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Home > Archive > alt.certification.a-plus > August 2003 > Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)
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Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)
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| Arkady 2003-08-29, 3:26 pm |
| Dear Ghost, let me tell you a couple of words.
You are describing very right things, yet many of things have escaped your
attention.
>
> Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
> qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.
Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance, I am
MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate to my
skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question: Am
I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
> Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
> country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
> encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
> anyone here.. lol
They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a plenty of
reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my 4th
language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken? What
should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the language.
Catch-22...
BTW, if you don't know this, I'll tell you one thing from my experience. I
can freely read and write, I can even say... But I am experiencing great
difficulties with listening. English pronunciation greatly differs from my
native. Should pass some time in english environment. So, be not so flat!
Respectful,
Arkady
PS I am looking for _any_ I.T. work indeed and can't find any. Why? Because
I have no American experience. Am I (with my Master degree in Computer
Science) sillier (less sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible) of native
high-school-graduate with A+ certificate? I doubt...
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2003-08-29, 9:26 pm |
| On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:40:01 GMT, "Arkady" <arkady_m@ukr.net> wrote:
>Dear Ghost, let me tell you a couple of words.
>
>You are describing very right things, yet many of things have escaped your
>attention.
>
>>
>> Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
>> qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.
>
>Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance, I am
>MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate to my
>skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question: Am
>I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
I can think of 2 things that will replace the A+...experience with the
basics of PC repair, or it not being a set-in-stone requirement.
Universities often have challenge exams, where they allow a person to
take a course if they pass this exam, without having the normal
prerequisite.
Tom
| |
| Ghost 2003-08-29, 11:25 pm |
| In article <56N3b.1026$db2.886@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, "Arkady"
<arkady_m@ukr.net> wrote:
> Dear Ghost, let me tell you a couple of words.
>
> You are describing very right things, yet many of things have escaped your
> attention.
>
> >
> > Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
> > qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.
>
> Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance, I am
> MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate to my
> skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question: Am
> I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.
>
> > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
> > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
> > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
> > anyone here.. lol
>
> They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a plenty of
> reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my 4th
> language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken? What
> should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
> working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the language.
> Catch-22...
It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.
How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.
>
> BTW, if you don't know this, I'll tell you one thing from my experience. I
> can freely read and write, I can even say... But I am experiencing great
> difficulties with listening. English pronunciation greatly differs from my
> native. Should pass some time in english environment. So, be not so flat!
>
> Respectful,
> Arkady
>
> PS I am looking for _any_ I.T. work indeed and can't find any. Why? Because
> I have no American experience. Am I (with my Master degree in Computer
> Science) sillier (less sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible) of native
> high-school-graduate with A+ certificate? I doubt...
Perfect example of what I just said- the lack of command of the English
language- as we understand it here in America- is not a measure of
intelligence. I am quite sure what ever country you come from has fairly
high standards for a Masters Degree. That means you must possess a
modicum of intelligence to reach that level. However, your admitted
inability to fully master the English language will be a hinderence to you
until either you do master it, or until you go to someplace where your
native language is spoken freely.
I do wish you luck.
| |
| Arkady 2003-08-30, 12:25 am |
| I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
Let me try to explain.
> > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,
I am
> > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate
to my
> > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:
Am
> > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
>
> No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
> skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
> other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
> job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
> qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
> a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.
If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
naturally, but it is an another story...
[colo
r=darkred]
> > > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to[/color]
this[
color=darkred]
> > > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want[/color]
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
> > > anyone here.. lol
> >
> > They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a[/color]
plenty of
> > reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my
4th
> > language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken?
What
> > should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
> > working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the
language.
> > Catch-22...
>
> It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
> that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
> mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
> their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
> communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
> and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
> for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.
>
> How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
> Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
> desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
> English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.
>
Concerning phone customer support you are 100% right! I will not argue with
you. But! Regarding understanding of tasks statement for your employees or
simple conversations -- could you be a little more patient and spend a
couple minutes to clarify or say the phrase again? As I told before, there
is catch-22. They have no chances to improve their languages without
native-speaking environment. Let the salary will be small, probation --
larger... Give us a chance.
Anyway, thank you.
I hope my energies will bear me fruit.
Arkady
PS I am from Ukraine (50-mln-country in Europe  ))
| |
|
| You have some good points Arkady, however MCSE, CNNA etc, does not actually
mean that a person is even remotely familiar as to what is inside of a PC or
server housing. I recently was contracted to assist with an upgrade of a
network from 9x machines to win2k desktops to match the new servers being
installed. The System Admin who was MCSE NT4 & Win2000 knew all of the
minimum specs for Win2k and knew routing TCP/IP security monitoring etc,
inside and out, however the last machine he had actually worked with hands
on was a 486 with ISA cards. His knowledge of modern architecture was
rather lacking, mainly due to the organisation he used to work for had 4 PC
techs who did all the hands on stuff. I also have a friend who had to go
overseas to sit some exams? for his doctorate as there was not someone
suitably qualified in New Zealand to administer them. He can tell me in
minute detail how every part of a system works and could probably design
many of the parts, but alas when he built his new machine he just could not
get it to recognise the hard drive when using cable select - a quick call
to a dummy like me had him on the right track immediately. has to do with
skills and experience vs theory and knowledge.
| |
|
| In article <_sV3b.1079$qz1.8@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, "Arkady"
<arkady_m@ukr.net> wrote:
> I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
> Let me try to explain.
>
> > > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,
> I am
> > > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate
> to my
> > > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:
> Am
> > > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
> >
> > No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
> > skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
> > other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
> > job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
> > qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
> > a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.
>
> If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
> complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
> on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
> Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
> should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
> general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
> naturally, but it is an another story...
>
I will not say MCSE is harder- but it is certainly different. I have had
applicants that were MCSE that knew nothing about PC architecture, how to
install drivers, or do diagnostics. There is much more to PC repair than
hooking up a monitor, LPT1, or changing resolution. While the A+
certification is not a requirement fr hiring in my shop, it is preferred.
Someone without any certs can get hired just as easy as someone with
certs, so long as they demonstrate an ability to do the work, or the
ability to learn it real fast.
[colo
r=darkred]
> > > > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to
> this
> > > > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want
> to
> > > > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
> > > > anyone here.. lol
> > >
> > > They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a
> plenty of
> > > reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my
> 4th
> > > language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken?
> What
> > > should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
> > > working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the
> language.
> > > Catch-22...
> >
> > It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
> > that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
> > mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
> > their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
> > communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
> > and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
> > for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.
> >
> > How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
> > Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
> > desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
> > English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.
> >
>
> Concerning phone customer support you are 100% right! I will not argue with
> you. But! Regarding understanding of tasks statement for your employees or
> simple conversations -- could you be a little more patient and spend a
> couple minutes to clarify or say the phrase again? As I told before, there
> is catch-22. They have no chances to improve their languages without
> native-speaking environment. Let the salary will be small, probation --
> larger... Give us a chance.
>[/color]
English does not have to be perfect or without accent- it needs to be
understandable. I had two applicants that barely spoke English- they
spoke sp poorly they dod not understand questions I was asking them in the
interview- such as who certfied one of them in Win95 after one of them
told me he was (there is no legitimate Win95 certification).
As a side note- I had a female applicant- drop dead gorgeous- with a
beautiful accent- also from Ukraine. She had no experience and no
training whatsoever. She knew literally nothing of PCs. But she was so
damned gorgeous I would love to have hired her. Well, except she would
not be able to do the work, and my wife would have divorced me... lol She
would have been major trouble!!! lol
| |
| Tom MacIntyre 2003-08-30, 3:27 pm |
| On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:10:34 GMT, "Arkady" <arkady_m@ukr.net> wrote:
>I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
>Let me try to explain.
>
>> > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,
>I am
>> > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate
>to my
>> > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:
> Am
>> > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?
>>
>> No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
>> skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
>> other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
>> job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
>> qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
>> a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.
>
>If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
>complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
>on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
>Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
>should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
>general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
>naturally, but it is an another story...
The poblem here is that you are confusing degrees of difficulty with
areas of skill/knowledge. Most surgeons can't repair their own cars,
and most/all auto technicians can't perform surgery. When I was doing
consumer electronics repair a few years back, we would get a call
early every summer to go to a certain retired doctor's house to
reprogram his VCR's, TV's, remote controls, etc. "nuff said, I'd
say...
Tom
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"Tom MacIntyre" <tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hqs1lvgse4knjvhjubhebdpj0
c54r3fglj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:10:34 GMT, "Arkady" <arkady_m@ukr.net> wrote:
>
> The poblem here is that you are confusing degrees of difficulty with
> areas of skill/knowledge. Most surgeons can't repair their own cars,
> and most/all auto technicians can't perform surgery. When I was doing
> consumer electronics repair a few years back, we would get a call
> early every summer to go to a certain retired doctor's house to
> reprogram his VCR's, TV's, remote controls, etc. "nuff said, I'd
> say...
With this you're into another part of service calls entirely. A person
could be unsurpassed in technical skills, but their people skills, including
their ability to communicate and decipher what a person's actually asking of
them, is a large part of whether or not you get repeat business.
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