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Home > Archive > alt.certification.network-plus > July 2002 > (UK) Computer engineering course says about MCSE, A+
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(UK) Computer engineering course says about MCSE, A+
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| evo-spook 2002-07-15, 10:25 am |
| From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
engineering, it says in its leaflet
Q. What about the MSCE & A+
A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
Is he talking crap or is he correct?
| |
| no@spam.org 2002-07-15, 11:25 am |
| A bit extreme I think. Although one might possibly be able to get
MCSE certified with only "book knowledge", I don't think it's too
likely. I'm not counting the braindumpers of course  Do you really
call it an IC extractor? 
Ron
MCP x 5: 210, 215, 216, 217, 220.
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
<evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
>engineering, it says in its leaflet
>
>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
>
>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
>
>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
>
>
>
>
| |
| evo-spook 2002-07-15, 11:25 am |
| Seeing as I've only just started the A+, to be honest, I hav'nt a clue what
any of them are, be pleased if you could kindly enlighten us, thanks
<no@spam.org> wrote in message
news:lkt5juk8ekt1tsin3n20o7poo
fe5fq3k7i@4ax.com...
> A bit extreme I think. Although one might possibly be able to get
> MCSE certified with only "book knowledge", I don't think it's too
> likely. I'm not counting the braindumpers of course Do you really
> call it an IC extractor?
>
> Ron
> MCP x 5: 210, 215, 216, 217, 220.
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
> <evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all
hands
> >on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
> >engineering, it says in its leaflet
> >
> >Q. What about the MSCE & A+
> >
> >A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
> >handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
> >'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
> >
> >Is he talking crap or is he correct?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-07-15, 12:25 pm |
| On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
<evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
>engineering, it says in its leaflet
>
>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
>
>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
>
>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
>
Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
Now, my opinion...
There has always been some controversy concerning tests that don't
require any hands on, but in reality, I think most people get some
hands on anyway, even though it is not required. Hands on is not
"required" for the CCNA, CCNP, and CCIE either, as far as I know.
I am a big proponent of hands on, and believe that being both
knowledgeable and experienced is the pinnacle. Some observations...I
suspect that the percentage of people who have no hands on and who
successfully do certification tests is likely lower than that for
people who have the hands on. That being said, I have known quite a
few people who couldn't pass a technical test (electronics) if their
lives depended on it, but they earn a successful living in repairing
what they "supposedly" know little or nothing about (if you were to
simply and blindly trust test results).
The tests are a barometer, a means of evaluation. How well do they do
their job? There are many means for assessing the success of a testing
process, including how successful people who pass are in their work,
how many people take the tests, how well they are accepted by
employers, etc. That being said...
The overall tone of the answer strikes me as a sour grapes thing.
Instead of focusing on their positives, they try to point out
negatives in two very popular and successful certifications. That is
usually a sign of insecurity, lack of conviction, lack of confidence
in one's own product. It's "We believe our testing process is superior
because..." as opposed to "The problems with the A+ and MCSE are...".
It is a subtle distinction, admittedly.
Remember the old saying...when you're number two, you try harder.
Tom
| |
| Delbert Matlock 2002-07-15, 7:25 pm |
| tom__macintyre@hotmail.com (Tom MacIntyre) wrote:
>Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
>creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
>worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
>joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
>connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
>in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
You can always tell a techie who has been around for a while. Talk of
chip creep brings back memory of pulling a 2MB Above Board out of my
computer to reseat about 32 or so chips. Used to call it "popping the
board". Fortunately, that problem seemed to mostly go away with the
move away from DIP (dual inline package) chips.
--
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Remove the all uppercase letters from my e-mail address for replys (no SPAM)
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| |
|
| In article <uj5rl01guhk510@corp.supernews.com>, "evo-spook"
<evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
> on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
> engineering, it says in its leaflet
>
> Q. What about the MSCE & A+
>
> A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
> handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
> 'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
>
> Is he talking crap or is he correct?
Absolutely correct, on both counts... you need no experience or formal
training to actually sit the exams- but without either formal training or
experience, it is highly doubtful you can pass...
Also, yes, it is very "Americanized" in that most of the language used is
American English.
| |
| rob beattie 2002-07-18, 6:25 pm |
| On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:24:12 GMT, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com (Tom
MacIntyre) wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
><evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
>>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
>>engineering, it says in its leaflet
>>
>>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
>>
>>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
>>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
>>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
>>
>>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
>>
>
>Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
>creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
>worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
>joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
>connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
>in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
Actually a 'dry joint' is a joint which does not have enough solder on
it to provide a good electrical contact. This usually occurs during
the surface mount placing stage and has nothing to do with excessive
heat really. I should know since my job involves fault finding and
repairing down to component levels and I have come across hundreds of
such examples.
I, too am from the UK and have also used IC extractor and puller
although I believe extractor is the 'proper' name for the tool. I only
say puller when I'm feeling a bit lazy as it has one less syllable ;-)
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-07-18, 10:25 pm |
| On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:18:37 GMT, rob@/remove/ghosh.co.uk (rob
beattie) wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:24:12 GMT, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com (Tom
>MacIntyre) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
>><evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
>>>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
>>>engineering, it says in its leaflet
>>>
>>>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
>>>
>>>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
>>>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
>>>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
>>>
>>>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
>>>
>>
>>Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
>>creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
>>worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
>>joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
>>connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
>>in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
>Actually a 'dry joint' is a joint which does not have enough solder on
>it to provide a good electrical contact. This usually occurs during
>the surface mount placing stage and has nothing to do with excessive
>heat really. I should know since my job involves fault finding and
>repairing down to component levels and I have come across hundreds of
>such examples.
So what do you and your folks use to refer to a solder joint that has
gone bad due to heat? In the electronics repair circles I travel,
which includes UK people, they are referred to as dry joints.
Tom
>I, too am from the UK and have also used IC extractor and puller
>although I believe extractor is the 'proper' name for the tool. I only
>say puller when I'm feeling a bit lazy as it has one less syllable ;-)
| |
| LAN Man 2002-07-19, 7:25 pm |
| "Dry joint" versus "Cold solder joint"?
Years ago when I did component level repair, a solder connection damaged by
the cycling of heat and cold, was referred to as a "cold solder joint". And
a solder connection that was bad due to a lack of adequate solder being
applied was referred to as a "dry joint".
Just my 2-cents.......
LAN Man
"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of
strength, not a lack of knowledge, but a lack of will."
~ Vincent Thomas "Vince" Lombardi
"Tom MacIntyre" <tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d37c1e3.258274106@news.wolf...
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:18:37 GMT, rob@/remove/ghosh.co.uk (rob
> beattie) wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:24:12 GMT, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com (Tom
> >MacIntyre) wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
> >><evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all
hands
> >>>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
> >>>engineering, it says in its leaflet
> >>>
> >>>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
> >>>
> >>>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without
physically
> >>>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised.
Their
> >>>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
> >>>
> >>>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
> >>creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
> >>worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
> >>joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
> >>connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
> >>in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
> >Actually a 'dry joint' is a joint which does not have enough solder on
> >it to provide a good electrical contact. This usually occurs during
> >the surface mount placing stage and has nothing to do with excessive
> >heat really. I should know since my job involves fault finding and
> >repairing down to component levels and I have come across hundreds of
> >such examples.
>
> So what do you and your folks use to refer to a solder joint that has
> gone bad due to heat? In the electronics repair circles I travel,
> which includes UK people, they are referred to as dry joints.
>
> Tom
>
> >I, too am from the UK and have also used IC extractor and puller
> >although I believe extractor is the 'proper' name for the tool. I only
> >say puller when I'm feeling a bit lazy as it has one less syllable ;-)
>
| |
|
| In article <3d37c1e3.258274106@news.wolf>, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:18:37 GMT, rob@/remove/ghosh.co.uk (rob
> beattie) wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:24:12 GMT, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com (Tom
> >MacIntyre) wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0100, "evo-spook"
> >><evo_spook@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>From a place that does a computer engineering course, its mostly all hands
> >>>on stuff, the best qualification they have is BTEC level 2 ub Computer
> >>>engineering, it says in its leaflet
> >>>
> >>>Q. What about the MSCE & A+
> >>>
> >>>A. the short fall in both of these is you can sit them without physically
> >>>handling any computer components. they are also very americanised. Their
> >>>'Chip creep is our dry joint and our IC extractor is their 'puller'
> >>>
> >>>Is he talking crap or is he correct?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Chip creep is not the same as a dry joint, as I understand it. Chip
> >>creep is when a socketed IC, from the cycling of heat and cold, has
> >>worked its way out of its socket slightly, causing poor contact. A dry
> >>joint, at least in the electronics circles I frequent, is a solder
> >>connection which has gone bad, usually due to extreme heat. I am not
> >>in the US, but I have used both terms, IC extractor and IC puller.
> >Actually a 'dry joint' is a joint which does not have enough solder on
> >it to provide a good electrical contact. This usually occurs during
> >the surface mount placing stage and has nothing to do with excessive
> >heat really. I should know since my job involves fault finding and
> >repairing down to component levels and I have come across hundreds of
> >such examples.
>
> So what do you and your folks use to refer to a solder joint that has
> gone bad due to heat? In the electronics repair circles I travel,
> which includes UK people, they are referred to as dry joints.
>
> Tom
>
> >I, too am from the UK and have also used IC extractor and puller
> >although I believe extractor is the 'proper' name for the tool. I only
> >say puller when I'm feeling a bit lazy as it has one less syllable ;-)
Tom...
Here, we call that a cold solder joint- but I always understood it as a
joint gone bad because of LACK of heat- or more to the point, a joint
where the metal was not up to proper temperature before the solder was
applied and later failed because of it.
Am I wrong?
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2002-07-19, 10:25 pm |
| On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:24:08 -0400, user@user.com (Ghost) wrote:
>In article <3d37c1e3.258274106@news.wolf>, tom__macintyre@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Tom
>>
>> >I, too am from the UK and have also used IC extractor and puller
>> >although I believe extractor is the 'proper' name for the tool. I only
>> >say puller when I'm feeling a bit lazy as it has one less syllable ;-)
>
>Tom...
>
>Here, we call that a cold solder joint- but I always understood it as a
>joint gone bad because of LACK of heat- or more to the point, a joint
>where the metal was not up to proper temperature before the solder was
>applied and later failed because of it.
>
>Am I wrong?
>
No, that is one reason for a solder joint to fail. They fail due to
extreme in-circuit heat also, even if they were properly done to start
with.
Tom
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