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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > September 2005 > Kinda Bummed Out. Need Advice.
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Kinda Bummed Out. Need Advice.
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| Pez D Spencer 2005-07-13, 1:02 am |
| Ok heres my story...
Im 28 years old and for the past 10 years Ive been a concrete worker and a welder. About a year or so ago I finally got tired of using my back and decided that I wanted to get a career in IT.
For about 6 years Ive been hardcore into computers would consider myself a "power user" when it comes to DOS/Windows. The community college in my area has the CCNA curriculum courses and when I decided to go back to school that seemed like the best bet because it was really the only thing they offered that led to any sort of certification. Everything else they have is stuff like java/VB programming and web design which doesnt intrest me at all.
Anyway, I went to school for a semester and didnt really care for it because everyone in the CCNA class including the instructor was dumb as a box of rocks and they just went way to slow for me so I dropped out. That school had absolutely nothing to offer me but headaches.
For about the next 6 months or so after that I buried myself in Cisco. I studied the CCNA stuff 10 or more hours a day. I bought me 5 used routers and a couple switches and went to town. I know the CCNA1 and CCNA2 stuff backwards and forward.
It didnt take me long though to realize that a CCNA all by itself really doesnt mean much so I backed off the CCNA and got my A+ and NET+. Thats where I am now. Ill be taking my MCSA 70-270 next month and after that I will go after my 70-290 and 70-291 to complete my MCSA. After that I plan to finish my CCNA and then get my MCSE. My goal is to have the MSCA and CCNA by mid to late 2006. I plan on giving myself at least several months of study for each of the MSCA server exams and the remainder of the CCNA should take around 4 months for me to complete.
The problem with all this is that even though I consider myself a pretty smart guy and I study like there is no tomorrow I wonder what my chances of getting any kind of IT job are after I get my MCSA and CCNA. I wonder this because I will have no college degree at all and on top of that no experience. Two things it seems like every IT job requires these days. It seems like every job I see says Bachelors degree and 5 years experience.
I dont want to give up because networking and computers are my passion. I live eat and breathe computers and networking. Im just really bummed because it seems like I have no chance what so ever of getting into the field that I love.
Plus I know Im only 28 but it seems like 18 was yesterday and before you know it ill be pushing 40. Point bieng that I feel like Im getting old so fast.
On top of all this I have more than a few public intoxication charges on my record from years ago plus a DUI from 5 years ago (I dont party at all anymore). Most of the networking jobs I see on Monster and Dice say that you need security clearnace and seeing as how I have a record this is yet another strike against me.
What should I do? Any advice? Whats my outlook? Thanks. | |
| curiousgeorge 2005-07-13, 3:41 pm |
| With a criminal record, no degree, and no experience, I think you can get a job at McDonald's. Burger King might be an option, but you'll have to move your way up to the fry station. 
But seriously, if you want to start a career in IT, you need to go back to school to get some type of degree. An Associates degree is decent, but a Bachelors degree will give you more opportunity. Also, you should get a job as a student worker in the school's IT department. When you graduate, you'll have your degree and experience.
Certs alone aren't going to do anything for you. You have to back it up with some experience.
Go back to school and stay off the sauce. | |
| phantomfreak 2005-07-13, 6:16 pm |
| Without Education (BA or BS) and Experience (2 to 5 years)it's going to be really difficult to break into IT. There are still plenty of people who have 1 or both and have a tough time finding jobs so imagine someone with out either.
My advice, see if you can get a degree, Federal loans, working, Financial Aid, Grants. Money is no longer an excuse and its never too late.
You're not only in contention with your peers because there are plenty of 28 year olds with 10 years of experience in IT, just like you have 10 years of experience in construction. But also the young guns who will be willing to work for less to gain more experience. So go the education route, my advice.
Good Luck. | |
| Farrell 2005-07-14, 6:01 am |
| I am mind of in the same boat. I have a DUI conviction from about three years back. I did the Comptia certs and all and have a B.S. degree from a reputable college, but even getting an interview now is hard for me. I was employed in IT for seven years and am now 35 and things are looking pretty bleak.
Most of the job openings I see either require a lot of software programming experience and I am not much good at that or they require a lot of hands-on hardware experience like you mentioned.
Although I love computers, I am thinking of going back into welding if I can. It's hard work, but it pays the bills and my computer efforts now seem to be going nowhere. | |
| csnowden 2005-07-17, 2:03 pm |
| Hi Pez,
You are right, some of the smartest people in business do not have a college education. Brian Tracy is my hero and he has some great advise for anyone who wants to be successful. BTW, I have a college degree, but when I was first getting started I couldn't get a good job either.
Since most companies have automated filters, you will get whacked by the screening software. Since you can't use the 'Or Equivalent Experience' alternative, try this approach.
If you really have a passion for what you want to do, nothing will stop you. Try finding a small consulting group who needs a networking guy (even-part time). They are more interested in if you can do the job fast, cheap and right the first time, than in diplomas and degrees. Check with them.
More importantly, check with your church and churches in the area. "DONATE" your services for free or for a discounted rate. If you do a good job for them, they are a pretty good reference for your character, ability and professionalism. Also, chances are there are other members in the church who need your services, if they can be sure you are up for the job.
Hope this helps,
Tenpentacles
PS. Are you really the smartest guy in the room, if you tell people you are the smartest guy in the room? 8-) | |
| asmillie 2005-07-17, 2:14 pm |
| I thought curiousgeorge's reply was extremely rude. First of all when someone is looking for that kind of advice, you don't mention McDonald's as an alternative, even if you are joking. Its a bad joke and not funny at all. The guy has experience in construction and welding which are both far more valuable than working at McDonalds and Burger King. Second of all, the guy already said he has quit drinking and only mentioned it as "baggage" he is carrying that might hinder his background search at a potential employer. Telling him to stay off the sauce when he already is off is another rude comment.
My advice would also be to go back to school and start the hard road of the BA/BS degree. You are only 28 and when you are sitting in your early thirties and almost done you will feel better for it. After a couple years you might be able to put it on your resume that you are doing this (i.e BS Degree, 2007) and show employers that you are trying to turn your life around.
Other than that, with no education your options are the trades (HVAC, electrician, etc) and maybe you can ply your computer skills on the side (a small business). | |
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| Good Luck, there shall be a lot of IT jobs at VA.. | |
| Farrell 2005-07-17, 4:59 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by asmillie
I thought curiousgeorge's reply was extremely rude. First of all when someone is looking for that kind of advice, you don't mention McDonald's as an alternative, even if you are joking. Its a bad joke and not funny at all. The guy has experience in construction and welding which are both far more valuable than working at McDonalds and Burger King. Second of all, the guy already said he has quit drinking and only mentioned it as "baggage" he is carrying that might hinder his background search at a potential employer. Telling him to stay off the sauce when he already is off is another rude comment.
My advice would also be to go back to school and start the hard road of the BA/BS degree. You are only 28 and when you are sitting in your early thirties and almost done you will feel better for it. After a couple years you might be able to put it on your resume that you are doing this (i.e BS Degree, 2007) and show employers that you are trying to turn your life around.
Other than that, with no education your options are the trades (HVAC, electrician, etc) and maybe you can ply your computer skills on the side (a small business).
It is my experience that curiousgeorge rarelt has anything much positive to say.
I would like to agree with what you say, but after a certain time it is hard to go back to school . . . you have bills and responsibilities left and right.
I won't mince words here . . . it is damn hard. But you have to keep trying. Although I have my won PC repair business, even it is hard because PC's are rapidly becoming like VCR's and microwaves are now . . . cheaper to replace than to repair.
I am not rying to be a downer, but so far this has been my experience.
I am trying to learn Java now to get into the software side of things.
Best of luck all. | |
| mikhrvy 2005-07-17, 8:44 pm |
| Hi
All I can say is that I know what you are going through I am 33 yrs old and about 6 years back I wanted to get a job in It so I did the C&G 7261 Hardware course, whilst doing this course I met some good contacts who got me a job as a field service engineer from which I was then able to get a job in a local University as a IT Tech from there I then landed a brilliant job as a Server Analyst for a huge Global IT Outsourcing company. But straight afte the first course I was like yourslef did the Cisco Academy which I agree with you moved too slowly for me got my CCNa 100% then did my MCSA and then my MCSE., then moving into Citrix and beyond.
The hardest thing for you is maybe having to take a paycut just to get into IT then move sideways and then forward.
I dont agree going to University as you proably have bills to pay like i did and that was not an option for myself so just keep at the studying and looking for IT jobvs local and if you get an interview just push how keen you are , remember most peiple exagerate in their interviews but dont go overboard with the studying and exams as you will just be paperbased and just get demoralised.
Let me know how you get on
and best of luck
Mike | |
| wildscribe 2005-07-18, 12:09 am |
| Pez,
If you are really into computers and networking - which it sounds like you are - I
would stick with it. As others have pointed out, having a criminal record certainly
won't help you land a job with a big company, especially when you are starting out.
But there is so much work out there. You just have to come up with a way to find it.
I live in New York City and after getting laid off from a dot com in early 2001,
where I worked as an HTML and Photoshop jockey, I decided that I wanted to be a
network admin and fix computers. I studied for and passed the A+ and Net+ and
started studying for the CCNA.
During this time, I was also looking for a job, but as many people know, it was almost impossible to find an IT job from 2001 to
2003. So I started my own IT business, providing any technical service to anyone
that would pay. I did everything from build custom PCs, designed and coded basic
web sites, removed viruses from PCs, set up wireless networks in homes, even edited
home videos for a family with VideoStudio 6! It was a hustle, but by 2002, I was
doing great and was making more money that I was making when I was at the dot com.
Then in 2003, one of my clients (I set up a wireless network in his home), offered
me a full-time job as a network admin at his real estate company. I like the job
a lot and I am making more with an A+ and Net+ than most folks with CCNPs and MCSEs!
I have learned so much from on-the-job experience. But I do plan to buckle down
this year and get my CCNA. My goal is to eventually get a CCIE.
I have a BA degree in English. And during my IT career I have never had to write a
resume or fill out a job application. As far as I know, no one has ever done a
background check on me. (They wouldn't find anything because the closest I have
come to committing a crime is when I got a speeding ticket five years ago.)
Pez stick with it. I wouldn't let the past criminal record get in the way. Maybe you
could start your own business to get experience, like I did or as another suggested, try to join a small consulting firm. The key is networking - meet as many people and make as many friends as you can. I have made a lot of good contacts from going to PC User Group meetings. That would be a good place to start.
Good Luck!
- - - WiLd | |
| jbachandouris 2005-07-18, 5:53 pm |
| I also wish you luck. I have A+, Network+, Security+, Master Dell DCSE Certification, and most recently an MCSE on Windows 2000. I can't give you any advice because I have been trying for 4 years to break into IT also. I have a 2 year certifcate from DeVry. I do not have any 'issues' with my background and I still can't find anything. My last job was 'break-fix' and I was laid off after 8 months. That was 22 weeks ago. I have a pregnant wife and a 4 year old daughter, so its a little harder for me to consider school until I can find another job. My wife works in daycare, so after baby #2, she won't be returning to work so its all me. She is planning to watch a child or two at the house, but that won't be right away. | |
| kevin1752 2005-07-19, 3:43 am |
| Hang in their, if you work hard it will come. If you apply yourself it will eventually get you in the field. You first tech job may not be all glory, but it will get you started.
I returned to school after being in the flooring business for over 10 years. I went thru the local community college and got my A.S. degree in computer networks. Class of 2000. When in school I was promised lot of money and jobs! When y2k passed their was a lot of extra IT workers out their. I got a job after a couple of months. I took a position as a computer operator, and I had to work the night and weekends shifts to boot. And I had to commute 90 minutes each way. But most of my fellow students that I graduated with didn't find work, so I was greatful for what I had. I learned a lot on the job and it created a stepping stone for me. After two years of being a computer operator, I found a job doing phone tech support for a major AntiVirus company. I still didn't get great money, but my experience was very rewarding. After one year of removing viruses for people. I got a referral for a postion as a Network Administrator and having been doing this for two years now. I have assistants working for me now. Some of them have had DUI's in the past and I don't think that is important, as long as you don't have a current drinking problem and are able to drive to work. If the only thing you have is a DUI then it doesn't matter, unless you want a job with the FBI or something like that.
I got my education then my job, now that I have experience I am going to after the certifications.
The main thing I wanted to point out is that if you try hard, apply yourself, get your foot in the door somewhere, anywhere. The glory and riches may not be their, but your persistance wil reward you in time. | |
|
| Yo, Pez.
Don't get discouraged. I don't care what anyone tells you--there's no tried and true course to getting a good job in IT. A degree is nice (even a two-year Associate's degree from a community college, as opposed to a four-year university degree), certs are fine, and experience is probably the best. Criminal background? Puh-leez! Look at the illiterate halfwit currently sitting in the White House. Convicted drunk driver, coke-dealer (if unconvicted) while in college, and essentially a deserter from his military service obligation. Where's the problem? I don't see a problem. Fifty-one percent of the electorate (or so they say) didn't see a problem.
Twenty-eight years old? I have SHOES older than you, my friend, and I didn't find my "true" calling until I was nearly forty! Keep getting the experience, and the right job will come along, believe me. The best things come to those who wait and love what they're doing in the meantime, and it'll probably fall right into your lap when you least expect it.
 | |
| GoofyGrape 2005-07-19, 11:14 am |
| though it seems things look tough right now, you should keep plugging away at your dream / passion. Someone somewhere will give you the break you need. Don't cut yourself short b/c of past behaviors...all those things have brought you to where you are today. Hang in there. You do great if you really try hard. | |
| phantomfreak 2005-07-19, 5:37 pm |
| Exactly the point, all your past mistakes (with the law) are coming back to haunt you in a way. Lesson to be learned, what you do in the past may come back to hurt you in the future.
Good Luck. | |
| Farrell 2005-07-19, 7:54 pm |
| Great. So tell us how to change our past and we will be all set. Sometimes the lesson can't be leanred until it is too late. And let's face it, I am not condoning what I did, but most people I will wager have done something in their past that could have gotten them in trouble with the law. The rest of you just weren't caught. | |
| gregcurley 2005-07-20, 5:08 pm |
| My advice to you is set up your own buisness, work at what ever you need to to support yourself. Set up a website for your buisness flash as you can, employ a student to do it if you have to. When you get a job, simply employ students to help you as students always need money and you learn at the same time. Degrees are great on paper but they cover such a broad range when you qualify you need more specalised qualifications. You don't have time for this as you'll be too busy making loads of cash. I had a web design company a few years back and didnt put the effort in i should have as i was making a living in my real job, but i got loads of people that needed experence and couldn't get a job as they had no experence and they were a lot more qualified than i'll ever be. This way you'll be helping yourself and those poor graduates that have to work for peanuts to get work experence. All you have to do is manage your new inexperenced workers. Best of luck | |
| smalle 2005-07-21, 1:04 pm |
| Great to see so many people offering good advice, keep it up | |
| darthfeces 2005-07-21, 5:26 pm |
| i think you have to be open and honest to a point.
don't volunteer anything.
i had a dwi in my early 20's.
i was worried about it and still became a cissp.
they're aren't a lot of perfect people out there.
wouldn't you rather have someone that has their act together ... now ?
all those buisness people out there who went to college did the same thing.
at least the ones i hung out with.
one of my burnout buddies is now the #3 utilities picker on the street and makes 3m per year.
and our president......
even the fbi has a cutoff that you have to have smoked pot less then 20 times to be considered (where did they get that number?)
and a lie dectector. no i really dont remember..... | |
| Farrell 2005-07-22, 10:25 am |
| Thats what I am doing. We all screw up sometimes. Thanks for the encouragement. | |
| phantomfreak 2005-07-22, 6:23 pm |
| quote:
And let's face it, I am not condoning what I did, but most people I will wager have done something in their past that could have gotten them in trouble with the law.
I don't think most people have done something in their past that could have gotten them in trouble with the law (aside from Speeding/Parking tickets, but those don't really hurt someone trying to get a job)... and I also don't think we all screw up the same, some people screw up in worse ways then others and that differentiates people who know the difference between whats "right" and whats "wrong".
Given a person who has a criminal record, why would a person take a chance on them when there are plenty of people with out a criminal record? (this doesn't mean that people who don't have a record are always "better") | |
| Farrell 2005-07-22, 6:44 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by phantomfreak
I don't think most people have done something in their past that could have gotten them in trouble with the law (aside from Speeding/Parking tickets, but those don't really hurt someone trying to get a job)... and I also don't think we all screw up the same, some people screw up in worse ways then others and that differentiates people who know the difference between whats "right" and whats "wrong".
Given a person who has a criminal record, why would a person take a chance on them when there are plenty of people with out a criminal record? (this doesn't mean that people who don't have a record are always "better")
I know right from wrong, I just haven't always made the right choices. As for your question, "Given a person who has a criminal record, why would a person take a chance on them when there are plenty of people with out a criminal record?, " maybe I should remind you that both our president and vice president have the same conviction that I had. Why were they chosen over someone else without such nefarious activity in their past?
It wasn't something that I consciously set out to do, it just a mistake. And "screwing up" and actively setting out to cause damage are not the same things. And whole you make a valid point, is my crime worse than those of lawyers who defend people they know are guilty of serious crimes? I think that if you defend a murderer or rapist you are guilty like them as an accomplice. But the law doesn't say so.
But I guess a nice suit goes a long way. | |
| curiousgeorge 2005-07-25, 12:59 am |
| I was offered a VERY good job a few years ago, then they rescinded the offer during my background check because of my credit.
we all take our lumps sooner or later. | |
|
| One thing that struck me about the author of this thread's post is that he seems to have given up on the Cisco course because they were moving too slow. That is part of the problem, I think. If you at least finish the course, then you have that accomplishment under your belt. If not, then you have nothing. There will be many working environments and personalities in the It field (or anywhere else) that are questionable.. one has to just suck it up, whether dealing with insults to one's intelligence in a course, or paper-cert mad HR departments that hire incompetents.
One other thing -- I agree that background checks and credit checks are seriously out of control. they have the effect of creating two classes of citizens with less mobility between them. And I say this as a pro-free market / globalization conservative. | |
| carlitos 2005-07-28, 1:58 am |
| hey guys
i graduated from a community college in 1999
(AAS) in ny, got a job,then married to a Californian girl in 2001
she hated the snow
so i had to move to San Diego in 2003
leaving my job behind
so after making $40 an hour in NY
all I found in sunny SD was job offerings at $8 per hour doing the same duties as in NY
so i just
looked for a small retail space
and opened a tech support bizz
the best thing ever
i am back in college, taking mostly online classes ( when work is slow i do homework)
and making excellent money
if you dont give up
your time is going to come
just keep studying
good luck | |
| Farrell 2005-08-27, 2:49 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by curiousgeorge
I was offered a VERY good job a few years ago, then they rescinded the offer during my background check because of my credit.
we all take our lumps sooner or later.
I have had this happen to me too. But I reckon all is fair in love and employment! :P | |
| walterbyrd 2005-08-28, 4:13 am |
| I have over 25 years in IT, two college degrees (math w/comp sci concentration, and business), graduate work in project management, I have held secret and top-secret clearances, and I have a fair number of certifications. I program in several languages, and have tons of experience in systems and networks.
I was out of work for years, I have only recently got a full-time job; and it's shift work. I'm only making about $50K/year.
I'd get out, if I could, but after doing IT for so long, nobody will even consider me for anything else.
I have a relative who was a GS-16, an IT manager for the federal government. Now he is driving a truck.
Are you really sure you want IT for a living? As IT jobs keep getting exported overseas, the field will only get worse. You say you're 28 now? A lot of companies consider an IT worker washed up at 35. Kids are getting out of high-schools with their CCNA, A+, and MCSE. | |
| jagojago12 2005-09-16, 4:01 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by walterbyrd
I have over 25 years in IT, two college degrees (math w/comp sci concentration, and business), graduate work in project management, I have held secret and top-secret clearances, and I have a fair number of certifications. I program in several languages, and have tons of experience in systems and networks.
I was out of work for years, I have only recently got a full-time job; and it's shift work. I'm only making about $50K/year.
I'd get out, if I could, but after doing IT for so long, nobody will even consider me for anything else.
I have a relative who was a GS-16, an IT manager for the federal government. Now he is driving a truck.
Are you really sure you want IT for a living? As IT jobs keep getting exported overseas, the field will only get worse. You say you're 28 now? A lot of companies consider an IT worker washed up at 35. Kids are getting out of high-schools with their CCNA, A+, and MCSE.
With an outlook like that, chances are, the greatest roadblock you'll encounter is yourself.
Truth be told, the market isn't great anymore and in some sectors, can definetly use improvement, but theres work to be had. A mind operates better the same way a parachute does, open.
This type of thinking is the same thoughts stock-brokers had when the market infamously crashes now and then. Even during slow economy, there is still money to be made in stocks.
If everyone remained in the similiar mood as yourself, people would still be jumping out of Windows like it's Black Tuesday.
The market isn't great anymore, but that doesn't justify not entering it. The money you leave on the table is just going to be taken by someone else, and if there's a passion for it, I rather be happy than get paid better in something I dislike. | |
| phantomfreak 2005-09-16, 9:17 am |
| Well said. | |
| Trailer 2005-09-25, 12:52 pm |
| I don't think that the job market is that great, but in what field do the job applications guarantee you a job?
There will always be companies and computers. Just a matter of getting your foot in the door.
University degree means you are more capable to do your job? I think 5 years on the job experience is more usefull than a text book mentality with no exp.
I was lucky enough to get a job with a guy who owns a small IT company before I opened a book. I asked every person I knew if they knew anyone and I lucked out. The pay isn't great but if I attended the local university for their MCSE course it would
cost me 16k without even writing a cert. But I am lucky enough that he will split any new clients I bring in for him 50/50. So here I am 1 exam out of 8 that I am taking and I make more than a first year mcse grad.
The suggestions about volunteering your services is great. Even if they have a charity event offer your services as a prize for a home user. Worst case scenario is you grab more experience, who knows you may actually gain clients.
Our company has gained clients through other clients so start there.
I don't think I would like to work for a large corp and be stuck in the same routine day in and out. The experience range that I get in a day is what makes my job fun.
I've used your notes to help pass my exam. I can see solely by that how much effort you put into something. Keep going, you will succeed. |
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