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| S. O'Brien 2003-09-23, 2:23 pm |
| "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said
finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was
critical to his company's future.
"We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for
the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced
education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
don't you just feel so loved?
--
Sue MCNGP #69
http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort."
Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ug9CCffgDHA.2352@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
>
> --
> Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
> www.mcngp.tk
>
>
>
| |
| Glenn D. Crosse 2003-09-23, 2:23 pm |
| Are they also going to deny visas to foreigners with expired MCSE 2000
certifications?
Wondering.
Glenn
"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ug9CCffgDHA.2352@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
>
> --
> Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
> www.mcngp.tk
>
>
>
| |
|
| "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said
> finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was
> critical to his company's future.
>
> "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future
for
> the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the
advanced
> education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
>
>
Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search for local
talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
In particular, note:
"Working Conditions:
ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This is a 24
hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a dream
job, huh?
--
J.R. Jones
A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
| |
| Ken Briscoe 2003-09-23, 2:23 pm |
| > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search for
local
> talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
>
> In particular, note:
>
> "Working Conditions:
>
> ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This is a
24
> hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
>
> ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
>
> I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a dream
> job, huh?
>
Not to defend them, because I really have no idea what their recruiting
practices are, but at the top of that page, it does say the job is in
Canada, eh. I'd rather have the H1B guys going to Canada than come here to
the States, eh. Steal the Canadians' jobs, eh. Not mine, eh.
KB, eh
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-23, 2:23 pm |
| circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:27:23 -0700, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Consultant
(consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com) said,
> A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
>
So they'll just outsource more.
Laura
--
Memories were meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason.
-Mace, Strange Days
| |
|
| "Laura A. Robinson" < firstinitiallastname@technolog
ist.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19da55f9d78099ff98a943@msnews.microsoft.com...
> circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:27:23 -0700, in
> microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Consultant
> (consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com) said,
> > A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
> >
> So they'll just outsource more.
You can only outsource so much. It will hit a peak. But the H-1B issues
are not the real problem here -- it is the L1 visas. NOTHING is being done
about those. While we were screaming and yelling about H-1B, they began to
utilize an old program called L1 that has virtually no limits. Time to
start screaming and yelling about that to our politicians.
| |
|
| > So they'll just outsource more.
Stormcloud.
| |
|
| I think Intel has "global" hiring frozen in place right now.
But I also know that Intel actually is actively hiring in China and other
countries. My friend at Intel (not USA) told me that the number of
employees at his site doubled in the past one year.
"S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said
> finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was
> critical to his company's future.
>
> "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future
for
> the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the
advanced
> education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
>
> don't you just feel so loved?
>
> --
> Sue MCNGP #69
> http://www.mcngp.tk
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> enough people to make it worth the effort."
> Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
>
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ug9CCffgDHA.2352@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
> >
> > --
> > Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
> > www.mcngp.tk
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-23, 4:23 pm |
| circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:41:05 -0700, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Jtyc (yo@respondtothegroup.com)
said,
> > So they'll just outsource more.
>
> Stormcloud.
>
Realist.
--
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
-Groucho Marx
| |
|
|
|
| So what do you really want? Suppose US shutdown the H1 program completely,
more jobs will then go overseas by outsourcing. While you can limit the H1
program by laws/policies, it's hard to limit the outsourcing by laws.
Each H1 job will also create several other related jobs in US, as H1 workers
are also consumers of US market. Outsourcing, however, removes consumers
from US market (by layoff) and creates consumers and (other related) jobs
abroad.
While I don't think it's a good idea to control how companies do business, I
do think H1 program is much better than outsourcing.
"Ken Briscoe" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:eYSU2xfgDHA.2080@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search for
> local
> > talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
> >
> > In particular, note:
> >
> > "Working Conditions:
> >
> > ?Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This is a
> 24
> > hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
> >
> > ?Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
> >
> > I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a dream
> > job, huh?
> >
>
>
> Not to defend them, because I really have no idea what their recruiting
> practices are, but at the top of that page, it does say the job is in
> Canada, eh. I'd rather have the H1B guys going to Canada than come here to
> the States, eh. Steal the Canadians' jobs, eh. Not mine, eh.
>
> KB, eh
>
>
| |
| Kendal Emery 2003-09-23, 4:23 pm |
| My favorite is "And what salary range are you expecting to get in this
position" Why don't you just tell me what you want to pay. If it fits into
what I wnat to make, then I'll apply, and if not then we can save everyone a
bunch of time.
> Seems a lot of employers are going that route these days... or using the
> line "to be negotiated"... yeah RIGHT!! like a potential employee has
much
> say in how much they get paid. Can you see the conversation now? HR:
"Yes,
> we will offer you $10/hr." Applicant: "I want $15." HR: "Yes, we will
> offer you $10/hr." The only negotiation in it will be take the wages they
> offer or look elsewhere. The one I love is "Depending on experience"...
get
> real!! They already know they are going to offer you less than they KNOW
> you are worth but know that the economy sucks so much that they can get
away
> with it! I had a guy tell me in an interview that getting paid $9.50/hr
was
> the best I could hope for with my experience and qualifications... I don't
> THINK so. Then he tried to tell me about how the IT field has gone to
hell
> and that qualified employees are not getting what they used to. That
> comment was fine but the job in question wanted my High School
transcripts,
> not my college ones!!! So they pay a high school grad the same amount as
a
> college grad and expect me to swallow those wages??? And they expect me
to
> believe that I can't do better??? HA! The jobs are out there, its just a
> matter of getting in everyone's face until you find a decent one (not the
> dream job perhaps but better than one that pays an uneducated kid the same
> amount as a experienced, educated, mature adult!)
>
Kendal R. Emery, MCSE, Network+, A+, MCNGP #19
Systems Administrator
Coordinated Home Care
kemery@coordinatedhomec
are.me.com
remove me to email to me
> Or maybe I'm just being picky but I have the time to look further and
won't
> settle for that type of job unless it comes down to the line and I need a
> job right NOW! That day hasn't come yet so I think I'll wait out the time
> and see what comes up.
>
> Sue
>
>
| |
| Dragon 2003-09-23, 4:23 pm |
| So True.
I took a 'temp' job paying only 17/hour and it took me about 8 months to
find a real job which pays decent and repects what you can do for the
company. In this market, jobs are out there but you will only find them if
you know someone or are extremely lucky. The job I am working at right now
was never even posted. I found out about it from a friend. so right now,,,
it's all about who you know.
"S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
news:bkq1n9$b1f$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> news:exJH%23pfgDHA.2172@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation,
said[
color=darkred]
> > > finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was
> > > critical to his company's future.
> > >
> > > "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the[/color]
future
> > for
> > > the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the
> > advanced
> > > education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search for
> local
> > talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
> >
> > In particular, note:
> >
> > "Working Conditions:
> >
> > ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This is a
> 24
> > hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
> >
> > ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
> >
> > I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a dream
> > job, huh?
> >
> > --
> > J.R. Jones
> > A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
> >
> >
> Seems a lot of employers are going that route these days... or using the
> line "to be negotiated"... yeah RIGHT!! like a potential employee has
much
> say in how much they get paid. Can you see the conversation now? HR:
"Yes,
> we will offer you $10/hr." Applicant: "I want $15." HR: "Yes, we will
> offer you $10/hr." The only negotiation in it will be take the wages they
> offer or look elsewhere. The one I love is "Depending on experience"...
get
> real!! They already know they are going to offer you less than they KNOW
> you are worth but know that the economy sucks so much that they can get
away
> with it! I had a guy tell me in an interview that getting paid $9.50/hr
was
> the best I could hope for with my experience and qualifications... I don't
> THINK so. Then he tried to tell me about how the IT field has gone to
hell
> and that qualified employees are not getting what they used to. That
> comment was fine but the job in question wanted my High School
transcripts,
> not my college ones!!! So they pay a high school grad the same amount as
a
> college grad and expect me to swallow those wages??? And they expect me
to
> believe that I can't do better??? HA! The jobs are out there, its just a
> matter of getting in everyone's face until you find a decent one (not the
> dream job perhaps but better than one that pays an uneducated kid the same
> amount as a experienced, educated, mature adult!)
>
> Or maybe I'm just being picky but I have the time to look further and
won't
> settle for that type of job unless it comes down to the line and I need a
> job right NOW! That day hasn't come yet so I think I'll wait out the time
> and see what comes up.
>
> Sue
>
>
| |
| Dragon 2003-09-23, 4:23 pm |
| MCSE 2000 'certification' does not expire.... :-)
MCSE 2000 can and do expire but I doubt they want to come to the US once
they are expired. It's no use to them.
"Glenn D. Crosse" <glenncrosse@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%2382jnkfgDHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Are they also going to deny visas to foreigners with expired MCSE 2000
> certifications?
> Wondering.
> Glenn
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ug9CCffgDHA.2352@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > A light at the end of the tunnel for US workers?
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/im...reut/index.html
> >
> > --
> > Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
> > www.mcngp.tk
> >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| S. O'Brien 2003-09-23, 4:23 pm |
| lol "only 17/hr" huh? hehe well I'm just starting out and would be happy
with 12+... the 9.5 wasnt enough to cover day care costs much less rent,
food, electricity, internet... lol you know... the essentials. And keep in
mind, my figures are in Canadian funds... so even worse. But then, I don't
expect to be making 20+/hr this early in the game but please dont insult my
intelligence and tell me I dont deserve better than some kid off the streets
with no education!! You and I know better! The economy may suck but this
is really getting idiotic the way the HR people think they can pay the same
wages to someone who is fully trained! I saw a job ad once that said the
job was entry level but was requesting MCSE and a few others! AND they
wanted experience! How can you have experience for an entry level position?
Its almost oxy-moronic in a way. There is nothing below entry level... once
you have experience at entry level you move UP! It doesn't make sense to
me... but then... who am I to say? I'm just a fool unemployed MCSE, MCSA+M,
CCNA, CNA, A+ with almost 12 years experience in customer service
(government!) and another 7 in the public sector. Sure I dont have much IT
experience (very little but some) but they do look at the customer service
experience as well. That much I do know. So what this guy was saying to me
was (and this basically is what peeved me off the most) that you are no
better than someone who did nothing for 17 years except high school! Hell I
have been working for longer than they have been alive! Oh christ! Now I
feel OLD!! lol
At this point I have been looking for jobs but also thinking of hiring
myself! Self-employment... and not even in the IT field. Go figure! I
haven't decided if I want to give up yet but with moronic individuals
holding down HR positions who don't know the difference between educated and
not, there isn't much hope for many.
But for now, I'm just going to annoy the hell out of the companies out there
until they tell me to go away or I get a job! lol. May or may not pan out.
It's a waiting game for now!
ok I'm done ... *gets off the soap box* NEXT!!
--
Sue MCNGP #69
http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort."
Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
"Dragon" <NoSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ZuVVjggDHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> So True.
>
> I took a 'temp' job paying only 17/hour and it took me about 8 months to
> find a real job which pays decent and repects what you can do for the
> company. In this market, jobs are out there but you will only find them if
> you know someone or are extremely lucky. The job I am working at right now
> was never even posted. I found out about it from a friend. so right now,,,
> it's all about who you know.
>
> "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> news:bkq1n9$b1f$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> > news:exJH%23pfgDHA.2172@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > > "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation,
> said
> > > > finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world
was[c
olor=darkred]
> > > > critical to his company's future.
> > > >
> > > > "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the
> future
> > > for
> > > > the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the
> > > advanced
> > > > education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search for
> > local
> > > talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
> > >
> > > In particular, note:
> > >
> > > "Working Conditions:
> > >
> > > ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This is[/color]
a
> > 24
> > > hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
> > >
> > > ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
> > >
> > > I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a
dream
> > > job, huh?
> > >
> > > --
> > > J.R. Jones
> > > A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
> > >
> > >
> > Seems a lot of employers are going that route these days... or using the
> > line "to be negotiated"... yeah RIGHT!! like a potential employee has
> much
> > say in how much they get paid. Can you see the conversation now? HR:
> "Yes,
> > we will offer you $10/hr." Applicant: "I want $15." HR: "Yes, we will
> > offer you $10/hr." The only negotiation in it will be take the wages
they
> > offer or look elsewhere. The one I love is "Depending on experience"...
> get
> > real!! They already know they are going to offer you less than they
KNOW
> > you are worth but know that the economy sucks so much that they can get
> away
> > with it! I had a guy tell me in an interview that getting paid $9.50/hr
> was
> > the best I could hope for with my experience and qualifications... I
don't
> > THINK so. Then he tried to tell me about how the IT field has gone to
> hell
> > and that qualified employees are not getting what they used to. That
> > comment was fine but the job in question wanted my High School
> transcripts,
> > not my college ones!!! So they pay a high school grad the same amount
as
> a
> > college grad and expect me to swallow those wages??? And they expect me
> to
> > believe that I can't do better??? HA! The jobs are out there, its just
a
> > matter of getting in everyone's face until you find a decent one (not
the
> > dream job perhaps but better than one that pays an uneducated kid the
same
> > amount as a experienced, educated, mature adult!)
> >
> > Or maybe I'm just being picky but I have the time to look further and
> won't
> > settle for that type of job unless it comes down to the line and I need
a
> > job right NOW! That day hasn't come yet so I think I'll wait out the
time
> > and see what comes up.
> >
> > Sue
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
|
"Tommy" <tommy@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:eTQnShggDHA.2400@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> So what do you really want? Suppose US shutdown the H1 program
completely,
> more jobs will then go overseas by outsourcing.
They already are doing this, the H1b program allows them to hire on a
non-competitive basis and train workers to take their technologies overseas.
>While you can limit the H1
> program by laws/policies,
Theoretically true, however the record of enforcement of existing laws is
appalling if not non-existant.
>it's hard to limit the outsourcing by laws.
No, it's not. It needs to be looked at when even the government has policies
in place to outsource jobs. see:
http://accenture.ca/xd/xd.asp?xd=in...5Cinsi_path.xml
google for more if you are so inclined "government outsourcing" got 4800
hits.
>
> Each H1 job will also create several other related jobs in US, as H1
workers
This assumes that the H1 job is a new one, not replacing a current worker,
or job-seeker.
> are also consumers of US market. Outsourcing, however, removes consumers
> from US market (by layoff) and creates consumers and (other related) jobs
> abroad.
>
No argument there.
> While I don't think it's a good idea to control how companies do business,
I
> do think H1 program is much better than outsourcing.
>
>
Better of two evils? The two go hand in hand putting workers on the
unemployment line. As long as we have to put up with the cost of living and
unreal taxation that most countries in the developed world are forced to
contend with. It should be little enough to ask that our legislators do
something to ensure that we can afford to exist.
If I could attain the standard of living that an Indian living in Bangalore
can have at $12000 per year, no problem. In the US, however, this puts one
at the poverty level.
--
J.R. Jones
A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
| |
|
| "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:%23IHbavggDHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> >it's hard to limit the outsourcing by laws.
>
> No, it's not. It needs to be looked at when even the government has
policies
> in place to outsource jobs. see:
>
> http://accenture.ca/xd/xd.asp?xd=in...5Cinsi_path.xml
>
> google for more if you are so inclined "government outsourcing" got 4800
> hits.
>
So how can you **naturally** ask a company who is registered in some Pacific
island how to do its business? Remember, nowadays, there is no more
"American Company". Most companies will be "International Companies" and
register the company in some island countries.
I think it's you people against the H1 program who forced the outsourcing
favors.
| |
|
|
"Tommy" <tommy@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:uH0Hz5ggDHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> So how can you **naturally** ask a company who is registered in some
Pacific
> island how to do its business? Remember, nowadays, there is no more
> "American Company". Most companies will be "International Companies" and
> register the company in some island countries.
>
> I think it's you people against the H1 program who forced the outsourcing
> favors.
>
>
>
Oh, brother, it's good to debate with a clear thinking individual.
<Emily Latella>
Never Mind
</Emily Latella>
JaR
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-23, 5:23 pm |
| circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:26:25 -0700, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Jtyc (yo@respondtothegroup.com)
said,
> > Realist.
>
> Communist!
>
That's "Wings fan" to you, bub.
--
I am Dyslexia of Borg,
Your XXX will be laminated.
| |
|
| > That's "Wings fan" to you, bub.
Satanist.
I would mock your football team but I get the feeling that your not a real
football fan.
takes all the fun outa it.
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-23, 5:23 pm |
| circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:41:15 -0700, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Jtyc (yo@respondtothegroup.com)
said,
> > That's "Wings fan" to you, bub.
>
> Satanist.
>
My sister said she is going to name her first daughter after me since
she's one of the beneficiaries on my life insurance. She plans to
call the child "Laura Mephistopheles <last name>".
IOW, my family has beaten you to your conclusion and upped the ante.
:-)
Laura
--
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
-Groucho Marx
| |
| Dragon 2003-09-23, 7:23 pm |
| I completely understand where you are coming from. Even though there is a
difference in Salary, while making $17/hour it was like, shall we pay the
mortgage or buy milk for the baby...
You typical HR moron have now heard the buzz word like MCSE, CCNA, etc etc,
and now they think for pennies they should be able to hire one person with
all these qualifications regardless of personal attitude, experience, or
education. I have 12 years of IT experience and it took me 8 months to find
a decent job. I can imagine what is happening to new comers.
"S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
news:bkq87a$d67$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> lol "only 17/hr" huh? hehe well I'm just starting out and would be happy
> with 12+... the 9.5 wasnt enough to cover day care costs much less rent,
> food, electricity, internet... lol you know... the essentials. And keep
in
> mind, my figures are in Canadian funds... so even worse. But then, I
don't
> expect to be making 20+/hr this early in the game but please dont insult
my
> intelligence and tell me I dont deserve better than some kid off the
streets
> with no education!! You and I know better! The economy may suck but this
> is really getting idiotic the way the HR people think they can pay the
same
> wages to someone who is fully trained! I saw a job ad once that said the
> job was entry level but was requesting MCSE and a few others! AND they
> wanted experience! How can you have experience for an entry level
position?
> Its almost oxy-moronic in a way. There is nothing below entry level...
once
> you have experience at entry level you move UP! It doesn't make sense to
> me... but then... who am I to say? I'm just a fool unemployed MCSE,
MCSA+M,
> CCNA, CNA, A+ with almost 12 years experience in customer service
> (government!) and another 7 in the public sector. Sure I dont have much
IT
> experience (very little but some) but they do look at the customer service
> experience as well. That much I do know. So what this guy was saying to
me
> was (and this basically is what peeved me off the most) that you are no
> better than someone who did nothing for 17 years except high school! Hell
I
> have been working for longer than they have been alive! Oh christ! Now I
> feel OLD!! lol
>
> At this point I have been looking for jobs but also thinking of hiring
> myself! Self-employment... and not even in the IT field. Go figure! I
> haven't decided if I want to give up yet but with moronic individuals
> holding down HR positions who don't know the difference between educated
and
> not, there isn't much hope for many.
>
> But for now, I'm just going to annoy the hell out of the companies out
there
> until they tell me to go away or I get a job! lol. May or may not pan
out.
> It's a waiting game for now!
>
> ok I'm done ... *gets off the soap box* NEXT!!
>
> --
> Sue MCNGP #69
> http://www.mcngp.tk
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> enough people to make it worth the effort."
> Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
>
> "Dragon" <NoSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23ZuVVjggDHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > So True.
> >
> > I took a 'temp' job paying only 17/hour and it took me about 8 months to
> > find a real job which pays decent and repects what you can do for the
> > company. In this market, jobs are out there but you will only find them
if
> > you know someone or are extremely lucky. The job I am working at right
now
> > was never even posted. I found out about it from a friend. so right
now,,,
> > it's all about who you know.
> >
> > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > news:bkq1n9$b1f$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> > > news:exJH%23pfgDHA.2172@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > > > "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel
Corporation,[color
=green]
> > said
> > > > > finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world
> was
> > > > > critical to his company's future.
> > > > >
> > > > > "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the
> > future
> > > > for
> > > > > the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the
> > > > advanced
> > > > > education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search[/color]
for[c
olor=darkred]
> > > local
> > > > talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
> > > >
> > > > In particular, note:
> > > >
> > > > "Working Conditions:
> > > >
> > > > ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required. This[/color]
is
> a
> > > 24
> > > > hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
> > > >
> > > > ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
> > > >
> > > > I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a
> dream
> > > > job, huh?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > J.R. Jones
> > > > A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Seems a lot of employers are going that route these days... or using
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > > line "to be negotiated"... yeah RIGHT!! like a potential employee has
> > much
> > > say in how much they get paid. Can you see the conversation now? HR:
> > "Yes,
> > > we will offer you $10/hr." Applicant: "I want $15." HR: "Yes, we[/color]
will[
color=darkred]
> > > offer you $10/hr." The only negotiation in it will be take the wages
> they
> > > offer or look elsewhere. The one I love is "Depending on[/color]
experience"...
> > get
> > > real!! They already know they are going to offer you less than they
> KNOW
> > > you are worth but know that the economy sucks so much that they can
get
> > away
> > > with it! I had a guy tell me in an interview that getting paid
$9.50/hr
> > was
> > > the best I could hope for with my experience and qualifications... I
> don't
> > > THINK so. Then he tried to tell me about how the IT field has gone to
> > hell
> > > and that qualified employees are not getting what they used to. That
> > > comment was fine but the job in question wanted my High School
> > transcripts,
> > > not my college ones!!! So they pay a high school grad the same amount
> as
> > a
> > > college grad and expect me to swallow those wages??? And they expect
me
> > to
> > > believe that I can't do better??? HA! The jobs are out there, its
just
> a
> > > matter of getting in everyone's face until you find a decent one (not
> the
> > > dream job perhaps but better than one that pays an uneducated kid the
> same
> > > amount as a experienced, educated, mature adult!)
> > >
> > > Or maybe I'm just being picky but I have the time to look further and
> > won't
> > > settle for that type of job unless it comes down to the line and I
need
> a
> > > job right NOW! That day hasn't come yet so I think I'll wait out the
> time
> > > and see what comes up.
> > >
> > > Sue
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
| S. O'Brien 2003-09-23, 7:23 pm |
| I kinda figured that... just thought I would make a joke of it as you
obviously caught 
I graduated last june and have really only held one job that was inside the
field (Tech support - call center). The other two jobs I had were sales
(computer store) and another call center job but not tech. I left my tech
support job in June to move provinces or I would still be there. I was even
up for promotion to Product Specialist (after only 3 months that wasnt too
bad). Now in the 3 months I have been living here, the only bites I have so
far are the two job offers that were way under what I could afford to take.
So it has been over a year and I did manage to find an OK job but now I find
I am starting all over again... does that mean I have another year to wait?
Good God I hope not!
As for the HR people, they can get away with it because there are so many of
us unemployed, we will take just about anything to feed our families, keep
the house, keep off social assistance... they know it... so they do it. The
only way to stop them would be for everyone to refuse to work those wages...
and we know that is not going to happen! Damned if we do, damned if we
don't senario.
Sue
"Dragon" <nospam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OZ5d1EigDHA.2084@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I completely understand where you are coming from. Even though there is a
> difference in Salary, while making $17/hour it was like, shall we pay the
> mortgage or buy milk for the baby...
> You typical HR moron have now heard the buzz word like MCSE, CCNA, etc
etc,
> and now they think for pennies they should be able to hire one person with
> all these qualifications regardless of personal attitude, experience, or
> education. I have 12 years of IT experience and it took me 8 months to
find
> a decent job. I can imagine what is happening to new comers.
>
>
> "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> news:bkq87a$d67$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > lol "only 17/hr" huh? hehe well I'm just starting out and would be happy
> > with 12+... the 9.5 wasnt enough to cover day care costs much less rent,
> > food, electricity, internet... lol you know... the essentials. And keep
> in
> > mind, my figures are in Canadian funds... so even worse. But then, I
> don't
> > expect to be making 20+/hr this early in the game but please dont insult
> my
> > intelligence and tell me I dont deserve better than some kid off the
> streets
> > with no education!! You and I know better! The economy may suck but
this
> > is really getting idiotic the way the HR people think they can pay the
> same
> > wages to someone who is fully trained! I saw a job ad once that said
the
> > job was entry level but was requesting MCSE and a few others! AND they
> > wanted experience! How can you have experience for an entry level
> position?
> > Its almost oxy-moronic in a way. There is nothing below entry level...
> once
> > you have experience at entry level you move UP! It doesn't make sense
to
> > me... but then... who am I to say? I'm just a fool unemployed MCSE,
> MCSA+M,
> > CCNA, CNA, A+ with almost 12 years experience in customer service
> > (government!) and another 7 in the public sector. Sure I dont have much
> IT
> > experience (very little but some) but they do look at the customer
service
> > experience as well. That much I do know. So what this guy was saying
to
> me
> > was (and this basically is what peeved me off the most) that you are no
> > better than someone who did nothing for 17 years except high school!
Hell
> I
> > have been working for longer than they have been alive! Oh christ! Now
I
> > feel OLD!! lol
> >
> > At this point I have been looking for jobs but also thinking of hiring
> > myself! Self-employment... and not even in the IT field. Go figure! I
> > haven't decided if I want to give up yet but with moronic individuals
> > holding down HR positions who don't know the difference between educated
> and
> > not, there isn't much hope for many.
> >
> > But for now, I'm just going to annoy the hell out of the companies out
> there
> > until they tell me to go away or I get a job! lol. May or may not pan
> out.
> > It's a waiting game for now!
> >
> > ok I'm done ... *gets off the soap box* NEXT!!
> >
> > --
> > Sue MCNGP #69
> > http://www.mcngp.tk
> > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >
> > "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> > enough people to make it worth the effort."
> > Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
> >
> > "Dragon" <NoSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23ZuVVjggDHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > So True.
> > >
> > > I took a 'temp' job paying only 17/hour and it took me about 8 months
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > find a real job which pays decent and repects what you can do for the
> > > company. In this market, jobs are out there but you will only find[/color]
them
> if
> > > you know someone or are extremely lucky. The job I am working at right
> now
> > > was never even posted. I found out about it from a friend. so right
> now,,,
> > > it's all about who you know.
> > >
> > > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bkq1n9$b1f$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > > "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:exJH%23pfgDHA.2172@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > "S. O'Brien" < likeIwouldtellyou@inyourdreams
.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:bkq07s$all$1@nntp-stjh-01-01.rogers.nf.net...
> > > > > > "But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel
> Corporation,[colo
r=darkred]
> > > said
> > > > > > finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the[/color]
world
> > was
> > > > > > critical to his company's future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > > future
> > > > > for
> > > > > > the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with[/color]
the[c
olor=darkred]
> > > > > advanced
> > > > > > education, skills, and expertise we need," he said."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Check this out. If this company isn't doing it's necessary "search
> for
> > > > local
> > > > > talent" prior to hiring an H1B, I'll eat my hat. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/m8h0
> > > > >
> > > > > In particular, note:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Working Conditions:
> > > > >
> > > > > ˇ Available to work weekends, nights and overtime as required.[/color]
This
> is
> > a
> > > > 24
> > > > > hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year function;
> > > > >
> > > > > ˇ Will require carrying a pager and/or cellular at all times."
> > > > >
> > > > > I note also that no salary is mentioned. Any takers? Sounds like a
> > dream
> > > > > job, huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > J.R. Jones
> > > > > A+ Net+ MCSA MCNGP#..............42
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Seems a lot of employers are going that route these days... or using
> the
> > > > line "to be negotiated"... yeah RIGHT!! like a potential employee
has[c
olor=darkred]
> > > much
> > > > say in how much they get paid. Can you see the conversation now?[/color]
HR:[c
olor=darkred]
> > > "Yes,
> > > > we will offer you $10/hr." Applicant: "I want $15." HR: "Yes, we
> will
> > > > offer you $10/hr." The only negotiation in it will be take the[/color]
wages
> > they
> > > > offer or look elsewhere. The one I love is "Depending on
> experience"...
> > > get
> > > > real!! They already know they are going to offer you less than they
> > KNOW
> > > > you are worth but know that the economy sucks so much that they can
> get
> > > away
> > > > with it! I had a guy tell me in an interview that getting paid
> $9.50/ hr
> > > was
> > > > the best I could hope for with my experience and qualifications... I
> > don't
> > > > THINK so. Then he tried to tell me about how the IT field has gone
to[co
lor=darkred]
> > > hell
> > > > and that qualified employees are not getting what they used to.[/color]
That[
color=darkred]
> > > > comment was fine but the job in question wanted my High School
> > > transcripts,
> > > > not my college ones!!! So they pay a high school grad the same[/color]
amount
> > as
> > > a
> > > > college grad and expect me to swallow those wages??? And they
expect
> me
> > > to
> > > > believe that I can't do better??? HA! The jobs are out there, its
> just
> > a
> > > > matter of getting in everyone's face until you find a decent one
(not
> > the
> > > > dream job perhaps but better than one that pays an uneducated kid
the
> > same
> > > > amount as a experienced, educated, mature adult!)
> > > >
> > > > Or maybe I'm just being picky but I have the time to look further
and[c
olor=darkred]
> > > won't
> > > > settle for that type of job unless it comes down to the line and I
> need
> > a
> > > > job right NOW! That day hasn't come yet so I think I'll wait out[/color]
the
> > time
> > > > and see what comes up.
> > > >
> > > > Sue
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
| |
|
| The bottom line.. it's the companies that will decide whether they will
outsource or hire individuals from all over the world granting h1b to all
qualified. Why hire or outsource if the locals can do it better and at a
competitive price? Of course they will definitely choose the option wherein
they can save the most without sacrificing the quality.
--
Jesse
Manila, PHilippines
"JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:#NJpCChgDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
> "Tommy" <tommy@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> news:uH0Hz5ggDHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> > So how can you **naturally** ask a company who is registered in some
> Pacific
> > island how to do its business? Remember, nowadays, there is no more
> > "American Company". Most companies will be "International Companies"
and
> > register the company in some island countries.
> >
> > I think it's you people against the H1 program who forced the
outsourcing
> > favors.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Oh, brother, it's good to debate with a clear thinking individual.
>
> <Emily Latella>
> Never Mind
> </Emily Latella>
>
> JaR
>
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003
| |
| =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= 2003-09-24, 9:23 am |
| "Laura A. Robinson" < firstinitiallastname@technolog
ist.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19da7c47de939de098a94b@msnews.microsoft.com...
> circa Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:41:15 -0700, in
> microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Jtyc (yo@respondtothegroup.com)
> said,
> > > That's "Wings fan" to you, bub.
> >
> > Satanist.
> >
> My sister said she is going to name her first daughter after me since
> she's one of the beneficiaries on my life insurance. She plans to
> call the child "Laura Mephistopheles <last name>".
>
> IOW, my family has beaten you to your conclusion and upped the ante.
> :-)
I think "Laura Beelzebub" has a better ring to it.
--
Fris "Sympathy for the Animatron" beeŽ MCNGP #13
http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
| |
| Dragon 2003-09-24, 9:23 pm |
| They way I see it,,, talent is available everywhere. This is the age of
Internet and information is flowing everywhere even in the un-developed
countries. The only difference is that we are asking for the wages we
deserve and they can do it cheaper. It isn't that they are not getting what
they deserve but the fact alone that salary coming in Dollars is much better
than coming in Rupee is making the difference. In most cases, companies find
that it is cheaper to outsource than to hire your own team which will
require desks, equipment, higher salaries, benefits etc etc. I have seen
companies where almost all the departments, from accounting to IT, has been
outsourced and they still make money. Just my opinion.
Opinionated Dragon
"jeal" <jeal@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:eVD4PVjgDHA.3324@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> The bottom line.. it's the companies that will decide whether they will
> outsource or hire individuals from all over the world granting h1b to all
> qualified. Why hire or outsource if the locals can do it better and at a
> competitive price? Of course they will definitely choose the option
wherein
> they can save the most without sacrificing the quality.
>
> --
> Jesse
> Manila, PHilippines
> "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> news:#NJpCChgDHA.2260@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "Tommy" <tommy@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> > news:uH0Hz5ggDHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> >
> > > So how can you **naturally** ask a company who is registered in some
> > Pacific
> > > island how to do its business? Remember, nowadays, there is no more
> > > "American Company". Most companies will be "International Companies"
> and
> > > register the company in some island countries.
> > >
> > > I think it's you people against the H1 program who forced the
> outsourcing[color
=darkred]
> > > favors.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Oh, brother, it's good to debate with a clear thinking individual.
> >
> > <Emily Latella>
> > Never Mind
> > </Emily Latella>
> >
> > JaR
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003
>
>[/color]
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-24, 9:23 pm |
| Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse:98810
circa Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:40:10 -0400, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=
< bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> (=?Windows-1252?Q?
Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= < bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> ) said,
> > >
> > My sister said she is going to name her first daughter after me since
> > she's one of the beneficiaries on my life insurance. She plans to
> > call the child "Laura Mephistopheles <last name>".
> >
> > IOW, my family has beaten you to your conclusion and upped the ante.
> > :-)
>
> I think "Laura Beelzebub" has a better ring to it.
>
Ah, but then the child's initials would be "LBS". Nope, can't have
that.
Laura
--
If thine enemy offend thee, give his child a drum.
| |
| =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= 2003-09-25, 9:23 am |
| "Laura A. Robinson" < firstinitiallastname@technolog
ist.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19db90844885455e98a951@msnews.microsoft.com...
> circa Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:40:10 -0400, in
> microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=
> < bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> (=?Windows-1252?Q?
> Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= < bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> ) said,
> > > >
> > > My sister said she is going to name her first daughter after me since
> > > she's one of the beneficiaries on my life insurance. She plans to
> > > call the child "Laura Mephistopheles <last name>".
> > >
> > > IOW, my family has beaten you to your conclusion and upped the ante.
> > > :-)
> >
> > I think "Laura Beelzebub" has a better ring to it.
> >
> Ah, but then the child's initials would be "LBS". Nope, can't have
> that.
I was wondering if it might have been "LBJ"
--
Fris "Mah fellow merakins" beeŽ MCNGP #13
http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-09-25, 1:23 pm |
| circa Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:20:29 -0400, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=
< bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> (=?Windows-1252?Q?
Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?= < bhilemanATdasiDASHsoftwareDOTc
om> ) said,
> > > > >
> > > > My sister said she is going to name her first daughter after me since
> > > > she's one of the beneficiaries on my life insurance. She plans to
> > > > call the child "Laura Mephistopheles <last name>".
> > > >
> > > > IOW, my family has beaten you to your conclusion and upped the ante.
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > I think "Laura Beelzebub" has a better ring to it.
> > >
> > Ah, but then the child's initials would be "LBS". Nope, can't have
> > that.
>
> I was wondering if it might have been "LBJ"
>
Um, no.
--
Four legs good, two legs bad.
-George Orwell
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