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Home > Archive > microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd > April 2003 > Any better info?
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| Someone told me to check out this news group for details on Microsoft
certification. It seems that the vast majority of the posters to this news
group should not be allowed near an IT environment and would be, at the very
least, classed as incompetent people are 'let go'.
Anyway two questions: -
1) Are there any meaningful discussion groups around (not necessarily usenet
groups) on the subject.
2) Do these certifications actual mean anything? Most people (if not all)
where I work think they are meaningless, and also seem to be considered a
joke by our clients becouse they are so easy! We (the employees of the
company) are made to do them because the company is an Microsoft gold
partner and need X number of 'certs' to keep that status. I can't stand
where I'm working, but things the way they are I have to tow the line until
I find something else.
JC
| |
| Mehran Nikoo 2003-04-14, 8:23 am |
| Hi JC,
See inline notes.
--
Mehran Nikoo
MCSD, MCSD for .NET
PS: I didn't get your point about the posters to this newsgroup though 
"JC" <JC@megacorp[1].net> wrote in message
news:#wgNC4nADHA.2396@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Someone told me to check out this news group for details on Microsoft
> certification. It seems that the vast majority of the posters to this news
> group should not be allowed near an IT environment and would be, at the
very
> least, classed as incompetent people are 'let go'.
>
> Anyway two questions: -
>
> 1) Are there any meaningful discussion groups around (not necessarily
usenet
> groups) on the subject.
As far as Microsoft certification is concerned, these newsgroups are the
best ones. If you are looking for information on how to get certified, you
can visit Microsoft certification site at
http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/default.asp
>
> 2) Do these certifications actual mean anything? Most people (if not all)
> where I work think they are meaningless, and also seem to be considered a
> joke by our clients becouse they are so easy! We (the employees of the
> company) are made to do them because the company is an Microsoft gold
> partner and need X number of 'certs' to keep that status. I can't stand
> where I'm working, but things the way they are I have to tow the line
until
> I find something else.
It well depends on your definition of "mean anything". To become certified,
you need to pass exams, and to pass exams, you need to study. This way you
learn something that you didn't know before.
Also you can be more confident in your knowledge and skills in the related
areas.
There are so many people out there who seek certification to get a job or
increase their rates and then start complaining about not getting what they
wanted.
If you want to know how Microsoft thinks about certification:
Speaking at the MCP TechMentor conference in New Orleans on Thursday, April
10, he said:
"If you're looking at Microsoft certification as a way to earn more money,
you're likely to be disappointed." If, however, you want to use it as a
"personal tool for career advancement," Ziob said, it can help.
http://www.mcpmag.com/news/
>
> JC
>
>
| |
|
| Thank you.
> It well depends on your definition of "mean anything". To become
certified,
> you need to pass exams, and to pass exams, you need to study. This way you
> learn something that you didn't know before.
> Also you can be more confident in your knowledge and skills in the related
> areas.
I guess my view of a certification process is somewhat different. I was
imagining a more rigours method than simple passing a series of multi-choice
questions.
From what the other guys and girls tell me they are very easy to pass and do
not attempt to 'test' one's ability to produce quality software. I've just
tried some 'transcender' software, which if that is all the exams are based
on the exams (to me) seem pointless.
"Mehran Nikoo" <mohmehran@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OWfr8goADHA.33376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hi JC,
>
>
> See inline notes.
>
> --
> Mehran Nikoo
> MCSD, MCSD for .NET
>
> PS: I didn't get your point about the posters to this newsgroup though
>
>
> "JC" <JC@megacorp[1].net> wrote in message
> news:#wgNC4nADHA.2396@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Someone told me to check out this news group for details on Microsoft
> > certification. It seems that the vast majority of the posters to this
news
> > group should not be allowed near an IT environment and would be, at the
> very
> > least, classed as incompetent people are 'let go'.
> >
> > Anyway two questions: -
> >
> > 1) Are there any meaningful discussion groups around (not necessarily
> usenet
> > groups) on the subject.
> As far as Microsoft certification is concerned, these newsgroups are the
> best ones. If you are looking for information on how to get certified, you
> can visit Microsoft certification site at
> http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/default.asp
>
> >
> > 2) Do these certifications actual mean anything? Most people (if not
all)
> > where I work think they are meaningless, and also seem to be considered
a
> > joke by our clients becouse they are so easy! We (the employees of the
> > company) are made to do them because the company is an Microsoft gold
> > partner and need X number of 'certs' to keep that status. I can't stand
> > where I'm working, but things the way they are I have to tow the line
> until
> > I find something else.
>
> It well depends on your definition of "mean anything". To become
certified,
> you need to pass exams, and to pass exams, you need to study. This way you
> learn something that you didn't know before.
> Also you can be more confident in your knowledge and skills in the related
> areas.
>
> There are so many people out there who seek certification to get a job or
> increase their rates and then start complaining about not getting what
they
> wanted.
>
> If you want to know how Microsoft thinks about certification:
> Speaking at the MCP TechMentor conference in New Orleans on Thursday,
April
> 10, he said:
> "If you're looking at Microsoft certification as a way to earn more money,
> you're likely to be disappointed." If, however, you want to use it as a
> "personal tool for career advancement," Ziob said, it can help.
>
> http://www.mcpmag.com/news/
>
> >
> > JC
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Mehran Nikoo 2003-04-14, 12:23 pm |
| You are right, but this way of testing is the only practical method.
Otherwise more effort needs to be put into this matter, which will result in
a higher cost.
Another thing is that not all of the exams are pretty easy to pass. By
looking at notes from other guys here you can see that many experienced guys
have failed an exam (like 70-300) multiple times. In such an exam you will
see different kinds of questions, and not multiple choice only.
--
Mehran Nikoo
MCSD, MCSD for .NET
"JC" <.> wrote in message news:u9pwACqADHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Thank you.
>
> > It well depends on your definition of "mean anything". To become
> certified,
> > you need to pass exams, and to pass exams, you need to study. This way
you
> > learn something that you didn't know before.
> > Also you can be more confident in your knowledge and skills in the
related
> > areas.
>
> I guess my view of a certification process is somewhat different. I was
> imagining a more rigours method than simple passing a series of
multi-choice
> questions.
>
> From what the other guys and girls tell me they are very easy to pass and
do
> not attempt to 'test' one's ability to produce quality software. I've just
> tried some 'transcender' software, which if that is all the exams are
based
> on the exams (to me) seem pointless.
>
> "Mehran Nikoo" <mohmehran@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:OWfr8goADHA.33376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > Hi JC,
> >
> >
> > See inline notes.
> >
> > --
> > Mehran Nikoo
> > MCSD, MCSD for .NET
> >
> > PS: I didn't get your point about the posters to this newsgroup though
> >
> >
> > "JC" <JC@megacorp[1].net> wrote in message
> > news:#wgNC4nADHA.2396@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > Someone told me to check out this news group for details on Microsoft
> > > certification. It seems that the vast majority of the posters to this
> news
> > > group should not be allowed near an IT environment and would be, at
the
> > very
> > > least, classed as incompetent people are 'let go'.
> > >
> > > Anyway two questions: -
> > >
> > > 1) Are there any meaningful discussion groups around (not necessarily
> > usenet
> > > groups) on the subject.
> > As far as Microsoft certification is concerned, these newsgroups are the
> > best ones. If you are looking for information on how to get certified,
you
> > can visit Microsoft certification site at
> > http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/default.asp
> >
> > >
> > > 2) Do these certifications actual mean anything? Most people (if not
> all)
> > > where I work think they are meaningless, and also seem to be
considered
> a
> > > joke by our clients becouse they are so easy! We (the employees of the
> > > company) are made to do them because the company is an Microsoft gold
> > > partner and need X number of 'certs' to keep that status. I can't
stand
> > > where I'm working, but things the way they are I have to tow the line
> > until
> > > I find something else.
> >
> > It well depends on your definition of "mean anything". To become
> certified,
> > you need to pass exams, and to pass exams, you need to study. This way
you
> > learn something that you didn't know before.
> > Also you can be more confident in your knowledge and skills in the
related
> > areas.
> >
> > There are so many people out there who seek certification to get a job
or
> > increase their rates and then start complaining about not getting what
> they
> > wanted.
> >
> > If you want to know how Microsoft thinks about certification:
> > Speaking at the MCP TechMentor conference in New Orleans on Thursday,
> April
> > 10, he said:
> > "If you're looking at Microsoft certification as a way to earn more
money,
> > you're likely to be disappointed." If, however, you want to use it as a
> > "personal tool for career advancement," Ziob said, it can help.
> >
> > http://www.mcpmag.com/news/
> >
> > >
> > > JC
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
|
"Mehran Nikoo" <mohmehran@msn.com> wrote in message
news:u$uwOiqADHA.2368@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> You are right, but this way of testing is the only practical method.
Which makes the process rather pointless.
> Otherwise more effort needs to be put into this matter, which will result
in
> a higher cost.
So what if the process costs more! If the process actually means something
and is recognised at the end. The 'professional' qualifications I have
involved more that answering a few simple questions.
Why not have an approach like that of the Prince II certification, i.e.
simpler multi-choice exam, followed by a proper written exam that does prove
whether or not the candidate understands the subject(s) matter???
The mcsd process seems more geared towards producing as many 'certified'
people as possible, without many of those people actually understanding what
software development is all about - quantity before quality = madness!!!
> Another thing is that not all of the exams are pretty easy to pass. By
> looking at notes from other guys here you can see that many experienced
guys
> have failed an exam (like 70-300) multiple times. In such an exam you will
> see different kinds of questions, and not multiple choice only.
I took the three C# exams and the '70-300' last week. Nowhere did any of the
C# exams attempt to 'test' you on how to author/engineer/develop software.
The questions were a simple multi-choice format, which in the way they were
put together allowed for a more than educated guess if one did not know the
answer, many questions seemed to be repeated across the exams (especially
the ado related one). The '70-300' exam attempted to test more on a
development process but only to a very basic level; also the answers were
totally bias towards microsoft! Another point, why no scores? Does Microsoft
conceder someone who passes by one mark/point the equal of someone who gets
a maximum score? - Mad!!!
Still I got five days off (including today to do the sql server exam), so I
won't complain; but the certification process is rather meaningless in the
real world (outside microsoft 'gold' partners, that is!!).
JC
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