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| towelie72 2004-05-06, 4:40 pm |
| How come the CCNA is (arugably) the most popular cert? Especially when most jobs call for a MCSE rather than a Cisco cert. I know a lot of people knock the microsoft certs(mostly by people who dont have them), but they sure don't seem too worthless when you see companies requiring them or at least preferring them | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-05-06, 5:54 pm |
| CCNA and MCSE/MCSA are two different areas.
I have all three certs, but I don't actually use my CCNA knowledge because I'm a network admin. We have other networking guys that deal solely with the Cisco routers.
If you work at a small company with a small IT staff (or if YOU are the IT staff) you may configure routers and do network admin. But large companies hire people to work in only one area.
btw, I didn't know CCNA was popular. Oh well, I'm glad I already have it.  | |
| pcthug 2004-05-06, 9:22 pm |
| I think there are lots of MCPs than CCNAs. MCP exams are braindumped heavily. Unless MS changes its MCSE exam format to exams like CCIE, MCSE will no longer have merits. For example, one of the wanted advertisements in the local paper said a company is looking for 10 MCSEs ASAP. I thought the job market must've really picked up locally as Dubbya claims to happen nationally. But when I read the job description, I said what the f***?. They needed 10 MCSEs to roll out Windows XP workstations. It was a temp job. The MCSEs will install and configure the XPs and roll them out with Ghost. That's it!!!!!
I really doubt if I should continue with my MCSA/MCSE track. I almost want to switch to CCNA, because majority of the local wanted ads require some type of Cisco certification along with MCP. So I started study for the 640-801(CCNA) exam and my next MCSE 70-216 exam at the same time. At least, CCNA study guide should help me on RIP, OSPF and routers for 70-216 exams. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-06, 10:54 pm |
| I would think there are a lot less CCNA's with that higher passing grade. Isn't it like 90% or higher to attain CCNA?
CCNA exams have just as many dumps as Microsoft exams. | |
| s2kfan 2004-05-06, 11:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruscorp
I would think there are a lot less CCNA's with that higher passing grade. Isn't it like 90% or higher to attain CCNA?
CCNA exams have just as many dumps as Microsoft exams.
No, it's about 78.5%, don't let the score fool you. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-06, 11:33 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by s2kfan
No, it's about 78.5%, don't let the score fool you.
you sure? | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-05-07, 9:58 am |
| When I got my CCNA 3 years ago, the passing score was 88%. I ended up with a 91%. | |
| jamila 2004-05-07, 11:02 am |
| My husband's first try with the CCNA March 2002 was an 828 which he thinks 3-4 questions short..
Took the same test after a week and passed with a 925. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-07, 11:19 am |
| That's what I figured.
78% seems a bit low for CCNA. | |
| Spides 2004-05-07, 11:20 am |
| When I did mine last year 640-507 it was 899 pass mark.........most of the jobs I have gone for the CCNA was seen as fare enough but you won't use it here, blah blah..............i did it because I wanted to do something different from Microsoft | |
| mikop 2004-05-07, 12:12 pm |
| 1. the score sheet
or
2. cisco.com
range is 300-1000
passing score of 850ish.
850-300 = 550
1000-300 = 700
thus
550/700 is approximately 78.6% | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-07, 12:51 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
1. the score sheet
or
2. cisco.com
range is 300-1000
passing score of 850ish.
850-300 = 550
1000-300 = 700
thus
550/700 is approximately 78.6%
We stand corrected.
Thank you. | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-05-07, 4:07 pm |
| That calculation is incorrect.
The passing score is around 88/89 %
By the way you are trying to calculate it, you can miss 30% of the questions and still get a perfect score!?!?
That's incorrect.
I'm not sure that the lowest score is 300, but if it is, it only means that all those dumb enough to get 30% or less correct on the test just get a flat 300. That doesn't mean they add 300 to all actual scores. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-07, 4:38 pm |
| Does anyone have an offical Cisco infomation on that or they don't give out they type of information? | |
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| ruscorp 2004-05-07, 6:08 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
sniff
No thanks, I'm not into chewing tobacco. | |
| thebonzodog 2004-05-10, 2:45 am |
| Mikop is absolutely right.
You need to pass about 78% of the questions to pass the exam.
The pass mark for the exam is 875.
However, you get 300 points just for turning up.
So you need to score 575 points out of 700 to pass.
This is approximately 78%
Going back to the original point; the fact that people are asking for MCSEs to do Mickey Mouse jobs does not make them unnecessary. The decent jobs will still ask for them, and if you haven't got them then you will suffer in the job-hunting arena.
I took my CCNA just for the knowledge, I don't intend progresing it to a CCIE or anything. Studying for it will definately help in the ops 216 studies though, as the CCNA gives you a much better overall picture of what is going on, if that makes any sense. | |
| towelie72 2004-05-10, 3:46 am |
| maybe my instructor gave me bad advice. he said the microsoft certs were worthless | |
| rboothlv 2004-05-10, 8:14 am |
| don;t be fooled by the score levels I have had my toughest test on the low bar. it would appear that the lower the passing score the harder the test. on the high passing I have found a number of what I call gimme questions. but the loow score, all the questions were very hard and made you think.
just my two cents worth
Richard Booth
MCSE 4.0 MCP 2000
MCP Cluster Server  | |
|
| I am in a good mood, so let me address couple issues.
I had to edit my 2nd post in this thread earlier because the tone was too combative and dismissive.
SAT. I assume since many who posted seem to be from the US, you should be familiar with its scoring system (Assuming it hasn't change in the last 13 years or so).
This information as I indicated is also on all cisco career certification scoring sheet and on cisco website.
I have been taught that the best information is first hand information right from the horses mouth. As I had advocated in many of my posts, the best path to find the right information is to research it from sources that matter, rather than rely on sources that may or may not know the real deal. The fact is, this forum among many others would often go on a tangent and often ppl back each otehr in misinformation, thus lead to confusion when the answer is right out there accessible to you and I in less than a minute or two of looking around.
For example, cisco.com/certification would bounce you to their certification site (which is also accessible through conventional mean of looking through their page). On the right you would see certification support online. A search of scoring or other terms would lead one to a great amount of inforamtion. The enrgy of posting "you sure?" posts or engaging in debate is wasted energy.
The whole discussion is mute because if one is current, or even in old exams, the scoring system has always been skewed. The points are not evenly distributed. In the old exam, the drag/drop questions are scored more. In the new exams, the simulation has a very large percentage, thus making knowledge of the 75-80 percentage pass mark irrelevant in general.
------------------------------------
To the original poster. Ccna popularity, if indeed it is popular, is because many seem to think it is a minimum requirement one needs to know about networks to be functional. Net+ is severly lacking as it only introduce the most basic of networking, like what is class a, b, c. which for a working professional, is absolutely elementary and will never come into play. I would equate it as some class that teach you A B C, instead of elementary english composition or something like that that help you put all the pieces together to be functional. It treats mesh networks and routing protocols like one would treat "this is a square, this is a circle, this is a triangle" instead of real world applications such as geometry and trigonometry.
MCSE bashing... ppl bash mcse not because the curriculum, but because the candidates. Nearly all certification suffer the same criticism. CCNA is not fool proof and is indeed plaqued with cheating. You will see that as a certification gain popularity, these things follow. For example, cisco's security certification was "Cisco Security Specialist 1" which was not well known and has very little material on it other than official course work and cisco website. I don't believe any one had any practice on it other than boson, which had it quite late. However, since security became hot, and the certification become professional level, every borderline exam site has some sort of "practice" exams. So... which do you think have more validity? I am very skeptical of every clueless idiot that showed up in the cisco security forum asking the msot basic question or asking for links who come back in 2 weeks with a "I pass " stuff. The same is true with security+ and others.
As a cert mature, it come under increase skepticism. This is a catch 22. You want your cert to be in high demand, to be popular. But with that popularity it would then become attractive for those who simply wish to capitalize on its popularity with no regard to diminishing its relative usefulness in gauging qualification.
My advice to you, think of certification as a path for your own learning and improvement to stay competitive and not think of the letters itself to keep you competitive. Will ccna mean anything? perhaps not, Will MCSE mean anythinng? dunno... but will knowing how to configure cisco router be valuable to you if you work on cisco? yes. Will knowing routing protoocols be valuable to you if you work on a network? Yes. Will knowing active directory be useful to you? will knowing how to add/remove user and the most basic stuff covered in mcse be useful? will knowing the basic tools from microsoft be useuful? Yes. Can you acquire those knowledge without certifications? certainly and many do. But for many, it is 1. an added bonus, and 2. a path with both short term and long term goal that can be easily followed. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 11:41 am |
| Cicso sounds good but I wouldn't be interested in anything other than CCNA.
It's tough to get any hands on. It's not like a have a Cisco router just lying around my house to screw with. Same goes for Novell. I found Novell very tough to learn because I could not take it home and out of the classroom as I did with NT/2000.
I would have to agree with mikop in that MCSE bashing roots from the testing candidates and Network+ is lacking in a lot of areas. I know first hand because I CANNOT subnet due to my "mathematical disability" and stiff managed to get a good grade. I score like 750 I think.
My "mathematical disability" as I like to refer to it; stems from the fact I graduated high school with only knowledge of freshman math. | |
| towelie72 2004-05-10, 1:47 pm |
| that was one heckuva post mikop. As far as cheaters go, how stupid is it to cheat just to passs an exam and then not be able to do the actual hands on during the job?? I enjoy the learning aspect and know that each thing that i learn will better myself.
hey ruscorp, there are PLENTY of used Cisco Routers on Ebay. I got my 2 2501 for great price! | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 1:55 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by towelie72
hey ruscorp, there are PLENTY of used Cisco Routers on Ebay. I got my 2 2501 for great price!
I don't know if I trust someone on eBay with expensive Cisco routers. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 1:56 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruscorp
My "mathematical disability" as I like to refer to it; stems from the fact I graduated high school with only knowledge of freshman math.
Subnetting requires just some basic math. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 2:02 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
Subnetting requires just some basic math.
Math is never "basic" to me. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 2:09 pm |
| But its just addition and changing bases. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 2:38 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
But its just addition and changing bases.
As if I know what "changing bases" means? | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 2:42 pm |
| Addition.
0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 (binary)
128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1
64 + 8 + 1 = 74 (decimal) | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 2:49 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
64 + 8 + 1 = 74 (decimal)
74 whats? What was the question? | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 3:00 pm |
| to convert 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 to decimal. start from right allowing rightermost digit to hold the value of 1, then double it as you proceed to the 8th position. add the values up. thats all the math you need for subnetting. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 3:13 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
to convert 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 to decimal. start from right allowing rightermost digit to hold the value of 1, then double it as you proceed to the 8th position. add the values up. thats all the math you need for subnetting.
I never said I couldn't convert binary to decimal and vice-versa. I said I can't subnet. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 3:34 pm |
| Well, that about all the maths you need. If you can do that much, the rest is easy. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 4:28 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
Well, that about all the maths you need. If you can do that much, the rest is easy.
I tried, looks harder than I thought. | |
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| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 5:12 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
http://www.mcsefreak.com/subnetting.htm
try it. once u do a few times, it comes easier.
I've read freak's guide before.
It's all greek to me... | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 5:22 pm |
| what part you get confused at? | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 5:34 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
what part you get confused at?
4.) What is subnetting? | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-10, 6:40 pm |
| that means you break up one network into several smaller networks. | |
| towelie72 2004-05-10, 7:26 pm |
| i find it hard to believe, with you having network+, that you dont even know what subnetting is | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-10, 8:08 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by towelie72
i find it hard to believe, with you having network+, that you dont even know what subnetting is
Subnetting is not covered on Network+. Obviously you have not read the exam objectives. Please do so at http://www.comptia.org.
bsdboy: That part I already know. I know what subnetting is; I understand its function. My problem is very basic...I can't comprehend the math. Math needs to be taught to me in a very basic manner otherwise you will lose me. When you start throwing letters multiplied my numbers, my head starts to spin. Then I will get frustrated and probably change some user's password to cool myself off. I haven't the slightly clue how to solve even if you give me the formula. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 10:22 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruscorp
bsdboy: That part I already know. I know what subnetting is; I understand its function. My problem is very basic...I can't comprehend the math. Math needs to be taught to me in a very basic manner otherwise you will lose me. When you start throwing letters multiplied my numbers, my head starts to spin. Then I will get frustrated and probably change some user's password to cool myself off. I haven't the slightly clue how to solve even if you give me the formula. [/B]
multiplying numbers and letters is algebra. you dont need that to subnet. just know the change of bases like I showed above.
for example, per freak's site, you change first 131.107.2.4 into octet:
10000011.01101011.00000010.00000100. only algebra comnes in is where 2^N -2 = number of hosts you can make, where N is your number of host bits. so we has (2^8)-2 = 254 hosts.
That means that in our example, we have the 131.107.2.x network, which contains 254 possible IP addresses, all local to each other.
then you use a table to see how many sybnets can you have based on your subbet mask. then you split up the ranges evenly and have your subnetwork. it is all just adding. | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-05-11, 11:00 am |
| Actually, Freak's guide is about 90% correct.
He uses the subnetting equation two different ways, but only explains one of the ways he's using it.
Also, his explanation of how many subnets you can create is lacking. He only gives examples that fit exactly into his little chart.
He doesn't explain how or why you can create 15 subnets or 7 subnets or 31 subnets.
He doesn't even explain binary! He only gives the value.
Maybe he doesn't know all that stuff.
I would find a better source for explaining subnetting because his is lacking. | |
| darthfeces 2004-05-11, 11:24 am |
| we'll it's the start of the road to ccie ... everyone wants to be a ccie.
the cisco track seems to command the most respect and SALARY of the current it certs
my 2c | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 11:31 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by darthfeces
we'll it's the start of the road to ccie ... everyone wants to be a ccie.
the cisco track seems to command the most respect and SALARY of the current it certs
my 2c
It sure does. They keep you on your feet with renewing your knowledge unlike Microsoft and CompTIA.
curiousgeorge: freak is a good writer however I must agree that I found the end part confusing.
bsdboy: "^" means +, -, x or ÷? I don't recall seeing that one in math class. | |
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| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 11:57 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
exponent
so he wrote
2 to the nth power then -2
http://www.3com.com/other/pdfs/infr...n_US/501302.pdf
really read it instead of just looking over it.
Very nice guide. However are you insinuating that I just skim things? | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 12:57 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruscorp
bsdboy: "^" means +, -, x or ÷? I don't recall seeing that one in math class.
The caret is for exponents. so you see 2^3 = 2 times 2 times 2 = 8. and 2^4 = 2 times two times two times two = 16, and so forth. just multiplication.
freaks guide is not all there is to know, but for someone who dont already know, it is a good starter place. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 1:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
The caret is for exponents. so you see 2^3 = 2 times 2 times 2 = 8. and 2^4 = 2 times two times two times two = 16, and so forth. just multiplication.
Exponents eh? I barely remember how to do them. I remember them being expressed something like this though: 4³.
I remember that to be: 4 x 4 = 16 x 4 = 64.
Answer: 4³ = 64? | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 1:36 pm |
| Yeah, that right. the exponent and the change of base to binary is all the math you needs for subnetting. the rest is understanding ip addressing. you can almost do it in your head once you get used to it. very simple. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 1:46 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
you can almost do it in your head once you get used to it. very simple.
You're talking to the guy who has trouble counting his own money sometimes.  | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 1:51 pm |
| that make two of us.  but thats all the math you need. the rest is just ip stuff. certainly not beyond you if you can do mcp tests. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 1:55 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
that make two of us. but thats all the math you need. the rest is just ip stuff. certainly not beyond you if you can do mcp tests.
Those exams didn't require math. Just good reading comprehension ability. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 1:59 pm |
| u just showed that you can do all the math required. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 3:24 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
u just showed that you can do all the math required.
yea, and I also admitted I can't do 9th grade math. | |
| bsdboy 2004-05-11, 3:34 pm |
| you dont need 9 grade math. | |
| ruscorp 2004-05-11, 3:40 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bsdboy
you dont need 9 grade math.
I'm glad someone agrees. |
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