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RE: DO NOT HELP THIS PERSON
|
|
| Darryl 2002-11-05, 3:23 am |
| Jason you don't understand nothing about the spirit of the new age of people
sharing their knowledge and experience in the net.
You are living in the past. Access to the new future. You will be welcome.
Baudelaire
Jason Mauss <JasonMauss@vsdotnetguru.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
udO7g1fSCHA.1668@tkmsftngp13...
> Someone named "Sayed Ally" ( ally@dataworld.co.za ) emailed me with the
> following (pasted from the email) :
>
> > Dear Sir
> >
> > Could you please help me get the mcad certification by
> > providing me with samples, transcenders, tutorials, braindumps
> > anything .
>
>
> I imagine this person will try and email other MCAD's with the same
> proposition. Whatever you do, don't help this person. Why people think I
> would like to help them cheat to get what I rightfully earned after many
> late nights of learning and hard studying is beyond me.
>
> Be on the lookout for people trying to cheat for MCAD, apparently they're
> already out there.
>
> Jason MCP, MCSD, MCAD, MCDBA, MCT
>
>
| |
| Danut Prisacaru 2002-11-05, 9:23 am |
| "Darryl" <nocolasa@terra.es> wrote in message
news:OqVUOZKhCHA.2672@tkmsftngp09...
> Jason you don't understand nothing
Well, I guess Jason is G-d because he understands everything.
> about the spirit of the new age of people
> sharing their knowledge and experience in the net.
I do not think braindumps can be called sharing, or maybe yes, sharing the
cheating.
> You are living in the past. Access to the new future. You will be welcome.
I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by cheating.
The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea what
they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts, they
know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
professionals.
More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
Ad astra per aspera!!!
> Baudelaire
Jean Jacques Rousseau
> Jason Mauss <JasonMauss@vsdotnetguru.com> escribió en el mensaje de
noticias
> udO7g1fSCHA.1668@tkmsftngp13...
> > Someone named "Sayed Ally" ( ally@dataworld.co.za ) emailed me with the
> > following (pasted from the email) :
> >
> > > Dear Sir
> > >
> > > Could you please help me get the mcad certification by
> > > providing me with samples, transcenders, tutorials, braindumps
> > > anything .
> >
> >
> > I imagine this person will try and email other MCAD's with the same
> > proposition. Whatever you do, don't help this person. Why people think I
> > would like to help them cheat to get what I rightfully earned after many
> > late nights of learning and hard studying is beyond me.
> >
> > Be on the lookout for people trying to cheat for MCAD, apparently
they're
> > already out there.
> >
> > Jason MCP, MCSD, MCAD, MCDBA, MCT
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-05, 10:23 am |
| >
> I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by cheating.
> The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea
what
> they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts, they
> know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> professionals.
>
> More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
>
Very true. And this is not going to change.
Because you not going to be a manager, are you?
| |
| Danut Prisacaru 2002-11-05, 10:23 am |
| Don't try to guess what a person is or wants because you base your judgement
on assumptions.
It's really not your concern what I'm doing.
Last but not leats your posting is very impolite.
If you do not like my ideas and opinions then comment them and not my
person.
Danut
PS If you really work in a software environment you know what I'm talking
about. If not then don't bother trying to understand.
"Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:ezcg#EOhCHA.1392@tkmsftngp12...
> > I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by
cheating.
> > The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea
> what
> > they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts, they
> > know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> > professionals.
> >
> > More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
> >
>
> Very true. And this is not going to change.
> Because you not going to be a manager, are you?
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-05, 11:23 am |
| Thats what I actually mean and not trying to be impolite.
This is very rare when developer(who like to be developer) became manager.
Thats why people you talking about get hired.
"Danut Prisacaru" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:#GIviXOhCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> Don't try to guess what a person is or wants because you base your
judgement
> on assumptions.
> It's really not your concern what I'm doing.
>
> Last but not leats your posting is very impolite.
> If you do not like my ideas and opinions then comment them and not my
> person.
>
> Danut
>
> PS If you really work in a software environment you know what I'm talking
> about. If not then don't bother trying to understand.
>
> "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> news:ezcg#EOhCHA.1392@tkmsftngp12...
> > > I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by
> cheating.
> > > The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea
> > what
> > > they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts,
they[
color=darkred]
> > > know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> > > professionals.
> > >
> > > More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
> > >
> >
> > Very true. And this is not going to change.
> > Because you not going to be a manager, are you?
>
>[/color]
| |
| Danut Prisacaru 2002-11-05, 11:23 am |
| "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:esgsPpOhCHA.1652@tkmsftngp09...
> Thats what I actually mean and not trying to be impolite.
>
> This is very rare when developer(who like to be developer) became manager.
That's why a wise manager should have people skills and see which one is a
god developer and which one is not.
> Thats why people you talking about get hired.
They get hired because the managers I talk about think they are also
experts in programming which is totally wrong.
A manager who spends most of his time in meetings has no time to learn new
technologies and be up to date.
I study hard to take my certifications and be a real professional and it
really bothers me when some people who know very little make decisions that
hurt the company in long term.
Danut
> "Danut Prisacaru" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:#GIviXOhCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> > Don't try to guess what a person is or wants because you base your
> judgement
> > on assumptions.
> > It's really not your concern what I'm doing.
> >
> > Last but not leats your posting is very impolite.
> > If you do not like my ideas and opinions then comment them and not my
> > person.
> >
> > Danut
> >
> > PS If you really work in a software environment you know what I'm
talking
> > about. If not then don't bother trying to understand.
> >
> > "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> > news:ezcg#EOhCHA.1392@tkmsftngp12...
> > > > I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by
> > cheating.
> > > > The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no
idea[
color=darkred]
> > > what
> > > > they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts,
> they
> > > > know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> > > > professionals.
> > > >
> > > > More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Very true. And this is not going to change.
> > > Because you not going to be a manager, are you?
> >
> >
>
>[/color]
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-05, 11:23 am |
| >
> > Thats why people you talking about get hired.
>
> They get hired because the managers I talk about think they are also
> experts in programming which is totally wrong.
> A manager who spends most of his time in meetings has no time to learn new
> technologies and be up to date.
Here we go...
The best thing they do is to call real developer to do tecnical interview.
>
> I study hard to take my certifications and be a real professional and it
> really bothers me when some people who know very little make decisions
that
> hurt the company in long term.
I know what you talking about. Thats why it is pain to work in big
companies.
Some people actually like it. You (and me) don't.
Thats why I work in small company where everybody know what they doing.
And if we come back to my 1st reply:
If you want to change things then you need to became a manager or contractor
:-)
| |
| Danut Prisacaru 2002-11-05, 1:23 pm |
|
"Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:ePYNd0OhCHA.2104@tkmsftngp11...
> And if we come back to my 1st reply:
> If you want to change things then you need to became a manager or
contractor
> :-)
I love too much to write code and deal with technical problems.
I was a manager for about 5 years, I managed a team of 10 people and
multiple projects on the same time but after 5 years I got too frustrated
because I was loosing contact with the development issues.
My H1B visa does not allow me to be a contractor.
Danut
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-05, 1:23 pm |
|
"Danut Prisacaru" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uAu8D6PhCHA.2108@tkmsftngp12...
>
> "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> news:ePYNd0OhCHA.2104@tkmsftngp11...
> > And if we come back to my 1st reply:
> > If you want to change things then you need to became a manager or
> contractor
> > :-)
>
> I love too much to write code and deal with technical problems.
>
> I was a manager for about 5 years, I managed a team of 10 people and
> multiple projects on the same time but after 5 years I got too frustrated
> because I was loosing contact with the development issues.
>
> My H1B visa does not allow me to be a contractor.
But now we understand each other, correct?
(especially that you were manager)
| |
|
| "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:edR1h9PhCHA.1368@tkmsftngp09...
> But now we understand each other, correct?
> (especially that you were manager)
Yes, but I still do not understand some managers :-)
and I still do not understand why someone would use brandumps and then
pretend he/she is a professional developer.
Danut
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-05, 2:23 pm |
|
"Danut" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uUMIfUQhCHA.1844@tkmsftngp12...
> "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> news:edR1h9PhCHA.1368@tkmsftngp09...
> > But now we understand each other, correct?
> > (especially that you were manager)
>
> Yes, but I still do not understand some managers :-)
> and I still do not understand why someone would use brandumps and then
> pretend he/she is a professional developer.
Not always true. I know some people used dumps and they *ARE* good
developers. They just didn't have time to
prepare.
Also, they never say "I'm MCSD and I'm better then you". Only to put it on
resume and
get interview.
| |
| James \(BV\) 2002-11-07, 9:23 pm |
| I TOTALLY Agree. I just passed 70-229 Monday, 70-315 and 70-320 in
September, 70-316 in June. I did all of this studying while working as a
contractor and also writing a book on .NET. I can remember in 2000 when I
was only making $45 per hour (and I felt that was what I deserved) and
everyone else were billing companies near $100 per hour or more. I worked
with developers who knew almost nothing, but there resume LOOKED great!!! It
was crazy, I hated it. Now we all suffer from the problems caused by those
type of people. But it wasn't only developers, it was also these large
consulting companies that simply wanted money; they didn't care about "true"
skills. I have decided that I will not work for less that $75 per hour, plus
flex time, on ANY contract. I would rather die than be a victim of what
someone else caused. People may say, "Well we'll just give someone else the
job who would be glad to have it." My response is, "Then do so. But if you
want a low-maintenance quality product, you have to pay." Sorry to put my
anger on here like this, but hopefully someone else out there will feel me.
We need something like a "True Developer Union" or something.
"Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:ufTlLbQhCHA.1392@tkmsftngp12...
>
> "Danut" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uUMIfUQhCHA.1844@tkmsftngp12...
> > "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> > news:edR1h9PhCHA.1368@tkmsftngp09...
> > > But now we understand each other, correct?
> > > (especially that you were manager)
> >
> > Yes, but I still do not understand some managers :-)
> > and I still do not understand why someone would use brandumps and then
> > pretend he/she is a professional developer.
>
> Not always true. I know some people used dumps and they *ARE* good
> developers. They just didn't have time to
> prepare.
> Also, they never say "I'm MCSD and I'm better then you". Only to put it on
> resume and
> get interview.
>
>
| |
| Hayato Iriumi 2002-11-07, 11:23 pm |
| *clap clap clap clap* Well said, James.
"James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:OdLg4SthCHA.2448@tkmsftngp11...
> I TOTALLY Agree. I just passed 70-229 Monday, 70-315 and 70-320 in
> September, 70-316 in June. I did all of this studying while working as a
> contractor and also writing a book on .NET. I can remember in 2000 when I
> was only making $45 per hour (and I felt that was what I deserved) and
> everyone else were billing companies near $100 per hour or more. I worked
> with developers who knew almost nothing, but there resume LOOKED great!!!
It
> was crazy, I hated it. Now we all suffer from the problems caused by those
> type of people. But it wasn't only developers, it was also these large
> consulting companies that simply wanted money; they didn't care about
"true"
> skills. I have decided that I will not work for less that $75 per hour,
plus
> flex time, on ANY contract. I would rather die than be a victim of what
> someone else caused. People may say, "Well we'll just give someone else
the
> job who would be glad to have it." My response is, "Then do so. But if you
> want a low-maintenance quality product, you have to pay." Sorry to put my
> anger on here like this, but hopefully someone else out there will feel
me.
> We need something like a "True Developer Union" or something.
>
> "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> news:ufTlLbQhCHA.1392@tkmsftngp12...
> >
> > "Danut" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:uUMIfUQhCHA.1844@tkmsftngp12...
> > > "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> > > news:edR1h9PhCHA.1368@tkmsftngp09...
> > > > But now we understand each other, correct?
> > > > (especially that you were manager)
> > >
> > > Yes, but I still do not understand some managers :-)
> > > and I still do not understand why someone would use brandumps and then
> > > pretend he/she is a professional developer.
> >
> > Not always true. I know some people used dumps and they *ARE* good
> > developers. They just didn't have time to
> > prepare.
> > Also, they never say "I'm MCSD and I'm better then you". Only to put it
on
> > resume and
> > get interview.
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-08, 9:23 am |
|
"James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:OdLg4SthCHA.2448@tkmsftngp11...
> I TOTALLY Agree. I just passed 70-229 Monday, 70-315 and 70-320 in
> September, 70-316 in June. I did all of this studying while working as a
> contractor and also writing a book on .NET. I can remember in 2000 when I
> was only making $45 per hour (and I felt that was what I deserved) and
James,
Where would I make "only" $45 per hour?
| |
| James \(BV\) 2002-11-08, 11:23 am |
| Atlanta, GA. (US)
"Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:eX5jORzhCHA.1572@tkmsftngp09...
>
> "James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:OdLg4SthCHA.2448@tkmsftngp11...
> > I TOTALLY Agree. I just passed 70-229 Monday, 70-315 and 70-320 in
> > September, 70-316 in June. I did all of this studying while working as a
> > contractor and also writing a book on .NET. I can remember in 2000 when
I
> > was only making $45 per hour (and I felt that was what I deserved) and
>
> James,
>
> Where would I make "only" $45 per hour?
>
>
>
| |
| Ivan Demkovitch 2002-11-08, 11:23 am |
|
"James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:#YE3cP0hCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> Atlanta, GA. (US)
>
How is climate compare to St.Louis MO ? :-)
| |
| James \(BV\) 2002-11-08, 11:23 am |
| Much warmer. But the weather is crazy. Very hot somedays, freezing the next.
It's hard to predict.
"Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
news:e5aYCb0hCHA.1760@tkmsftngp12...
>
> "James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:#YE3cP0hCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> > Atlanta, GA. (US)
> >
>
> How is climate compare to St.Louis MO ? :-)
>
>
>
| |
|
| Come to Texas!
Very hot somedays, very hot the next.
"James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:eBnUWj0hCHA.2008@tkmsftngp08...
> Much warmer. But the weather is crazy. Very hot somedays, freezing the
next.
> It's hard to predict.
>
> "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> news:e5aYCb0hCHA.1760@tkmsftngp12...
> >
> > "James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
> > news:#YE3cP0hCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> > > Atlanta, GA. (US)
> > >
> >
> > How is climate compare to St.Louis MO ? :-)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Sam Smith 2002-11-10, 8:23 pm |
| yeh, at least it consistantly sucks there.
"Danut" <danutzp1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eIC$rR3hCHA.2460@tkmsftngp09...
> Come to Texas!
> Very hot somedays, very hot the next.
>
> "James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:eBnUWj0hCHA.2008@tkmsftngp08...
> > Much warmer. But the weather is crazy. Very hot somedays, freezing the
> next.
> > It's hard to predict.
> >
> > "Ivan Demkovitch" <ivandem@dcsccorp.coms> wrote in message
> > news:e5aYCb0hCHA.1760@tkmsftngp12...
> > >
> > > "James (BV)" <james.henry@bluevisionsoftware.com> wrote in message
> > > news:#YE3cP0hCHA.1356@tkmsftngp11...
> > > > Atlanta, GA. (US)
> > > >
> > >
> > > How is climate compare to St.Louis MO ? :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Baudelaire 2002-11-15, 5:23 am |
| Dear Roseau,
Day by day, everybody show their talents and skills in their jobs. Maybe
a manager hire a developer certificated by the grace of MS, but if he don't
achieve the goals he will fire as soon as you read this post, you can be
sure of this.
Now, we are living in a time where we can build a new way to to get
acquainted with our ancient problems. Here, there is a place for everybody.
Who will be talented will be successful in everything.
The original post was sending by a person (I think Alli was his name)
who request help to begin his trainig to get MS certifications. Probably he
was a beginner who want to become a profesional developer. Obviously there
are not short cut, if he wish to get the target he'll must to work hard. Let
the logical laws do the rest
Sorry, but I don't understand the reasons to say: "DO NOT HELP THIS
PERSON"
Yours.
C. Baudelaire (damned developer)
--
((((()))))
¿\ ô | ô /?
--&
**
Danut Prisacaru <danutzp1@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
ezBYU0NhCHA.2108@tkmsftngp12...
> "Darryl" <nocolasa@terra.es> wrote in message
> news:OqVUOZKhCHA.2672@tkmsftngp09...
> > Jason you don't understand nothing
>
> Well, I guess Jason is G-d because he understands everything.
>
> > about the spirit of the new age of people
> > sharing their knowledge and experience in the net.
>
> I do not think braindumps can be called sharing, or maybe yes, sharing the
> cheating.
>
> > You are living in the past. Access to the new future. You will be
welcome.
>
> I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by cheating.
> The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea
what
> they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts, they
> know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> professionals.
>
> More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
>
> Ad astra per aspera!!!
>
> > Baudelaire
>
> Jean Jacques Rousseau
>
> > Jason Mauss <JasonMauss@vsdotnetguru.com> escribió en el mensaje de
> noticias
> > udO7g1fSCHA.1668@tkmsftngp13...
> > > Someone named "Sayed Ally" ( ally@dataworld.co.za ) emailed me with
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > > following (pasted from the email) :
> > >
> > > > Dear Sir
> > > >
> > > > Could you please help me get the mcad certification by
> > > > providing me with samples, transcenders, tutorials, braindumps
> > > > anything .
> > >
> > >
> > > I imagine this person will try and email other MCAD's with the same
> > > proposition. Whatever you do, don't help this person. Why people think[/color]
I[col
or=darkred]
> > > would like to help them cheat to get what I rightfully earned after[/color]
many[
color=darkred]
> > > late nights of learning and hard studying is beyond me.
> > >
> > > Be on the lookout for people trying to cheat for MCAD, apparently
> they're
> > > already out there.
> > >
> > > Jason MCP, MCSD, MCAD, MCDBA, MCT
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>[/color]
| |
|
| Dear Baudelaire,
You are right. I've just heard a rumor yesterday that some of the guys I was
complaining they don't do their jobs may have to leave the company. I'm
really sorry for them but , as you said, on these days there is only place
for good , hard-working people.
I think the author of the original email was bothered by the fact that the
person who asked for help wanted to use braindumps.
Maximilien Robespierre :-)
"Baudelaire" <nocolasa@terra.es> wrote in message
news:e7NQpOJjCHA.2428@tkmsftngp10...
> Dear Roseau,
>
> Day by day, everybody show their talents and skills in their jobs.
Maybe
> a manager hire a developer certificated by the grace of MS, but if he
don't
> achieve the goals he will fire as soon as you read this post, you can be
> sure of this.
>
> Now, we are living in a time where we can build a new way to to get
> acquainted with our ancient problems. Here, there is a place for
everybody.
> Who will be talented will be successful in everything.
>
> The original post was sending by a person (I think Alli was his name)
> who request help to begin his trainig to get MS certifications. Probably
he
> was a beginner who want to become a profesional developer. Obviously
there
> are not short cut, if he wish to get the target he'll must to work hard.
Let
> the logical laws do the rest
>
> Sorry, but I don't understand the reasons to say: "DO NOT HELP THIS
> PERSON"
>
> Yours.
>
> C. Baudelaire (damned developer)
>
> --
> ((((()))))
> ¿\ ô | ô /?
> --&
> **
>
>
> Danut Prisacaru <danutzp1@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> ezBYU0NhCHA.2108@tkmsftngp12...
> > "Darryl" <nocolasa@terra.es> wrote in message
> > news:OqVUOZKhCHA.2672@tkmsftngp09...
> > > Jason you don't understand nothing
> >
> > Well, I guess Jason is G-d because he understands everything.
> >
> > > about the spirit of the new age of people
> > > sharing their knowledge and experience in the net.
> >
> > I do not think braindumps can be called sharing, or maybe yes, sharing
the
> > cheating.
> >
> > > You are living in the past. Access to the new future. You will be
> welcome.
> >
> > I do not want to live in a future were competence is replaced by
cheating.
> > The .COM bubble created too many so called developers who have no idea
> what
> > they are doing. They superficially learned some words and concepts, they
> > know how to make sentences with them and then they pretend they are
> > professionals.
> >
> > More than that there are too many stupid managers who hire them.
> >
> > Ad astra per aspera!!!
> >
> > > Baudelaire
> >
> > Jean Jacques Rousseau
> >
> > > Jason Mauss <JasonMauss@vsdotnetguru.com> escribió en el mensaje de
> > noticias
> > > udO7g1fSCHA.1668@tkmsftngp13...
> > > > Someone named "Sayed Ally" ( ally@dataworld.co.za ) emailed me with
> the
> > > > following (pasted from the email) :
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Sir
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you please help me get the mcad certification by
> > > > > providing me with samples, transcenders, tutorials, braindumps
> > > > > anything .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I imagine this person will try and email other MCAD's with the same
> > > > proposition. Whatever you do, don't help this person. Why people
think
> I
> > > > would like to help them cheat to get what I rightfully earned after
> many
> > > > late nights of learning and hard studying is beyond me.
> > > >
> > > > Be on the lookout for people trying to cheat for MCAD, apparently
> > they're
> > > > already out there.
> > > >
> > > > Jason MCP, MCSD, MCAD, MCDBA, MCT
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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