alt.certification.network-plus - Home Networking with phone cable and RJ45 connectors...

Author

Home Networking with phone cable and RJ45 connectors...

Zenock@cox.net

2003-12-02, 12:25 pm

Hello,

I was trying to figure out a way to network two of my home computers
by using existing phone wiring. I have a wireless system now but want
hardwired and don't want to have to run extra wire.

The real question I'm asking is does the networking using RJ45
connectors need all four pairs of wires to work? I have a phone jack
with 4 pairs. The phone is only using one pair. Can I use these three
extra pair with an RJ45 connector? I can splice the extra three pairs
to thephone wiring going to another phone jack where my server will be
so I will have I will have a straight shot from my server to the
computer I want to network.

Can I use three pairs with a RJ45 connector and a standard computer
network card that accepts RJ45 connectors by using three pairs or do I
really need four pairs?

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

Thanks!

C. Philip Cutler II

2003-12-02, 1:24 pm

Using 1/2 duplex you only use 2 pair (4 wires) for communication cause it
can only listen or send at one time, using full duplex you use 4 pair (8
wires) where it can send and receive at the same time.

If you wish to acheive 100mbs though, you probably won't be able to use
phone wire cause of the way the wires are twisted, probalby not enough
twists per meter or too many. Phone lines are only generally Cat 1? maybe
2, and the requirements for 100mbs are Cat 5, even though I have seen 100mbs
on Cat 3, but very unstable.

Yes it is possible but not advised.

Philip

<Zenock@cox.net> wrote in message
news:bbhpsvk9kum7b6i5bjtskmn1b
nicl3qrrc@4ax.com...
> Hello,
>
> I was trying to figure out a way to network two of my home computers
> by using existing phone wiring. I have a wireless system now but want
> hardwired and don't want to have to run extra wire.
>
> The real question I'm asking is does the networking using RJ45
> connectors need all four pairs of wires to work? I have a phone jack
> with 4 pairs. The phone is only using one pair. Can I use these three
> extra pair with an RJ45 connector? I can splice the extra three pairs
> to thephone wiring going to another phone jack where my server will be
> so I will have I will have a straight shot from my server to the
> computer I want to network.
>
> Can I use three pairs with a RJ45 connector and a standard computer
> network card that accepts RJ45 connectors by using three pairs or do I
> really need four pairs?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated..
>
>
> Thanks!

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-02, 2:24 pm

Hello,

Thank you for your advice. I looked closer at the wires to the
telephone and it looks like it is Cat-5 cable as well.

I have a highspeed cable connected to my main computer and wanted to
hook up another computer in another room. Right now I am using a
wireless connection. Would a half-duplex wired connection be faster
than my 802.11b wireless connection? I haven't upgraded to the G
series yet...

Thanks in advance!

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:08:54 -0800, "C. Philip Cutler II"
<cpcii@cox.net> wrote:

>Using 1/2 duplex you only use 2 pair (4 wires) for communication cause it
>can only listen or send at one time, using full duplex you use 4 pair (8
>wires) where it can send and receive at the same time.
>
>If you wish to acheive 100mbs though, you probably won't be able to use
>phone wire cause of the way the wires are twisted, probalby not enough
>twists per meter or too many. Phone lines are only generally Cat 1? maybe
>2, and the requirements for 100mbs are Cat 5, even though I have seen 100mbs
>on Cat 3, but very unstable.
>
>Yes it is possible but not advised.
>
>Philip
>
>
>
><Zenock@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:bbhpsvk9kum7b6i5bjtskmn1b
nicl3qrrc@4ax.com...
>

Netwerkz

2003-12-02, 6:24 pm

"C. Philip Cutler II" <cpcii@cox.net> wrote in message
news:qc4zb.26449$9O5.25952@fed1read06...
> Using 1/2 duplex you only use 2 pair (4 wires) for communication cause it
> can only listen or send at one time, using full duplex you use 4 pair (8
> wires) where it can send and receive at the same time.
>
> If you wish to acheive 100mbs though, you probably won't be able to use
> phone wire cause of the way the wires are twisted, probalby not enough
> twists per meter or too many. Phone lines are only generally Cat 1? maybe
> 2, and the requirements for 100mbs are Cat 5, even though I have seen
100mbs
> on Cat 3, but very unstable.
>
> Yes it is possible but not advised.
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> <Zenock@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:bbhpsvk9kum7b6i5bjtskmn1b
nicl3qrrc@4ax.com...
>
>

100BaseTX uses 2 pair (four wires) and is Full-Duplex
capable.

Zenock can use 4 of the 6 remaining wires to
make the connection he wants.

Since this is a home network, I would have no reservation
about sharing a cat5 cable with voice and data.

The Finger

2003-12-02, 11:25 pm

Zenock@cox.net wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was trying to figure out a way to network two of my home computers
> by using existing phone wiring. I have a wireless system now but want
> hardwired and don't want to have to run extra wire.
>
> The real question I'm asking is does the networking using RJ45
> connectors need all four pairs of wires to work? I have a phone jack
> with 4 pairs. The phone is only using one pair. Can I use these three
> extra pair with an RJ45 connector? I can splice the extra three pairs
> to thephone wiring going to another phone jack where my server will be
> so I will have I will have a straight shot from my server to the
> computer I want to network.
>
> Can I use three pairs with a RJ45 connector and a standard computer
> network card that accepts RJ45 connectors by using three pairs or do I
> really need four pairs?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated..
>
>
> Thanks!
It sounds like you need to buy a home networking kits with cables, NIC
cards and a hub. this is the best wary to network computers. If you are
trying to share the Internet, you can purchase an Internet router with
an Ethernet hub built into it. You can also build a multi-homed router
with two NIC cards in a PC and by purchasing some Internet sharing
software.

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-03, 8:25 am

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:44:44 GMT, The Finger <eelder1@tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:

>Zenock@cox.net wrote:
>It sounds like you need to buy a home networking kits with cables, NIC
>cards and a hub. this is the best wary to network computers. If you are
>trying to share the Internet, you can purchase an Internet router with
>an Ethernet hub built into it. You can also build a multi-homed router
>with two NIC cards in a PC and by purchasing some Internet sharing
>software.

I already have a wireless network. I would just disable the wireless
stuff and use the same router. I already have the NIC cards for the
main computer and the other computer.

What I need to know is how to wire up the RJ45 connectors using only
four wires. The docs say to hook up four pairs of wires to the
connector. Which terminals do I hook up to if I am only using four
wires ( two Pairs)?

Thanks!

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-03, 8:25 am

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:14:57 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>"C. Philip Cutler II" <cpcii@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:qc4zb.26449$9O5.25952@fed1read06...
>100mbs
>
>100BaseTX uses 2 pair (four wires) and is Full-Duplex
>capable.
>
>Zenock can use 4 of the 6 remaining wires to
>make the connection he wants.
>
>Since this is a home network, I would have no reservation
>about sharing a cat5 cable with voice and data.
>
>

In what way do I hook up the four wires to the RJ45 connector so it
works? The docs show how to hook up 4 Pairs, but not if you are only
using 2 pairs.

THANKS!!

Netwerkz

2003-12-03, 12:24 pm

[snipped]
[color=blue]
> In what way do I hook up the four wires to the RJ45 connector so it
> works? The docs show how to hook up 4 Pairs, but not if you are only
> using 2 pairs.
>
> THANKS!!

What 3 color pairs are unused ( Blue, Orange, Green, or Brown)?
Will you be using RJ45 connectors on the ends or reconfiguring
your wall jacks for dual purpose 1 jack voice/ 1 jack data?

Have you ever made your own Cat5 cable?
Do you have a RJ45 crimp tool if goinf from RJ45 connector
to RJ45 connector? Do you have a punchdown tool if
going from jack to jack?

Basically, you will assign each of four wires to a number (1,2,3, and 6)
which will correspond to connection positions on either the wall jack
or the RJ45 connector.

Note: I made the assumption you do in fact have standard
cat5 wiring and the color code is that one we use in the U.S.

taff

2003-12-03, 7:25 pm

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:46:02 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
wrote:

>[snipped]
>
>
>What 3 color pairs are unused ( Blue, Orange, Green, or Brown)?
>Will you be using RJ45 connectors on the ends or reconfiguring
>your wall jacks for dual purpose 1 jack voice/ 1 jack data?
>
>Have you ever made your own Cat5 cable?
>Do you have a RJ45 crimp tool if goinf from RJ45 connector
>to RJ45 connector? Do you have a punchdown tool if
>going from jack to jack?
>
>Basically, you will assign each of four wires to a number (1,2,3, and 6)
>which will correspond to connection positions on either the wall jack
>or the RJ45 connector.
>
>Note: I made the assumption you do in fact have standard
>cat5 wiring and the color code is that one we use in the U.S.
>

Also have a look here, this should explain it all to you.
http://yoda.uvi.edu/InfoTech/rj45.htm

Taff...........

www.sounds-pa.com | www.thecomputerworkshop.com

The Finger

2003-12-03, 10:25 pm

Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:44:44 GMT, The Finger <eelder1@tampabay.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I already have a wireless network. I would just disable the wireless
> stuff and use the same router. I already have the NIC cards for the
> main computer and the other computer.
>
> What I need to know is how to wire up the RJ45 connectors using only
> four wires. The docs say to hook up four pairs of wires to the
> connector. Which terminals do I hook up to if I am only using four
> wires ( two Pairs)?
>
> Thanks!
>
Ethernet uses pins 1,2,3 and 6. 1,2 ar TX and 3,6 are receive.

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-04, 11:25 am

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:46:02 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
wrote:

>[snipped]
>
>
>What 3 color pairs are unused ( Blue, Orange, Green, or Brown)?
>Will you be using RJ45 connectors on the ends or reconfiguring
>your wall jacks for dual purpose 1 jack voice/ 1 jack data?
>
>Have you ever made your own Cat5 cable?
>Do you have a RJ45 crimp tool if goinf from RJ45 connector
>to RJ45 connector? Do you have a punchdown tool if
>going from jack to jack?
>
>Basically, you will assign each of four wires to a number (1,2,3, and 6)
>which will correspond to connection positions on either the wall jack
>or the RJ45 connector.
>
>Note: I made the assumption you do in fact have standard
>cat5 wiring and the color code is that one we use in the U.S.
>

Hello,

I believe the only wires used are the blue pair which is used for the
phone. I will be hooking up two female RJ45 jacks to both ends of the
wire. I believe my neighbor has all the tools I need to physically
connect the wires to the jacks themselves. I have never made my own
cable.

The color code you mention corresponds to the wires I have.

Is it possible to do it with three pairs? If so, which pin
configuration do I use?

Thanks!!

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-04, 11:25 am

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:54:09 GMT, The Finger <eelder1@tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:

>Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
>Ethernet uses pins 1,2,3 and 6. 1,2 ar TX and 3,6 are receive.

So which wires do I connect where? Thanks!

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-04, 11:25 am

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:40:42 +0000, taff <taff@the-valleys.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:46:02 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>Also have a look here, this should explain it all to you.
>http://yoda.uvi.edu/InfoTech/rj45.htm
>
>Taff...........
>
>
>
>www.sounds-pa.com | www.thecomputerworkshop.com

Hello,

I may be totally wrong, but it looks as if I can connect an orange
pair to pins 1 & 2 and a green pair to pins 3 and 6? Transmit and
receive. Again I am using the female RJ45 Jack.

Am I looking at this stuff correct? If so, why are the other two pairs
provided in Cat 5 cable?

Thanks!!

2003-12-04, 4:24 pm

<Zenock_remove_@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3dlusv4pgedsn9bemn7n3330t
pqbg317pt@4ax.com...
>
> Hello,
>
> I may be totally wrong, but it looks as if I can connect an orange
> pair to pins 1 & 2 and a green pair to pins 3 and 6? Transmit and
> receive. Again I am using the female RJ45 Jack.
>
> Am I looking at this stuff correct? If so, why are the other two pairs
> provided in Cat 5 cable?
>
> Thanks!!

The other two pairs can be used for non standard applications, i.e. in the
way you use them now, or for a second RJ45 connection.. They will probably
be used pretty soon to provide power over ethernet.

AT

JBS

2003-12-04, 7:24 pm

There are a couple of implementations that require 4 pairs. 100BaseT4 and
1000BaseTX both run on 4 pairs of Cat 5 UTP.

2003-12-04, 7:24 pm

Thanks for the info. I forgot about them.

AT

"JBS" <noone@thisdontwork.net> wrote in message
news:guPzb.4379$Oe5.3247@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> There are a couple of implementations that require 4 pairs. 100BaseT4 and
> 1000BaseTX both run on 4 pairs of Cat 5 UTP.
>
>

Netwerkz

2003-12-05, 4:24 pm

[snipped]

> Hello,
>
> I may be totally wrong, but it looks as if I can connect an orange
> pair to pins 1 & 2 and a green pair to pins 3 and 6? Transmit and
> receive. Again I am using the female RJ45 Jack.
>
> Am I looking at this stuff correct? If so, why are the other two pairs
> provided in Cat 5 cable?
>
> Thanks!!

Yes! as long you have the same color wires in the same respective positions
on the jacks, it should work.

Jack1-------------------Jack2
pin1---- white/orange ---- pin1
pin2------- orange ------- pin2
pin3----- white/green -----pin3
pin4 not used
pin5 not used
pin6-------- green --------pin6
pin7 not used
pin8 not used

pin = position on jack.

Barry Watzman

2003-12-07, 1:25 pm

The first point is that while you may have 8 conductor wire, it's
probably not Category 5 (or even category 3) network cable. If it's not
(and it's rather unlikely that it is), you probably won't get a reliable
connection, no matter what you do.

If your phone wiring was done with Category 5 cable, and if it was done
properly (phone wiring is rarely done "properly" relative to computer
network installations), it is then possible to use one pair for a phone
signal and two other pairs for a network connection. A network
connection uses only 2 pairs (4 wires), it is possible to use a
remaining unused pair for phone service. This isn't really recommended,
and you may have some network problems (especially when the phone
rings), but it usually works acceptable -- ***IF*** the phone wiring was
done with Category 5 wiring AND if it was done "properly" for network
applications. Unfortunately, in most homes, neither the wiring nor it's
installation is satisfactory for network use.

[for anyone building a house, DO use cat. 5 wiring for the phone
installations, and be sure that it's not "daisy chanined" -- that is, a
single cat. 5 cable runs from every phone jack directly and only back to
one single central wiring point. Most phone installations are "daisy
chained", that is the wire runs from the phone service entry point to
the 1st jack, then the 2nd jack, then the 3rd jack, etc. This makes use
for networking impossible, even if the cable is otherwise satisfactory.]

Zenock@cox.net wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I was trying to figure out a way to network two of my home computers
> by using existing phone wiring. I have a wireless system now but want
> hardwired and don't want to have to run extra wire.
>
> The real question I'm asking is does the networking using RJ45
> connectors need all four pairs of wires to work? I have a phone jack
> with 4 pairs. The phone is only using one pair. Can I use these three
> extra pair with an RJ45 connector? I can splice the extra three pairs
> to thephone wiring going to another phone jack where my server will be
> so I will have I will have a straight shot from my server to the
> computer I want to network.
>
> Can I use three pairs with a RJ45 connector and a standard computer
> network card that accepts RJ45 connectors by using three pairs or do I
> really need four pairs?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated..
>
>
> Thanks!

Barry Watzman

2003-12-07, 1:25 pm

Ignore his comments about duplex, they are not correct. Telephone is
full-duplex on 2 wires (one pair) and you need 4 wires (2 pair) for
network applications, full or half duplex.

But a bigger issue is how the wiring was done, phone wiring is usually
daisy-chained, making network use impossible.

Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Thank you for your advice. I looked closer at the wires to the
> telephone and it looks like it is Cat-5 cable as well.
>
> I have a highspeed cable connected to my main computer and wanted to
> hook up another computer in another room. Right now I am using a
> wireless connection. Would a half-duplex wired connection be faster
> than my 802.11b wireless connection? I haven't upgraded to the G
> series yet...
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:08:54 -0800, "C. Philip Cutler II"
> <cpcii@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>

Barry Watzman

2003-12-07, 1:25 pm

One pair goes to pins 1 & 2, the second pair goes to pins 3 & 6.

Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:44:44 GMT, The Finger <eelder1@tampabay.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I already have a wireless network. I would just disable the wireless
> stuff and use the same router. I already have the NIC cards for the
> main computer and the other computer.
>
> What I need to know is how to wire up the RJ45 connectors using only
> four wires. The docs say to hook up four pairs of wires to the
> connector. Which terminals do I hook up to if I am only using four
> wires ( two Pairs)?
>
> Thanks!
>

Barry Watzman

2003-12-07, 2:25 pm

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Don't use 3 pair, just use 2 (for the network). The color codes don't
really matter in your "one-off" situation, but you do need to keep
things paired properly. If you note the wiring, each different color
pair has a different number of twists per inch. Use the 2 most tightly
twisted pairs for the network if you have a choice.

Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:46:02 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I believe the only wires used are the blue pair which is used for the
> phone. I will be hooking up two female RJ45 jacks to both ends of the
> wire. I believe my neighbor has all the tools I need to physically
> connect the wires to the jacks themselves. I have never made my own
> cable.
>
> The color code you mention corresponds to the wires I have.
>
> Is it possible to do it with three pairs? If so, which pin
> configuration do I use?
>
> Thanks!!
>

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-08, 1:26 pm

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 20:54:54 GMT, "Netwerkz" <Netwerkz101@comcast.net>
wrote:

>[snipped]
>
>
>Yes! as long you have the same color wires in the same respective positions
>on the jacks, it should work.
>
>Jack1-------------------Jack2
>pin1---- white/orange ---- pin1
>pin2------- orange ------- pin2
>pin3----- white/green -----pin3
>pin4 not used
>pin5 not used
>pin6-------- green --------pin6
>pin7 not used
>pin8 not used
>
>pin = position on jack.
>

Thank you for your response. God will smile on your network from now
on. I don't think the wire were daisy chained as one writer mentioned.
I looked in the main telephone box and it looks as if everything goes
there.

Thanks!

I keep y'all posted on the results!

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-08, 1:26 pm

Thank you for your kind response. I don't believe my phones are daisy
chained. I looked into the main phone box and it looks as if all the
wires are run directly there. I'll let you know as soon as I do a few
tests.

Thanks!!

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:12:26 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Ignore his comments about duplex, they are not correct. Telephone is
>full-duplex on 2 wires (one pair) and you need 4 wires (2 pair) for
>network applications, full or half duplex.
>
>But a bigger issue is how the wiring was done, phone wiring is usually
>daisy-chained, making network use impossible.
>
>
>Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
>

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-08, 1:26 pm

Thank you so much for your help.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:14:10 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>One pair goes to pins 1 & 2, the second pair goes to pins 3 & 6.
>
>
>Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
>

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-08, 1:26 pm

Thank you very much for your help. I will take a look and verify what
type of wiring I have. If it's not Cat 5 I guess I'll go wireless G
and see what that does. Hopefully my wiring is Cat 5 and not daisy
chained..

Thanks!

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:17:21 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Don't use 3 pair, just use 2 (for the network). The color codes don't
>really matter in your "one-off" situation, but you do need to keep
>things paired properly. If you note the wiring, each different color
>pair has a different number of twists per inch. Use the 2 most tightly
>twisted pairs for the network if you have a choice.
>
>
>Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
>

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-08, 1:26 pm

Barry,

I just checked the wiring and it says it's "catlink" and "verified to
Cat 5". It also had some other PN's on it. I have six phones in the
hose and there are five cables coming out of the house into the
junction box so I do think they are daisy chained. I will go to the
two locations I want to connect and connect two pairs together on each
end so I can go outside and use my multimeter and find out which wires
are which. I understand I could have used a tone generator but I don't
have one.

Hopefully there won't be any interference problems with the existing
phone line..

Thanks

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:12:26 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Ignore his comments about duplex, they are not correct. Telephone is
>full-duplex on 2 wires (one pair) and you need 4 wires (2 pair) for
>network applications, full or half duplex.
>
>But a bigger issue is how the wiring was done, phone wiring is usually
>daisy-chained, making network use impossible.
>
>
>Zenock_remove_@cox.net wrote:
>

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-10, 11:25 pm

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-10, 11:25 pm

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-10, 11:25 pm

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-10, 11:25 pm

Zenock_remove_@cox.net

2003-12-10, 11:25 pm

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