|
Home > Archive > microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd > February 2003 > Get a Grip
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
|
|
|
| I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do you
all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
whether you passed the beta or not?
I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you people
have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
Come on grow up.
| |
| Wade Wegner 2003-02-10, 10:23 am |
| Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like that.
Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think that posting such a
message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
I suggest you take your own advice.
"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do you
> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
> whether you passed the beta or not?
>
> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
> think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>
> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you people
> have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>
> Come on grow up.
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 10:23 am |
| Well I agree with you, I feel you will be flamed by many in this group
(as if you care!).
Microsoft's use of beta products (including exams),as a great market
ploy that works very well. Microsoft as a leading manufacture of
software has helped turn the driving force of software, from business
oriented needs to technology oriented, which they have control of. By
marking companies and especially people (developers, dba's etc) feel
important and special helps achieve this. Look at the response to dot
net, many companies could not wait to start building systems with beta
releases of the software. These decisions are often made by developers
who simple want to get the latest 'buzz' words on their cv.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:16 -0800, "Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote:
>I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do you
>all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
>whether you passed the beta or not?
>
>I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
>think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
>taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
>assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>
>I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you people
>have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
>worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>
>Come on grow up.
| |
|
| No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
mostly seen complaints about the process and
communication. I don't understand why the participation
level if the systems is so poor.
>-----Original Message-----
>Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like that.
>
>Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think that
posting such a
>message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
>
>I suggest you take your own advice.
>
>
>"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do
you
>> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
>> whether you passed the beta or not?
>>
>> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
>> think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
>> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
>> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>>
>> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
people
>> have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
>> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>>
>> Come on grow up.
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Wade Wegner 2003-02-10, 10:23 am |
| Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the beta exam, but I know
that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully> become an MCSD.NET.
I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the certification process has
been long and arduous for me.
It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the enthusiasm of others,
which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people are excited and
acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
> mostly seen complaints about the process and
> communication. I don't understand why the participation
> level if the systems is so poor.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like that.
> >
> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think that
> posting such a
> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
> >
> >I suggest you take your own advice.
> >
> >
> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do
> you
> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
> >>
> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
> >>
> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
> people
> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
> >>
> >> Come on grow up.
> >
> >
> >.
> >
| |
|
| I hope to be flamed. I do care. This is the kind of
conversation that is worth having. Why is it that
Microsoft has such power over our feeling of worth?
When I take these tests I thinkg to myself as I am taking
it, not what would I do, but what would Microsoft want me
to too. This is particularly true for the architecture
tests.
So my point is if we are succesful at what we do, why are
we so bent on MS's approval?
>-----Original Message-----
>Well I agree with you, I feel you will be flamed by many
in this group
>(as if you care!).
>
>Microsoft's use of beta products (including exams),as a
great market
>ploy that works very well. Microsoft as a leading
manufacture of
>software has helped turn the driving force of software,
from business
>oriented needs to technology oriented, which they have
control of. By
>marking companies and especially people (developers,
dba's etc) feel
>important and special helps achieve this. Look at the
response to dot
>net, many companies could not wait to start building
systems with beta
>releases of the software. These decisions are often made
by developers
>who simple want to get the latest 'buzz' words on their
cv.
>
>On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:16 -0800, "Harv"
<nota@chance.com> wrote:
>
>>I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do
you
>>all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
>>whether you passed the beta or not?
>>
>>I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
>>think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
>>taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
>>assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>>
>>I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
people
>>have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
>>worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>>
>>Come on grow up.
>
>.
>
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 10:23 am |
| >No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
>big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
>many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>mostly seen complaints about the process and
>communication. I don't understand why the participation
>level if the systems is so poor.
It is only human nature. But to put things into prospective, try
waiting for the results of Cancer test.
Communication is the problem of the company (microsoft) who really do
not care about what you, me or any individual thinks.
| |
|
| IF affects me because I also am in the certification
process and have been since 1999. I cary many
certifications and have gone through this several times.
However, I do not like how Microsoft handles changes in
the program. Especially in the area of communication. So
when I see people act like they do in this news group, I
fell it only makes the situation worse. Microsoft sees
that they can run the show however they wish, and people
will follow. The power is in the hands of the
developers. We need to use that power effectivley. That
is how it affects me and you as well.
>-----Original Message-----
>Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the beta
exam, but I know
>that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully>
become an MCSD.NET.
>I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the
certification process has
>been long and arduous for me.
>
>It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the
enthusiasm of others,
>which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people
are excited and
>acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
>
>"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
>> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
>> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>> mostly seen complaints about the process and
>> communication. I don't understand why the participation
>> level if the systems is so poor.
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like that.
>> >
>> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think
that
>> posting such a
>> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
>> >
>> >I suggest you take your own advice.
>> >
>> >
>> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why
do
>> you
>> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a
deal[
color=darkred]
>> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
>> >>
>> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I[/color]
don't
>> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not
worth
>> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
>> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>> >>
>> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
>> people
>> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
>> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>> >>
>> >> Come on grow up.
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Roger 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| And why was it again that you have taken the beta, or for that matter, got
invited to take the exam in the first place?
Looks to me that you're not new at looking for 'approval' from Microsoft
yourself.
Roger.
"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:053301c2d120$1de12c10$300
1280a@phx.gbl...
> I hope to be flamed. I do care. This is the kind of
> conversation that is worth having. Why is it that
> Microsoft has such power over our feeling of worth?
>
> When I take these tests I thinkg to myself as I am taking
> it, not what would I do, but what would Microsoft want me
> to too. This is particularly true for the architecture
> tests.
>
> So my point is if we are succesful at what we do, why are
> we so bent on MS's approval?
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Well I agree with you, I feel you will be flamed by many
> in this group
> >(as if you care!).
> >
> >Microsoft's use of beta products (including exams),as a
> great market
> >ploy that works very well. Microsoft as a leading
> manufacture of
> >software has helped turn the driving force of software,
> from business
> >oriented needs to technology oriented, which they have
> control of. By
> >marking companies and especially people (developers,
> dba's etc) feel
> >important and special helps achieve this. Look at the
> response to dot
> >net, many companies could not wait to start building
> systems with beta
> >releases of the software. These decisions are often made
> by developers
> >who simple want to get the latest 'buzz' words on their
> cv.
> >
> >On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:16 -0800, "Harv"
> <nota@chance.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do
> you
> >>all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a deal
> >>whether you passed the beta or not?
> >>
> >>I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
> >>think I will do another. Only because It was not worth
> >>taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
> >>assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
> >>
> >>I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
> people
> >>have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
> >>worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
> >>
> >>Come on grow up.
> >
> >.
> >
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:18:59 -0800, "Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote:
>I hope to be flamed. I do care. This is the kind of
>conversation that is worth having. Why is it that
>Microsoft has such power over our feeling of worth?
It is good point of interest.
>When I take these tests I thinkg to myself as I am taking
>it, not what would I do, but what would Microsoft want me
>to too. This is particularly true for the architecture
>tests.
Microsoft want you, your clients and/or employer to use their
products, the same is true for Borland, Oracle etc.
>So my point is if we are succesful at what we do, why are
>we so bent on MS's approval?
I don't think people do seek approval. In the UK ms cert mean very
little. Employers look primarily for experience, given the way ms
certs have devalued over the past 4/5 years who can blame them!
| |
|
| "Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
> mostly seen complaints about the process and
> communication. I don't understand why the participation
> level if the systems is so poor.
Harv, this is how newsgroups work. This one is actually relatively useful
because the majority of posts are directly related to its intended topic. I
bet most of us have lives nearly as rich and fulfilling as yours, but this
isn't the place to flaunt or even discuss that. Don't the fanatics here ever
talk about anything else? Probably, but thank goodness, most don't do it
here.
The newsgroup is about MCSD certification, and the only exam that's
specifically required for the latest version goes live today and many are
finally getting results for it. It's not often that there's such a big event
so critical to the focus of a newsgroup, so while there may appear to be
many 'obsessed' posters, I bet it will quiet down pretty quickly.
| |
|
| I agree mostly. But I do not agree that the power is in
the hands of Microsoft. The power is in the hands of the
developers. When we act this why we squander this power
and are no better than Pavlov's Dogs.
>-----Original Message-----
>>No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
>>big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>>found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
>>many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>>mostly seen complaints about the process and
>>communication. I don't understand why the participation
>>level if the systems is so poor.
>
>It is only human nature. But to put things into
prospective, try
>waiting for the results of Cancer test.
>
>Communication is the problem of the company (microsoft)
who really do
>not care about what you, me or any individual thinks.
>.
>
| |
| Wade Wegner 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| I agree with you Harv.
However, I think you're more likely to have constructive and beneficial
converesation if you don't say things such as "I read these posts and it
makes me sick. Don't you people have any real work to do?"
That's all.
"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:00da01c2d120$a2d37180$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
> IF affects me because I also am in the certification
> process and have been since 1999. I cary many
> certifications and have gone through this several times.
>
> However, I do not like how Microsoft handles changes in
> the program. Especially in the area of communication. So
> when I see people act like they do in this news group, I
> fell it only makes the situation worse. Microsoft sees
> that they can run the show however they wish, and people
> will follow. The power is in the hands of the
> developers. We need to use that power effectivley. That
> is how it affects me and you as well.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the beta
> exam, but I know
> >that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully>
> become an MCSD.NET.
> >I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the
> certification process has
> >been long and arduous for me.
> >
> >It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the
> enthusiasm of others,
> >which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people
> are excited and
> >acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
> >
> >"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> > news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> >> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
> >> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
> >> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
> >> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
> >> mostly seen complaints about the process and
> >> communication. I don't understand why the participation
> >> level if the systems is so poor.
> >>
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like that.
> >> >
> >> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think
> that
> >> posting such a
> >> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
> >> >
> >> >I suggest you take your own advice.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> >> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why
> do
> >> you
> >> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a
> deal
> >> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
> >> >>
> >> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I
> don't
> >> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not
> worth
> >> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
> >> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
> >> >>
> >> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
> >> people
> >> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
> >> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
> >> >>
> >> >> Come on grow up.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >
| |
| Roger 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| You really have a chip on your shoulder.
Did you fail your exam by any chance?
"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:00e301c2d121$39bf27b0$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
> I agree mostly. But I do not agree that the power is in
> the hands of Microsoft. The power is in the hands of the
> developers. When we act this why we squander this power
> and are no better than Pavlov's Dogs.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
> >>big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
> >>found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
> >>many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
> >>mostly seen complaints about the process and
> >>communication. I don't understand why the participation
> >>level if the systems is so poor.
> >
> >It is only human nature. But to put things into
> prospective, try
> >waiting for the results of Cancer test.
> >
> >Communication is the problem of the company (microsoft)
> who really do
> >not care about what you, me or any individual thinks.
> >.
> >
| |
|
| I took the beta because it completes my MCSD.NET and have
allways declined beta's in the past. I was interested in
the process. I was invited probably because I have been
an MCSD since 1999. Ad an MCDBA and MCSE too boot.
Afraid I don't understand your comment about looking for
approval.
>-----Original Message-----
>And why was it again that you have taken the beta, or for
that matter, got
>invited to take the exam in the first place?
>
>Looks to me that you're not new at looking for 'approval'
from Microsoft
>yourself.
>
>Roger.
>
>"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:053301c2d120$1de12c10$300
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> I hope to be flamed. I do care. This is the kind of
>> conversation that is worth having. Why is it that
>> Microsoft has such power over our feeling of worth?
>>
>> When I take these tests I thinkg to myself as I am
taking
>> it, not what would I do, but what would Microsoft want
me
>> to too. This is particularly true for the architecture
>> tests.
>>
>> So my point is if we are succesful at what we do, why
are
>> we so bent on MS's approval?
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Well I agree with you, I feel you will be flamed by
many
>> in this group
>> >(as if you care!).
>> >
>> >Microsoft's use of beta products (including exams),as
a
>> great market
>> >ploy that works very well. Microsoft as a leading
>> manufacture of
>> >software has helped turn the driving force of software,
>> from business
>> >oriented needs to technology oriented, which they have
>> control of. By
>> >marking companies and especially people (developers,
>> dba's etc) feel
>> >important and special helps achieve this. Look at the
>> response to dot
>> >net, many companies could not wait to start building
>> systems with beta
>> >releases of the software. These decisions are often
made
>> by developers
>> >who simple want to get the latest 'buzz' words on their
>> cv.
>> >
>> >On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:16 -0800, "Harv"
>> <nota@chance.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I've been monitoring this group for some time. Why do
>> you
>> >>all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of a
deal[
color=darkred]
>> >>whether you passed the beta or not?
>> >>
>> >>I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I don't
>> >>think I will do another. Only because It was not[/color]
worth
>> >>taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I just
>> >>assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>> >>
>> >>I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
>> people
>> >>have any real work to do? Do you really measure your
>> >>worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>> >>
>> >>Come on grow up.
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>
| |
|
| I think I'm inclined to agree somewhat with Harv. I do
want the wait to end, I'm convinced I passed, but I
suppose I can't shake that kid-before-xmas thingy with
any anticipated result.
I probably won't undertake another architecture beta, MS
simply demonstrate their usual lip-service (has anyone
actually emailed mcphelp for info, just see the kind of
corporate nonsense you get as a reply.) Same applies to
queries about VC++.Net.
I'm happy to undertake other betas in the future, I think
they show that you know your stuff without the aid of
transcenders or other more nefarious sources. But I may
as well pay for architecture exams when they go live in
future, I lost more money taking the day off work for 71-
300 than the price of a live exam.
>-----Original Message-----
>IF affects me because I also am in the certification
>process and have been since 1999. I cary many
>certifications and have gone through this several times.
>
>However, I do not like how Microsoft handles changes in
>the program. Especially in the area of communication.
So
>when I see people act like they do in this news group, I
>fell it only makes the situation worse. Microsoft sees
>that they can run the show however they wish, and people
>will follow. The power is in the hands of the
>developers. We need to use that power effectivley.
That
>is how it affects me and you as well.
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the
beta
>exam, but I know
>>that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully>
>become an MCSD.NET.
>>I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the
>certification process has
>>been long and arduous for me.
>>
>>It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the
>enthusiasm of others,
>>which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people
>are excited and
>>acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
>>
>>"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>> news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>>> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is
such a[col
or=darkred]
>>> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>>> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why[/color]
so[co
lor=darkred]
>>> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>>> mostly seen complaints about the process and
>>> communication. I don't understand why the[/color]
participation[colo
r=green]
>>> level if the systems is so poor.
>>>
>>>
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like[/color]
that. [colo
r=darkred]
>>> >
>>> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think
> that
>>> posting such a
>>> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
>>> >
>>> >I suggest you take your own advice.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>>> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time.[/color]
Why
> do
>>> you
>>> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of
a
> deal
>>> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
>>> >>
>>> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I
> don't
>>> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not
> worth
>>> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I
just[
color=darkred]
>>> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>>> >>
>>> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
>>> people
>>> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure[/color]
your[
color=darkred]
>>> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>>> >>
>>> >> Come on grow up.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >.
>>> >
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>.
>[/color]
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| >The power is in the hands of the
>developers. We need to use that power effectivley. That
>is how it affects me and you as well.
This is exactly what microsoft and other technology driven companies
try to achieve. Business need's no long drive the requirement of
software developments.
| |
|
| Sorry, but if I didn't use such inflamatory language, my
guess is that I would not have generated the amount of
discussion that I have in such a short while. I did not
want this thread to get lost in the others. I truely
believe this is an important topic. You guys should check
out what the MCSE's are going through.
>-----Original Message-----
>I agree with you Harv.
>
>However, I think you're more likely to have constructive
and beneficial
>converesation if you don't say things such as "I read
these posts and it
>makes me sick. Don't you people have any real work to
do?"
>
>That's all.
>
>"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:00da01c2d120$a2d37180$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> IF affects me because I also am in the certification
>> process and have been since 1999. I cary many
>> certifications and have gone through this several times.
>>
>> However, I do not like how Microsoft handles changes in
>> the program. Especially in the area of communication.
So
>> when I see people act like they do in this news group, I
>> fell it only makes the situation worse. Microsoft sees
>> that they can run the show however they wish, and people
>> will follow. The power is in the hands of the
>> developers. We need to use that power effectivley.
That
>> is how it affects me and you as well.
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the
beta
>> exam, but I know
>> >that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully>
>> become an MCSD.NET.
>> >I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the
>> certification process has
>> >been long and arduous for me.
>> >
>> >It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the
>> enthusiasm of others,
>> >which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people
>> are excited and
>> >acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
>> >
>> >"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>> > news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> >> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is
such a[col
or=darkred]
>> >> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam[/color]
and[c
olor=darkred]
>> >> found the experience lacking. I am interested in[/color]
why so[co
lor=darkred]
>> >> many people are so obsessed with this process. I[/color]
have[
color=darkred]
>> >> mostly seen complaints about the process and
>> >> communication. I don't understand why the[/color]
participation[colo
r=green]
>> >> level if the systems is so poor.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like[/color]
that. [colo
r=darkred]
>> >> >
>> >> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think
>> that
>> >> posting such a
>> >> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
>> >> >
>> >> >I suggest you take your own advice.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> >> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time.[/color]
Why
>> do
>> >> you
>> >> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of
a
>> deal
>> >> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I
>> don't
>> >> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not
>> worth
>> >> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I
just[
color=darkred]
>> >> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't[/color]
you[c
olor=darkred]
>> >> people
>> >> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure[/color]
your[
color=darkred]
>> >> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Come on grow up.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>[/color]
| |
|
| No actually I passed it. You are missing the point all
together. Why don't you read some of the other responses
and my responses to them, they are a bit more useful.
>-----Original Message-----
>You really have a chip on your shoulder.
>
>Did you fail your exam by any chance?
>
>"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:00e301c2d121$39bf27b0$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> I agree mostly. But I do not agree that the power is in
>> the hands of Microsoft. The power is in the hands of
the
>> developers. When we act this why we squander this power
>> and are no better than Pavlov's Dogs.
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>No, actually I am very currious as to why this is
such a[col
or=darkred]
>> >>big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>> >>found the experience lacking. I am interested in why[/color]
so[co
lor=darkred]
>> >>many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>> >>mostly seen complaints about the process and
>> >>communication. I don't understand why the[/color]
participation[colo
r=green]
>> >>level if the systems is so poor.
>> >
>> >It is only human nature. But to put things into
>> prospective, try
>> >waiting for the results of Cancer test.
>> >
>> >Communication is the problem of the company (microsoft)
>> who really do
>> >not care about what you, me or any individual thinks.
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>[/color]
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| > I bet it will quiet down pretty quickly.
Yep, soon be back to how it normally is, with these sort of question
we see here: -
'Can anyone send me transcender for 98-765?'.
'What do I need to become am mcsd?'.
'Can some send me my mcp number?'.
'My welcome kit's not arrived yet, any advice?'.
Mind you is not as bad as the mcse ng, which is really good fun to
lurk around.
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| >But I may
>as well pay for architecture exams when they go live in
>future, I lost more money taking the day off work for 71-
>300 than the price of a live exam.
Which you will be able to take for free.
| |
|
| I agree completly. IT has driven many a business to its
death. I only meant the power in IT specifacly. My IT
choices at the lowest levels are made by devlopers.
>-----Original Message-----
>>The power is in the hands of the
>>developers. We need to use that power effectivley.
That
>>is how it affects me and you as well.
>
>This is exactly what microsoft and other technology
driven companies
>try to achieve. Business need's no long drive the
requirement of
>software developments.
>.
>
| |
|
| Exactly one of my main points. Microsoft gets extremly
valueable data for free. And worse yet they treat their
hand picked candidates like dirt! Bad enough that I have
had to pay to keep my certs current, but to get treated
poorly as well is just wrong.
>-----Original Message-----
>I think I'm inclined to agree somewhat with Harv. I do
>want the wait to end, I'm convinced I passed, but I
>suppose I can't shake that kid-before-xmas thingy with
>any anticipated result.
>I probably won't undertake another architecture beta, MS
>simply demonstrate their usual lip-service (has anyone
>actually emailed mcphelp for info, just see the kind of
>corporate nonsense you get as a reply.) Same applies to
>queries about VC++.Net.
>I'm happy to undertake other betas in the future, I think
>they show that you know your stuff without the aid of
>transcenders or other more nefarious sources. But I may
>as well pay for architecture exams when they go live in
>future, I lost more money taking the day off work for 71-
>300 than the price of a live exam.
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>IF affects me because I also am in the certification
>>process and have been since 1999. I cary many
>>certifications and have gone through this several times.
>>
>>However, I do not like how Microsoft handles changes in
>>the program. Especially in the area of communication.
>So
>>when I see people act like they do in this news group, I
>>fell it only makes the situation worse. Microsoft sees
>>that they can run the show however they wish, and people
>>will follow. The power is in the hands of the
>>developers. We need to use that power effectivley.
>That
>>is how it affects me and you as well.
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Well, I don't know what the excitement is about the
>beta
>>exam, but I know
>>>that I am very excited to take 70-300, and <hopefully>
>>become an MCSD.NET.
>>>I've been working with .NET since beta 2, and the
>>certification process has
>>>been long and arduous for me.
>>>
>>>It just doesn't seem right for people to criticize the
>>enthusiasm of others,
>>>which is what I felt you were doing. So what if people
>>are excited and
>>>acting silly. Let them! How does this affect you?
>>>
>>>"Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>>> news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>>>> No, actually I am very currious as to why this is
>such a
>>>> big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
>>>> found the experience lacking. I am interested in why
> so
>>>> many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
>>>> mostly seen complaints about the process and
>>>> communication. I don't understand why the
> participation[col
or=darkred]
>>>> level if the systems is so poor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >Seems rather inappropriate to attack people like
>that.
>>>> >
>>>> >Why does it bother you so much? Do you really think
>>that
>>>> posting such a
>>>> >message will benefit anyone, or make any difference?
>>>> >
>>>> >I suggest you take your own advice.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >"Harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
>>>> > news:055e01c2d11c$86a2a250$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
>>>> >> I've been monitoring this group for some time.
>Why
>>do
>>>> you
>>>> >> all sound so desperite? Is it really that big of
>a
>>deal
>>>> >> whether you passed the beta or not?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I took the beta, my first beta experience, and I
>>don't
>>>> >> think I will do another. Only because It was not
>>worth
>>>> >> taking a day off to spend five hours testing. I
> just
>>>> >> assume take it live like I did the 70-100.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I read these posts and it makes me sick. Don't you
>>>> people
>>>> >> have any real work to do? Do you really measure
> your
>>>> >> worth as to whether you passed a MS beta test?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Come on grow up.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >.
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>.
>>
>.
>[/color]
| |
|
| "harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:056b01c2d122$3c888b70$300
1280a@phx.gbl...
> I took the beta because it completes my MCSD.NET and have
> allways declined beta's in the past. I was interested in
> the process. I was invited probably because I have been
> an MCSD since 1999. Ad an MCDBA and MCSE too boot.
> Afraid I don't understand your comment about looking for
> approval.
Getting all those certifications suggests you had some interest in getting
Microsoft's approval. Maybe you don't have that kind of interest now, or
always felt more dispassionate about it than those who've been posting here
seem to be, but your insults seem a bit hypocritical.
| |
| Al Manint 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| Xref: nntp3.aus1.giganews.com microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd:17655
Can I buy you a beer? That might be the most succinct answer to this guy
that I've yet read.
Al Manint, MCSD, MCDBA, MCAD
"Tim" <spammers@begone> wrote in message
news:ewsalES0CHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11...
> "Harv" <Nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:05a101c2d11f$23b76c90$330
1280a@phx.gbl...
> > No, actually I am very currious as to why this is such a
> > big deal. Like I said I also have taken this exam and
> > found the experience lacking. I am interested in why so
> > many people are so obsessed with this process. I have
> > mostly seen complaints about the process and
> > communication. I don't understand why the participation
> > level if the systems is so poor.
>
> Harv, this is how newsgroups work. This one is actually relatively useful
> because the majority of posts are directly related to its intended topic.
I
> bet most of us have lives nearly as rich and fulfilling as yours, but this
> isn't the place to flaunt or even discuss that. Don't the fanatics here
ever
> talk about anything else? Probably, but thank goodness, most don't do it
> here.
>
> The newsgroup is about MCSD certification, and the only exam that's
> specifically required for the latest version goes live today and many are
> finally getting results for it. It's not often that there's such a big
event
> so critical to the focus of a newsgroup, so while there may appear to be
> many 'obsessed' posters, I bet it will quiet down pretty quickly.
>
>
| |
|
| Not at all. I've gotten those certifications for two
reasons. I learned quite a bit preparring for them. And
they have been usefull in gaining employment in the
consulting field.
I did not mean that getting certifications was seeking MS
approval, I meant the obsession with the results of this
BETA test. It is clear that most people would have been
better off waiting to take the live version, which many
will take for free.
>-----Original Message-----
>"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:056b01c2d122$3c888b70$300
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> I took the beta because it completes my MCSD.NET and
have
>> allways declined beta's in the past. I was interested
in
>> the process. I was invited probably because I have been
>> an MCSD since 1999. Ad an MCDBA and MCSE too boot.
>> Afraid I don't understand your comment about looking for
>> approval.
>
>Getting all those certifications suggests you had some
interest in getting
>Microsoft's approval. Maybe you don't have that kind of
interest now, or
>always felt more dispassionate about it than those who've
been posting here
>seem to be, but your insults seem a bit hypocritical.
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-10, 11:23 am |
| >I agree completly. IT has driven many a business to its
>death. I only meant the power in IT specifacly. My IT
>choices at the lowest levels are made by devlopers.
As it should be.
In the 90's I saw decision made by companies to 're-write' software
based on the fact that VB5 has been released. The business was quit
happy with the 'old' software, so where was the business case for the
re-write?
| |
|
| "harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:080c01c2d125$0496c4e0$d6f
82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA13...
> Not at all. I've gotten those certifications for two
> reasons. I learned quite a bit preparring for them. And
> they have been usefull in gaining employment in the
> consulting field.
How is that 'not at all' having an interest in the certifications? It's easy
to imagine the reasons for others are more superficial, but that's probably
incorrect, and even if some simply say "Microsoft really likes me!" when
they get a pass result, what's wrong with that?
> I did not mean that getting certifications was seeking MS
> approval, I meant the obsession with the results of this
> BETA test.
The only objective distinction I see there is that one is what YOU did.
| |
|
| "Al Manint" <al_manint@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eo#idTS0CHA.1624@TK2MSFTNGP10...
> Can I buy you a beer?
Absolutely! My beerpal.com account is tim@mcsdobsession.com.
| |
|
|
|
| You guys are missing the point. I have no problem with
certification or enjoyment of success. I am trying to
make a point about how MS treats its certifiaction base,
and in my oppinion as well as others, it is not good
enough.
>-----Original Message-----
>>Absolutely! My beerpal.com account is
tim@mcsdobsession.com.
>lol!
>.
>
| |
|
| "harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:016a01c2d127$eb4f7ce0$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
> You guys are missing the point. I have no problem with
> certification or enjoyment of success. I am trying to
> make a point about how MS treats its certifiaction base,
> and in my oppinion as well as others, it is not good
> enough.
While your inflammatory post may have done a good job at getting attention,
I'm not surprised it has distracted from this more reasonable point.
I agree that the handling of beta results should be better. One simple
change that I think would be a big improvement would be if MS calculated
pass/fail results for all beta testers and sent each of us a direct email at
the same time they give VUE and Prometric the data they need to do the
'official' rescoring bound for our transcripts. Delayed results for some
have been the norm lately, and that would also avoid snags by the test
providers and probably deliver results closer to simultaneously. Some emails
wouldn't get delivered, but the current processes would still be in place,
so the snail mail and transcript updates would eventually cover any
exceptions. In other words, there would still be problems, but I think it
would be a significant improvement.
That probably won't get as many replies as something like "you guys are all
losers", but maybe I'm just not as obsessed with getting attention as some
people. 
| |
|
| Its not just the BETA program. Its there certificaton
program as a whole. The changes they make are at times
rash, and then without warning they will reverse
themselves. For instance wouldn't you have liked to have
known that you would have had a chance to take 70-300 for
free before you took the Beta? Another example They
told MCSE's that they should upgrade to MCSE2000 and that
there would be no further upgrade to MCSE.NET. Many many
people took a series of 5 or 6 test ($600) to make that
upgrade, now they are told, oops there will be more tests
to take. Many would have waited to see the full migration
path first.
I think this is a horrible way for MS to treat its
certifiaction base. We are the evangelists for them, we
deserver a greater deal of respect.
>-----Original Message-----
>"harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:016a01c2d127$eb4f7ce0$a10
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> You guys are missing the point. I have no problem with
>> certification or enjoyment of success. I am trying to
>> make a point about how MS treats its certifiaction base,
>> and in my oppinion as well as others, it is not good
>> enough.
>
>While your inflammatory post may have done a good job at
getting attention,
>I'm not surprised it has distracted from this more
reasonable point.
>
>I agree that the handling of beta results should be
better. One simple
>change that I think would be a big improvement would be
if MS calculated
>pass/fail results for all beta testers and sent each of
us a direct email at
>the same time they give VUE and Prometric the data they
need to do the
>'official' rescoring bound for our transcripts. Delayed
results for some
>have been the norm lately, and that would also avoid
snags by the test
>providers and probably deliver results closer to
simultaneously. Some emails
>wouldn't get delivered, but the current processes would
still be in place,
>so the snail mail and transcript updates would eventually
cover any
>exceptions. In other words, there would still be
problems, but I think it
>would be a significant improvement.
>
>That probably won't get as many replies as something
like "you guys are all
>losers", but maybe I'm just not as obsessed with getting
attention as some
>people.
>
>
>.
>
| |
|
| "harv" <nota@chance.com> wrote in message
news:067b01c2d12b$0dee38b0$300
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Its not just the BETA program. Its there certificaton
> program as a whole. The changes they make are at times
> rash, and then without warning they will reverse
> themselves. For instance wouldn't you have liked to have
> known that you would have had a chance to take 70-300 for
> free before you took the Beta?
Actually, no! I'd have still done the beta, and that might have discouraged
others and required MS to extend the beta period to get enough testers.
> They
> told MCSE's that they should upgrade to MCSE2000 and that
> there would be no further upgrade to MCSE.NET. Many many
> people took a series of 5 or 6 test ($600) to make that
> upgrade, now they are told, oops there will be more tests
> to take. Many would have waited to see the full migration
> path first.
Personally, I have no objection to this either. I'm an MCSE too, but the
upgrade to 2000 was pretty simple - one big exam that MS offered for free
(240), plus one other new exam. I hardly think MS manipulated me or 'milked'
me for as much money as they could get.
Ideally, MS would have had the current plan announced all along, but this is
why they reserve the right to change their program whenever they like.
They're not alone, Oracle has done it too (announcing OCP will require an
official Oracle class, setting a deadline for grandfathering to avoid that
requirement, later extending the deadling).
On the whole, I don't have many big problems with the MS certification
program. Even the beta results notification situation is not a major
problem. I think the only big problems are their very limited success
shutting down braindumpers and the outrageously unreliable secure MCP site.
If you find the program mostly takes advantage of you, I'd send your
complaints to mcphelp@microsoft.com and stop participating in it yourself
(no more exams live or beta). Yeah, you'll probably just get a boilerplate
reply that suggests you delete your browser cookies, but ranting on a
newsgroup is probably not going to be very effective. I think the only thing
that will really get MS's attention is if participation in the program
drops.
| |
| Michael 2003-02-11, 10:23 am |
| Alan-
You forgot "How much more money will I make when I'm an MCSE?"
[colo
r=darkred]
>>> Alan Davis<™> 02/10/03 10:40AM >>>
> I bet it will quiet down pretty quickly.[/color]
Yep, soon be back to how it normally is, with these sort of question
we see here: -
'Can anyone send me transcender for 98-765?'.
'What do I need to become am mcsd?'.
'Can some send me my mcp number?'.
'My welcome kit's not arrived yet, any advice?'.
Mind you is not as bad as the mcse ng, which is really good fun to
lurk around.
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-02-11, 10:23 am |
| >You forgot "How much more money will I make when I'm an MCSE?"
Very true, sorry.
|
|
|
|
|