANYTHING. As such, it's the most basic that is worth anything in that line of work. After that, there is so much more to learn - Advanced Server, Data Center, SQL, Exchange, Active Directory Design, not to mention all the .NET certs that will be coming out soon.
The M$ professional is in a losing battle against M$ - by the time someone can study and pass the exams to get the "Engineer" cert, M$ comes out with a new OS starting the learning curve and migration party all over again. That's where the $$$ come in in the M$ name ... 
Ps. An MCSE, with no other certs or experience, is really a babe in the woods. They only know the M$ way and not the "industry standard way" - which M$ attempts to bastardize by adding "extensions" to until they truly have a proprietary scheme - at which point one has to fork over the $$$ to pay for licensing! |
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