microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd - MCSD Online certification

Author

MCSD Online certification

Gary Nelson

2003-05-30, 2:23 pm

I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the IT field. I have
been given a package by the state where I can train for an MCSD
certification. However, the majority of the classes are online. I am new to
programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-175 and 70-100.
Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the training went right
over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and was not successful in
passing. However, I did much better than I thought I would. Can anyone
offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve the certification,
and understand programming? I have recently been hired as an entry level
database administrator, and am working a great deal with Access 2000.

Kline Sphere

2003-05-30, 3:23 pm

My own view is that studying for microsoft certification is not the
best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop software. For a
start the, the exams do not teach you how to program only how to use
the language within microsoft technologies.

You would be far better of doing a software related degree or at least
some form of general software development course, which teaches you
good software development practices and techniques. During which time,
there is no reason why you cannot learn more about Visual Basic, C# or
whatever.

On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
<garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:

>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the IT field. I have
>been given a package by the state where I can train for an MCSD
>certification. However, the majority of the classes are online. I am new to
>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-175 and 70-100.
>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the training went right
>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and was not successful in
>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I would. Can anyone
>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve the certification,
>and understand programming? I have recently been hired as an entry level
>database administrator, and am working a great deal with Access 2000.
>

Shailendra Sharma

2003-05-30, 6:23 pm

Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that could
separate you from them.....

>-----Original Message-----
>My own view is that studying for microsoft certification
is not the
>best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
software. For a
>start the, the exams do not teach you how to program only
how to use
>the language within microsoft technologies.
>
>You would be far better of doing a software related
degree or at least
>some form of general software development course, which
teaches you
>good software development practices and techniques.
During which time,
>there is no reason why you cannot learn more about Visual
Basic, C# or
>whatever.
>
>
>On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
>
>>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the
IT field. I have
>>been given a package by the state where I can train for
an MCSD
>>certification. However, the majority of the classes are
online. I am new to
>>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-
175 and 70-100.
>>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
training went right

>>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
was not successful in
>>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
would. Can anyone
>>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve
the certification,[col
or=green]
>>and understand programming? I have recently been hired[/color]
as an entry level

>>database administrator, and am working a great deal with
Access 2000.
>>

Fluker

2003-05-31, 6:23 am

>A formal education, degree is
> very necessary to become a good software engineer.
Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can never
be a a good software engineer ? Generalizing this way shows
what is your mental aptitude. Although formal education is
good addition, it does not mean that anyone that doesn't have
it is a not a "good software engineer".

> There are far too many programmers out there who DO
> NOT HAVE A BACKGROUND in CS
And there are far too many who have this background but can
do nothing more then writing hello world proggys.

I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual intelligence+experience
and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it, I don't
have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.

Flu.

"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:036901c32700$b5fb3b90$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
> very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
> are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
> BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that could
> separate you from them.....
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >My own view is that studying for microsoft certification
> is not the
> >best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
> software. For a
> >start the, the exams do not teach you how to program only
> how to use
> >the language within microsoft technologies.
> >
> >You would be far better of doing a software related
> degree or at least
> >some form of general software development course, which
> teaches you
> >good software development practices and techniques.
> During which time,
> >there is no reason why you cannot learn more about Visual
> Basic, C# or
> >whatever.
> >
> >
> >On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
> ><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the
> IT field. I have
> >>been given a package by the state where I can train for
> an MCSD
> >>certification. However, the majority of the classes are
> online. I am new to

> >>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-
> 175 and 70-100.
> >>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
> training went right
> >>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
> was not successful in

> >>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
> would. Can anyone
> >>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve
> the certification,[co
lor=darkred]
> >>and understand programming? I have recently been hired
> as an entry level
> >>database administrator, and am working a great deal with
> Access 2000.
> >>[/color]

Kline Sphere

2003-05-31, 7:23 am

>Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can never
>be a a good software engineer ?

I suggest not.. However it 'should' prove to prospective employees's
you have the aptitude to become one.

It will certainly help someone who is looking to get a foot hold in
the IT profession. These day's (or even past day's), it will be very
hard for anyone without some kind of formal IT qualification (such as
a degree), to get that first job.

>I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual intelligence+experience
>and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it, I don't
>have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.

Correct. However, how do you get real world experience without job and
how do you get a job without real world experience?

The most important step in any profession is getting that first job
which gives you real world experience.

With 6+ years of experience would mean you started out at the
beginning of the dot com boom. At that time (mid/late 90's) there was
a shortage of IT skills and personnel. If you were starting out now,
you would find much harder to get that first role, than what you found
back when you started out. It does not mean you do/did not have the
aptitude to become a software engineer, just that with 200+ CV's to go
through, how could you have proven that to whoever was filtering the
CV's that you did?

On Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:43 +0530, "Fluker" <Flu@diespammers.com>
wrote:

>>A formal education, degree is
>> very necessary to become a good software engineer.
>Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can never
>be a a good software engineer ? Generalizing this way shows
>what is your mental aptitude. Although formal education is
>good addition, it does not mean that anyone that doesn't have
>it is a not a "good software engineer".
>
>> There are far too many programmers out there who DO
>> NOT HAVE A BACKGROUND in CS
>And there are far too many who have this background but can
>do nothing more then writing hello world proggys.
>
>I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual intelligence+experience
>and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it, I don't
>have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.
>
>Flu.
>
>"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:036901c32700$b5fb3b90$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
>> very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
>> are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
>> BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that could
>> separate you from them.....
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >My own view is that studying for microsoft certification
>> is not the
>> >best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
>> software. For a
>> >start the, the exams do not teach you how to program only
>> how to use
>> >the language within microsoft technologies.
>> >
>> >You would be far better of doing a software related
>> degree or at least
>> >some form of general software development course, which
>> teaches you
>> >good software development practices and techniques.
>> During which time,
>> >there is no reason why you cannot learn more about Visual
>> Basic, C# or
>> >whatever.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
>> ><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the
>> IT field. I have
>> >>been given a package by the state where I can train for
>> an MCSD
>> >>certification. However, the majority of the classes are
>> online. I am new to
>> >>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-
>> 175 and 70-100.
>> >>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
>> training went right
>> >>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
>> was not successful in
>> >>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
>> would. Can anyone
>> >>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve
>> the certification,
>> >>and understand programming? I have recently been hired
>> as an entry level
>> >>database administrator, and am working a great deal with
>> Access 2000.
>> >>
>

Fluker

2003-05-31, 9:23 am

Agree.
"Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
news:914hdvoundcijs7cvkqa56smn
293k3mp2q@4ax.com...
> >Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can never
> >be a a good software engineer ?
>
> I suggest not.. However it 'should' prove to prospective employees's
> you have the aptitude to become one.
>
> It will certainly help someone who is looking to get a foot hold in
> the IT profession. These day's (or even past day's), it will be very
> hard for anyone without some kind of formal IT qualification (such as
> a degree), to get that first job.
>
> >I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual
intelligence+experience
> >and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it, I don't
> >have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.
>
> Correct. However, how do you get real world experience without job and
> how do you get a job without real world experience?
>
> The most important step in any profession is getting that first job
> which gives you real world experience.
>
> With 6+ years of experience would mean you started out at the
> beginning of the dot com boom. At that time (mid/late 90's) there was
> a shortage of IT skills and personnel. If you were starting out now,
> you would find much harder to get that first role, than what you found
> back when you started out. It does not mean you do/did not have the
> aptitude to become a software engineer, just that with 200+ CV's to go
> through, how could you have proven that to whoever was filtering the
> CV's that you did?
>
> On Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:43 +0530, "Fluker" <Flu@diespammers.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>A formal education, degree is
> >> very necessary to become a good software engineer.
> >Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can never
> >be a a good software engineer ? Generalizing this way shows
> >what is your mental aptitude. Although formal education is
> >good addition, it does not mean that anyone that doesn't have
> >it is a not a "good software engineer".
> >
> >> There are far too many programmers out there who DO
> >> NOT HAVE A BACKGROUND in CS
> >And there are far too many who have this background but can
> >do nothing more then writing hello world proggys.
> >
> >I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual
intelligence+experience
> >and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it, I don't
> >have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.
> >
> >Flu.
> >
> >"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:036901c32700$b5fb3b90$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
> >> very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
> >> are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
> >> BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that could
> >> separate you from them.....
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >My own view is that studying for microsoft certification
> >> is not the
> >> >best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
> >> software. For a
> >> >start the, the exams do not teach you how to program only
> >> how to use
> >> >the language within microsoft technologies.
> >> >
> >> >You would be far better of doing a software related
> >> degree or at least
> >> >some form of general software development course, which
> >> teaches you
> >> >good software development practices and techniques.
> >> During which time,
> >> >there is no reason why you cannot learn more about Visual
> >> Basic, C# or
> >> >whatever.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
> >> ><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into the
> >> IT field. I have
> >> >>been given a package by the state where I can train for
> >> an MCSD
> >> >>certification. However, the majority of the classes are
> >> online. I am new to
> >> >>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class, 70-
> >> 175 and 70-100.
> >> >>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
> >> training went right
> >> >>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
> >> was not successful in
> >> >>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
> >> would. Can anyone
> >> >>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to recieve
> >> the certification,
> >> >>and understand programming? I have recently been hired
> >> as an entry level
> >> >>database administrator, and am working a great deal with
> >> Access 2000.
> >> >>
> >
>

Shailendra Sharma

2003-05-31, 10:23 am

Fluker,
Sorry to have hurt your feelings, was certainly not my
intention. I apologize. My remarks about good software
engineer are wrong, I agree. I think that going through
those 4yrs of education does show mental discipline and as
Kline put it Aptitude. Ask yourself honestly... Would it
not be better if your resume had a bachelors or a masters
in CS along with 6 yrs of experience? It is just my
opinion that when it comes to selecting candidates for a
position, having an formal education/degree does make a
difference. It may not be(should not be) the sole criteria
for selection, but hiring managers do look at education,
else people would not include it in their resumes/CV's...
-shailendra

>-----Original Message-----
>>A formal education, degree is
>> very necessary to become a good software engineer.
>Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can
never
>be a a good software engineer ? Generalizing this way
shows
>what is your mental aptitude. Although formal education is
>good addition, it does not mean that anyone that doesn't
have
>it is a not a "good software engineer".
>
>> There are far too many programmers out there who DO
>> NOT HAVE A BACKGROUND in CS
>And there are far too many who have this background but
can
>do nothing more then writing hello world proggys.
>
>I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual
intelligence+experience
>and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it,
I don't
>have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.
>
>Flu.
>
>"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> news:036901c32700$b5fb3b90$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
>> very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
>> are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
>> BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that
could

>> separate you from them.....
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >My own view is that studying for microsoft
certification[colo
r=green]
>> is not the
>> >best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
>> software. For a
>> >start the, the exams do not teach you how to program[/color]
only
>> how to use
>> >the language within microsoft technologies.
>> >
>> >You would be far better of doing a software related
>> degree or at least
>> >some form of general software development course, which
>> teaches you
>> >good software development practices and techniques.
>> During which time,
>> >there is no reason why you cannot learn more about
Visual
>> Basic, C# or
>> >whatever.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
>> ><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into
the
>> IT field. I have
>> >>been given a package by the state where I can train
for
>> an MCSD
>> >>certification. However, the majority of the classes
are
>> online. I am new to
>> >>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class,
70-
>> 175 and 70-100.
>> >>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
>> training went right
>> >>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
>> was not successful in
>> >>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
>> would. Can anyone
>> >>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to
recieve
>> the certification,
>> >>and understand programming? I have recently been
hired

>> as an entry level
>> >>database administrator, and am working a great deal
with
>> Access 2000.
>> >>

Fluker

2003-05-31, 2:23 pm

yes shailendra,

You are right. I had this resentment of not having done my
mca, or done any BE in computers. But i thought you are
saying only people with background can be good software
engineers. I agree with both you and kline. I would certainly
have loved to have cs background, but I had to take on family
responsiblities at an early age, so did not have resources to
do such course. Once got job, never looked back and now
I have to struggle my way through to become project manager,
if i would have been a cs grad, i wouldn't have let inferior programmer
to get ahead of me!
"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09ad01c32783$37109ae0$a30
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Fluker,
> Sorry to have hurt your feelings, was certainly not my
> intention. I apologize. My remarks about good software
> engineer are wrong, I agree. I think that going through
> those 4yrs of education does show mental discipline and as
> Kline put it Aptitude. Ask yourself honestly... Would it
> not be better if your resume had a bachelors or a masters
> in CS along with 6 yrs of experience? It is just my
> opinion that when it comes to selecting candidates for a
> position, having an formal education/degree does make a
> difference. It may not be(should not be) the sole criteria
> for selection, but hiring managers do look at education,
> else people would not include it in their resumes/CV's...
> -shailendra
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>A formal education, degree is
> >> very necessary to become a good software engineer.
> >Does this means that anyone who doesn't have this can
> never
> >be a a good software engineer ? Generalizing this way
> shows
> >what is your mental aptitude. Although formal education is
> >good addition, it does not mean that anyone that doesn't
> have
> >it is a not a "good software engineer".
> >
> >> There are far too many programmers out there who DO
> >> NOT HAVE A BACKGROUND in CS
> >And there are far too many who have this background but
> can
> >do nothing more then writing hello world proggys.
> >
> >I am afraid in the end it falls down to individual
> intelligence+experience
> >and not university you graduated from. As you guessed it,
> I don't
> >have cs background, but I have 6+ yrs of expereince.
> >
> >Flu.
> >
> >"Shailendra Sharma" <spshailendra@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> > news:036901c32700$b5fb3b90$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Totally agree with Kline. A formal education, degree is
> >> very necessary to become a good software engineer. There
> >> are far too many programmers out there who DO NOT HAVE A
> >> BACKGROUND in CS, and your degree is one thing that
> could
> >> separate you from them.....
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >My own view is that studying for microsoft
> certification[col
or=darkred]
> >> is not the
> >> >best way for someone who wants to learn how to develop
> >> software. For a
> >> >start the, the exams do not teach you how to program
> only
> >> how to use
> >> >the language within microsoft technologies.
> >> >
> >> >You would be far better of doing a software related
> >> degree or at least
> >> >some form of general software development course, which
> >> teaches you
> >> >good software development practices and techniques.
> >> During which time,
> >> >there is no reason why you cannot learn more about
> Visual
> >> Basic, C# or
> >> >whatever.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:37:38 -0400, "Gary Nelson"
> >> ><garyn@integratedbook.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>I recently made a career change from Purchasing into
> the
> >> IT field. I have
> >> >>been given a package by the state where I can train
> for
> >> an MCSD
> >> >>certification. However, the majority of the classes
> are
> >> online. I am new to
> >> >>programming, and have already taken the 70-176 class,
> 70-
> >> 175 and 70-100.
> >> >>Unfortunately, being new to programming, much of the
> >> training went right
> >> >>over my head. I have taken the 70-176 exam twice and
> >> was not successful in
> >> >>passing. However, I did much better than I thought I
> >> would. Can anyone
> >> >>offer any advise as to what I can do in order to
> recieve
> >> the certification,
> >> >>and understand programming? I have recently been
> hired
> >> as an entry level
> >> >>database administrator, and am working a great deal
> with
> >> Access 2000.
> >> >>
>[/color]

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