|
Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > May 2004 > Globalisation means we lose jobs to India
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Globalisation means we lose jobs to India
|
|
| Study_tx 2003-08-29, 11:08 pm |
| During last year , over 1 million jobs move to India . 4.3 million jobs ,That's the number of U.S jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research.
In late 2002, computer giant Oracle announced that it would double its workforce in India. Texas Instruments already employs over 2,000 engineers at a Bangalore campus, and has made plans for a much bigger presence in the near future. In November of 2002, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates announced that the company will be making investments of approximately $500 million in India.
And, It's not just technology jobs that have ended up in India. Charles Schwab recently moved part of its information technology division to a contractor in Bangalore, India. AOL already has a large presence in India. American Express and British Airways have ramped up their employment in the country during the past year as well.
FRONTLINE WORLD reported last year that over half of Fortune 500 companies have moved jobs offshore, including famous names from many fields: Oracle, Dell, HSBC, Delta Air Lines, Novartis, J.P. Morgan Chase, Hewlett-Packard, American Express, British Airways. More are expected to follow.
We American people need a good president that tell to these companies ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CARE ABOUT US NOT CARE ABOUT THE INTERSET OF HIS RICH FRIENDS.
We need a bill that requires for every American company to have at least 85% of it work force must be either American or US legal resident. Because we are the one who pay taxes not the Indians. | |
| mikop 2003-08-29, 11:18 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
We American people need a good president that tell to these companies ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
We CALIFORNIANS need a governor that tell the rest of AMERICANS that enuff is enuff!!! no more job move to middle of nowhere midwest like TEXAS... who think they can create another silicon valley in Dallas !!! HAH!!! how many lost money in real estate thinking they will see the similar realestate boom there as in the Bay Area ;/
We need AHNOLD!!!! Biz into California, not to the rest of the US!!! 
You see... for us living where the property in a trailer park cost 300K, even moving jobs to texas, or for god's sake, kanasa (was it chodan that posted earlier with a beautiful house with a big lawn costing around 120K?) is bad and unfair!
so... yes screw jobs oversea, but heh, screw jobs going to you too!!!
GO CALI!
MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! | |
| azimuth40 2003-08-30, 1:35 am |
| mikop whats with the new avatar  . Is that the thinker or are you letting people know that you are tired of taking it and you are going to leave some now. Total Recall now. | |
| Frujinator 2003-08-30, 2:53 pm |
| Now this just pisses me off. Just because some kids in India get degrees in the IT Field, that gives them no freakin right to take jobs from hard working American individuals.
There have been many of these cases, and it has got to stop. Companies like HP, NEC, Microsoft, etc, etc. are firing people are experts in their field, and bringing in entry level graduates because they don't want a big salary.
There should be a law against this, and I hope it happens. If the people in India want jobs, build your own freakin companies!
And stop taking jobs from hard working American Individuals who have more knowledge, experience, and can speak English better than you can.
If this keeps happening, soon our whole country will be full of people from India because they can take a pay cut. Hey, why not even get a president from India, or a governor, I'm pretty sure they won't mind taking a big salary cut in order to take someones job!
Stop the outsourcing! | |
| azimuth40 2003-08-30, 3:12 pm |
| Don't blame India, blame the American companies that do it. If it was not India it would be another country. In fact there are other countries. America is not the only country facing this problem. It is happening in Europe, Japan, Singapore, etc., they all are losing jobs to countries where the cost of living is lower.
If a company offered you a job allowing you to feed your family, would you turn it down because the company was not an American based company. If not then don't blame India, this problem is much deeper than something that could easily turn into bigotry.
PBS had an interesting piece on television last night, a real eye opener. Several U.S. states, 16 it think it was, even administer their welfare programs offshore. Only one state passed a law and had the work brought back supplying more jobs and even forcing them to hire some past welfare recipients. The original logic that caused this problem defies imagination. | |
|
| hard working americans?
oh give me a break.
you need to get out more... come to the bay area out of the sh*thole near Sacramento and see what is high tech.
Have something against Indians? lets see how these high tech companies around here are built.
Can't find a job, is it because you can't compete? People are willing to work for less? tell that to the rest of Americans who live outside of New York and California. Companies registering in Nevada and other tax friendly states while their base of operation is in California? nay, that does not happen.
You know what is really killing high tech jobs in America? The millions who wished to capitalize on the boom and forgo colleges, engineering degrees in favor of *certifications*.... 3 month of schooling and boom, they are network engineers, system administrators who can't compete... whereas in India and China the traditional framework of going to universities and pursuing EE is still looked on as the path for a technology career and from it are a pool of labor that has little problem writing scripts for system administration, who has no problem analyzing complex issues and who can think freely.
Look around... compare the average quality of the individuals here and go look around a popular technology newsgroup or mailing list and you will see the differences in ability, it is very apparent and unfortunately, for the last few years, all we have be putting into the labor pools is people who can't analyze but can pass a few tests.
This isn't high tech... this is low tech stuff that they qualify, if even that... We all laugh about calling level 1 support and get nothing and we complain about the quality of support when others are more competitive... they can provide the level of support I expect.
Americans speak better English? laugh... Give me a break... I constantly wonder how my grammar can be so bad when some new immigrants are always technically correct in their english.
Will our country be full of Indians and other foreign labors? maybe... I mean, we are almost a nation of ITT vocationally trained *high tech* nations... if they are more qualify, hell, hire them. I invest in companies so they can do well and earn me money, not for them to be some social services so they can provide jobs even when it hurts the company... so if they have to look elsewhere to be competitive... then we have an issue that is more complicate than these simply uneducated outcry of companies moving offshore.
The biggest issue even if you want to take that narrow view is as I had posted... don't point your finger at India and others, point it inward... Now suddenly it isn't so easy to attack fellow Americans now isn't it? Or from my perspective, even companies moving to central valley to the likes of you is hurting me... you ARE willing to undercut my salary aren't you? because the cost of living is simply lower where you are...
And let's not forget... the IT market in US is crap... companies are positioning to tap into emerging countries for growth... so your view is really too narrow and quite honestly, uneducated. You are swayed by very specific use of data... Hell, go to forrester and read THEIR report about labor shortfall in India... and then wonder how they can claim on the other hand about this billion labor pool just looking to *steal* our jobs... Data are objective, analysist of the same data from different perspective and motive can derive vastly different conclusion.
Anyway... ask why your average americans are still using dial up where the rest of the world had embraced broadband and ask what is your regular hick in the middle of nowhere crying about jobs moving oversea contribute to the bottom line of these corporations who had to make that decision. | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-01, 8:30 pm |
| I think one point here is that no US president is ever going to tell the likes of a Bill Gates or similiar how to run their business. There is not a hope. Outsourcing should be recognised as a corporately viable option for the simple fact that it saves money. The mechanism is extremely simple and it is called a rate of exchange...
The rate of exchange between US dollars and Indian rupees actually.
That said I am not in favour of an advantageous approach in terms of the possibility of second world exploitation.
If that is occurring then I think we should consider whether the pursuit of money simply for the sake of money was ever worth it.
In my opinion it isn't.
However to each their own and have a jolly nice time perpetually chewing on your money. | |
| mindmesh 2003-09-05, 2:35 pm |
| No one is stealing your job. They said the same thing about blacks moving into the work force and now about illegal immigrants a couple of years ago. If you can pay an Indian 10K to do what you want 50K to do then it's bad business not to. It only makes sense. As for the country will be crawling with Indians, it already is. Ever been to the East Coast, if so stop at a gas station or a seven eleven. Who cares if they're here. You are using the same arguements used to villify the Irish when they were coming to the US. As far as the programmers from india coming here, why would they. If they come here then they are in the same situation as you. They need higher pay to survive. They can stay and india and keep your job why come here and loose it?
The last thing we need is more coporate regulations on businesses. We get too much more Regulations and we'll be just like india. Too Socialist to have a strong small business growth and we'll need foreign companies for jobs.
If you want to get you point across protest, boycott, pickett, write letters, call the news, etc.. make a big stink to the American public about it and maybe some pressure will force companies to keep many of the jobs here. Otherwise get into medicine. They can't outsource a Doctor but they sure as hell can charge him out the @ss for isnurance.
Nurses are always in demand. Good pay and no insurance.. Good luck bro. | |
| DivxGuy 2003-09-06, 11:57 am |
| quote:
... I constantly wonder how my grammar can be so bad when some new immigrants are always technically correct in their english.
Some, but not most (the typical newcomer has lousy English skills).
BTW your grammar is actually pretty good!
On the subject of degrees versus certs, the former are expensive, time-consuming, and are increasingly not worth the effort (hence the plummetting enrollement in IT-related degree programs over the last two years).
RD | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-06, 8:41 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by DivxGuy
Some, but not most (the typical newcomer has lousy English skills).
BTW your grammar is actually pretty good!
On the subject of degrees versus certs, the former are expensive, time-consuming, and are increasingly not worth the effort (hence the plummetting enrollement in IT-related degree programs over the last two years).
RD
I've figured it out!
Just don't work.
You don't live the high life exactly.
But it sure beats all that certs. Vs. Degrees stuff! | |
| Kasor 2003-09-08, 10:37 am |
| Again, if the U.S Govn't and big corporation don't think about our next generation in America. We will lose everything. Rich people get richer and poor man get poorer than ever.
The outsourcing are very strong on the last few yr since Bush at the house...
Guess, we do need a non-rep "P" | |
| DivxGuy 2003-09-08, 11:43 am |
| The outsourcing is due to a fundamental restructuring in the U.S. economy (encouraged by an artificially high U.S. currency).
It would be occurring no matter who was President. | |
| Papiya 2003-09-08, 1:37 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
During last year , over 1 million jobs move to India . 4.3 million jobs ,That's the number of U.S jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research.
In late 2002, computer giant Oracle announced that it would double its workforce in India. Texas Instruments already employs over 2,000 engineers at a Bangalore campus, and has made plans for a much bigger presence in the near future. In November of 2002, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates announced that the company will be making investments of approximately $500 million in India.
And, It's not just technology jobs that have ended up in India. Charles Schwab recently moved part of its information technology division to a contractor in Bangalore, India. AOL already has a large presence in India. American Express and British Airways have ramped up their employment in the country during the past year as well.
FRONTLINE WORLD reported last year that over half of Fortune 500 companies have moved jobs offshore, including famous names from many fields: Oracle, Dell, HSBC, Delta Air Lines, Novartis, J.P. Morgan Chase, Hewlett-Packard, American Express, British Airways. More are expected to follow.
We American people need a good president that tell to these companies ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CARE ABOUT US NOT CARE ABOUT THE INTERSET OF HIS RICH FRIENDS.
We need a bill that requires for every American company to have at least 85% of it work force must be either American or US legal resident. Because we are the one who pay taxes not the Indians.
I don't see the problem here. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-09, 11:50 am |
| Papiya
Of course u like the fact ur people steal jobs from us.American companies for American people.Indian companies for Indian people. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-09, 12:02 pm |
| DivxGuy
I always agree what u wrote except this time.If we have a great president that stop free trade with contries that does not meet american standards such as ( minimum salary, workers rights,........) like India for example.
We should have free trade with contries that does not have competitive advantage over us.
I propose to solve the problem of outsourcing by requiring for every American company to have at least 90% of its work force must be American or Residents. I believe EU has laws that protect it population from outsourcing.
We should learn from OLD EUROPE I know this president dont like that but he must Admit OLD EUROPE ONCE AGAINST PROVED THAT THEY ARE RIGHT AND Mr Bush is Wrong. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-09, 12:05 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kasor
Again, if the U.S Govn't and big corporation don't think about our next generation in America. We will lose everything. Rich people get richer and poor man get poorer than ever.
The outsourcing are very strong on the last few yr since Bush at the house...
Guess, we do need a non-rep "P"
U ARE RIGHT WE SHOULD HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO UNDERSTAND FINANCE AND CARE ABOUT US NOT FOR HIS RICH FRIENDS
GOD BLESS USA | |
| Papiya 2003-09-09, 1:06 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
Papiya
Of course u like the fact ur people steal jobs from us.American companies for American people.Indian companies for Indian people.
It's not "stealing". It's something called "free enterprise". If you don't like it, why not move to China? I hear they hate capitalist ideas. | |
| DivxGuy 2003-09-09, 3:02 pm |
| quote:
I hear they hate capitalist ideas.
Not any more, they don't!
Today, China is a one-party state that is communist in name only.
RD | |
| Papiya 2003-09-09, 3:28 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by DivxGuy
Not any more, they don't!
Today, China is a one-party state that is communist in name only.
RD
Hmmm, then what place is left for our friend Study_tx to go to, then?  | |
| StevoC 2003-09-09, 3:54 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Papiya
It's not "stealing". It's something called "free enterprise".
I agree with Papiya's comments...the jobs aren't being stolen, their given to other countries by those who outsource. Can't blame the little guy too much...except maybe the little guy in the US demands (or believes) he's worth more than others. | |
| DivxGuy 2003-09-09, 4:13 pm |
| quote:
Hmmm, then what place is left for our friend Study_tx to go to, then?
North Korea or Cuba. | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-09, 8:33 pm |
| Maybe the U.S. should join the European Union??? | |
| badger11 2003-09-09, 9:32 pm |
| While in college studying for the Communications Systems Management degree I was taught about a concept called following the rising sun. The concept is about using the global work force to complete work in a shorter period of time and to also save money. This is now happening on a somewhat limited scale.
In America we have roughly 150 million in the work force. That is 150 million in the age group that is not in high school or retired etc... that seeks to be fully employed. If 4.3 million jobs leave the country by 2015 that equates to %2.8 of the total work force.
We have had an unusual set of circumstances come upon us at once. We all know what they are. That is one of the reasons you and I are having a rough time being either unemployed, under employed or afraid of losing our jobs.
The jobs moving to India has nothing to do with Indians being better educated than US workers. This is proven by the fact that a lot of people from India come to the US for their higher education needs. Just look around at any university to see the truth. And are they smarter? Maybe a few, but as a whole they are on the same level as the rest of us Americans.
I remember the Japanese threat to our economy. Talk at the time was that we would be over run by Japanese Business practices and the work ethics of the Japanese people. That did not materialize. We Americans learned from the Japanese and adopted some of their business practices such as just in time.
Technology is evolving requiring a smaller work force but a smarter work force. We have gone through the infrastructure-building phase. This phase required a large work force to complete. The next phase is about using technology in a more efficient and productive manner, which requires fewer but better educated people that have knowledge and experience in more than one area of IT.
Multinational Companies will use cheap labor to their advantage. Once the human resources in one area become hard to come by or to expensive they will look to other populations for their needs. If you want to work for a fortune 500 company in the Information Technology Field in the United States in the near future you need to become better educated so that you may become part of a corporations strategic planning for their IT needs to keep them competive on a global scale. Most of the other types of IT jobs especially low level programming and help desk support will move out of the United States to areas with cheaper labor costs such as India. | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-09, 9:38 pm |
| I never knew that *badger* was such a popular handle!
So there were 10 *badgers* before you??
LOL!!! | |
|
|
| DivxGuy 2003-09-10, 2:38 am |
| quote:
If you want to work for a fortune 500 company in the Information Technology Field in the United States in the near future you need to become better educated so that you may become part of a corporations strategic planning for their IT needs to keep them competive on a global scale.
At this point in time I want out of IT, period.
One of my instructors said tonight that IT demand will rebound and there will be a shortage again. I don't believe that for a minute.
RD | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-10, 4:55 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by badger11
Helen, so unbelievable as it may sound, was born from an egg laid by Leda, or Nemesis.
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Helen.html
So, whats up with your handle?
Yeah I know.
I have no eyes!
Where are my eyes?
I have never heard of *Leda* except in reference to a swan ...
Can a swan beat up on 11 badgers?
That is all I am interested in! | |
| badger11 2003-09-10, 3:38 pm |
| IT Skills Will Beat Political Influence
Tom Austin
Sector GM and Research Fellow Emeritus
Recent research on sourcing, including a report on outsourcing backlash, has generated a lot of discussion. We all know that jobs are lost to lower-price competitors every day. Just look at the people working for most major airlines. For those who still have jobs, wages have likely been cut in half, if not more drastically. Are the people who are (or were) at the established airlines --the rank and file workers -- angry? I suspect they're mad as hell but can't do much about it.
We at Gartner are not political analysts and profess no expertise on how the political scene will unfold -- but we do see the big issue here: jobs. In the United States, jobs (or the lack thereof) will likely be a huge issue in the 2004 elections. A reduction in the U.S. unemployment rate won't be enough to defuse this issue since unemployment drops when people give up looking for work. If there isn't serious growth in jobs, there are likely to be shifts in power among the political parties.
But what can businesses do? Does legislation to protect jobs from overseas flight solve the problem?
In the long run, legislation would cut a country’s competitiveness. Look at what happened in Germany (the auto industry in particular). To improve competitiveness, Germany allowed more jobs to move to lower-wage countries to sustain German "industrial competitiveness."
There may be short-term political moves to protect jobs -- again, we're not experts on the political scene -- but we do believe that any moves to force local spending will tend to fail in the long term. This isn't an IT industry phenomenon (just ask your favorite airline employee -- with years of training and experience).
Burying our heads and failing to talk about job loss won’t make the issues go away or reverse the trend. However, the trend will reverse when there is a sharp increase in demand for IT skills, when demand exceeds supply. Therein lies another message: IT pros who continuously develop valuable new skills are highly valued! So IT pros need to keep their edge.
http://outsourcing.weblog.gartner.c...ex.php?blogid=9 | |
| DivxGuy 2003-09-10, 4:53 pm |
| quote:
Therein lies another message: IT pros who continuously develop valuable new skills are highly valued! So IT pros need to keep their edge.
Hmm...I'll believe that when I see it.
RD | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-10, 8:02 pm |
| Burying our heads and failing to talk about job loss won’t make the issues go away or reverse the trend. However, the trend will reverse when there is a sharp increase in demand for IT skills, when demand exceeds supply. Therein lies another message: IT pros who continuously develop valuable new skills are highly valued! So IT pros need to keep their edge.
---------------------------------------------
Burying your head is a commonplace activity over issues like money ...
I am not sure about *continuously developing new skills*: there is the point that I've already had my education thank you very much and this is a valid one. Essentially from the perspective say of the programming languages like C/C++ nothing has really ever changed in years and years. There is always the latest *throw me out this time next year technology* and I suppose you should try and be the judge of what does or does not fall under this category. Is it not fair to say that one's skills *are valuable already*? Why is there this *always round the next corner approach*? If attitudes like that generally prevail then it will weaken your chances towards prospective employers. Training after university/certs or other combinations is probably more valid in I.T. than in other work sectors but I think is overstressed. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-24, 7:22 pm |
| It's not much of a secret that the American economy has been a catastrophe for the entire course of the Bush administration. What seems to be an open secret is the fact that economic policies embraced by Bush.
The year and a half prior to 9/11 saw the loss of 1.6 million American jobs. The six months following 9/11 saw the loss of an additional 2.5 million American jobs. Obviously, Americans are right in thinking they have a lot to fear; but the truth is that they have far more to fear than they have yet come to realize. That's because millions and millions and millions of additional American jobs are going to be lost in the decade ahead, particularly better-paying jobs. And that's due to the process euphemistically known as "globalization". | |
| technologie 2004-05-10, 12:51 pm |
| no one is threat to any one, technology is not the sole property of america. the future world is to asins, China and india will rule the world.. its our time
hehehe | |
| badger11 2004-05-10, 3:03 pm |
| technologie,
You’re a fool. Who owns the intellectual rights to the code you are working on? It is the American Companies that you work for. India IT workers are just pawns in American multinational companies, nothing more. Your country’s IT workers perform mostly maintenance work and do not create innovation. Without innovation all you have is temporary work, nothing more. As soon as cheaper countries agrees through treaties to protect American intellectual rights our work will then move to their country since they are even cheaper than you are. The bigger your ego gets the bigger the fool you will look like when you are back to herding goats. By the way what is an asins? Learn how to spell and then you may have a shot at writing efficient code. |
|
|
|
|