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Home > Archive > alt.certification.cisco > July 2002 > CAREER GUIDANCE
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| roomantic 2002-07-30, 6:25 am |
| hi,
Let me give u guys an intro bout me first.I am an engineering
graduate(Telecommunications)wo
rking as a tech support specialist from
the past 2 years,supporting cmputer hardware.I would like to take up a
certification to further my career prospects.I've heard a lot about
MSCE and the microsoft stream of certifications but have also heard
that there are too many of them nowadays and it doesnt hold much
water.The Cisco line I've heard is better.also linux is coming up in a
big way.
Coming to the point,what certification do you guys think i should
pursue?I just want to make the right decision!
Personally i am interested in CISCO but would like some expert
advice
thanks for all the help in advance and regards
rohit ghai
| |
| Bernie 2002-07-30, 9:25 am |
| On 30 Jul 2002 04:31:23 -0700, rohit_tar@hotmail.com (roomantic)
wrote:
Right now the IT market is *soooo* much better for systems people,
i.e. those that work with servers (NT, Win2k, UNIX, Linux, etc.) and
enterprise applications (SAP, etc.) than it is for people working in
networking.
If you want to fight an uphill battle with hundreds, maybe thousands
of skilled applicants for those *one* or *two* nonadvertised network
engineering jobs in your area, then by all means get into networking
with all the other thousands of laid off workers. If you want an
easier career path for the near future than learn things like Win2k,
or UNIX, etc.
Note that I did not say get certified on Win2k or UNIX. The actual
paper doesn't help you that much. It is the knowledge and experience
that is the key. So learn them, and if you want to get certified
after you learn, then go do that. But don't be surprised if your
certification does not wow a manager if you tell that manager you have
little experience with the thing you are certified on. That is why I
say the paper is worth little. You would be better off without the
paper asking the manager to have one of his senior guys test your
knowledge on UNIX for instance. That way, you would be able to prove
to him what you know rather than him thinking you are a paper-nobody.
>hi,
>Let me give u guys an intro bout me first.I am an engineering
> graduate(Telecommunications)wo
rking as a tech support specialist from
>the past 2 years,supporting cmputer hardware.I would like to take up a
>certification to further my career prospects.I've heard a lot about
>MSCE and the microsoft stream of certifications but have also heard
>that there are too many of them nowadays and it doesnt hold much
>water.
That is true of any cert that has been around long enough. There are
too many CCNAs out there too.
>The Cisco line I've heard is better.
If someone has told you that in the last few months, then they lied to
you. Demand on the network side of things has dropped like a rock,
yet the supply of people keeps increasing.
>also linux is coming up in a
>big way.
I wouldn't know but am not surprised. Just a tip though, don't worry
about which certification is "big" right now. You should attempt to
look at the market prospects of the underlying products. IOW, if you
see Linux gaining ground in the enterprise, then it is certain that
demand for skills is going to grow. However, if you don't see Linux
making inroads into server rooms, then you might just be wasting your
time on something that your friend mistakenly told you is "hot."
>Coming to the point,what certification do you guys think i should
>pursue?I just want to make the right decision!
By your statement, I think you might want to readjust your
perspective. By asking what is the right decision, I assume that you
are under the impression that there is a single correct answer to
"what should I get into." The problem with that thinking is that it
leads to a cyclical industry. For example, when the MCSE was "the
'right' way to go" that lead to tons of people going into systems work
resulting in an eventual flood of low paid workers. So then all those
people heard that Cisco certification was "the 'right' way to go", so
they all got their CCNA resulting in a flood of low paid networking
people. Now that those people cannot get jobs that pay anything, they
are seeking the next promised land. Avoid the sheeple
phenomenon--don't be one of the mass herds of people following what
was hot yesterday (because yesterday is the truth of what they are
chasing).
The answer is that there is no one single answer. There are lots of
skills that hold their value over time simply because there are no
certification mills diluting their pool of people. If you want longer
term career prospects, figure out what skills are not easy to obtain
that are highly sought after. For example, I always remember SAP jobs
listing at 125k in the local papers. How many SAP guys do you know?
I don't know one. But I can promise that if there was a gold rush on
SAP certification, the market for the skills would go into the
crapper. However, I don't see that happening ever. So there is a
potential "correct" answer for you. I can promise you that there are
many, many other "correct" answers that will give you a good career.
The only problem is getting skills in those areas...
>Personally i am interested in CISCO but would like some expert
>advice
>thanks for all the help in advance and regards
>rohit ghai
--Bernie
| |
|
| Referring to what Bernie said, it is easier to gain hands-on experience on
Systems, Microsoft or Unix/Linux, than Cisco equipments. It took me a few
years to finally get my hands on GSRs and 7500s with the most updated
technologies, and I was on the fast track during the dot-com boom. However,
I was able to learn Red Hat from day one ever since I started in this
industry.
I would suggest to do what you are interested in with a weighted decision
between your interest and reality. Work is boring by default, even as a
network engineer there is still a lot of hand-holding and babysitting
involved with any organization, I am grateful for the 50% of the time I
actually get to work on the technologies and learning new things. I can't
imagine if I need to work 8 hrs everyday on things I only have a mild
interest in.
Eman
"Bernie" <Bernie@weekend.com> wrote in message
news:C777346E6B60B275.EB7480837D1429DE.7668C84E0DF7CFCE@lp.airnews.net...
> On 30 Jul 2002 04:31:23 -0700, rohit_tar@hotmail.com (roomantic)
> wrote:
>
> Right now the IT market is *soooo* much better for systems people,
> i.e. those that work with servers (NT, Win2k, UNIX, Linux, etc.) and
> enterprise applications (SAP, etc.) than it is for people working in
> networking.
>
> If you want to fight an uphill battle with hundreds, maybe thousands
> of skilled applicants for those *one* or *two* nonadvertised network
> engineering jobs in your area, then by all means get into networking
> with all the other thousands of laid off workers. If you want an
> easier career path for the near future than learn things like Win2k,
> or UNIX, etc.
>
> Note that I did not say get certified on Win2k or UNIX. The actual
> paper doesn't help you that much. It is the knowledge and experience
> that is the key. So learn them, and if you want to get certified
> after you learn, then go do that. But don't be surprised if your
> certification does not wow a manager if you tell that manager you have
> little experience with the thing you are certified on. That is why I
> say the paper is worth little. You would be better off without the
> paper asking the manager to have one of his senior guys test your
> knowledge on UNIX for instance. That way, you would be able to prove
> to him what you know rather than him thinking you are a paper-nobody.
>
> >hi,
> >Let me give u guys an intro bout me first.I am an engineering
> > graduate(Telecommunications)wo
rking as a tech support specialist from
> >the past 2 years,supporting cmputer hardware.I would like to take up a
> >certification to further my career prospects.I've heard a lot about
> >MSCE and the microsoft stream of certifications but have also heard
> >that there are too many of them nowadays and it doesnt hold much
> >water.
>
> That is true of any cert that has been around long enough. There are
> too many CCNAs out there too.
>
> >The Cisco line I've heard is better.
>
> If someone has told you that in the last few months, then they lied to
> you. Demand on the network side of things has dropped like a rock,
> yet the supply of people keeps increasing.
>
> >also linux is coming up in a
> >big way.
>
> I wouldn't know but am not surprised. Just a tip though, don't worry
> about which certification is "big" right now. You should attempt to
> look at the market prospects of the underlying products. IOW, if you
> see Linux gaining ground in the enterprise, then it is certain that
> demand for skills is going to grow. However, if you don't see Linux
> making inroads into server rooms, then you might just be wasting your
> time on something that your friend mistakenly told you is "hot."
>
> >Coming to the point,what certification do you guys think i should
> >pursue?I just want to make the right decision!
>
> By your statement, I think you might want to readjust your
> perspective. By asking what is the right decision, I assume that you
> are under the impression that there is a single correct answer to
> "what should I get into." The problem with that thinking is that it
> leads to a cyclical industry. For example, when the MCSE was "the
> 'right' way to go" that lead to tons of people going into systems work
> resulting in an eventual flood of low paid workers. So then all those
> people heard that Cisco certification was "the 'right' way to go", so
> they all got their CCNA resulting in a flood of low paid networking
> people. Now that those people cannot get jobs that pay anything, they
> are seeking the next promised land. Avoid the sheeple
> phenomenon--don't be one of the mass herds of people following what
> was hot yesterday (because yesterday is the truth of what they are
> chasing).
>
> The answer is that there is no one single answer. There are lots of
> skills that hold their value over time simply because there are no
> certification mills diluting their pool of people. If you want longer
> term career prospects, figure out what skills are not easy to obtain
> that are highly sought after. For example, I always remember SAP jobs
> listing at 125k in the local papers. How many SAP guys do you know?
> I don't know one. But I can promise that if there was a gold rush on
> SAP certification, the market for the skills would go into the
> crapper. However, I don't see that happening ever. So there is a
> potential "correct" answer for you. I can promise you that there are
> many, many other "correct" answers that will give you a good career.
> The only problem is getting skills in those areas...
>
> >Personally i am interested in CISCO but would like some expert
> >advice
> >thanks for all the help in advance and regards
> >rohit ghai
>
>
> --Bernie
| |
| Tom H. 2002-07-30, 9:25 pm |
| I think you are looking at the horse from the wrong end :-(
Originally, certifications were meant for people that had
experience with a product, and by "being certified", it implied
you knew the product well enough to pass a vendor sponsored
exam. Since training material was hard to come by, it *did*
mean something way back when.
Lately (over the past few years), the trend has been to read a few
books, or sign up at one of the "get certified quick" places, with
the goal being to get that magic piece of paper so you can get into
a high paying job. In the real world, things never worked out that
way...
At the end of the day, a company will hire you to do a job that
needs doing. It is up to you to look at where your interests lie, and
where you see opportunities in the marketplace. You also need to
be flexible, and to constantly upgrade your skill set to stay relevant
in an ever changing world. There was some rather long (and
interesting) threads over the past few months posted here, but in a
nutshell, it boiled down to the following: Experience is king. If you
have no experience, expect to start at the bottom, and work your
way up from there.
Certs without experience are not worth a whole lot for several
reasons. First and foremost, it is too easy to cheat - especially on the
Microsoft exams. Questions are not changed frequently enough, and
braindumps (lists of questions and answers) are easily obtained. As a
result, "certified" individuals have little knowledge about a product they
are certified on. Yes - there are people that know their stuff, just that
the cheaters have made things bad for everyone. The other issue is
that a cert (done properly) exposes you to most/all of the product, and
ideally you know how it works *in theory*. Real life tends to present
a different set of challenges. Users do things they are not supposed to,
bugs creep in, and stuff breaks in ways that the training material never
covered... Which leads us back to experience.
I guess the bottom line is this: there are no simple answers, just
difficult
choices. Like the rest of us, you will make your choices (both good and
bad) and live with the consequences.
Don't know if this helped or not, but for what its worth...
Tom
"roomantic" <rohit_tar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:80bd25f3.0207300331.5fe91e63@posting.google.com...
> hi,
> Let me give u guys an intro bout me first.I am an engineering
> graduate(Telecommunications)wo
rking as a tech support specialist from
> the past 2 years,supporting cmputer hardware.I would like to take up a
> certification to further my career prospects.I've heard a lot about
> MSCE and the microsoft stream of certifications but have also heard
> that there are too many of them nowadays and it doesnt hold much
> water.The Cisco line I've heard is better.also linux is coming up in a
> big way.
> Coming to the point,what certification do you guys think i should
> pursue?I just want to make the right decision!
> Personally i am interested in CISCO but would like some expert
> advice
> thanks for all the help in advance and regards
> rohit ghai
| |
| roomantic 2002-07-30, 10:25 pm |
| hi Bernie
thanks for the advice.your reply was very useful in clearing a lot of
doubts that I hadThat you took so much time out in replying to all
my queries was really appreciatable.thanks againi will research more
on the win2k and linux options and get back in case i have any further
questions.
regards
rohit
Bernie <Bernie@weekend.com> wrote in message news:<C777346E6B60B275.EB7480837D1429DE.7668C84E0DF7CFCE@lp.airnews.net>...
> On 30 Jul 2002 04:31:23 -0700, rohit_tar@hotmail.com (roomantic)
> wrote:
>
> Right now the IT market is *soooo* much better for systems people,
> i.e. those that work with servers (NT, Win2k, UNIX, Linux, etc.) and
> enterprise applications (SAP, etc.) than it is for people working in
> networking.
>
> If you want to fight an uphill battle with hundreds, maybe thousands
> of skilled applicants for those *one* or *two* nonadvertised network
> engineering jobs in your area, then by all means get into networking
> with all the other thousands of laid off workers. If you want an
> easier career path for the near future than learn things like Win2k,
> or UNIX, etc.
>
> Note that I did not say get certified on Win2k or UNIX. The actual
> paper doesn't help you that much. It is the knowledge and experience
> that is the key. So learn them, and if you want to get certified
> after you learn, then go do that. But don't be surprised if your
> certification does not wow a manager if you tell that manager you have
> little experience with the thing you are certified on. That is why I
> say the paper is worth little. You would be better off without the
> paper asking the manager to have one of his senior guys test your
> knowledge on UNIX for instance. That way, you would be able to prove
> to him what you know rather than him thinking you are a paper-nobody.
>
> >hi,
> >Let me give u guys an intro bout me first.I am an engineering
> > graduate(Telecommunications)wo
rking as a tech support specialist from
> >the past 2 years,supporting cmputer hardware.I would like to take up a
> >certification to further my career prospects.I've heard a lot about
> >MSCE and the microsoft stream of certifications but have also heard
> >that there are too many of them nowadays and it doesnt hold much
> >water.
>
> That is true of any cert that has been around long enough. There are
> too many CCNAs out there too.
>
> >The Cisco line I've heard is better.
>
> If someone has told you that in the last few months, then they lied to
> you. Demand on the network side of things has dropped like a rock,
> yet the supply of people keeps increasing.
>
> >also linux is coming up in a
> >big way.
>
> I wouldn't know but am not surprised. Just a tip though, don't worry
> about which certification is "big" right now. You should attempt to
> look at the market prospects of the underlying products. IOW, if you
> see Linux gaining ground in the enterprise, then it is certain that
> demand for skills is going to grow. However, if you don't see Linux
> making inroads into server rooms, then you might just be wasting your
> time on something that your friend mistakenly told you is "hot."
>
> >Coming to the point,what certification do you guys think i should
> >pursue?I just want to make the right decision!
>
> By your statement, I think you might want to readjust your
> perspective. By asking what is the right decision, I assume that you
> are under the impression that there is a single correct answer to
> "what should I get into." The problem with that thinking is that it
> leads to a cyclical industry. For example, when the MCSE was "the
> 'right' way to go" that lead to tons of people going into systems work
> resulting in an eventual flood of low paid workers. So then all those
> people heard that Cisco certification was "the 'right' way to go", so
> they all got their CCNA resulting in a flood of low paid networking
> people. Now that those people cannot get jobs that pay anything, they
> are seeking the next promised land. Avoid the sheeple
> phenomenon--don't be one of the mass herds of people following what
> was hot yesterday (because yesterday is the truth of what they are
> chasing).
>
> The answer is that there is no one single answer. There are lots of
> skills that hold their value over time simply because there are no
> certification mills diluting their pool of people. If you want longer
> term career prospects, figure out what skills are not easy to obtain
> that are highly sought after. For example, I always remember SAP jobs
> listing at 125k in the local papers. How many SAP guys do you know?
> I don't know one. But I can promise that if there was a gold rush on
> SAP certification, the market for the skills would go into the
> crapper. However, I don't see that happening ever. So there is a
> potential "correct" answer for you. I can promise you that there are
> many, many other "correct" answers that will give you a good career.
> The only problem is getting skills in those areas...
>
> >Personally i am interested in CISCO but would like some expert
> >advice
> >thanks for all the help in advance and regards
> >rohit ghai
>
>
> --Bernie
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