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Home > Archive > alt.certification.cisco > June 2002 > Anyone still looking at the MCT?
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| Author |
Anyone still looking at the MCT?
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| Hi all,
I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs and
bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia, etc
etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more certs in
an uncertain job market.
Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
everything down.
Sean
Mentor Training Solutions
http://www.trainthetrainer.org
| |
|
| Yeah, I am.
1. I checked your site; price at $749 for two days is not bad, considering
the rip off some of these courses represent; still, since you can get MCSE
training for less than 300 a day _almost anywhere no matter what the list
price is_ the price is too high. High end pricing should be $329 per day
and average should be $299 per day. These classes tend to look like an MS
certified racket.
And I think the curriculum is to a great degree irrelevant,
devolving -DEVO - as it does from the idiotic education classes/departments
that are the mainstays of our bad secondary ed. system.
1. To actually teach someone how to run a network with NT or 2K, and,
simultaneously, prepare them for the Cert exams, is basically a
contradiction. 30 percent of the train/trainer class should be devoted to
resolving that contradiction.
3. The MOCs suck. The slide shows on the CDs for the most part suck. The
self prep books and the ACLS books (with the exception of the new, 218 book
by Craig Zacker) are the worst written books of any kind I have ever come
across (I was an English teacher, am a published writer, have been paid to
write film scripts, i.e., I know). 40 percent of the train/trainer course
should be devoted to overcoming that unnecessary impediment to both students
and teacher.
4. Most of the rest of the class should be devoted to planning, and how to
get the course set up (planned out) as swiftly as possible given the
dramatically, even sickeningly, different levels of knowledge and experience
blended into one class of students who, supposedly, already know more than a
bit about computers and networking.
Your remarks about the downward slide seem on target. As everyone says, it
will ascend again, but, will we have died before that?
If you can't teach or have doubts about it, forget it. It's harder than
running a network. Your bosses are still there, people in the company ask
you to do help desk stuff for which you are not paid, but the difference is
now you have to deal with the Public as well. Over and over again.
If you can teach, it's very satisfying. But if you can teach, I wonder if
IT is the way to go. It was a good route a few years ago, but right now,
you might be better off getting into Sales Training, Sensitivity Training,
or Team Dynamics/Leadership Workshops for Bullshit Guys, I mean, Executives.
As we know, networks are here to stay. But so are those things.
From what experience do these obnoxious opinions derive? Teaching English
at a University, teaching film and video production at an inner city
highschool; writing ads, scripts, slideshows, feature films; going broke
trying to produce feature films; being a low level PC tech, selling user
level PC training and network training, selling and designing networks for
mostly small, the occasional (smallish) mid sized business, being a sales
manager for sales of both those things, teaching user level computer
classes, A+ classes, and networking (MCSE track) classes.
Mike Flinn
"Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> Hi all,
>
> I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
and
> bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia, etc
> etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more certs
in
> an uncertain job market.
>
> Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> everything down.
>
> Sean
> Mentor Training Solutions
> http://www.trainthetrainer.org
>
>
>
>
| |
|
| You make some valid points about the MS Courses contradicting the Train the
Trainer Course.
I often sit in the course and think 'wow, if only every course were like
this' and think back to how dry the MOC's are.....and how can anyone take
what the TTT teaches and apply them to such 'follow the book' courses such
as the MOC's seem to direct you to do.
And, maybe that's a good thing, as you sit the course. Think about all
those courses you took, and think about who the good instructors were, and
what made them stand out from the others.
Luckily, the TTT that I organize teaches some stuff that you can take away
and use in any classroom situation. Especially our 7-steps to writing
training material.
Thanks for your comments,
Sean
"The difference between Training and Education? Would you rather your
son/daughter have sex ed, or sex training?"
"MF" <wallacestevens54@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:q1aT8.499650$Oa1.33548368@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Yeah, I am.
>
> 1. I checked your site; price at $749 for two days is not bad,
considering
> the rip off some of these courses represent; still, since you can get MCSE
> training for less than 300 a day _almost anywhere no matter what the list
> price is_ the price is too high. High end pricing should be $329 per day
> and average should be $299 per day. These classes tend to look like an
MS
> certified racket.
>
> And I think the curriculum is to a great degree irrelevant,
> devolving -DEVO - as it does from the idiotic education
classes/departments
> that are the mainstays of our bad secondary ed. system.
>
> 1. To actually teach someone how to run a network with NT or 2K, and,
> simultaneously, prepare them for the Cert exams, is basically a
> contradiction. 30 percent of the train/trainer class should be devoted to
> resolving that contradiction.
>
> 3. The MOCs suck. The slide shows on the CDs for the most part suck. The
> self prep books and the ACLS books (with the exception of the new, 218 boo
k
> by Craig Zacker) are the worst written books of any kind I have ever come
> across (I was an English teacher, am a published writer, have been paid
to
> write film scripts, i.e., I know). 40 percent of the train/trainer course
> should be devoted to overcoming that unnecessary impediment to both
students
> and teacher.
>
> 4. Most of the rest of the class should be devoted to planning, and how
to
> get the course set up (planned out) as swiftly as possible given the
> dramatically, even sickeningly, different levels of knowledge and
experience
> blended into one class of students who, supposedly, already know more than
a
> bit about computers and networking.
>
> Your remarks about the downward slide seem on target. As everyone says,
it
> will ascend again, but, will we have died before that?
>
> If you can't teach or have doubts about it, forget it. It's harder than
> running a network. Your bosses are still there, people in the company ask
> you to do help desk stuff for which you are not paid, but the difference
is
> now you have to deal with the Public as well. Over and over again.
>
> If you can teach, it's very satisfying. But if you can teach, I wonder
if
> IT is the way to go. It was a good route a few years ago, but right now,
> you might be better off getting into Sales Training, Sensitivity
Training,
> or Team Dynamics/Leadership Workshops for Bullshit Guys, I mean,
Executives.
> As we know, networks are here to stay. But so are those things.
>
> From what experience do these obnoxious opinions derive? Teaching English
> at a University, teaching film and video production at an inner city
> highschool; writing ads, scripts, slideshows, feature films; going broke
> trying to produce feature films; being a low level PC tech, selling user
> level PC training and network training, selling and designing networks for
> mostly small, the occasional (smallish) mid sized business, being a sales
> manager for sales of both those things, teaching user level computer
> classes, A+ classes, and networking (MCSE track) classes.
>
> Mike Flinn
>
>
>
>
> "Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
> news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
> and
> > bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia,
etc
> > etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more
certs
> in
> > an uncertain job market.
> >
> > Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> > everything down.
> >
> > Sean
> > Mentor Training Solutions
> > http://www.trainthetrainer.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| DiamondDan 2002-06-29, 7:25 am |
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his big watermellon eating lips and remove all doubt by saying
Why waste money and time
if you want to get certified don't waste your time studying...passs the
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my days studying ISP policies so I can brag that I 'flamed someone i dont
even know hahaha im so clever'
go for it kid
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.... MCSE braindumps Homepage. Sponsored link: www ... WebZIP, etc. on this
site
to grab all of the braindumps and browse them locally. Unfortunately ...
Description: braindumps for the MCSE exams, including the Windows 2000
exams.
Category: Computers > Software > ... > Windows > Windows NT > Training and
Certification
www.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX/
"Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> Hi all,
>
> I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
and
> bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia, etc
> etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more certs
in
> an uncertain job market.
>
> Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> everything down.
>
> Sean
> Mentor Training Solutions
> http://www.trainthetrainer.org
>
>
>
>
| |
| Jason Thomas 2002-06-29, 10:25 am |
| Sean,
Something that doesn't always get mentioned is the fee that one must now
pay to retain their MCT and the minimum hours one must teach. I was an MCT.
I put my status into holding (had to pay Microsoft for that as well) because
the market almost totally dried up in New York.
That probably has a big reason why no one wants the Train the Trainer
course.
That said, your curriculum for your course seems very different than when I
took TTT back in 1997. Our course didn't focus on Microsoft at all. It was
more of an over glorified public speaking course.
"Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> Hi all,
>
> I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
and
> bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia, etc
> etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more certs
in
> an uncertain job market.
>
> Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> everything down.
>
> Sean
> Mentor Training Solutions
> http://www.trainthetrainer.org
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
Jason,
Thank you for the comments. Yes, the new requirements will probably weed
alot of people out of the MCT program. On the up side of that I can see it
creating a more 'demand' than 'supply' environment, and thus possibly bring
things back inline.
Our course was developed by a person who has been doing training for many
years. He's the type of guy that goes in and gets to know a piece of
software inside and out, and THEN creates the training material/course for
that particular piece of software.
And in his TTT he shares his trade secrets on how to do that. I remember
when I first took his course, back in 1997 also, I was atonished and a bit
miffed at myself for wasting hours creating course materials when his method
was so easy.
Also, this was one of the very first courses approved by Microsoft. He
finetunes the course continously while still covering the 14 points as
mandated by Microsoft. That and the fact that he imparts almost 20 years
of training experience throughout the 2 days makes this a quality course.
Read the customer testimonials *obligatory self horn toot*
It seems that most markets have dried up, in many fields. So I guess my
real question is/was: Is this the time to add more letters after your name
in the hopes of using them in the future? Or, do you sit on your hands and
wait for the market to come back?
Regards,
Sean
Mentor Training Solutions
http://www.trainthetrainer.org
"Jason Thomas" <jthomas@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1tkT8.54863$5M2.2535456@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Sean,
>
> Something that doesn't always get mentioned is the fee that one must now
> pay to retain their MCT and the minimum hours one must teach. I was an
MCT.
> I put my status into holding (had to pay Microsoft for that as well)
because
> the market almost totally dried up in New York.
>
> That probably has a big reason why no one wants the Train the Trainer
> course.
>
> That said, your curriculum for your course seems very different than when
I
> took TTT back in 1997. Our course didn't focus on Microsoft at all. It
was
> more of an over glorified public speaking course.
>
>
> "Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
> news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
> and
> > bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia,
etc
> > etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more
certs
> in
> > an uncertain job market.
> >
> > Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> > everything down.
> >
> > Sean
> > Mentor Training Solutions
> > http://www.trainthetrainer.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Bernie 2002-06-29, 2:25 pm |
| On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:15:49 GMT, "Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org>
wrote:
>It seems that most markets have dried up, in many fields. So I guess my
>real question is/was: Is this the time to add more letters after your name
>in the hopes of using them in the future?
Well, that has never worked very well even when things were booming.
That is I am assuming you are talking about, for example, getting
Oracle certified (without any experience) in hopes that someone will
trust you with their critical business data while you play for the
first time on a real database. That rarely worked. Most companies
looked with extreme skepticism at candidates that had no experience to
back up whatever it was they were certified on. Of course sometimes
they would go ahead and hire the guy if there were no other qualified
candidates...
In this job market, if you don't have experience in XYZ, you don't get
the job working on XYZ, period, regardless of certs, period. I
personally don't get certs that I can't back up with experience on my
resume.
> Or, do you sit on your hands and
>wait for the market to come back?
If it is something I work with, I would get certified and make my
company pay for it. If it is something I don't work with, then fat
chance on getting my company to pay for it. That is just being smart
in regards to certifications, not "sitting on my hands".
....and frankly, I hope the "certification market" never comes back.
That was the worst thing that ever happened to the IT industry...
--Bernie
| |
| Fred Schulz 2002-06-29, 10:25 pm |
| To answer your question. As a former MCT (lost it due to no premium cert) I
use my VALID CTT which I received by becoming a CTT for trainer qulification
verification. I can't train as an MCT or use Microsoft official cirriculum
but I am still making good money as a trainer!
Also I have to ask...why all the pop up ads on your site? Not making enough
money as a trainer?
Just FYI , pop up ads drive people away.. IMO it's as bad as spam.
-Fred MCP(2K), CTT
"Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> Hi all,
>
> I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
and
> bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia, etc
> etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more certs
in
> an uncertain job market.
>
> Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> everything down.
>
> Sean
> Mentor Training Solutions
> http://www.trainthetrainer.org
>
>
>
>
| |
| Fred Schulz 2002-06-29, 10:25 pm |
| Man I hate it when the spell checker gets turned off
-Fred
"Fred Schulz" <spam@schulznet.com> wrote in message
news:wAvT8.53204$xy.17353566@twister.socal.rr.com...
> To answer your question. As a former MCT (lost it due to no premium cert)
I
> use my VALID CTT which I received by becoming a CTT for trainer
qulification
> verification. I can't train as an MCT or use Microsoft official
cirriculum
> but I am still making good money as a trainer!
>
> Also I have to ask...why all the pop up ads on your site? Not making
enough
> money as a trainer?
> Just FYI , pop up ads drive people away.. IMO it's as bad as spam.
>
>
>
> -Fred MCP(2K), CTT
>
>
>
> "Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
> news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the layoffs
> and
> > bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia,
etc
> > etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more
certs
> in
> > an uncertain job market.
> >
> > Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> > everything down.
> >
> > Sean
> > Mentor Training Solutions
> > http://www.trainthetrainer.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| Sorry Fred....was trying something new and didn't realize how irratating it
would turn out to be. *wipes the magical popup-begone solution on his
webpage*
There...all better. Those were not 'paying' popups, was simply trying out
some traffic generating stuff. And yes, can never make enough
money....*insert evil manical laughter here*
BTW, thanks for visiting the page, and the comments.
Sean
Mentor Training Solutions
http://www.trainthetrainer.org
"Fred Schulz" <spam@schulznet.com> wrote in message
news:VBvT8.53208$xy.17355691@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Man I hate it when the spell checker gets turned off
>
> -Fred
>
> "Fred Schulz" <spam@schulznet.com> wrote in message
> news:wAvT8.53204$xy.17353566@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > To answer your question. As a former MCT (lost it due to no premium
cert)
> I
> > use my VALID CTT which I received by becoming a CTT for trainer
> qulification
> > verification. I can't train as an MCT or use Microsoft official
> cirriculum
> > but I am still making good money as a trainer!
> >
> > Also I have to ask...why all the pop up ads on your site? Not making
> enough
> > money as a trainer?
> > Just FYI , pop up ads drive people away.. IMO it's as bad as spam.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Fred MCP(2K), CTT
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sean" <news*@*trainthetrainer.org> wrote in message
> > news:ux7T8.340985$352.40116@sccrnsc02...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I run a Train the Trainer course here in Colorado. With all the
layoffs
> > and
> > > bankruptcies lately from companies as huge as MCI/Worldcomm, Adelphia,
> etc
> > > etc, I was wondering if people had confidence enough to go for more
> certs
> > in
> > > an uncertain job market.
> > >
> > > Things seem to flow downhill and all these mass layoffs seem to slow
> > > everything down.
> > >
> > > Sean
> > > Mentor Training Solutions
> > > http://www.trainthetrainer.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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