microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd - General Computer Science certification?

Author

General Computer Science certification?

Paul Hatcher

2003-01-07, 7:23 am

Marcus

There are professional qualifications for Computer
Science, but they are more prevalent in Europe rather than
the US.

For example, have a look at the British Computer Society
on http://www.bcs.org where you can gain membership either
by a relevant degree or by sitting the institute's exams.

It is possible to gain a C.Eng qualification by this route
given sufficient qualifications and experience.

Regards

Paul
>-----Original Message-----
>
>I enjoy all the discussions in this newsgroup on the
value of formal
>certifications. I have often wondered why there is not a
more general
>certification for Computer Science? My father is a
Geologist and had to
>pass a test to become a Professional Geologist in
Florida. Likewise, you
>can become a Professional Engineer in Florida if you are
an Engineer who
>meets certain criteria?
>
>I have a BS in Computer Science, but there is no
Professional designation
>for CS that I can try for. I assume the purpose of
having a Professional
>designation is similar to a Lawyer taking the Bar Exam;
to some extent it
>proves that your University education was sufficient. It
surprises me that
>there is nothing similar for CS, especially with all the
fly-by-night
>schools offering CS degrees.
>
>The certifications that are available, such as MCSD,
simply prove that you
>know something about a certain technology. They don't,
however, test
>fundamentals. If I were a hiring manager, I would be
much more concerned
>about the programmer knowing how to implement common data
structures and
>algorithms, than on their ability to use a specific
technology.
>
>Does anyone know of a state or country that has something
similar to a
>Professional designation for Computer Science? Or if
there are any plans on
>such a thing?
>
>
>
>.
>

Greg Low

2003-01-15, 1:23 am

Hi Richard/Paul/Marcus,

Many countries have professional societies. Australia does have an
equivalent to Britain's BCS. We have the ACS (Australian Computer Society).
For full membership, the starting point is a 3 year degree with a
substantial computing content.

The society has some effect in lobbying governments locally but otherwise
not a big impact.

Unfortunately, Australia (like many other countries) seems to be going
through a "dumbing-down" period. Instead of only the brightest students
taking places at unis, going to a uni seems to be almost an expectation for
most 12th grade students, some sort of right for the masses. The courses
have been adapted to suit this level of intake.

The unis also are unable to support genuine research. To get a research
grant (as a post-grad), you need to have the project around 60% complete.
Completion and outcomes are the key issue. Problem is that at that point,
it's not research, it's development.

This won't stop any time soon either. High-schools are worse. Very few
students taking teaching degrees in Australia are high-level students. Our
kids are largely going to be taught by people who couldn't cope well with
school themselves. I have a cousin teaching secondary maths/physics. He
couldn't do those subjects at school. That's why he's doing it. It was the
best course he could get into with his low grades. This form of teaching is
lowly-valued in the society. This is very sad for the future.

Richard, which uni / course are you doing / disappointed with?

Regards,

Greg Low
Brisbane, Oztralia

"Richard" <richgi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uaE1LtEvCHA.2296@TK2MSFTNGP09...
> this is a very interesting point you make, I am currently a uni student
with
> just 6 months to go. But I feel the quality of my degree is just
terrible,
> I am in top 3% of all classes but still feel I am learning nothing.
>
> I think a test like this could really separate the good schools from the
> sh*t ones like mine, and in doing so up the quality of cs education in
> general particularly in places like here in Australia where we have not a
> single uni in the top 50 in the world.
>
> I don't know that software engineering is comprehensive of a computer
> science degree, to me there seems to be a few specialisations: web
> development, systems programming, software design and development,
> networking, artificial intelligence, systems simulation etc etc... So I
> think as well as a foundation exam for all students, perhaps optional
exams
> to qualify as a field specialist.
>
> What a great idea! I think I'll forward a letter to my government's
> education and technology ministers or maybe even a survey of students at
> various unis and suggest they commission something like this.
>
> Rich.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Paul Hatcher" <phatcher@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:07a201c2b648$d6802ca0$d5f
82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA12...
> > Marcus
> >
> > There are professional qualifications for Computer
> > Science, but they are more prevalent in Europe rather than
> > the US.
> >
> > For example, have a look at the British Computer Society
> > on http://www.bcs.org where you can gain membership either
> > by a relevant degree or by sitting the institute's exams.
> >
> > It is possible to gain a C.Eng qualification by this route
> > given sufficient qualifications and experience.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Paul
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >
> > >I enjoy all the discussions in this newsgroup on the
> > value of formal
> > >certifications. I have often wondered why there is not a
> > more general
> > >certification for Computer Science? My father is a
> > Geologist and had to
> > >pass a test to become a Professional Geologist in
> > Florida. Likewise, you
> > >can become a Professional Engineer in Florida if you are
> > an Engineer who
> > >meets certain criteria?
> > >
> > >I have a BS in Computer Science, but there is no
> > Professional designation
> > >for CS that I can try for. I assume the purpose of
> > having a Professional
> > >designation is similar to a Lawyer taking the Bar Exam;
> > to some extent it
> > >proves that your University education was sufficient. It
> > surprises me that
> > >there is nothing similar for CS, especially with all the
> > fly-by-night
> > >schools offering CS degrees.
> > >
> > >The certifications that are available, such as MCSD,
> > simply prove that you
> > >know something about a certain technology. They don't,
> > however, test
> > >fundamentals. If I were a hiring manager, I would be
> > much more concerned
> > >about the programmer knowing how to implement common data
> > structures and
> > >algorithms, than on their ability to use a specific
> > technology.
> > >
> > >Does anyone know of a state or country that has something
> > similar to a
> > >Professional designation for Computer Science? Or if
> > there are any plans on
> > >such a thing?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >
>
>

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