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FirstName LastName MCAD, MCSD
|
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| Eric Rockenbach 2003-01-16, 2:23 pm |
| Dear Brian,
Are you familiar with other industries outside the scope
of technology? Such as accountants pass a test which
allow them to place a CPA behind their name, Project
Managers pass a test to place a PMP behind theirs. These
same principles are applied to technology. Ever picked up
a computer book? You will notice the author (if
certified) has credentials listed behind their name.
Certification alone as I have written in the past is no
substitute for a degree, but a degree coupled with
certification only extends to your knowledge. I
understand that you may feel threatened if you were a Phd
per se and you compete against an applicant that has no
degree but has three certifications. Society in general
understands what a Phd and MBA are, the majority of people
do not understand what an MCSD is for example.
I have stated in another post that I have a BS and 5
certs, but I am perceived less qualified than individuals
that posses a MBA. To my earlier statement a
certification is an industry standard and is commonly
placed after a name, but does not replace the merit of a
degree.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Best Regards
Eric Rockenbach
| |
|
| The difference is that microsoft certs are not reconsized by a professional
body.
"Eric Rockenbach" <eric@extremedotnet.com> wrote in message
news:704e01c2bd92$3c032870$8ef
82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA04...
> Dear Brian,
>
> Are you familiar with other industries outside the scope
> of technology? Such as accountants pass a test which
> allow them to place a CPA behind their name, Project
> Managers pass a test to place a PMP behind theirs. These
> same principles are applied to technology. Ever picked up
> a computer book? You will notice the author (if
> certified) has credentials listed behind their name.
>
> Certification alone as I have written in the past is no
> substitute for a degree, but a degree coupled with
> certification only extends to your knowledge. I
> understand that you may feel threatened if you were a Phd
> per se and you compete against an applicant that has no
> degree but has three certifications. Society in general
> understands what a Phd and MBA are, the majority of people
> do not understand what an MCSD is for example.
>
> I have stated in another post that I have a BS and 5
> certs, but I am perceived less qualified than individuals
> that posses a MBA. To my earlier statement a
> certification is an industry standard and is commonly
> placed after a name, but does not replace the merit of a
> degree.
>
> Hope this clears up any confusion.
>
> Best Regards
> Eric Rockenbach
>
| |
|
| Please explain to the class what a professional body is
then "asdfg". A professional body is simply a non-profit
organization. Microsoft is an orginzation based on profit
such as other leaders in the industry like Oracle, Sun,
etc.
Who exactly is the organization pmi.org recognized by?
They are not regionally accredited like 4-year colleges
are. Microsoft is recognized by organizations the same as
a non-profit is. In fact the industry as a whole
recognizes MS certs which says a lot more than other
industry certs.
>-----Original Message-----
>The difference is that microsoft certs are not reconsized
by a professional
>body.
>
>"Eric Rockenbach" <eric@extremedotnet.com> wrote in
message
> news:704e01c2bd92$3c032870$8ef
82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA04...
>> Dear Brian,
>>
>> Are you familiar with other industries outside the scope
>> of technology? Such as accountants pass a test which
>> allow them to place a CPA behind their name, Project
>> Managers pass a test to place a PMP behind theirs.
These
>> same principles are applied to technology. Ever picked
up
>> a computer book? You will notice the author (if
>> certified) has credentials listed behind their name.
>>
>> Certification alone as I have written in the past is no
>> substitute for a degree, but a degree coupled with
>> certification only extends to your knowledge. I
>> understand that you may feel threatened if you were a
Phd
>> per se and you compete against an applicant that has no
>> degree but has three certifications. Society in general
>> understands what a Phd and MBA are, the majority of
people
>> do not understand what an MCSD is for example.
>>
>> I have stated in another post that I have a BS and 5
>> certs, but I am perceived less qualified than
individuals
>> that posses a MBA. To my earlier statement a
>> certification is an industry standard and is commonly
>> placed after a name, but does not replace the merit of a
>> degree.
>>
>> Hope this clears up any confusion.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Eric Rockenbach
>>
>
>
>.
>
| |
|
| > Please explain to the class what a professional body is
> then "asdfg". A professional body is simply a non-profit
> organization. Microsoft is an orginzation based on profit
> such as other leaders in the industry like Oracle, Sun,
> etc.
Although the Oracle, Cisco & Sun certifications are held greater esteemed
than Microsofts, they too are not recognized by a processional body.
One of the problems with IT, and the development of software in particular,
is that there is no governing body or regulator, unlike many other
industries. This means anyone can call themselves a Software Engineer,
Developer, programmer, dba, etc and undertake such employment, without being
'qualified' for such a role . Hence why rather than getting cheaper,
software keeps getting more expensive, because of all the rubbish produced.
> Who exactly is the organization pmi.org recognized by?
> They are not regionally accredited like 4-year colleges
> are.
I Don't know, nore do I care.
> Microsoft is recognized by organizations the same as
> a non-profit is.
Never said they were not.
> In fact the industry as a whole
> recognizes MS certs which says a lot more than other
> industry certs.
No they are not, that is with the exception of microsoft and the gold
partners.
Microsoft certification means little to ibm, sun, cisco, apple, red hat and
any software provider that does produce software for microsoft platforms,
and the same is true for other vendors certifications (Cisco aside) when
applied to microsoft.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >The difference is that microsoft certs are not reconsized
> by a professional
> >body.
> >
> >"Eric Rockenbach" <eric@extremedotnet.com> wrote in
> message
> > news:704e01c2bd92$3c032870$8ef
82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA04...
> >> Dear Brian,
> >>
> >> Are you familiar with other industries outside the scope
> >> of technology? Such as accountants pass a test which
> >> allow them to place a CPA behind their name, Project
> >> Managers pass a test to place a PMP behind theirs.
> These
> >> same principles are applied to technology. Ever picked
> up
> >> a computer book? You will notice the author (if
> >> certified) has credentials listed behind their name.
> >>
> >> Certification alone as I have written in the past is no
> >> substitute for a degree, but a degree coupled with
> >> certification only extends to your knowledge. I
> >> understand that you may feel threatened if you were a
> Phd
> >> per se and you compete against an applicant that has no
> >> degree but has three certifications. Society in general
> >> understands what a Phd and MBA are, the majority of
> people
> >> do not understand what an MCSD is for example.
> >>
> >> I have stated in another post that I have a BS and 5
> >> certs, but I am perceived less qualified than
> individuals[color
=darkred]
> >> that posses a MBA. To my earlier statement a
> >> certification is an industry standard and is commonly
> >> placed after a name, but does not replace the merit of a
> >> degree.
> >>
> >> Hope this clears up any confusion.
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >> Eric Rockenbach
> >>
> >
> >
> >.
> >[/color]
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-01-16, 4:23 pm |
|
I see where you are coming from, but the IT industry is like the
medical (more's the pity), legal or financial industries which are
regulated with regards to people who practice within that profession.
| |
|
|
>One of the problems with IT, and the development of
software in particular,
>is that there is no governing body or regulator, unlike
many other
>industries. This means anyone can call themselves a
Software Engineer,
>Developer, programmer, dba, etc and undertake such
employment, without being
>'qualified' for such a role . Hence why rather than
getting cheaper,
>software keeps getting more expensive, because of all the
rubbish produced.
>
Anyone can call themselves an enginner, developer, etc.
just as anyone can call themselves an accountant,
financial advisor, etc., but that doesn't mean they are
hireable. The problem lies in middle-management that
knows nothing about technology. Talk about a real scam!
Get your MBA and come and manage something you know
nothing about. I disagree with this approach.
MS certs are under the most scrutiny because they are the
biggest so of course they will experience more fraud. MS
certs obviously are not recognized by sun, cisco, apple,
red hat because they are competing products. Does
Microsoft recognize you as a Sun Certified Developer? I
think not. MS certs are however recognized at some
schools (mostly networking certs).
| |
| Alan Davis 2003-01-17, 3:23 am |
| >Anyone can call themselves an enginner, developer, etc.
>just as anyone can call themselves an accountant,
>financial advisor, etc., but that doesn't mean they are
>hireable.
In the UK you cannot be an financial advisor without going through
some kind of process which is controlled by some regulator. In the
80's this field was pretty much unregulated, and lead to the
mis-selling of financial services and products.
Anyone can do 'Accounting' but I'm sure you cannot set up a business
and trade as a chartered accountant.
I agree with 'asdfg', however the problem is IT is too varied and no
single body could. The development of software could be improved where
by companies adopt recognized methodologies and processes. Many
companies believe they already do that but in reality there simply
don't put those practices in place or simply bypass protocol, because
they do not understand (example being your point below about
management).
>The problem lies in middle-management that
>knows nothing about technology. Talk about a real scam!
>Get your MBA and come and manage something you know
>nothing about. I disagree with this approach.
Absolutely agree. Companies seem to love to place managers with no IT
background Still and least the project plan gantt charts are very
simple - coding | finished
>MS certs are under the most scrutiny because they are the
>biggest so of course they will experience more fraud.
It's the simple format of the exams, that's the problem. The only way
to reduce the fraud is have written tests where by exam takes have to
describe and explain the answer to the questions. Also [Naturally] to
introduce lab type practical exam(s). Naturally this will become very
expensive and as ms care more about the quantity of certified
'professionals' rather than the quality of such people, this will
never happen, so the 'worth' of ms certification will continue to
decline.
> MS
>certs obviously are not recognized by sun, cisco, apple,
>red hat because they are competing products. Does
>Microsoft recognize you as a Sun Certified Developer? I
>think not.
I think that's what 'asdfg' said!
| |
| EROCK 2003-01-17, 10:23 am |
| Xref: nntp3.aus1.giganews.com microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd:17018
>In the UK you cannot be an financial advisor without
going through
>some kind of process which is controlled by some
regulator. In the
>80's this field was pretty much unregulated, and lead to
the
>mis-selling of financial services and products.
>
>Anyone can do 'Accounting' but I'm sure you cannot set up
a business
>and trade as a chartered accountant.
In the US you can.
>I agree with 'asdfg', however the problem is IT is too
varied and no
>single body could. The development of software could be
improved where
>by companies adopt recognized methodologies and
processes. Many
>companies believe they already do that but in reality
there simply
>don't put those practices in place or simply bypass
protocol, because
>they do not understand (example being your point below
about
>management).
true, but you are right it will never happen in the IT
industry.
>It's the simple format of the exams, that's the problem.
The only way
>to reduce the fraud is have written tests where by exam
takes have to
>describe and explain the answer to the questions. Also
[Naturally] to
>introduce lab type practical exam(s). Naturally this will
become very
>expensive and as ms care more about the quantity of
certified
>'professionals' rather than the quality of such people,
this will
>never happen, so the 'worth' of ms certification will
continue to
>decline.
>
I think labs would be a great improvment to the exams.
Companies such as CompTIA think tests alone do not
accurately depict the intelligence of the student.
| |
| Keith Harrison 2003-01-20, 8:23 am |
| I agree with Brian, there are simply too many people out
there with MCSD who probably couldn't even install visual
studio and who have gained an MCSD by memorising a few
brain bumps. Also the MCSD is as much a marketing tool as
a certification which again devalues its credibility
A friend of mine has been sitting Actuarial exams which
have taken him years of hard work to pass. Nothing like
the few months of part time work I had to put in to get my
MCSD. I dont think theres any comparison between
Microsofts and other professional exams.
>-----Original Message-----
>
>>In the UK you cannot be an financial advisor without
>going through
>>some kind of process which is controlled by some
>regulator. In the
>>80's this field was pretty much unregulated, and lead to
>the
>>mis-selling of financial services and products.
>>
>>Anyone can do 'Accounting' but I'm sure you cannot set
up
>a business
>>and trade as a chartered accountant.
>
>In the US you can.
>
>>I agree with 'asdfg', however the problem is IT is too
>varied and no
>>single body could. The development of software could be
>improved where
>>by companies adopt recognized methodologies and
>processes. Many
>>companies believe they already do that but in reality
>there simply
>>don't put those practices in place or simply bypass
>protocol, because
>>they do not understand (example being your point below
>about
>>management).
>
>true, but you are right it will never happen in the IT
>industry.
>
>
>>It's the simple format of the exams, that's the problem.
>The only way
>>to reduce the fraud is have written tests where by exam
>takes have to
>>describe and explain the answer to the questions. Also
>[Naturally] to
>>introduce lab type practical exam(s). Naturally this
will
>become very
>>expensive and as ms care more about the quantity of
>certified
>>'professionals' rather than the quality of such people,
>this will
>>never happen, so the 'worth' of ms certification will
>continue to
>>decline.
>>
>
>I think labs would be a great improvment to the exams.
>Companies such as CompTIA think tests alone do not
>accurately depict the intelligence of the student.
>.
>
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