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Looking for Advice from MCSEs
|
|
| MCSE Newbee 2004-03-30, 11:23 am |
| I am ready to begin my MCSE certification. I have looked
at the class list and have chosen my curriculum. As I am
looking at the MCSE self paced study kits many of the
comments are "good book but does not prepare you for the
exam". I do not have time to take the 2-5 day classes and
was hoping to use the books as a self-paced study guide.
If they are not going to prepare me properly for the
exams, however, I don't see the point. Can anyone out
there who has taken MCSE exams let me know what you would
recommend?
| |
| Tpyh0n 2004-03-30, 11:23 am |
| The self paced study guides are good books, and they contain all you need to
know to pass the exams, but I would also recommend using some of the
practise exams available from companies such as Measureup and
Selftestsoftware.
The practise exams will give you an insight of not only how you are doing
but will also help get you into exam mode - but be careful of not simply
learning the questions/answers!!!
There are a whole bunch of companies out there but Measureup, Transcender
and Selftestsoftware I have found to be consistent. If you can afford to,
use at least 2 independant self tests to keep your practise exam experience
fresh.
You will need access to hardware - at least one client/server and a simple
network to practise the labs, time spent actually doing the hands on stuff
is never wasted, it will help you to visualise the theoretical concepts.
Keep at it, use as many resources as you can and good luck.
Hope this helps.
"MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:111f101c41667$f9254b70$a0
01280a@phx.gbl...
> I am ready to begin my MCSE certification. I have looked
> at the class list and have chosen my curriculum. As I am
> looking at the MCSE self paced study kits many of the
> comments are "good book but does not prepare you for the
> exam". I do not have time to take the 2-5 day classes and
> was hoping to use the books as a self-paced study guide.
> If they are not going to prepare me properly for the
> exams, however, I don't see the point. Can anyone out
> there who has taken MCSE exams let me know what you would
> recommend?
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 11:23 am |
| "MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:111f101c41667$f9254b70$a0
01280a@phx.gbl:
> I am ready to begin my MCSE certification. I have looked
> at the class list and have chosen my curriculum. As I am
> looking at the MCSE self paced study kits many of the
> comments are "good book but does not prepare you for the
> exam". I do not have time to take the 2-5 day classes and
> was hoping to use the books as a self-paced study guide.
> If they are not going to prepare me properly for the
> exams, however, I don't see the point. Can anyone out
> there who has taken MCSE exams let me know what you would
> recommend?
Everyone who fails usually bashes the books then study from. I have found
that most Sybex and Coriolis books are pretty good. MS Press are not bad for
product reference, but because they don't specialize in Certification
preparation, then are not as good as the publishers that do specialize in
cert. prep.
Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
---
MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
--
MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...equirements.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
| |
|
| So, what you are saying is the "Microsoft MCSE Self-Paced
Training Kits" do not prep you for the exams??? That's
odd.
>-----Original Message-----
>"MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in
> news:111f101c41667$f9254b70$a0
01280a@phx.gbl:
>
looked[color=blue]
am[color=blue]
the[color=blue]
and[color=blue]
guide.[color=blue]
would[color=blue]
>
>Everyone who fails usually bashes the books then study
from. I have found
>that most Sybex and Coriolis books are pretty good. MS
Press are not bad for
>product reference, but because they don't specialize in
Certification
>preparation, then are not as good as the publishers that
do specialize in
>cert. prep.
>
>
>
>
>Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
>---
>MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification
Requirements
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
>--
>MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...requirements.as
p
>--
>Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
>--
>Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
>.
>
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 12:23 pm |
| no. sorry. i meant microsoft don't make as good cert prep materials as
other vendors like sybex or coriolis.
i know, i know. it's a broad generalization and grossly unfair to the fine
folks at MS Press. But that's been my experience thus far.
<anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in news:12e5401c41672$4e5eb950
$a601280a@phx.gbl:
> So, what you are saying is the "Microsoft MCSE Self-Paced
> Training Kits" do not prep you for the exams??? That's
> odd.
>
>
> in
> looked
> am
> the
> and
> guide.
> would
> from. I have found
> Press are not bad for
> Certification
> do specialize in
> Requirements
> p
>
Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
---
MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
--
MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...equirements.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 12:23 pm |
| >no. sorry. i meant microsoft don't make as good cert prep materials as
>other vendors like sybex or coriolis.
>
>i know, i know. it's a broad generalization and grossly unfair to the fine
>folks at MS Press. But that's been my experience thus far.
I agree.
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
| zenner 2004-03-30, 2:23 pm |
| There is a difference between the MS ref. books (which are sometimes too
technical for people who merely want exam, test simulation
material-however, they are great for gaining real detailed knowledge about
the subject and continue to be great ref. after you complete your exam/cert.
requirements. The newer self-study book, and manuals are not as detailed,
don't give in depth explanations of why things happen or interrelated
commands and extras. They are pretty much on track for touching the subjects
and commands that will come up on an exam. Personally, I find them a little
too simple, like a vegetarian pizza, where's the Beef?
To paint with broad strokes, If you want to gain knowledge about the
subject, get the reference books from MS. If you just need to brush up or
your main goal is to pass the test, get the exam, self-study, learn "X" in 7
days books either from MS or Sybex, Syngress or others. Transcenders or
Boson are decent for hands-on test simulations too!
Memorization, may help you pass the test, but it will not give you the
ability to trouble shoot new situations or problems...that comes from
intuitive knowledge, innate creativity or time spent with the product and
other people who have mastered the ins and outs, and are will and able to
pass it on to you.
"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
news:v28j60tbrnp011kbrluu9cldd
cba2g6tkq@4ax.com...
fine[color=blue]
>
> I agree.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.624 / Virus Database: 401 - Release Date: 3/15/2004
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 2:24 pm |
| "zenner" <zenner<nospam>> wrote in news:OaUcrBoFEHA.3080
@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
> Memorization, may help you pass the test, but it will not give you the
> ability to trouble shoot new situations or problems...that comes from
> intuitive knowledge, innate creativity or time spent with the product and
> other people who have mastered the ins and outs, and are will and able to
> pass it on to you.
Memorization is a waste of time. You are going to have to know the stuff if
you want to keep the job you get with the MCSE. So any way you look at it,
you are going to have to learn the material(s). Might as well start early and
get it over with.
Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
---
MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
--
MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...equirements.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
| |
| MCSE Newbee 2004-03-30, 2:26 pm |
| For my purposes, a technical jack-of-all-trades, I think
I'll be okay with the exam guides then. At this point in
my career I won't use the MCSE information in such a way
that would require the level of detailed knowledge that
you are referring to. If/when I do, I would need to bone
up anyway, and we may be up to Windows Server 2005 by
then. Thanks to all for your feedback and I'm sure you'll
see me on here from time to time asking for more advice.
>-----Original Message-----
>"zenner" <zenner<nospam>> wrote in news:OaUcrBoFEHA.3080
>@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
not give you the[color=blue]
problems...that comes from[color=blue]
with the product and[color=blue]
are will and able to[color=blue]
>
>Memorization is a waste of time. You are going to have to
know the stuff if
>you want to keep the job you get with the MCSE. So any
way you look at it,
>you are going to have to learn the material(s). Might as
well start early and
>get it over with.
>
>
>Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
>---
>MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification
Requirements
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
>--
>MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...requirements.as
p
>--
>Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
>--
>Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
>.
>
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 2:26 pm |
| >There is a difference between the MS ref. books (which are sometimes too
>technical for people who merely want exam, test simulation
>material-however, they are great for gaining real detailed knowledge about
>the subject and continue to be great ref. after you complete your exam/cert.
>requirements.
Err, is that not the point of the exams, to prove you have *gained*
detailed knowledge about subject !
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 2:26 pm |
| >Transcenders or
>Boson are decent for hands-on test simulations too!
Wow, being able to memorize answers to questions, just what the doctor
ordered.
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
| John Smith 2004-03-30, 3:24 pm |
| MS press books have good practice exercises, but the books read like a slow
death. sybex books read fast and prep decently for the exam. if you are
halfway intelligent, do well on exams, and do the practice exercises in
either book, you should be fine.
I've always felt that sybex (my personal fav) prepared me better for the
exams, the mspress books make better reference books.
"MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:111f101c41667$f9254b70$a0
01280a@phx.gbl...
> I am ready to begin my MCSE certification. I have looked
> at the class list and have chosen my curriculum. As I am
> looking at the MCSE self paced study kits many of the
> comments are "good book but does not prepare you for the
> exam". I do not have time to take the 2-5 day classes and
> was hoping to use the books as a self-paced study guide.
> If they are not going to prepare me properly for the
> exams, however, I don't see the point. Can anyone out
> there who has taken MCSE exams let me know what you would
> recommend?
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 3:25 pm |
| i don't get you post? are you saying you are going to dump becuase you don't
need all the MCSE knowledge right now, but in a few years time, you will do
it the proper way becuase then you will need it?
"MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:15d5d01c41687$343bb220$a4
01280a@phx.gbl:
> For my purposes, a technical jack-of-all-trades, I think
> I'll be okay with the exam guides then. At this point in
> my career I won't use the MCSE information in such a way
> that would require the level of detailed knowledge that
> you are referring to. If/when I do, I would need to bone
> up anyway, and we may be up to Windows Server 2005 by
> then. Thanks to all for your feedback and I'm sure you'll
> see me on here from time to time asking for more advice.
>
>
>
Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
---
MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
--
MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...equirements.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 3:25 pm |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
news:21gj60tdkc4bkatgomoujotro
bdbf763vr@4ax.com:
exam/cert.[color=blue]
>
> Err, is that not the point of the exams, to prove you have *gained*
> detailed knowledge about subject !
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
good point. i never thought of it that way.
question is, from a writers point of view, for a cert. prep book/guide, they
would be trying to cram as much info. directly pertaining to the M$'s exam
coverage into a 700 page book.
with a tech. reference book series, they can go all over the place is as much
endless detail as they want. they are not commiting to sticking to the exam
coverage material.
i got the win2k res kit books. they are excellent. but there is tons of stuff
that would never get covered in an exam. plus they cost a fortune compared to
exam prep. (at least they did when they first came out)
;-)
Important Links Ranked In Order of Relevance:
---
MCSE on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
--
MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/m...equirements.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Certification Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp
--
Microsoft Certified Professional Info:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/default.asp
| |
| Andy Foster 2004-03-30, 3:26 pm |
| "MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:< 111f101c41667$f9254b70$a001280
a@phx.gbl>...
> I am ready to begin my MCSE certification. I have looked
> at the class list and have chosen my curriculum. As I am
> looking at the MCSE self paced study kits many of the
> comments are "good book but does not prepare you for the
> exam". I do not have time to take the 2-5 day classes and
> was hoping to use the books as a self-paced study guide.
> If they are not going to prepare me properly for the
> exams, however, I don't see the point. Can anyone out
> there who has taken MCSE exams let me know what you would
> recommend?
"Hands-on experience for Dummies"
(ISBN: 019840419X) - published by John Wiley & Sons Inc
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 4:24 pm |
| >question is, from a writers point of view, for a cert. prep book/guide, they
>would be trying to cram as much info. directly pertaining to the M$'s exam
>coverage into a 700 page book.
>
>with a tech. reference book series, they can go all over the place is as much
>endless detail as they want. they are not commiting to sticking to the exam
>coverage material.
>
>i got the win2k res kit books. they are excellent. but there is tons of stuff
>that would never get covered in an exam. plus they cost a fortune compared to
>exam prep. (at least they did when they first came out)
Well that's easy to answer. I take the exam prep guides, use the index
in the books (including the resource kits, which are excellent) to
find information related to the topics in the prep guides; I then take
notes. Naturally I have an understanding of the subject matter which
seems to be missing from many of the people posting here today.
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
|
|
| zenner 2004-03-30, 4:24 pm |
| Both of you have take the extreme view of general comment.
1. Deciding that it isn't necessary to get into the detail, because it time
consuming, too detailed or will probably be replaced in a few years is
nothing less than a blatant rationalization. To follow up that comment by
saying you will come here to get advice when needed explains the whole point
of getting into the detailed study of a subject, it is better (personal
opinion) to be the one with the answer than the one with the questions. A
lot of times the answers you get are not the ones that really solve your
problem, but you wouldn't know that, because???
2. Memorization has its merits, I still rely on the "ABC" song I learned in
Kindergarten, as well as the multiplication tables 2's thru 12's learned in
elementary school and the geometry, algebra from middle and senior high
school...if you admit it to yourself, you probably do to. The silent song
that goes thru your head when you are looking up a name in the phone
book...you never noticed it? Still that wasn't my point, I hope I don't
sound too parental, but you need to read the whole message to get the idea
being discussed. It is a remarkable sign of today, when people spend more
time finding something to criticize than in trying to grasp the gist of what
is being said. If I gave the impression that I was or am an advocate of
memorizing your way through an exam, then I apologize. But, if that was the
point, there are many other resources that are more worthy of memorizing
than Transcender or Boson (I have never heard that they use real questions
from current tests, so even if you memorized every Transcenders, every Boson
or other legitimate simulation...you would still not pass using those
sources alone), their value lies in pointing out your areas of weakness,
which should cause you to focus on those areas when you get a manual, text
book or self study reader. We all have areas of weakness, so the drill is to
bring those areas up to the level of your strengths. The simulated exams are
great for that purpose.
"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
news:21gj60tdkc4bkatgomoujotro
bdbf763vr@4ax.com...
about[color=blue]
exam/cert.[color=blue]
>
> Err, is that not the point of the exams, to prove you have *gained*
> detailed knowledge about subject !
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.624 / Virus Database: 401 - Release Date: 3/15/2004
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 4:24 pm |
| >> Well that's easy to answer. I take the exam prep guides, use the index
>
>for you, mr. magoo...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2x8da
Strange that, since I've recently been called 'elitist' (amongst other
things!) in the mcsd ng.
very true though.
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere 2004-03-30, 4:24 pm |
| >1. Deciding that it isn't necessary to get into the detail, because it time
>consuming, too detailed or will probably be replaced in a few years is
>nothing less than a blatant rationalization. To follow up that comment by
>saying you will come here to get advice when needed explains the whole point
>of getting into the detailed study of a subject, it is better (personal
>opinion) to be the one with the answer than the one with the questions. A
>lot of times the answers you get are not the ones that really solve your
>problem, but you wouldn't know that, because???
It all comes down to experience. With experience (and common sense)
one 'learns' how best to solve problems and know where to look for
answers to those problems.
>2. Memorization has its merits, I still rely on the "ABC" song I learned in
>Kindergarten, as well as the multiplication tables 2's thru 12's learned in
>elementary school and the geometry, algebra from middle and senior high
>school...if you admit it to yourself, you probably do to. The silent song
>that goes thru your head when you are looking up a name in the phone
>book...you never noticed it? Still that wasn't my point, I hope I don't
>sound too parental, but you need to read the whole message to get the idea
>being discussed. It is a remarkable sign of today, when people spend more
>time finding something to criticize than in trying to grasp the gist of what
>is being said. If I gave the impression that I was or am an advocate of
>memorizing your way through an exam, then I apologize. But, if that was the
>point, there are many other resources that are more worthy of memorizing
>than Transcender or Boson (I have never heard that they use real questions
>from current tests, so even if you memorized every Transcenders, every Boson
>or other legitimate simulation...you would still not pass using those
>sources alone), their value lies in pointing out your areas of weakness,
>which should cause you to focus on those areas when you get a manual, text
>book or self study reader. We all have areas of weakness, so the drill is to
>bring those areas up to the level of your strengths. The simulated exams are
>great for that purpose.
I think you should have posted this to the [sub] thread started by
Rowdy.
Anyway, I totally agree with your 'original' point: -
<quote poster='zenner'>
Memorization, may help you pass the test, but it will not give you the
ability to trouble shoot new situations or problems...that comes from
intuitive knowledge, innate creativity or time spent with the product
and
other people who have mastered the ins and outs, and are will and able
to
pass it on to you.
</quote>
The fact is that when 'some' people look for 'practice' test products,
they do so hoping the product(s) will contain questions and answers
close to the real ones. As such it is easy, to 'memorize' the answers
without understanding the actual questions.
One should be able to deduce the 'areas of weakness' by using the exam
prep guide and being honest with oneself as to the topics which one
does not understand. The 'simulated exams' would indeed be great for
that purpose, if they only gave you links to resources which contained
the answers and NOT the answers themselves. After all, you're not
given the answers to the 'actual' questions after the exam are you....
Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
| |
|
| The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
news:s9mj60t1u1r0ir3hq9otqt5uf
2l4o0lvej@4ax.com:
> The fact is that when 'some' people look for 'practice' test products,
> they do so hoping the product(s) will contain questions and answers
> close to the real ones. As such it is easy, to 'memorize' the answers
> without understanding the actual questions.
cripes Kline, I can see you doing your best Dr. Evil impersonation with the
quotes...snicker
--
Neil
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
| |
| Tom Kelsall 2004-03-30, 5:24 pm |
| Rowdy Yates <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in
news:Xns94BC91808BC2Browdyyate
s2123@207.46.248.16:
No, he's saying that he's going to use the MS Exams Guides, because he
doesn't need any experience right now. His job won't take him to the
places where he'll need to use in-depth knowledge and the intuitive "feel"
for Win2k that some of us know so well. He wants the MCSE (for now) as a
piece of paper.
Me, I prefer to get the in-depth knowledge and experience FIRST, and then
certify it with a MS Certification.
MCSE Newbee - remember that MCSE is not like a degree - it's not a
*QUALIFICATION*. It's a certification of EXISTING KNOWLEDGE. If you don't
have the existing knowledge, then get an A+ and an N+ first... work with
the product, and get the certification later. Oh, I don't know - get an
MCP in Windows 2000 Server and Professional maybe; but an MCSE without
experience is like a fish without fins - can live underwater but can do
f**k all with it...
> i don't get you post? <Snip>
| |
| Tom Kelsall 2004-03-30, 6:23 pm |
| Which is why I have never fully understood how anyone can rely on
braindumps to pass their MCSE... who the hell knows what questions they got
right and what they got wrong? You're not even given a score...
The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
news:s9mj60t1u1r0ir3hq9otqt5uf
2l4o0lvej@4ax.com:
> After all, you're not
> given the answers to the 'actual' questions after the exam are you....
>
| |
| Tom Kelsall 2004-03-30, 6:23 pm |
| I agree; I loathe the MSPress books; I find the read dry and
uninteresting (like wot you said John). Sybex however at least try to
make the read semi-interesting, and populate the books with useful
examples and anecdotes; some of which can actually stretch as high as
"mildly amusing".
"John Smith" <jsmith@macroshaft.com> wrote in
news:Z_udnd_fpu-_WfTdRVn-jw@comcast.com:
> MS press books have good practice exercises, but the books read like a
> slow death. sybex books read fast and prep decently for the exam. if
> you are halfway intelligent, do well on exams, and do the practice
> exercises in either book, you should be fine.
> I've always felt that sybex (my personal fav) prepared me better for
> the exams, the mspress books make better reference books.
>
>
> "MCSE Newbee" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:111f101c41667$f9254b70$a0
01280a@phx.gbl...
>
>
>
| |
|
| In a way, memorizing does come into play with MS exams... permissions... OSI
model... port numbers... IRQs... memory addresses... permissions...
native/mixed mode.... these are just a few... perhaps memorization is the
wrong term... in this case, I think since I can only guess at your true
meaning, the term I would use is repetition... you see the same data over
and over in texts, hands on experience, labs, online resources (ie technet),
etc and you do tend to memorize details thru repetitive exposure... I
remember on my CCNA course we had a quick subnetting table that I memorized
to help me do very quick subnetting so I could do those questions quickly
and move on to the more difficult questions... it was the power of 2
table... 2^2=4, 2^3 = 8, etc... but it was repetitive as I used it daily for
a month... now I know it well enough to subnet in my head (for the most
part) and it is now helping me with my CCNP studies... so I think you are
right ... I just disagree with the terminology 
--
Sue MCNGP #69
"zenner @pacbell.net>" <zenner<nospam> wrote in message
news:jLkac.16665$AL.6392@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> Both of you have take the extreme view of general comment.
>
> 1. Deciding that it isn't necessary to get into the detail, because it
time
> consuming, too detailed or will probably be replaced in a few years is
> nothing less than a blatant rationalization. To follow up that comment by
> saying you will come here to get advice when needed explains the whole
point
> of getting into the detailed study of a subject, it is better (personal
> opinion) to be the one with the answer than the one with the questions. A
> lot of times the answers you get are not the ones that really solve your
> problem, but you wouldn't know that, because???
>
> 2. Memorization has its merits, I still rely on the "ABC" song I learned
in
> Kindergarten, as well as the multiplication tables 2's thru 12's learned
in
> elementary school and the geometry, algebra from middle and senior high
> school...if you admit it to yourself, you probably do to. The silent song
> that goes thru your head when you are looking up a name in the phone
> book...you never noticed it? Still that wasn't my point, I hope I don't
> sound too parental, but you need to read the whole message to get the idea
> being discussed. It is a remarkable sign of today, when people spend more
> time finding something to criticize than in trying to grasp the gist of
what
> is being said. If I gave the impression that I was or am an advocate of
> memorizing your way through an exam, then I apologize. But, if that was
the
> point, there are many other resources that are more worthy of memorizing
> than Transcender or Boson (I have never heard that they use real questions
> from current tests, so even if you memorized every Transcenders, every
Boson
> or other legitimate simulation...you would still not pass using those
> sources alone), their value lies in pointing out your areas of weakness,
> which should cause you to focus on those areas when you get a manual, text
> book or self study reader. We all have areas of weakness, so the drill is
to
> bring those areas up to the level of your strengths. The simulated exams
are
> great for that purpose.
> "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
> news:21gj60tdkc4bkatgomoujotro
bdbf763vr@4ax.com...
too[color=blue]
> about
> exam/cert.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.624 / Virus Database: 401 - Release Date: 3/15/2004
>
>
| |
| Rowdy Yates 2004-03-30, 11:24 pm |
| "zenner" <zenner<nospam>@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:jLkac.16665$AL.6392@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com:
>
> 1. Deciding that it isn't necessary to get into the detail, because it
> time consuming, too detailed or will probably be replaced in a few
> years is nothing less than a blatant rationalization.
I think my familairity with Win 2000 and knowledge gained from studying MCSE
Win 2000 curiculum, greatly helped me with with understanding Win 2003.
but i still can't agree with your resoning. why bother "half-XXX" learning
something just because it's not going to be around for a long time?
MCSE Newbie stated he wants to get his MCSE. He also stated:
"At this point in my career I won't use the MCSE information in such a way
that would require the level of detailed knowledge that you are referring to"
i just don't get it. why does he want the MCSE paper for then? what is he
going to say to someone who asks for detailed support on the "product" he is
certified for as an MCSE?
The MCSE does not mean he is a genius. It just means he has(should have!)
very advanced knowledge of the version of MS Windows Server he is certified
in. right?
--
Rowdy Yates
-------------------------------
Death to the Gypsy Kings!
-------------------------------
I am Against-TCPA
http://www.againsttcpa.com
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