alt.os.linux - Linux/XP Dual Boot & Dual HDs

Author

Linux/XP Dual Boot & Dual HDs

EmptyMM

2002-10-04, 2:25 am

Sorry for the newbie question but I'm looking to become a Linux convert so
I'm hoping I won't get beat up too bad..

I have a Compaq with an 80Gig HD running WinXP Home and just purchased a
second 80Gig HD.. What I would like to do is be able to create a dual boot
with Linux/XP and designate the second drive as a shared drive. To add to
the fun. I'd like to be able to do this without having to wipe the current
XP installation. Currently the HD has C & D partitions, with C designated
for the OS and files and D designated with the XP backup "restore" files.
So, the questions I have:

1. Do I need to install both OS on the master HD to be able to dual boot?
If so, then is it possible to create 3 partitions on this drive (XP/XP
Backup/Linux) and do I need to have the partitions in a particular order?

2. Do I need to install separate partitions on the secondary HD as well to
be able to backup info for each OS or can I just format it in one format (ie
NTFS) and access it with either OS?

I did some searching on Google regarding these and have found good info on
each issue separately but want to confirm for this particular situation..

TIA!

Malke

2002-10-04, 8:25 am

EmptyMM wrote:

> Sorry for the newbie question but I'm looking to become a Linux
> convert so I'm hoping I won't get beat up too bad..
>
> I have a Compaq with an 80Gig HD running WinXP Home and just purchased
> a
> second 80Gig HD.. What I would like to do is be able to create a dual
> boot
> with Linux/XP and designate the second drive as a shared drive. To
> add to the fun. I'd like to be able to do this without having to wipe
> the current
> XP installation. Currently the HD has C & D partitions, with C
> designated for the OS and files and D designated with the XP backup
> "restore" files. So, the questions I have:
>
> 1. Do I need to install both OS on the master HD to be able to dual
> boot? If so, then is it possible to create 3 partitions on this drive
> (XP/XP Backup/Linux) and do I need to have the partitions in a
> particular order?
>
> 2. Do I need to install separate partitions on the secondary HD as
> well to be able to backup info for each OS or can I just format it in
> one format (ie NTFS) and access it with either OS?

No, just install Linux (I use SuSE 8.0 dual booted with XP Pro) on the
second hard drive. I think it's easiest to let Linux handle the
bootloader, so install LILO (Linux bootloader) into the mbr. Then,
when you start your box, LILO will begin and give you a choice of OS's.
If you choose XP, you'll then get XP's bootloader showing the usual XP,
Recovery, Safe Mode, etc. The only trick is to do the Linux
installation partioning in Expert Mode so as to specify what hard drive
to use. I find it very useful to have the main XP installation as
NTFS, a separate partition or hard drive as FAT32, and then Linux on
its own drive. Linux can see and write to FAT32, but NTFS is read-only
for Linux at this time. This way you can use the FAT32 partition (or
drive) for backup for both systems.

HTH,

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
remove 3's to reply

Jon Portnoy

2002-10-04, 11:25 am

In article <cU9n9.4481$QX3.938@news2.central.cox.net>, EmptyMM wrote:
> Sorry for the newbie question but I'm looking to become a Linux convert so
> I'm hoping I won't get beat up too bad..
>
> I have a Compaq with an 80Gig HD running WinXP Home and just purchased a
> second 80Gig HD.. What I would like to do is be able to create a dual boot
> with Linux/XP and designate the second drive as a shared drive. To add to
> the fun. I'd like to be able to do this without having to wipe the current
> XP installation. Currently the HD has C & D partitions, with C designated
> for the OS and files and D designated with the XP backup "restore" files.
> So, the questions I have:
>
> 1. Do I need to install both OS on the master HD to be able to dual boot?
> If so, then is it possible to create 3 partitions on this drive (XP/XP
> Backup/Linux) and do I need to have the partitions in a particular order?

No, you can install whereever you want.
Yes, you can use a non-destructive partitioning tool (such as Partition
Magic) to shrink existing partitions and create a new one.
No, order doesn't really matter.

>
> 2. Do I need to install separate partitions on the secondary HD as well to
> be able to backup info for each OS or can I just format it in one format (ie
> NTFS) and access it with either OS?
>

Separate partitions is a much better idea (e.g. one Windows one as FAT32
and one Linux one as ext3), especially considering Linux can't safely
write to NTFS partitions yet and (last I checked) most distributions
don't have NTFS read enabled in the default kernels, either.
FAT32 is considered safe for reading and writing in Linux, but for the
sake of cleanliness you really ought to have separate backup partitions...

--
Jon Portnoy

Clive Dove

2002-10-04, 11:25 am

EmptyMM wrote:

> Sorry for the newbie question but I'm looking to become a Linux convert so
> I'm hoping I won't get beat up too bad..
>
> I have a Compaq with an 80Gig HD running WinXP Home and just purchased a
> second 80Gig HD.. What I would like to do is be able to create a dual
> boot
> with Linux/XP and designate the second drive as a shared drive. To add to
> the fun. I'd like to be able to do this without having to wipe the current
> XP installation. Currently the HD has C & D partitions, with C designated
> for the OS and files and D designated with the XP backup "restore" files.
> So, the questions I have:
>
> 1. Do I need to install both OS on the master HD to be able to dual boot?
> If so, then is it possible to create 3 partitions on this drive (XP/XP
> Backup/Linux) and do I need to have the partitions in a particular order?
>
> 2. Do I need to install separate partitions on the secondary HD as well to
> be able to backup info for each OS or can I just format it in one format
> (ie NTFS) and access it with either OS?
>
> I did some searching on Google regarding these and have found good info on
> each issue separately but want to confirm for this particular situation..
>
> TIA!

First, and most important, leave first hard drive alone except for the MBR,
about which, more later.

From your description, it looks like you have a recently purchased Compaq
with Windows XP pre-installed. In such a system you don't have a full
operating system on the cdrom disk, nor will it be on the restore disk if
you buy it.
That means that if you should ever have to recover from a crash of the XP
system the disks will assume that the drive is in the same configuration as
it was when it left the factory. If you get a restore disk and use it to
restore the factory, it will over-write your drive to put it back into its
original state and thereby wipe out any changes that you have made to your
partitioning. (The restore will also replace your MBR with the original
one, but that will not be a problem.)
Second. linux installers are not yet able to write to the type of NTFS
partition used by XP nor are they able to non-destructively shrink such a
partition. I am told that there are third-party patition managers that can
non-destructively shrink such a partition, but you still have the concern
about a possible future need to restore your XP system.

So you were quite right to put in a second hard drive.

Linux is capable of booting from any partition, primary or extended and in
either the primary master or primary slave drive. Whether it can boot to a
secondary master or secondary slave is another issue and that depends on
the capability of the bios, not any limit of linux.

So, install linux in the second drive. You will need at least a root
partition and a swap partition. The swap can be twice the size of the ram,
but if your ram is over 256 meg, reduce it to be equal to the ram to a
maximum of 512 meg.
You can install linux in a root partition holding the entire tree, but the
default linux installer (Certainly Mandrake's) will probably separate the
/home tree from the root and put it into a separate and larger partition.
There are different philosophies of partitioning and the argument can get
arcane, so my suggestion is to accept your distro's default partitioning.

I would, hovever, suggest that you put a small vfat partition on the second
drive. Make it about 1/2 gig. As both operating systems can access that
filesystem, it will be your file exchange. If you make it a primary, it
will become D: and your former D: will become E: so put it into an extended
partition in order to keep D: as D:
Linux can accept a boot from a floppy disk or from a jump from another
system's boot manager or from a third party boot manager or from the Master
Boot Record (MBR).
The simplest is to put the linux loader (lilo) into the MBR where it acts as
a boot manager to enable you to select from among the various operating
systems aboard.
Having lilo in the MBR will have no effect on your XP system except that it
is accessed through the linux boot menu.
The XP MBR can be restored at any time should you want to go back to an XP
only system or should you have to re-install XP (a windows install wants
the MBR for windows). The MBR is the first 512 bytes in the primary master
drive and linux will save that when it installs lilo. The first 446 bytes
will taken over by lilo and the remainder is the partition table which will
remain. To restore it, linux will on the command "lilo -u, copy back the
first 446 bytes. Also XP will restore its possession of the MBR. The old
command was fdisk /mbr but I think the new one is fixboot or fixmbr.
If you use Mandrake, the system will install almost automatically with you
answering a few questions and it will automatically (unless you tell it
different) identify the presence of another operating system and set up the
multi-boot. Other current distros are no doubht the same.

Bit Twister

2002-10-04, 5:25 pm

On 4 Oct 2002 15:40:10 GMT, Jon Portnoy wrote:
>
> Separate partitions is a much better idea (e.g. one Windows one as FAT32
> and one Linux one as ext3), especially considering Linux can't safely
> write to NTFS partitions yet and (last I checked) most distributions
> don't have NTFS read enabled in the default kernels, either.

FYI:
Mandrake 9.0 ships with READ NTFS out of the box by non root users.

EmptyMM

2002-10-04, 8:25 pm

"Clive Dove" <chdove@rogers.com> wrote in message
news

djn9.137530$q41.73673@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> EmptyMM wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the newbie question but I'm looking to become a Linux convert
so
> > I'm hoping I won't get beat up too bad..
> >
> > I have a Compaq with an 80Gig HD running WinXP Home and just purchased a
> > second 80Gig HD.. What I would like to do is be able to create a dual
> > boot
> > with Linux/XP and designate the second drive as a shared drive. To add
to
> > the fun. I'd like to be able to do this without having to wipe the
current
> > XP installation. Currently the HD has C & D partitions, with C
designated
> > for the OS and files and D designated with the XP backup "restore"
files.
> > So, the questions I have:
> >
> > 1. Do I need to install both OS on the master HD to be able to dual
boot?
> > If so, then is it possible to create 3 partitions on this drive (XP/XP
> > Backup/Linux) and do I need to have the partitions in a particular
order?
> >
> > 2. Do I need to install separate partitions on the secondary HD as well
to
> > be able to backup info for each OS or can I just format it in one format
> > (ie NTFS) and access it with either OS?
> >
> > I did some searching on Google regarding these and have found good info
on
> > each issue separately but want to confirm for this particular
situation..
> >
> > TIA!
>
> First, and most important, leave first hard drive alone except for the
MBR,
> about which, more later.
>
> From your description, it looks like you have a recently purchased Compaq
> with Windows XP pre-installed. In such a system you don't have a full
> operating system on the cdrom disk, nor will it be on the restore disk if
> you buy it.
> That means that if you should ever have to recover from a crash of the XP
> system the disks will assume that the drive is in the same configuration
as
> it was when it left the factory. If you get a restore disk and use it to
> restore the factory, it will over-write your drive to put it back into its
> original state and thereby wipe out any changes that you have made to your
> partitioning. (The restore will also replace your MBR with the original
> one, but that will not be a problem.)
> Second. linux installers are not yet able to write to the type of NTFS
> partition used by XP nor are they able to non-destructively shrink such a
> partition. I am told that there are third-party patition managers that can
> non-destructively shrink such a partition, but you still have the concern
> about a possible future need to restore your XP system.
>
> So you were quite right to put in a second hard drive.
>
> Linux is capable of booting from any partition, primary or extended and in
> either the primary master or primary slave drive. Whether it can boot to a
> secondary master or secondary slave is another issue and that depends on
> the capability of the bios, not any limit of linux.
>
> So, install linux in the second drive. You will need at least a root
> partition and a swap partition. The swap can be twice the size of the
ram,
> but if your ram is over 256 meg, reduce it to be equal to the ram to a
> maximum of 512 meg.
> You can install linux in a root partition holding the entire tree, but the
> default linux installer (Certainly Mandrake's) will probably separate the
> /home tree from the root and put it into a separate and larger partition.
> There are different philosophies of partitioning and the argument can get
> arcane, so my suggestion is to accept your distro's default partitioning.
>
> I would, hovever, suggest that you put a small vfat partition on the
second
> drive. Make it about 1/2 gig. As both operating systems can access that
> filesystem, it will be your file exchange. If you make it a primary, it
> will become D: and your former D: will become E: so put it into an
extended
> partition in order to keep D: as D:
> Linux can accept a boot from a floppy disk or from a jump from another
> system's boot manager or from a third party boot manager or from the
Master
> Boot Record (MBR).
> The simplest is to put the linux loader (lilo) into the MBR where it acts
as
> a boot manager to enable you to select from among the various operating
> systems aboard.
> Having lilo in the MBR will have no effect on your XP system except that
it
> is accessed through the linux boot menu.
> The XP MBR can be restored at any time should you want to go back to an XP
> only system or should you have to re-install XP (a windows install wants
> the MBR for windows). The MBR is the first 512 bytes in the primary
master
> drive and linux will save that when it installs lilo. The first 446 bytes
> will taken over by lilo and the remainder is the partition table which
will
> remain. To restore it, linux will on the command "lilo -u, copy back the
> first 446 bytes. Also XP will restore its possession of the MBR. The old
> command was fdisk /mbr but I think the new one is fixboot or fixmbr.
> If you use Mandrake, the system will install almost automatically with you
> answering a few questions and it will automatically (unless you tell it
> different) identify the presence of another operating system and set up
the
> multi-boot. Other current distros are no doubht the same.
>
>
>

Thank you all. I especially appreciate the extensive instructions. Very
helpfull.

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