alt.certification.a-plus - Help !! Win98SE screwed up

Author

Help !! Win98SE screwed up

Barry Watzman

2003-05-24, 8:23 pm

Help !! Win98SE screwed up

This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.

Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.

When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.

I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
instant (less than one second).

From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
and the drive (C

is intact and undamaged, there is no "Chkdsk" damage.

Booting .... even to a command promp ... takes a LONG time (4-6 minutes).

I'll add that this is a 200 gig hard drive, and of course 98 can't
access anything beyond 137 gigs, but the last 80 gigs is an NTFS
partition, so that's not a factor anyway. Plus, it was working before
the update.

I tried restoring an older registry copy with scanreg, that did not help
either. The Start menu folder is intact with all of the icons present.

Does anyone have any ideas before I have to do something really drastic?

Thanks,
Barry Watzman
Watzman@neo.rr.com

Ghost

2003-05-24, 9:23 pm

In article <3ED015E9.6070806@neo.rr.com>, Barry Watzman
<Watzman@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> Help !! Win98SE screwed up
>
> This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
> including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
>
> Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
>
> When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
> desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
> manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
> and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
>
> I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
> instant (less than one second).
>
> From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
> is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
> and the drive (C

is intact and undamaged, there is no "Chkdsk" damage.
>
> Booting .... even to a command promp ... takes a LONG time (4-6 minutes).
>
> I'll add that this is a 200 gig hard drive, and of course 98 can't
> access anything beyond 137 gigs, but the last 80 gigs is an NTFS
> partition, so that's not a factor anyway. Plus, it was working before
> the update.
>
> I tried restoring an older registry copy with scanreg, that did not help
> either. The Start menu folder is intact with all of the icons present.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas before I have to do something really drastic?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry Watzman
> Watzman@neo.rr.com

This happens occasionally... I know this might seem silly, but from a
boot floppy, run scandisk /surface /autofix.

Sometimes the HDD gets hosed during some of these updates. Doing this
might fix it. If not, reinstall Win98SE over itself.

Good luck!

2003-05-24, 10:23 pm

"Ghost" <user@user.com> wrote in message
news:user-2405032156150001@1.0.0.3...
> In article <3ED015E9.6070806@neo.rr.com>, Barry Watzman
> <Watzman@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Help !! Win98SE screwed up
> >
> > This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
> > including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
> >
> > Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
> >
> > When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
> > desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
> > manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
> > and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
> >
> > I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
> > instant (less than one second).
> >
> > From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
> > is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
> > and the drive (C

is intact and undamaged, there is no "Chkdsk" damage.
> >
> > Booting .... even to a command promp ... takes a LONG time (4-6
minutes).
> >
> > I'll add that this is a 200 gig hard drive, and of course 98 can't
> > access anything beyond 137 gigs, but the last 80 gigs is an NTFS
> > partition, so that's not a factor anyway. Plus, it was working before
> > the update.
> >
> > I tried restoring an older registry copy with scanreg, that did not help
> > either. The Start menu folder is intact with all of the icons present.
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas before I have to do something really drastic?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Barry Watzman
> > Watzman@neo.rr.com
>
>
>
> This happens occasionally... I know this might seem silly, but from a
> boot floppy, run scandisk /surface /autofix.
>
> Sometimes the HDD gets hosed during some of these updates. Doing this
> might fix it. If not, reinstall Win98SE over itself.
>
> Good luck!

Boot to the command promtpt only and type in scanreg /restore and choose the
registry entry previous to your updates. That should help.

Barry Watzman

2003-05-24, 11:23 pm

I tried that (scanreg/restore, using a file from earlier this month), it
did not help.

This is NOT a registry issue. I didn't post this here but the last
lines of bootlog.txt are:

Terminate = User
Terminate = Query Drivers
EndTerminate = Query Drivers
Terminate = Unload Network
EndTerminate = Unload Network
Terminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = User
Terminate = KERNEL
Terminate = RIT
EndTerminate = RIT
Terminate = Win32
EndTerminate = Win32
EndTerminate = KERNEL

The system is coming up and then immediately shutting itself down, for
reasons that I don't understand. There is no Wininit.ini file. I don't
know why the system is terminating itself, but it's not coming from the
registry.

Ghost

2003-05-24, 11:23 pm

In article <3ED03CDB.2050601@neo.rr.com>, Barry Watzman
<Watzman@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I tried that (scanreg/restore, using a file from earlier this month), it
> did not help.
>
> This is NOT a registry issue. I didn't post this here but the last
> lines of bootlog.txt are:
>
> Terminate = User
> Terminate = Query Drivers
> EndTerminate = Query Drivers
> Terminate = Unload Network
> EndTerminate = Unload Network
> Terminate = Reset Display
> EndTerminate = Reset Display
> EndTerminate = User
> Terminate = KERNEL
> Terminate = RIT
> EndTerminate = RIT
> Terminate = Win32
> EndTerminate = Win32
> EndTerminate = KERNEL
>
> The system is coming up and then immediately shutting itself down, for
> reasons that I don't understand. There is no Wininit.ini file. I don't
> know why the system is terminating itself, but it's not coming from the
> registry.

If the HDD has problems where the system files reside, that could be the
cause of your problems... thats why sometimes a good surface scan works...

This does happen on occasion... we have seen it a few times in the shop...

Barry Watzman

2003-05-24, 11:23 pm

No, it's NOT a registry problem, and NO, it's not a hard drive problem
(ran Chkdsk, Scandisk and Norton .... the hard drive is fine).

Ghost wrote:
> In article <3ED03CDB.2050601@neo.rr.com>, Barry Watzman
> <Watzman@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I tried that (scanreg/restore, using a file from earlier this month), it
>>did not help.
>>
>>This is NOT a registry issue. I didn't post this here but the last
>>lines of bootlog.txt are:
>>
>>Terminate = User
>>Terminate = Query Drivers
>>EndTerminate = Query Drivers
>>Terminate = Unload Network
>>EndTerminate = Unload Network
>>Terminate = Reset Display
>>EndTerminate = Reset Display
>>EndTerminate = User
>>Terminate = KERNEL
>>Terminate = RIT
>>EndTerminate = RIT
>>Terminate = Win32
>>EndTerminate = Win32
>>EndTerminate = KERNEL
>>
>>The system is coming up and then immediately shutting itself down, for
>>reasons that I don't understand. There is no Wininit.ini file. I don't
>>know why the system is terminating itself, but it's not coming from the
>>registry.
>
>
>
> If the HDD has problems where the system files reside, that could be the
> cause of your problems... thats why sometimes a good surface scan works...
>
> This does happen on occasion... we have seen it a few times in the shop...

jumbojim12345REMOVETHIS@lycos.com

2003-05-25, 1:23 am

sounds like file corruption to me; restore from your backup.

you do have a backup?

;-}

On Sun, 25 May 2003 01:09:22 GMT, Barry Watzman <Watzman@neo.rr.com>
wrote:

>Help !! Win98SE screwed up
>
>This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
>including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
>
>Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
>
>When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
>desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
>manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
>and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
>
>I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
>instant (less than one second).
>
> From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
>is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
>and the drive (C

is intact and undamaged, there is no "Chkdsk" damage.
>
>Booting .... even to a command promp ... takes a LONG time (4-6 minutes).
>
>I'll add that this is a 200 gig hard drive, and of course 98 can't
>access anything beyond 137 gigs, but the last 80 gigs is an NTFS
>partition, so that's not a factor anyway. Plus, it was working before
>the update.
>
>I tried restoring an older registry copy with scanreg, that did not help
>either. The Start menu folder is intact with all of the icons present.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas before I have to do something really drastic?
>
>Thanks,
>Barry Watzman
>Watzman@neo.rr.com

Navin R. Johnson

2003-05-25, 3:23 am

On Sun, 25 May 2003 01:09:22 GMT, Barry Watzman <Watzman@neo.rr.com>
wrote:

That's a strange one. Maybe one of the system files got hosed? You could
boot to a Win98SE startup disk then re-sys the C-drive. That would
restore the system files but might also screw up the dual boot
capability. The same thing would apply if you were to re-run the Win98SE
upgrade, which is what I would try if I was faced with your dilemma.....
Just out of curiosity, what happens when you try running it in Safe Mode
- same blank desktop?? Another thing, you said it takes 4-6 minutes just
to get to the command prompt, what is it doing all that time? Is the
hard drive making any noise and is the HDD LED flashing? Also, if you
boot to a floppy disk, how long does it take to get to A:\> prompt? The
normal time?

NRJ

>Help !! Win98SE screwed up
>
>This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
>including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
>
>Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
>
>When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
>desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
>manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
>and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
>
>I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
>instant (less than one second).
>
> From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
>is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
>and the drive (C

is intact and undamaged, there is no "Chkdsk" damage.
>
>Booting .... even to a command promp ... takes a LONG time (4-6 minutes).
>
>I'll add that this is a 200 gig hard drive, and of course 98 can't
>access anything beyond 137 gigs, but the last 80 gigs is an NTFS
>partition, so that's not a factor anyway. Plus, it was working before
>the update.
>
>I tried restoring an older registry copy with scanreg, that did not help
>either. The Start menu folder is intact with all of the icons present.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas before I have to do something really drastic?
>
>Thanks,
>Barry Watzman
>Watzman@neo.rr.com

The new phone books are here!

Barry Watzman

2003-05-25, 12:23 pm

Got my problem fixed:

A Microsoft MVP on one of the boards suggesting resetting the shell in
system.ini from Explorer to progman to let progman come up (Progman –
the old windows 3.1 Program Manager. Have not seen it or used it in
years, although I have known that it was still available). Not
withstanding that the progman desktop, like the explorer desktop, was
totally blank, I was able to use the File / Run command to reinstall IE6
using IE6Setup.exe, which I have in my download directory. Once this
was done, Windows booted normally (after resetting the shell back to
explorer). There were still some errors, MSTIME.DLL was missing (???),
which I replaced from another system, and Direct Sound was messed up,
which I fixed by reinstalling DirectX 9.0a from the redistribution file
that I have. I reran Windows Update to reapply the latest IE6 security
patches, and all is fine now.

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Help !! Win98SE screwed up
>
> This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE installation,
> including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
>
> Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
>
> When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally blank
> desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete, task
> manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing are MDM
> and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
>
> I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for an
> instant (less than one second).
>
> From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This system
> is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP normally,
> and the drive (C

2003-05-25, 8:23 pm

Barry,

Interesting. This happened to me with 98 first ed, a few years ago
while updating Internet Explorer with an automated download and update
from MS site. First Ed was well patched and updated and reliable,
fast and good - never a problem. Then, after the auto
download/install, blooey: no desktop. I ran scanreg and scandisk, no
joy, tried extracting explorer, successful, but no joy, then started
examining windows files for their dates and extracting newly changed
files in hopes of getting the corrupted one or two. After replacing
twenty or so files, I figured my intuition was not equal to the task
of figuring out which MS file(s) an MS program had corrupted, and
simply reinstalled over top. It took almost four hours ( it was a
well filled computer; setup read and reinstalled every setting) and
had many a nervous minute, but went perfectly. Even kept most of the
Win98 updated file. Of course, I wasn't dual booting on that
machine, so it was easier. The only thing I didn't try, and have
since regretted not trying, was deleting the swap file and rebooting.
Did you try that?

Glad it worked out-

Mike
"Barry Watzman" <Watzman@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3ED0F006.2050608@neo.rr.com...
> Got my problem fixed:
>
> A Microsoft MVP on one of the boards suggesting resetting the shell
in
> system.ini from Explorer to progman to let progman come up
(Progman –
> the old windows 3.1 Program Manager. Have not seen it or used it in
> years, although I have known that it was still available). Not
> withstanding that the progman desktop, like the explorer desktop,
was
> totally blank, I was able to use the File / Run command to reinstall
IE6
> using IE6Setup.exe, which I have in my download directory. Once
this
> was done, Windows booted normally (after resetting the shell back to
> explorer). There were still some errors, MSTIME.DLL was missing
(???),
> which I replaced from another system, and Direct Sound was messed
up,
> which I fixed by reinstalling DirectX 9.0a from the redistribution
file
> that I have. I reran Windows Update to reapply the latest IE6
security
> patches, and all is fine now.
>
> Barry Watzman wrote:
> > Help !! Win98SE screwed up
> >
> > This eveing I did a major "Windows Update" of my Win98SE
installation,[colo
r=green]
> > including major updates to IE, DirectX 9.0a and .net.
> >
> > Now it won't boot, not even in safe mode.
> >
> > When I try to boot, what ends up happening is that I get a totally[/color]
blank

> > desktop, no icons, no task bar at all. I can ctrl-alt-delete,
task
> > manager comes up, I can shut down (the only applications showing
are MDM
> > and NProtect). But I obviously can't do anything useful.
> >
> > I should mention that during booting, the task bar does appear for
an
> > instant (less than one second).
> >
> > From Command Prompt, scanreg says that the registry is ok. This
system
> > is dual boot (Win98SE on C:, XP on D

, I can still boot XP
normally,
> > and the drive (C

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