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Home > Archive > microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd > July 2003 > Are MS Certifications worth it?
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| Author |
Are MS Certifications worth it?
|
|
|
| Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do Microsoft
certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
Thanks,
VM
| |
| Kristopher Johnson 2003-07-20, 8:24 pm |
| I've only had my MCAD and MCSD certifications for a few weeks, so maybe my
experience is suspect, but having those certifications on my resume didn't
seem to attract any extra attention from recruiters or prospective
employers. (One interviewer snickered about my certification, suggesting
that it didn't mean anything but that he wouldn't hold it against me.)
I have seen a few job postings that required MCSDs, but they are pretty
rare. There are a few employers out there that like to see Microsoft logos,
but most employers put a much larger priority on commercial experience and
very little on certifications.
-- Kris Johnson
"VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
Microsoft
> certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> Thanks,
> VM
>
>
| |
| Guy Cox 2003-07-20, 8:24 pm |
| It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too much
junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a Formula
One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load, and
closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses all
the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then the
manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality it
was an ignorant developer.
2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of a
ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and what's
the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get sent
back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
Just my $.02
Guy
"VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
Microsoft
> certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> Thanks,
> VM
>
>
| |
| John S 2003-07-21, 5:23 am |
| Definitely not. Just look at all those so could ms partners that are going
down to pan.
"VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
Microsoft
> certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> Thanks,
> VM
>
>
| |
| Ertugrul Uysal 2003-07-21, 8:24 am |
| Even if that very same developer did not obtain an MCAD untill now, he can,
anytime he likes; as he has the two sufficient qualities for getting an MCAD
1) can read English, (but not necessarily understand)
2) can open, close connections; knows that forms load, etc.
Plus he even uses a viewstate, so he can get some extra points.
What makes you think that an MCAD will do any better?
"Guy Cox" <gcoxjr-$nospam$-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u9QiptxTDHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
> development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too much
> junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a
Formula
> One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
>
> 1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load,
and
> closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses
all
> the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then
the
> manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality it
> was an ignorant developer.
>
> 2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of a
> ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
> viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and what's
> the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get
sent
> back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Guy
>
> "VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> Microsoft
> > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > Thanks,
> > VM
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| I had an MCSD back in 2000 and it had no value in the job market so I quit
taking the exams for a while. I'm currently working thru the dotnet exams
primarily because it's a good way to make sure you learn something in a
broad range of topics. I do it on the cheap - - self study and a few
discounted books. My biggest expense is the transcender which I feel helps
more than the books.
Most hiring managers hold little esteem for certifications by HR people
might screen out your resume if they've gotten 10 others that DO have certs
on them.
If you're truly working as an independent, you will probably be selling to
business managers who know nothing at all about certs and don't care that
much if the system is written in C# or java or whatever. They just care
about the overall solution, how much it costs and when you can have it done.
"VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
Microsoft
> certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> Thanks,
> VM
>
>
| |
| Jamie 2003-07-21, 10:24 am |
| I've seen people write code like too Guy. In the project i am
currently working, someone wrote a method in C# to do some string
manipulation in 20 lines that could be replaced in 1 line.....its all
about experience.
it brings up the question of who is the bigger idiot.....
a) the crappy developer who doesnt have a clue and bumbles along quite
happy to be earning his pay check
b) the technical lead who doesnt notice/care/do anything about it
c) the incompetent management, who think that because this guys CV has
lots of interesting stuff on it and is looking for 5K less than "Joe
CodeGuru" is the man to hire
d) incompetent personnel people who think that the Web Programmer is
the perfect person to go to a DBA role (I've seen it happen!!)
e) The customer for buying a solution from a company like that!
I know who is going to be most upset when deadlines don't get met!
"Guy Cox" <gcoxjr-$nospam$-@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<u9QiptxTDHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
> development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too much
> junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a Formula
> One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
>
> 1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load, and
> closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses all
> the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then the
> manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality it
> was an ignorant developer.
>
> 2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of a
> ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
> viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and what's
> the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get sent
> back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Guy
>
> "VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> Microsoft
> > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > Thanks,
> > VM
> >
> >
| |
| Danut 2003-07-21, 11:24 am |
| Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd:22535
It is even worse when these guys act as designers/architects! Of course they
thing they are perfect and they know everything. They keep argue about how
wonderful is to keep a connection open forever.
The worst part is that the last time they opened a book was the last
millemium.
Danut
"Guy Cox" <gcoxjr-$nospam$-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u9QiptxTDHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
> development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too much
> junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a
Formula
> One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
>
> 1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load,
and
> closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses
all
> the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then
the
> manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality it
> was an ignorant developer.
>
> 2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of a
> ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
> viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and what's
> the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get
sent
> back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Guy
>
> "VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> Microsoft
> > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > Thanks,
> > VM
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| John S 2003-07-21, 12:23 pm |
| > it brings up the question of who is the bigger idiot.....
> a) the crappy developer who doesnt have a clue and bumbles along quite
> happy to be earning his pay check
> b) the technical lead who doesnt notice/care/do anything about it
> c) the incompetent management, who think that because this guys CV has
> lots of interesting stuff on it and is looking for 5K less than "Joe
> CodeGuru" is the man to hire
> d) incompetent personnel people who think that the Web Programmer is
> the perfect person to go to a DBA role (I've seen it happen!!)
> e) The customer for buying a solution from a company like that!
All of them.
The problem is there are too many idiots out there and too many bigger
idiots that employ them. Lets hope the 'cull' in worthless idiots continues.
"Jamie" <j.mo@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ce580daa.0307210605.32803540@posting.google.com...
> I've seen people write code like too Guy. In the project i am
> currently working, someone wrote a method in C# to do some string
> manipulation in 20 lines that could be replaced in 1 line.....its all
> about experience.
>
> it brings up the question of who is the bigger idiot.....
>
> a) the crappy developer who doesnt have a clue and bumbles along quite
> happy to be earning his pay check
> b) the technical lead who doesnt notice/care/do anything about it
> c) the incompetent management, who think that because this guys CV has
> lots of interesting stuff on it and is looking for 5K less than "Joe
> CodeGuru" is the man to hire
> d) incompetent personnel people who think that the Web Programmer is
> the perfect person to go to a DBA role (I've seen it happen!!)
> e) The customer for buying a solution from a company like that!
>
> I know who is going to be most upset when deadlines don't get met!
>
>
>
>
>
> "Guy Cox" <gcoxjr-$nospam$-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<u9QiptxTDHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> > It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
> > development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too
much
> > junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a
Formula
> > One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
> >
> > 1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load,
and
> > closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses
all
> > the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then
the
> > manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality
it
> > was an ignorant developer.
> >
> > 2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of
a
> > ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
> > viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and
what's
> > the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get
sent
> > back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
> >
> > Just my $.02
> >
> > Guy
> >
> > "VM" <None> wrote in message
news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... [colo
r=darkred]
> > > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> > Microsoft
> > > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > > Thanks,
> > > VM
> > >
> > >[/color]
| |
| Michael 2003-07-22, 1:23 pm |
| Microsoft Certified Partners (not sure if all levels) require a certain
number of MCSDs working for them, so that might be those companies looking
for MCSDs.
I agree with Kristopher. On the other hand, the original poster asked the
question related to independent consultants. In that case, I would guess
MCSD/MCSD.NET might have more value than compared to an employee (the other
type  ). MCAD might not be that useful to an independent consultant (i.e.
not enough).
In the end, it is the learning journey to MCAD/MCSD that is the fun part.
Otherwise, Microsoft certifications are virtually worthless. Maybe Microsoft
should make the exams twice as hard, and then make them free; just charge it
to marketting Microsoft.
"Kristopher Johnson" <junk@kristopherjohnson.net> wrote in message
news:X0GSa.95459$GL4.26848@rwcrnsc53...
> I've only had my MCAD and MCSD certifications for a few weeks, so maybe my
> experience is suspect, but having those certifications on my resume didn't
> seem to attract any extra attention from recruiters or prospective
> employers. (One interviewer snickered about my certification, suggesting
> that it didn't mean anything but that he wouldn't hold it against me.)
>
> I have seen a few job postings that required MCSDs, but they are pretty
> rare. There are a few employers out there that like to see Microsoft
logos,
> but most employers put a much larger priority on commercial experience and
> very little on certifications.
>
> -- Kris Johnson
>
>
> "VM" <None> wrote in message news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> Microsoft
> > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > Thanks,
> > VM
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Michael 2003-07-22, 1:23 pm |
| Maybe they don't open books anymore because we are in the new millenium.
They access Books24/7 online. Just kidding
"Danut" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eht2YR5TDHA.1912@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> It is even worse when these guys act as designers/architects! Of course
they
> thing they are perfect and they know everything. They keep argue about how
> wonderful is to keep a connection open forever.
>
> The worst part is that the last time they opened a book was the last
> millemium.
>
> Danut
>
> "Guy Cox" <gcoxjr-$nospam$-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u9QiptxTDHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > It should be against the law for a developer to accept payment for .Net
> > development without holding at least an MCAD.. I've just run into too
much
> > junk code already. It's like putting a visually impared driver in a
> Formula
> > One racing car and have them try to drive through Manhattan.
> >
> > 1) One developer I saw created and opened a DB connection at form load,
> and
> > closed the connection at the same time he closed the form. - This tosses
> all
> > the connection management work MSFT has done right out the window. Then
> the
> > manager and users blames the platform or the framework when in reality
it
> > was an ignorant developer.
> >
> > 2) Same developer stored an entire class instance into the viewstate of
a
> > ASPX page... probably takes twice as long to decrypt/decode from the
> > viewstate as it would to create the object from scratch... --- and
what's
> > the browser supposed to so with those 20K or so worth of bits that get
> sent
> > back to the browser in the hidden field where the viewstate lives.
> >
> > Just my $.02
> >
> > Guy
> >
> > "VM" <None> wrote in message
news:uVoYQ$wTDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... [colo
r=darkred]
> > > Since I'm trying to become an independent software consultant, do
> > Microsoft
> > > certifications help attract clients? And are they worth it?
> > > Thanks,
> > > VM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>[/color]
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