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| Chappy 2003-03-25, 6:23 pm |
| Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
Microsof books.
| |
| KLXrider 2003-03-25, 6:23 pm |
| Did you have any experience, or are you just looking for someone else
to blame besides yourself.
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:36:22 -0800, "Chappy"
<chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
>books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
>havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
>Microsof books.
| |
| billyw 2003-03-25, 7:23 pm |
| i thought sybex were the best of the bunch.. 216 isn't really a book exam...
"Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> Microsof books.
| |
| Hawaiian Reno 2003-03-25, 8:23 pm |
| >Subject: Sybex books
>From: "Chappy" chappyg@optushome.com.au
>Date: 3/25/2003 3:36 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: < 392801c2f327$57bb4500$a601280a
@phx.gbl>
>
>Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
>books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
>havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
>Microsof books.
>
>
>
>
>
You need to be able to comprehend what you read and perform all the exercises
several times each.
Aloha
| |
| rcaine 2003-03-25, 8:55 pm |
| I've had nothing but good luck with Sybex books over the years. My dBASE Instant Reference from 1988 still has a spot on my shelf along with my Windows 2000 Profesional MCSE Study Guide. | |
| Simon Geary 2003-03-25, 9:23 pm |
|
"Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> Microsof books.
Actually, it was you who was crap.
| |
| |{evin 2003-03-25, 9:23 pm |
| On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:36:22 -0800, "Chappy"
<chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
>books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
>havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
>Microsof books.
No, you failed because you didn't know the material. Trying to get
certified from a book will cause that to happen, you know.
| |
| Politician Spock 2003-03-26, 9:23 am |
| "Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> Microsof books.
It doesn't bother me that you failed 216 when all you did to prepare was
read a book. What bothers me is that you passed 210 and 215 just by reading
a book.
--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 10:23 am |
| I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments on
this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little out
of line.
I do have some IT experience, approximately 1 1/2 years, but the company I
worked for folded. I also have a network at home with a couple of servers
and have had AD up and running for about a year. Now, to try to find
another job in this market today is next to impossible without something
behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable experience. An MCSE at
least gives me something that verifies that I can do what I say I can do. Go
do something else you say? Well, that is impossible. I started this
because of having a disability and being unable to perform the tasks of my
former occupation. I would much rather be making $40K + a year than be
starving while I'm learning something new.
I have no doubt that at least few of the people wanting info are situations
like mine, and the rudeness and arrogance I see in the posts when you guys
have no clue as to the circumstances that cause people to use "books" to
help them get a cert is out of line, at least in my estimation.
Ignorance is not stupidity. And I can remember when I didn't know how to
"google" just a couple of years ago. Ignorance didn't mean I couldn't
learn, just that I didn't know about things. I can now "google" with the
best of you.
When a person is learning the new language, for that is what it is when you
first enter this field, just learning the correct terminology to use is a
very limiting factor in their ability to do research. Without that
knowledge of terminology a person can spend fruitless hours of searching and
not be able to find anything. I know, I've always been good at research,
but upon entering this new field of endeavor a new "language" had to be
learned.
I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me long to
expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC profession.
But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an indicator of
someone's ability to learn.
"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:#iVCGb68CHA.1776@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> > Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> > books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> > havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> > Microsof books.
>
> It doesn't bother me that you failed 216 when all you did to prepare was
> read a book. What bothers me is that you passed 210 and 215 just by
reading
> a book.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
| |
| Keyboard Cowboy 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| You were the guy that stubebed his toe and claimed=20
workmans comp for 2 years while you studied to find=20
something else to do since you couldn't cut it in HVAc,=20
aren't you...
Difference is, we couldn't care less about HVAC=20
terminology... We didn't go looking for your advice in it=20
either. If HVAC was an overpopulated occupation forcing=20
the existing HVAC workers to take a pay cut because some=20
kid fresh out of tech school is willing to work for $12=20
per hour, I think the HVAC workers would tell them where=20
to go too.
Is it frigid in here, or is it just me? Gary must be=20
working...
>-----Original Message-----
>I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
>
>I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some=20
of the comments on
>this thread about those who are studying "books" are more=20
than a little out
>of line.
>
>I do have some IT experience, approximately 1 1/2 years,=20
but the company I
>worked for folded. I also have a network at home with a=20
couple of servers
>and have had AD up and running for about a year. Now,=20
to try to find
>another job in this market today is next to impossible=20
without something
>behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable=20
experience. An MCSE at
>least gives me something that verifies that I can do what=20
I say I can do. Go
>do something else you say? Well, that is impossible. I=20
started this
>because of having a disability and being unable to=20
perform the tasks of my
>former occupation. I would much rather be making $40K +=20
a year than be
>starving while I'm learning something new.
>
>I have no doubt that at least few of the people wanting=20
info are situations
>like mine, and the rudeness and arrogance I see in the=20
posts when you guys
>have no clue as to the circumstances that cause people to=20
use "books" to
>help them get a cert is out of line, at least in my=20
estimation.
>
>Ignorance is not stupidity. And I can remember when I=20
didn't know how to
>"google" just a couple of years ago. Ignorance didn't=20
mean I couldn't
>learn, just that I didn't know about things. I can=20
now "google" with the
>best of you.
>
>When a person is learning the new language, for that is=20
what it is when you
>first enter this field, just learning the correct=20
terminology to use is a
>very limiting factor in their ability to do research. =20
Without that
>knowledge of terminology a person can spend fruitless=20
hours of searching and
>not be able to find anything. I know, I've always been=20
good at research,
>but upon entering this new field of endeavor a=20
new "language" had to be
>learned.
>
>I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It=20
wouldn't take me long to
>expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of=20
the HVAC profession.
>But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an=20
indicator of
>someone's ability to learn.
>
>
>"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in=20
message
>news:#iVCGb68CHA.1776@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> "Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
>> > Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with=20
these
>> > books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
>> > havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
>> > Microsof books.
>>
>> It doesn't bother me that you failed 216 when all you=20
did to prepare was
>> read a book. What bothers me is that you passed 210 and=20
215 just by
>reading
>> a book.
>>
>> --
>> Politician Spock
>> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
>> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,=20
and confers no
>rights.
>> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for=20
your inability to
>> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the=20
imaginary gnomes
>> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
>> =A9 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>>
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Consultant 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| so, we would be idiots due to the fact that we don't know hvac terminology?
what about fast food terminology? you sir, are the idiot
"Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
>
> I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments on
> this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little
out
> of line.
>
> I do have some IT experience, approximately 1 1/2 years, but the company I
> worked for folded. I also have a network at home with a couple of servers
> and have had AD up and running for about a year. Now, to try to find
> another job in this market today is next to impossible without something
> behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable experience. An MCSE
at
> least gives me something that verifies that I can do what I say I can do.
Go
> do something else you say? Well, that is impossible. I started this
> because of having a disability and being unable to perform the tasks of my
> former occupation. I would much rather be making $40K + a year than be
> starving while I'm learning something new.
>
> I have no doubt that at least few of the people wanting info are
situations
> like mine, and the rudeness and arrogance I see in the posts when you guys
> have no clue as to the circumstances that cause people to use "books" to
> help them get a cert is out of line, at least in my estimation.
>
> Ignorance is not stupidity. And I can remember when I didn't know how to
> "google" just a couple of years ago. Ignorance didn't mean I couldn't
> learn, just that I didn't know about things. I can now "google" with the
> best of you.
>
> When a person is learning the new language, for that is what it is when
you
> first enter this field, just learning the correct terminology to use is a
> very limiting factor in their ability to do research. Without that
> knowledge of terminology a person can spend fruitless hours of searching
and
> not be able to find anything. I know, I've always been good at research,
> but upon entering this new field of endeavor a new "language" had to be
> learned.
>
> I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me long
to
> expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC
profession.
> But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an indicator of
> someone's ability to learn.
>
>
> "Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:#iVCGb68CHA.1776@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > "Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> > > Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> > > books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> > > havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> > > Microsof books.
> >
> > It doesn't bother me that you failed 216 when all you did to prepare was
> > read a book. What bothers me is that you passed 210 and 215 just by
> reading
> > a book.
> >
> > --
> > Politician Spock
> > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> >
>
>
| |
| Daniel Lawrence 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| Gary,
You are missing the point of the "book" comments, they don't apply to
someone like you who is actively getting there hands dirty so to speak with
the material. The comments are aimed at those people who want the paper but
don't have the experience to blow there noses.
Now regardless of what some might think the certification books play an
important role BUT are only one part of the process. Experience weather its
work or on a home network counts, but blindly memorizing facts and figures
or using braindumps does not and only weakens the certification for everyone
else.
--
Daniel Lawrence
A+
"Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
>
> I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments on
> this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little
out
> of line.
>
> I do have some IT experience, approximately 1 1/2 years, but the company I
> worked for folded. I also have a network at home with a couple of servers
> and have had AD up and running for about a year. Now, to try to find
> another job in this market today is next to impossible without something
> behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable experience. An MCSE
at
> least gives me something that verifies that I can do what I say I can do.
Go
> do something else you say? Well, that is impossible. I started this
> because of having a disability and being unable to perform the tasks of my
> former occupation. I would much rather be making $40K + a year than be
> starving while I'm learning something new.
>
> I have no doubt that at least few of the people wanting info are
situations
> like mine, and the rudeness and arrogance I see in the posts when you guys
> have no clue as to the circumstances that cause people to use "books" to
> help them get a cert is out of line, at least in my estimation.
>
> Ignorance is not stupidity. And I can remember when I didn't know how to
> "google" just a couple of years ago. Ignorance didn't mean I couldn't
> learn, just that I didn't know about things. I can now "google" with the
> best of you.
>
> When a person is learning the new language, for that is what it is when
you
> first enter this field, just learning the correct terminology to use is a
> very limiting factor in their ability to do research. Without that
> knowledge of terminology a person can spend fruitless hours of searching
and
> not be able to find anything. I know, I've always been good at research,
> but upon entering this new field of endeavor a new "language" had to be
> learned.
>
> I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me long
to
> expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC
profession.
> But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an indicator of
> someone's ability to learn.
>
>
> "Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:#iVCGb68CHA.1776@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > "Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> > > Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> > > books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> > > havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> > > Microsof books.
> >
> > It doesn't bother me that you failed 216 when all you did to prepare was
> > read a book. What bothers me is that you passed 210 and 215 just by
> reading
> > a book.
> >
> > --
> > Politician Spock
> > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> >
>
>
| |
| Politician Spock 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
>
> I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments on
> this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little
out
> of line.
>
Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my comments. I study books
for my certifications. I recommend book study over the "thousand dollar"
classes any day. But whatever route you choose should supplement your
experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the Microsoft prerequisites
for their certification.... it says a candidate should have experience. Like
I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216 when all he did to
prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he passed 210 and 215 just
by reading a book. If you have experience and have chosen book study, good
for you. I took that route myself.
--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| Politician and Daniel,
I'll answer the two of you together. If you will remember, I said "some" of
the comments.... I did not say all of the comments. I basically have no
problem with what you two said.
However:
Keyboard and Consultant,
If the two of you could comprehend what you read it would be nice. I said I
could make you look like idiots, not that you are. You are ignorant of what
I know in great depth. However, it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to
make someone look like an idiot. You two prove it. You two make yourselves
look like idiots. I don't really have to put any effort into it at all.
"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uRdyNa78CHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
> >
> > I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments
on
> > this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little
> out
> > of line.
> >
>
> Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my comments. I study books
> for my certifications. I recommend book study over the "thousand dollar"
> classes any day. But whatever route you choose should supplement your
> experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the Microsoft prerequisites
> for their certification.... it says a candidate should have experience.
Like
> I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216 when all he did to
> prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he passed 210 and 215
just
> by reading a book. If you have experience and have chosen book study, good
> for you. I took that route myself.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
| |
|
| > I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me long
to
> expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC
profession.
Oh yeah? I bet I could build a better tank trap than you.
| |
| Keyboard Cowboy 2003-03-26, 11:23 am |
| Gee... you know Gary, you really got me there. You have=20
put me in my place. Thank you for the attitude re-
alignment. Now, please explain the great depth of=20
knowledge you claim to have. Are you going to tell us how=20
not to cut it in HVAC? How to effectively get fired? =20
Please explain to me the concept of failing. I really=20
need to know that of which you claim to have so much more=20
knowledge than me.
Gary... you work 1st tier help desk, don't you???
Keyboard Cowboy MCNGP #14
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
----------------------------------------------------------
I apologize for calling your wife a bloated wart-hog, and
I bid you good day!
----------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>Politician and Daniel,
>
>I'll answer the two of you together. If you will=20
remember, I said "some" of
>the comments.... I did not say all of the comments. I=20
basically have no
>problem with what you two said.
>
>However:
>
>Keyboard and Consultant,
>
>If the two of you could comprehend what you read it would=20
be nice. I said I
>could make you look like idiots, not that you are. You=20
are ignorant of what
>I know in great depth. However, it doesn't take a whole=20
lot of skill to
>make someone look like an idiot. You two prove it. You=20
two make yourselves
>look like idiots. I don't really have to put any effort=20
into it at all.
>
>
>"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in=20
message
>news:uRdyNa78CHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> > I just had to make a couple of comments on this=20
thread. [colo
r=darkred]
>> >
>> > I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that=20[/color]
some of the comments
> on
>> > this thread about those who are studying "books" are=20
more than a little
>> out
>> > of line.
>> >
>>
>> Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my=20
comments. I study books
>> for my certifications. I recommend book study over=20
the "thousand dollar"
>> classes any day. But whatever route you choose should=20
supplement your
>> experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the=20
Microsoft prerequisites[colo
r=green]
>> for their certification.... it says a candidate should=20[/color]
have experience.
>Like
>> I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216=20
when all he did to
>> prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he=20
passed 210 and 215
>just
>> by reading a book. If you have experience and have=20
chosen book study, good
>> for you. I took that route myself.
>>
>> --
>> Politician Spock
>> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
>> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,=20
and confers no
>rights.
>> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for=20
your inability to
>> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the=20
imaginary gnomes
>> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
>> =A9 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>>
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| Could you build a better tank trap than I can? I have no idea, only because
I don't know your experience in that are. However, if you have done it
several times already you have got to be better at it than I am. I am
ignorant of what it takes to build a good tank trap, having never done it.
How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you are ignorant of
something? Not a one of you know everything there is to know. Do you guys
not know what ignorance means? It simply means that you, and I, don't know
everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant about something. This
is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:eekXLs78CHA.2272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me
long
> to
> > expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC
> profession.
>
> Oh yeah? I bet I could build a better tank trap than you.
>
>
| |
| Consultant 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| i will not digress to your pre-pubescent antics
"Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:#lX$vl78CHA.1980@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Politician and Daniel,
>
> I'll answer the two of you together. If you will remember, I said "some"
of
> the comments.... I did not say all of the comments. I basically have no
> problem with what you two said.
>
> However:
>
> Keyboard and Consultant,
>
> If the two of you could comprehend what you read it would be nice. I said
I
> could make you look like idiots, not that you are. You are ignorant of
what
> I know in great depth. However, it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to
> make someone look like an idiot. You two prove it. You two make
yourselves
> look like idiots. I don't really have to put any effort into it at all.
>
>
> "Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uRdyNa78CHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > I just had to make a couple of comments on this thread.
> > >
> > > I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the
comments
> on
> > > this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a
little
> > out
> > > of line.
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my comments. I study
books
> > for my certifications. I recommend book study over the "thousand dollar"
> > classes any day. But whatever route you choose should supplement your
> > experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the Microsoft
prerequisites[colo
r=green]
> > for their certification.... it says a candidate should have experience.
> Like
> > I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216 when all he did[/color]
to
> > prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he passed 210 and 215
> just
> > by reading a book. If you have experience and have chosen book study,
good
> > for you. I took that route myself.
> >
> > --
> > Politician Spock
> > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> >
>
>
| |
|
|
> Now, to try to find
> another job in this market today is next to impossible without something
> behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable experience. An MCSE
at
> least gives me something that verifies that I can do what I say I can do.
An MCSE does not verify anything. I know MCSE's that don't know how to set
NTFS permissions. And employers are beginning to realize that the MCSE
means nothing, that anyone with access to the internet and a few hundred
dollars to throw at braindumps can get thier MCSE. Some employers in my
area are beginning to quiz applicants on thier knowledge of Windows 2000,
Active Directory, and Network Administration. They no longer care if you
have an peice of paper, but they want to know they have someone with
experience. For some reason everyone thinks you have to work at a large
corporation running a incredibly important datacenter to gain experience.
You can gain experience by using a lab at home. They seem to think getting
an MCSE without learning anything is fine because you can't get hired
without experience anyway.
Some employers may want a certain number years of actual job experience
before hiring you, but that is the same in a lot of fields. If I owned a
quik-e-mart, I would want my manager to have managed another establishment
for a certain length of time so I know that he has the ability to take care
of problems that arise. In the same way, if I was in charge of a large
corporation, I would want to know that my tech people were experienced.
Don't plan on getting an MCSE and immediately getting a dream job. You have
to work up the ladder as in any field. Just because it used to be that
getting your MCSE meant that you could walk in anywhere get a job and sign
your own paycheck, doesn't mean that it will always be that way. Now that
the field is saturated with them it requires a little work to find a job,
and may take a little time getting to the position you want. If you are
training for your MCSE, do yourself a favor and learn it so well that you
can do anything asked of you. That is the only way an MCSE is valuable.
| |
|
| > Could you build a better tank trap than I can? I have no idea, only
because
> I don't know your experience in that are. However, if you have done it
> several times already you have got to be better at it than I am. I am
> ignorant of what it takes to build a good tank trap, having never done it.
>
> How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you are ignorant of
> something? Not a one of you know everything there is to know. Do you
guys
> not know what ignorance means? It simply means that you, and I, don't
know
> everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant about something. This
> is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
You missed the point of my childish retort.
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| LOL. Is that the best you can do?
Help desk? No, I got thrown in way over my head learning web site security.
I taught myself tcp/ip and how to troubleshoot networks and subnet networks,
how to recognize exploits and how they work in an attack, how to script,
learned the very basics of database administration, was learning SQL when
the company went bankrupt, etc....
Getting fired? Another piece of evidence of your inability to comprehend
what you read. I'm physically disabled. I have severe lumbar spondylosis.
I don't seem to have the same mental disabilities shown by you though, as
evidenced by your inability to comprehend what you read.
"Keyboard Cowboy" <thekeyboardcowboy@nospam.cybersolutionz.com> wrote in
message news:4d3501c2f3bb$15b1c140$340
1280a@phx.gbl...
Gee... you know Gary, you really got me there. You have
put me in my place. Thank you for the attitude re-
alignment. Now, please explain the great depth of
knowledge you claim to have. Are you going to tell us how
not to cut it in HVAC? How to effectively get fired?
Please explain to me the concept of failing. I really
need to know that of which you claim to have so much more
knowledge than me.
Gary... you work 1st tier help desk, don't you???
Keyboard Cowboy MCNGP #14
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
----------------------------------------------------------
I apologize for calling your wife a bloated wart-hog, and
I bid you good day!
----------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>Politician and Daniel,
>
>I'll answer the two of you together. If you will
remember, I said "some" of
>the comments.... I did not say all of the comments. I
basically have no
>problem with what you two said.
>
>However:
>
>Keyboard and Consultant,
>
>If the two of you could comprehend what you read it would
be nice. I said I
>could make you look like idiots, not that you are. You
are ignorant of what
>I know in great depth. However, it doesn't take a whole
lot of skill to
>make someone look like an idiot. You two prove it. You
two make yourselves
>look like idiots. I don't really have to put any effort
into it at all.
>
>
>"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
>news:uRdyNa78CHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> > I just had to make a couple of comments on this
thread. [colo
r=darkred]
>> >
>> > I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that[/color]
some of the comments
> on
>> > this thread about those who are studying "books" are
more than a little
>> out
>> > of line.
>> >
>>
>> Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my
comments. I study books
>> for my certifications. I recommend book study over
the "thousand dollar"
>> classes any day. But whatever route you choose should
supplement your
>> experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the
Microsoft prerequisites[colo
r=green]
>> for their certification.... it says a candidate should[/color]
have experience.
>Like
>> I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216
when all he did to
>> prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he
passed 210 and 215
>just
>> by reading a book. If you have experience and have
chosen book study, good
>> for you. I took that route myself.
>>
>> --
>> Politician Spock
>> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
>> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,
and confers no
>rights.
>> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for
your inability to
>> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the
imaginary gnomes
>> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
>> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>>
>
>
>.
>
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| LOL. Ok. You got me.
"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:#Ty0o478CHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Could you build a better tank trap than I can? I have no idea, only
> because
> > I don't know your experience in that are. However, if you have done it
> > several times already you have got to be better at it than I am. I am
> > ignorant of what it takes to build a good tank trap, having never done
it.
> >
> > How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you are ignorant of
> > something? Not a one of you know everything there is to know. Do you
> guys
> > not know what ignorance means? It simply means that you, and I, don't
> know
> > everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant about something.
This
> > is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
>
> You missed the point of my childish retort.
>
>
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| Matt,
I didn't say an MCSE guarantees me a job. It does say that I have a certain
level of knowledge. I am also very well aware of the fact that it is going
to be very, very difficult to find a job in a new field, especially one that
is contracting as IT is right now. I look at an MCSE as something that may
help, and definitely can't hurt, my chances of once again being able to be
gainfully employed. It is simply a step in a direction.
I know guys with 20+ years experience in this field that are going back and
getting their MCSE because they get turned down on interviews because they
have no letters after their name.
I have a lot of negatives going against me. I can't lift. I can't stand
for any extended periods of time. I'm almost 50, and having to undergo a
career change, rather than being able to cash in on my years of experience
in what I know very well. I have no illusions as to the difficulties lying
ahead of me. I'm just hoping against hope that an MCSE will at least help
get me in the front door in some kind of entry level job.
"Matt" <MattnoChilders.spam_@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ea53J378CHA.2192@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> > Now, to try to find
> > another job in this market today is next to impossible without something
> > behind your name besides a little bit of verifiable experience. An MCSE
> at
> > least gives me something that verifies that I can do what I say I can
do.
>
> An MCSE does not verify anything. I know MCSE's that don't know how to
set
> NTFS permissions. And employers are beginning to realize that the MCSE
> means nothing, that anyone with access to the internet and a few hundred
> dollars to throw at braindumps can get thier MCSE. Some employers in my
> area are beginning to quiz applicants on thier knowledge of Windows 2000,
> Active Directory, and Network Administration. They no longer care if you
> have an peice of paper, but they want to know they have someone with
> experience. For some reason everyone thinks you have to work at a large
> corporation running a incredibly important datacenter to gain experience.
> You can gain experience by using a lab at home. They seem to think
getting
> an MCSE without learning anything is fine because you can't get hired
> without experience anyway.
>
> Some employers may want a certain number years of actual job experience
> before hiring you, but that is the same in a lot of fields. If I owned a
> quik-e-mart, I would want my manager to have managed another establishment
> for a certain length of time so I know that he has the ability to take
care
> of problems that arise. In the same way, if I was in charge of a large
> corporation, I would want to know that my tech people were experienced.
>
> Don't plan on getting an MCSE and immediately getting a dream job. You
have
> to work up the ladder as in any field. Just because it used to be that
> getting your MCSE meant that you could walk in anywhere get a job and sign
> your own paycheck, doesn't mean that it will always be that way. Now that
> the field is saturated with them it requires a little work to find a job,
> and may take a little time getting to the position you want. If you are
> training for your MCSE, do yourself a favor and learn it so well that you
> can do anything asked of you. That is the only way an MCSE is valuable.
>
>
| |
| Consultant 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| ah, another cripple with a chip on his shoulder.
"Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:eJD8O678CHA.2272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> LOL. Is that the best you can do?
>
> Help desk? No, I got thrown in way over my head learning web site
security.
> I taught myself tcp/ip and how to troubleshoot networks and subnet
networks,
> how to recognize exploits and how they work in an attack, how to script,
> learned the very basics of database administration, was learning SQL when
> the company went bankrupt, etc....
>
> Getting fired? Another piece of evidence of your inability to comprehend
> what you read. I'm physically disabled. I have severe lumbar
spondylosis.
> I don't seem to have the same mental disabilities shown by you though, as
> evidenced by your inability to comprehend what you read.
>
>
> "Keyboard Cowboy" <thekeyboardcowboy@nospam.cybersolutionz.com> wrote in
> message news:4d3501c2f3bb$15b1c140$340
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Gee... you know Gary, you really got me there. You have
> put me in my place. Thank you for the attitude re-
> alignment. Now, please explain the great depth of
> knowledge you claim to have. Are you going to tell us how
> not to cut it in HVAC? How to effectively get fired?
> Please explain to me the concept of failing. I really
> need to know that of which you claim to have so much more
> knowledge than me.
>
> Gary... you work 1st tier help desk, don't you???
>
>
> Keyboard Cowboy MCNGP #14
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> I apologize for calling your wife a bloated wart-hog, and
> I bid you good day!
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Politician and Daniel,
> >
> >I'll answer the two of you together. If you will
> remember, I said "some" of
> >the comments.... I did not say all of the comments. I
> basically have no
> >problem with what you two said.
> >
> >However:
> >
> >Keyboard and Consultant,
> >
> >If the two of you could comprehend what you read it would
> be nice. I said I
> >could make you look like idiots, not that you are. You
> are ignorant of what
> >I know in great depth. However, it doesn't take a whole
> lot of skill to
> >make someone look like an idiot. You two prove it. You
> two make yourselves
> >look like idiots. I don't really have to put any effort
> into it at all.
> >
> >
> >"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> >news:uRdyNa78CHA.2376@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:uryTwC78CHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> > I just had to make a couple of comments on this
> thread.
> >> >
> >> > I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that
> some of the comments
> >on
> >> > this thread about those who are studying "books" are
> more than a little
> >> out
> >> > of line.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions about my
> comments. I study books
> >> for my certifications. I recommend book study over
> the "thousand dollar"
> >> classes any day. But whatever route you choose should
> supplement your
> >> experience if you are pursuing the MCSE. Read the
> Microsoft prerequisites[col
or=darkred]
> >> for their certification.... it says a candidate should
> have experience.
> >Like
> >> I said before, it doesn't bother me that he failed 216
> when all he did to
> >> prepare was read a book. What bothers me is that he
> passed 210 and 215
> >just
> >> by reading a book. If you have experience and have
> chosen book study, good
> >> for you. I took that route myself.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Politician Spock
> >> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> >> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >>
> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,
> and confers no
> >rights.
> >> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for
> your inability to
> >> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the
> imaginary gnomes
> >> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> >> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> >>
> >
> >
> >.
> >
>
>[/color]
| |
| Keyboard Cowboy 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
|
>How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you
are ignorant of
>something? Not a one of you know everything there is to
know. Do you guys
>not know what ignorance means? It simply means that you,
and I, don't know
>everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant about
something. This
>is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
>
Hmm... Now, if you were to come out here and say "that
you, and I, don't know everything about everything", I
think you would not have gotten the flames and replies you
did... But, since you did not, and you addressed everyone
by saying that " I could make you guys all look like
idiots too. It wouldn't take me long to expose your
ignorance...", you are only inviting people to respond in
an aggresive manner.
People here, and throughout the industry, have a certain
attitude towards those who think they can just pick up a
book and get a cert... or read a few chapters and get a
job. And, those who post to this ng that are attempting
to become paper MCSE's will get a certain reply from those
of us that are working their *sses off at it. I applaud
you on getting in over your head... Apparently you have
not drowned... but you must know that the attacks do not
come unwarranted... towards you or to those posting to
find the easier ways...
| |
|
| > I didn't say an MCSE guarantees me a job. It does say that I have a
certain
> level of knowledge.
It is supposed to say you have a certain level of knowledge, unfortunately
with braindumps and bootcamps this is not true anymore.
>I am also very well aware of the fact that it is going
> to be very, very difficult to find a job in a new field, especially one
that
> is contracting as IT is right now. I look at an MCSE as something that
may
> help, and definitely can't hurt, my chances of once again being able to be
> gainfully employed. It is simply a step in a direction.
> I have a lot of negatives going against me. I can't lift. I can't stand
> for any extended periods of time. I'm almost 50, and having to undergo a
> career change, rather than being able to cash in on my years of experience
> in what I know very well. I have no illusions as to the difficulties
lying
> ahead of me. I'm just hoping against hope that an MCSE will at least help
> get me in the front door in some kind of entry level job.
I'm sorry that you are forced to undergo a carrer change, and I wish you the
best. You are right an MCSE will help your chances at a entry level job.
But like I said before do yourself a favor and learn the material so well,
not just to pass a test, but so you can solve any problem that comes your
way.
Once you get an entry level job, if you know your stuff, your supervisors
will take notice. They remember those things when it comes time to make
promotions.
Good Luck,
Matt
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 12:23 pm |
| Let's take a look at what I said:
"I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It wouldn't take me long
to expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics of the HVAC
profession.
But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an indicator of
someone's ability to learn."
Now, just where didn't I say you guys don't know everything about
everything? That is the definition of the word "ignorance." I then simply
gave an example of what I have a whole lot of knowledge about, and
something, by talking to quite a few IT people, that most computer "gurus"
have basically no knowledge of.
The whole point of my post was that newbies don't know what experience has
taught those in any field for any length of time. That you missed the
entire point of my post isn't my fault by any stretch of the imagination.
"Keyboard Cowboy" <thekeyboardcowboy@nospam.cybersolutionz.com> wrote in
message news:3e2f01c2f3c1$cc00aff0$a30
1280a@phx.gbl...
>
> >How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you
> are ignorant of
> >something? Not a one of you know everything there is to
> know. Do you guys
> >not know what ignorance means? It simply means that you,
> and I, don't know
> >everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant about
> something. This
> >is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
> >
>
> Hmm... Now, if you were to come out here and say "that
> you, and I, don't know everything about everything", I
> think you would not have gotten the flames and replies you
> did... But, since you did not, and you addressed everyone
> by saying that " I could make you guys all look like
> idiots too. It wouldn't take me long to expose your
> ignorance...", you are only inviting people to respond in
> an aggresive manner.
>
> People here, and throughout the industry, have a certain
> attitude towards those who think they can just pick up a
> book and get a cert... or read a few chapters and get a
> job. And, those who post to this ng that are attempting
> to become paper MCSE's will get a certain reply from those
> of us that are working their *sses off at it. I applaud
> you on getting in over your head... Apparently you have
> not drowned... but you must know that the attacks do not
> come unwarranted... towards you or to those posting to
> find the easier ways...
| |
| Gary K 2003-03-26, 1:23 pm |
| Matt,
You make some huge assumptions.
First, I have no desire for "book knowledge" without an understanding the
all the underlying technology. Without that understanding an MCSE is only a
deception. And that deception would be perpetrated only on myself. Anyone
who relies on BS'ing their way into a position, without actually being able
to do the work is only fooling themselves.
Your advice about practical knowledge was already covered in my initial
post. I said there I already have a year and a half experience, plus I have
had a test bed up and running for almost a year. I've learned to use a lot
of the tools in the original and supplemental resource kit CD's. I have the
Microsoft Resource Kits, the Mark Minasi Resource Kit, and about 20 other
books on security, AD, scripting, etc... I've read most, and use all of
them as resources for learning.
I learn best by reading and then using that knowledge in practical
experience. Thus the comments on all the condemnation of people using books
to learn. Also, the lack of compassion shown to absolute newbies is
disgusting. All of us were total newbies at one time, and everyone of us
has learned from someone else. We all owe a debt to someone else for part,
if not most, of our knowledge. Very, very, very, few of us, less than 1/100
of 1% of us can claim that we are the ones teaching everyone else. It is
just the opposite.
"Matt" <MattnoChilders.spam_@msn.com> wrote in message
news:eVN1GL88CHA.2520@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > I didn't say an MCSE guarantees me a job. It does say that I have a
> certain
> > level of knowledge.
>
> It is supposed to say you have a certain level of knowledge, unfortunately
> with braindumps and bootcamps this is not true anymore.
>
> >I am also very well aware of the fact that it is going
> > to be very, very difficult to find a job in a new field, especially one
> that
> > is contracting as IT is right now. I look at an MCSE as something that
> may
> > help, and definitely can't hurt, my chances of once again being able to
be
> > gainfully employed. It is simply a step in a direction.
>
> > I have a lot of negatives going against me. I can't lift. I can't
stand
> > for any extended periods of time. I'm almost 50, and having to undergo
a
> > career change, rather than being able to cash in on my years of
experience
> > in what I know very well. I have no illusions as to the difficulties
> lying
> > ahead of me. I'm just hoping against hope that an MCSE will at least
help
> > get me in the front door in some kind of entry level job.
>
> I'm sorry that you are forced to undergo a carrer change, and I wish you
the
> best. You are right an MCSE will help your chances at a entry level job.
> But like I said before do yourself a favor and learn the material so well,
> not just to pass a test, but so you can solve any problem that comes your
> way.
> Once you get an entry level job, if you know your stuff, your supervisors
> will take notice. They remember those things when it comes time to make
> promotions.
>
> Good Luck,
> Matt
>
>
| |
| Keyboard Cowboy 2003-03-26, 1:23 pm |
| Your Daughter, she come to my house and she kick my dog!
>-----Original Message-----
>Let's take a look at what I said:
>
>"I could make you guys all look like idiots too. It
wouldn't take me long
>to expose your ignorance of the terminology and physics
of the HVAC
>profession.
>But, as I said, ignorance isn't stupidity. It is not an
indicator of
>someone's ability to learn."
>
>Now, just where didn't I say you guys don't know
everything about
>everything? That is the definition of the
word "ignorance." I then simply
>gave an example of what I have a whole lot of knowledge
about, and
>something, by talking to quite a few IT people, that most
computer "gurus"
>have basically no knowledge of.
>
>The whole point of my post was that newbies don't know
what experience has
>taught those in any field for any length of time. That
you missed the
>entire point of my post isn't my fault by any stretch of
the imagination.
>
>"Keyboard Cowboy"
<thekeyboardcowboy@nospam.cybersolutionz.com> wrote in
>message news:3e2f01c2f3c1$cc00aff0$a30
1280a@phx.gbl...
>>
>> >How come all you guys get insulted if someone says you
>> are ignorant of
>> >something? Not a one of you know everything there is
to
>> know. Do you guys
>> >not know what ignorance means? It simply means that
you,
>> and I, don't know
>> >everything about everything. Everyone is ignorant
about
>> something. This
>> >is not the same as calling everyone stupid.
>> >
>>
>> Hmm... Now, if you were to come out here and say "that
>> you, and I, don't know everything about everything", I
>> think you would not have gotten the flames and replies
you
>> did... But, since you did not, and you addressed
everyone
>> by saying that " I could make you guys all look like
>> idiots too. It wouldn't take me long to expose your
>> ignorance...", you are only inviting people to respond
in
>> an aggresive manner.
>>
>> People here, and throughout the industry, have a certain
>> attitude towards those who think they can just pick up a
>> book and get a cert... or read a few chapters and get a
>> job. And, those who post to this ng that are attempting
>> to become paper MCSE's will get a certain reply from
those
>> of us that are working their *sses off at it. I applaud
>> you on getting in over your head... Apparently you have
>> not drowned... but you must know that the attacks do not
>> come unwarranted... towards you or to those posting to
>> find the easier ways...
>
>
>.
>
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|
| "Gary K" <dabigfinndog@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:ekq$cW88CHA.2452@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Matt,
>
> You make some huge assumptions.
>
> First, I have no desire for "book knowledge" without an understanding the
> all the underlying technology. Without that understanding an MCSE is only
a
> deception. And that deception would be perpetrated only on myself.
Anyone
> who relies on BS'ing their way into a position, without actually being
able
> to do the work is only fooling themselves.
>
> Your advice about practical knowledge was already covered in my initial
> post. I said there I already have a year and a half experience, plus I
have
> had a test bed up and running for almost a year. I've learned to use a
lot
> of the tools in the original and supplemental resource kit CD's. I have
the
> Microsoft Resource Kits, the Mark Minasi Resource Kit, and about 20 other
> books on security, AD, scripting, etc... I've read most, and use all of
> them as resources for learning.
>
> I learn best by reading and then using that knowledge in practical
> experience. Thus the comments on all the condemnation of people using
books
> to learn. Also, the lack of compassion shown to absolute newbies is
> disgusting. All of us were total newbies at one time, and everyone of us
> has learned from someone else. We all owe a debt to someone else for
part,
> if not most, of our knowledge. Very, very, very, few of us, less than
1/100
> of 1% of us can claim that we are the ones teaching everyone else. It is
> just the opposite.
I just gave you some great advice. Learn the material. period. Then you
tell me that my advice doesn't help you any and that I am not showing
compassion to newbies. No one here is required to give you or anyone else
any help. Quit complaining and take what you can get. If you have to sift
through some junk to get to something helpful, then do so, otherwise go
elsewhere. There's some more advice ;-)
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-03-26, 5:23 pm |
| circa Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:59:29 -0800, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Gary K (dabigfinndog@icqmail.com)
said,
> I'm working towards my MCSE and I have to say that some of the comments on
> this thread about those who are studying "books" are more than a little out
> of line.
>
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with reading books. I highly
encourage it. I just don't encourage it as one's *only* source of
information and experience.
Laura
--
Any condescension detected in this post is fully unintentional and is
solely the perception of the reader. If I think you're an idiot, I'll
tell you that. You won't need to intuit it.
| |
| Laura A. Robinson 2003-03-26, 5:23 pm |
| circa Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:50:08 -0800, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Gary K (dabigfinndog@icqmail.com)
said,
> I didn't say an MCSE guarantees me a job. It does say that I have a certain
> level of knowledge.
>
Unfortunately, because of the vast proliferation of brain dumps and
various other test "assistance", having an MCSE doesn't say squat
about your knowledge.
Laura
--
Any condescension detected in this post is fully unintentional and is
solely the perception of the reader. If I think you're an idiot, I'll
tell you that. You won't need to intuit it.
| |
| Daniel Wilson 2003-03-27, 3:23 pm |
| 216 was the one exam I had to take twice. First time I used the MS book.
It omitted too much stuff. Then I bought the Sybex book. It probably
omitted some stuff too, but it filled in the gaps the MS book left. And the
writing style was SO much more interesting! The MS books for 210-217 are SO
dry!
"Chappy" <chappyg@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:392801c2f327$57bb4500$a60
1280a@phx.gbl...
> Sybex is crap!!! I passed 210 and 215 easily with these
> books, but I failed 216 because the book was CRAP. I
> havce given up on their 217 book. I am going to the
> Microsof books.
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