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Home > Archive > alt.certification.cisco > March 2003 > practice exams for 15 cisco certification exams
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practice exams for 15 cisco certification exams
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| CCNA+++ 2003-03-29, 10:23 pm |
| 1. It's stealing. You didn't wrote these questions, you downloaded them from the Internet and sell.
2. It's cheating. Sure it's more morale question, but it's cheating.
3. Everybody, I repeat, EVERYBODY who really don't care about first two points, can download them from the Internet.
"Steve" <saladd@comcast.net> wrote in message news:H-mcnXuexY3WuhujXTWc3Q@comcast.com...
for less than $1.50 each.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...3409146768&rd=1
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| Steve 2003-03-29, 11:23 pm |
| I beg your pardon.
1. It's not stealing. If I purchase a carton of eggs, and sell the eggs individually, have I stolen anything? Same applies here.
2. It's not cheating, it's studying. I've studied for many certification exams myself, and have found (help me out here other readers) that using practice exams, ESPECIALLY when answers with full explanations are provided, to be THE most helpful study aide available. This is not meant to replace textbook studying, as is clearly stated in the auction listed below, it is intended to supplement all other forms of exam preparation.
3. Yes, there is plenty of information available for free download, and if anyone is stupid enough to try to resell something that was downloaded for free, then they deserve the hassle you have given me in your response. This is not the case here.
4. Other readers, am I out of line in being defensive against this reply post?
Have a great day!
"CCNA+++" <ccna@inbox.ru> wrote in message news:s7uha.283503$6b3.1278380@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
1. It's stealing. You didn't wrote these questions, you downloaded them from the Internet and sell.
2. It's cheating. Sure it's more morale question, but it's cheating.
3. Everybody, I repeat, EVERYBODY who really don't care about first two points, can download them from the Internet.
"Steve" <saladd@comcast.net> wrote in message news:H-mcnXuexY3WuhujXTWc3Q@comcast.com...
for less than $1.50 each.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...3409146768&rd=1
| |
| Bernie 2003-03-30, 12:24 am |
| On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:00:36 -0500, "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net>
wrote:
>I beg your pardon.
>
>1. It's not stealing. If I purchase a carton of eggs, and sell the eggs individually, have I stolen anything? Same applies here.
That is bogus analogy because the legal rules for selling software
(intellectual property) are much more complex than those for
(re)selling eggs.. It boils down to this though. If you are
essentially reselling software that you are done with and you do not
retain a copy yourself after the sale, then it is probably legal. If
you are simply replicating without limitation something that you only
paid for one copy of, it is most certainly not legal. You are the
only one that knows which you are doing. You don't appear to be
selling multiple copies, so one can't say definitively that you are
stealing the software.
>2. It's not cheating, it's studying. I've studied for many certification exams myself, and have found (help me out here other readers) that using practice exams, ESPECIALLY when answers with full explanations are provided, to be THE most helpful study a
ide available. This is not meant to replace textbook studying, as is clearly stated in the auction listed below, it is intended to supplement all other forms of exam preparation.
Sure, studying *the* questions and *the* answers are the most helpful
study aids around. No one is arguing against that, because it is
trivial to note that *cheating* is the best study aid around. The
problem is that it is, ahem, cheating.
There is nothing wrong with practice tests that don't contain actual
exam questions. Boson, for example, sells legit practice tests. Most
other practice test vendors are not so ethical. So unless you are
defending practice exams like Boson, then you are most likely trying
to justify cheating. I don't know which type of "practice exam" you
are defending, so I'll give the benefit of doubt pending further
clarification.
>3. Yes, there is plenty of information available for free download, and if anyone is stupid enough to try to resell something that was downloaded for free, then they deserve the hassle you have given me in your response. This is not the case here.
>
>4. Other readers, am I out of line in being defensive against this reply post?
However, it should be noted that our group charter prohibits
advertising of any kind except in the case that a service or product
is specifically requested (and then you can respond with your offer of
services or product). We'd appreciate that you keep this in mind for
future reference.
>Have a great day!
> "CCNA+++" <ccna@inbox.ru> wrote in message news:s7uha.283503$6b3.1278380@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> 1. It's stealing. You didn't wrote these questions, you downloaded them from the Internet and sell.
> 2. It's cheating. Sure it's more morale question, but it's cheating.
> 3. Everybody, I repeat, EVERYBODY who really don't care about first two points, can download them from the Internet.
> "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net> wrote in message news:H-mcnXuexY3WuhujXTWc3Q@comcast.com...
> for less than $1.50 each.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...3409146768&rd=1
--Bernie
| |
|
| I was unaware that this group did (does) not welcome advertising, I will
certainly refrain from posting unsolicited posts in the future. Bernie,
thank you for your explanations, can you provide any links where I might
visit to learn more about the rules? I certainly don't want to violate any
laws or regulations, I'm simply trying to help out, and offload materials
that I have no use for.
Thanks, steve.
"Bernie" <Bernie@weekend.com> wrote in message
news:AA83B32010F6249D.06996DC1D306727F.7D5FB89EECA3271F@lp.airnews.net...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:00:36 -0500, "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I beg your pardon.
> >
> >1. It's not stealing. If I purchase a carton of eggs, and sell the eggs
individually, have I stolen anything? Same applies here.
>
> That is bogus analogy because the legal rules for selling software
> (intellectual property) are much more complex than those for
> (re)selling eggs.. It boils down to this though. If you are
> essentially reselling software that you are done with and you do not
> retain a copy yourself after the sale, then it is probably legal. If
> you are simply replicating without limitation something that you only
> paid for one copy of, it is most certainly not legal. You are the
> only one that knows which you are doing. You don't appear to be
> selling multiple copies, so one can't say definitively that you are
> stealing the software.
>
> >2. It's not cheating, it's studying. I've studied for many
certification exams myself, and have found (help me out here other readers)
that using practice exams, ESPECIALLY when answers with full explanations
are provided, to be THE most helpful study aide available. This is not
meant to replace textbook studying, as is clearly stated in the auction
listed below, it is intended to supplement all other forms of exam
preparation.
>
> Sure, studying *the* questions and *the* answers are the most helpful
> study aids around. No one is arguing against that, because it is
> trivial to note that *cheating* is the best study aid around. The
> problem is that it is, ahem, cheating.
>
> There is nothing wrong with practice tests that don't contain actual
> exam questions. Boson, for example, sells legit practice tests. Most
> other practice test vendors are not so ethical. So unless you are
> defending practice exams like Boson, then you are most likely trying
> to justify cheating. I don't know which type of "practice exam" you
> are defending, so I'll give the benefit of doubt pending further
> clarification.
>
> >3. Yes, there is plenty of information available for free download, and
if anyone is stupid enough to try to resell something that was downloaded
for free, then they deserve the hassle you have given me in your response.
This is not the case here.
> >
> >4. Other readers, am I out of line in being defensive against this reply
post?
>
> However, it should be noted that our group charter prohibits
> advertising of any kind except in the case that a service or product
> is specifically requested (and then you can respond with your offer of
> services or product). We'd appreciate that you keep this in mind for
> future reference.
>
> >Have a great day!
> > "CCNA+++" <ccna@inbox.ru> wrote in message
news:s7uha.283503$6b3.1278380@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > 1. It's stealing. You didn't wrote these questions, you downloaded them
from the Internet and sell.
> > 2. It's cheating. Sure it's more morale question, but it's cheating.
> > 3. Everybody, I repeat, EVERYBODY who really don't care about first two
points, can download them from the Internet.
> > "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:H-mcnXuexY3WuhujXTWc3Q@comcast.com...
> > for less than $1.50 each.
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...tem=3409146768&
rd=1
>
>
> --Bernie
| |
| Bernie 2003-03-30, 2:24 pm |
| On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:49:37 -0500, "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net>
wrote:
>I was unaware that this group did (does) not welcome advertising, I will
>certainly refrain from posting unsolicited posts in the future. Bernie,
>thank you for your explanations, can you provide any links where I might
>visit to learn more about the rules? I certainly don't want to violate any
>laws or regulations, I'm simply trying to help out, and offload materials
>that I have no use for.
>Thanks, steve.
No problem. Here is the charter for your convenience:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alt.certification.cisco will be used by those people pursuing IT
certification worldwide on Cisco routing products. This will include
all Cisco-sponsored certifications. The discussions will cover all
topics relevant to Cisco certification, including costs, studying,
study aids, job prospects, and industry outlooks. This is not a
comprehensive list of potential topics. A degree of technical
discussion will be expected, but in-depth discussion should take place
on comp.dcom.sys.cisco.
This newsgroup will be unmoderated and self-policed by the regulars.
Any use deemed appropriate by those using the newsgroup will be
acceptable.
Advertising policy: SPAM will not be tolerated, accepted or
encouraged.The use of proper Netiquette will be expected from all
posters. Crossposting should be limited to and from relevant
newsgroups only. Commercial posting will not be considered
acceptable, unless in response to a specific question.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to find charters of other groups you can find them on this
FTP server. Just replace the zip file name for this group with the
name of any group you are looking for:
ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/contro...ication.cisco.Z
Basically, this is the control message archive.
As for other points of clarification:
1) Reselling software: The rules regarding what you can and cannot do
are most likely contained in the license agreement (that thing we
always click to get past without reading, lol). If you are worried
about breaking any rules in this arena, just check the license
agreement and see what is and is not prohibited. Generally, it is
fair to resell something you have finished with and no longer will
use. But that is not always the case, and the license agreement will
tell you what you "agreed" to do. Keep in mind that most courts side
with the software companies these days, no matter how rediculous the
license agreement is. That is because clicking "ok" binds you into a
contractual agreement which is not lightly thrown aside in a court of
law. [And that is why it is not like reselling eggs from the store.]
2) NDA violations: Basically, the rule of thumb is to stay away from
sharing or getting *real* exam questions. For the minutia though, you
would need to read the actual NDA. Different vendors have slightly
different rules. Most of the time you are safe if you just avoid
discussing real questions (or things that are close approximations of
real questions). And again since you agree to the NDA in order to
take the exam, you are contractually bound by what you agreed to.
Anyway, all that aside, you might have been flamed without real
reason.
HTH
--Bernie
| |
|
| Bernie, I appreciate your candid responses and your provisions for the group
charter. I agree that I was unecessarily "flamed". What I posted was an
offer for quality, comprehensive, and realistic practice questions, part of
a set that I purchased. When I purchased it, there was no license
agreement, as this is not software, it's merely a handful of pdf's; there is
no "click ok to acknowledge.." button, as there is no installation
required.. As for NDA, doesn't seem to apply to me, seeing as I have not
taken any of the Cisco exams to date, which is the whole reason that I'm
offering those parts of the package that I purchased to others who may
benefit from it. 
In short, thank you for helping me understand better the "rules of
engagement".
"Bernie" <Bernie@weekend.com> wrote in message
news:701A878C73791B7B.EFD35FDD4ACB924E.8DAA7E2989129CB2@lp.airnews.net...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:49:37 -0500, "Steve" <saladd@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I was unaware that this group did (does) not welcome advertising, I will
> >certainly refrain from posting unsolicited posts in the future. Bernie,
> >thank you for your explanations, can you provide any links where I might
> >visit to learn more about the rules? I certainly don't want to violate
any
> >laws or regulations, I'm simply trying to help out, and offload materials
> >that I have no use for.
> >Thanks, steve.
>
> No problem. Here is the charter for your convenience:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
> alt.certification.cisco will be used by those people pursuing IT
> certification worldwide on Cisco routing products. This will include
> all Cisco-sponsored certifications. The discussions will cover all
> topics relevant to Cisco certification, including costs, studying,
> study aids, job prospects, and industry outlooks. This is not a
> comprehensive list of potential topics. A degree of technical
> discussion will be expected, but in-depth discussion should take place
> on comp.dcom.sys.cisco.
>
> This newsgroup will be unmoderated and self-policed by the regulars.
> Any use deemed appropriate by those using the newsgroup will be
> acceptable.
>
> Advertising policy: SPAM will not be tolerated, accepted or
> encouraged.The use of proper Netiquette will be expected from all
> posters. Crossposting should be limited to and from relevant
> newsgroups only. Commercial posting will not be considered
> acceptable, unless in response to a specific question.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
>
>
> If you want to find charters of other groups you can find them on this
> FTP server. Just replace the zip file name for this group with the
> name of any group you are looking for:
>
> ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/contro...ication.cisco.Z
>
> Basically, this is the control message archive.
>
> As for other points of clarification:
>
> 1) Reselling software: The rules regarding what you can and cannot do
> are most likely contained in the license agreement (that thing we
> always click to get past without reading, lol). If you are worried
> about breaking any rules in this arena, just check the license
> agreement and see what is and is not prohibited. Generally, it is
> fair to resell something you have finished with and no longer will
> use. But that is not always the case, and the license agreement will
> tell you what you "agreed" to do. Keep in mind that most courts side
> with the software companies these days, no matter how rediculous the
> license agreement is. That is because clicking "ok" binds you into a
> contractual agreement which is not lightly thrown aside in a court of
> law. [And that is why it is not like reselling eggs from the store.]
>
> 2) NDA violations: Basically, the rule of thumb is to stay away from
> sharing or getting *real* exam questions. For the minutia though, you
> would need to read the actual NDA. Different vendors have slightly
> different rules. Most of the time you are safe if you just avoid
> discussing real questions (or things that are close approximations of
> real questions). And again since you agree to the NDA in order to
> take the exam, you are contractually bound by what you agreed to.
>
>
>
> Anyway, all that aside, you might have been flamed without real
> reason.
>
> HTH
>
> --Bernie
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