| Author |
Are You A Well Qualified/Experienced Yet Underpaid or Unemployed IT Professional ?
|
|
| charlie130 2004-03-27, 12:58 am |
| Let's think further about our employment,pay and job export issues. Instead of infighting and backbiting, I am asking, why dont we, or why havent we organized as a union(s) not only to protect and enhance our profession's compensation and jobs, but also to setup qualification standards to certify member skills or apprentice programs for new entrants to learn the ropes, etc.?
We have no strength as a profession when all we do is complain about how we are underpaid or underemployed or unemployed. Why give the employers all the power in this field while leaving ourselves little or no power as a professional group.
I have seen little or no discussion, much less action toward improving our "hand" as a group. Maybe a "UNION" model is one that we need to examine. I would be interested to hear an intelligent discussion about this topic.
Cheers
P.S. FYI. I am employed as an IT Manager of a midsized nonprofit in the US. But I am a realist and know that there is little to no job security from day to day in any organization (including mine)in this country. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-27, 2:45 am |
| It's already been done; there are some professional organizations lobbying on behalf of IT workers.
I'm on the mailing list of one of them, The Progreammer's Guild. | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-27, 4:04 am |
| I don't think I'm underpaid, but I sure do miss the glory days of 2000. I'm making about 30% less than I did 4 years ago. | |
| Supertech 2004-03-27, 9:23 pm |
| quote:
Are You A Well Qualified/Experienced Yet Underpaid or Unemployed IT Professional ?
No. | |
| mdtran 2004-03-28, 9:10 am |
| For the very first time in my IT career, now I am experiencing difficulties in looking for another job.
I realize I am making top $ for the position that I am in now, but I consider myself more qualified and more competent than most of my collegues. The issue is I don't want to do this same job for next 5 or 10 years of my life. I am a learner, and continuing to learn different technoloies;
My VP promised to move me somewhere warm, but later changed her mind due to a few a$$holes told her not to.
Their reason is they already have too many headcounts elsewhere. The truth is they need me at this location because they can't find anyone to replace me. I don't like the way they have treated me. First, they told me it was no problem for me to move South, then later flipfloped, and made me wait 3 f**king months to tell me NO.
I am thinking of quitting and go back to school for my Master or CCIE or Oracle DBA.
What would you do? Thanks! | |
| charlie130 2004-03-28, 11:20 am |
| If I were in your situation, and I know from these discussion boards many others would agree, I would be very happy to have a position. That being said, stay in place and work on a masters degree or CCIE or both, especially if your employer helps foot the bill. Then you will be in an improved position to advance when the time is right either internally or externally. I think it would be foolish to quit a good paying position, especially if it is because of the situation you described. My advice to you is get over it...and focus on additional education be it an advanced cert or advanced degree...
Cheers | |
| darthfeces 2004-03-28, 1:38 pm |
| i also work for a non-profit
i have tons of job security
and i am underpaid ....... for my certifications age and experience
i'm working on my ccie now
and when i get it i'll be the most underpaid ccie in ny ...... | |
| charlie130 2004-03-28, 2:03 pm |
| That is the gig with nonprofits isnt it Darth...alot of great experience, job satisfaction and in most cases job security, but with a discount to market paycheck...I feel your pain...however I have been without the job security and I am happy to have the job vs not have the job...I too have done the salary comparisons for my area and even paid for salary reports from online services that tell me that I should be earning anywhere from 50 to 100 percent more considering my location, education, job responsibilities, years of experience, certifications, etc. The problem with all that is one thing...is there a job available out there that I could have at this time...and in most cases, there isnt, or there is tons of competition for it...that is the fallacy of all the salary surveys I see for our profession...it is for these reasons that I am interested in seeing this profession organized into unions or guilds.
Cheers. | |
| darthfeces 2004-03-28, 2:14 pm |
| the problem is i LIKE my job !!!
i get along with my boss
i have a short day
can work from home via vpn
have 401k and pension.
we surivived layoffs because they cut the jobs they were going to hire.
there won't be any layoffs because we have a skeleton crew as it is.
i explained to my boss that i'd rather have a raise now then more staff help.
the problem i have is they brought in a new cio
who brought in his handpicked senior desktop support guy .... and paid him 80 k
significantly less then i make as the senior network admin.
in charge of all routers,switches, perimiter security and network mangement.... | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-28, 2:43 pm |
| I've been out of work for three years.
I've applied for many positions over the years, but I haven't gotten an interview since mid-August of 2001, not even for junior support positions that pay a fraction of what I used to make before the tech implosion.
RD | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-28, 9:09 pm |
| Darth,
OK, I've gotta call you out on your post.
They pay a simple senior desktop support position 80K?? The cost of living in NJ from where I live is only 20% higher.
The average salary for desktop support positions in my area are 30 - 35K. I'm sorry, but a non-profit (which pays less than average) is NOT going to pay 250% higher salaries, when the cost of living is only 20% higher.
If they do, you're in a much better situation than you realize. | |
| onoski 2004-03-29, 4:43 am |
| Why is there so much arrogance and pride when it comes to IT professionals afterwords you have a job and should be greatful. If not go learn to become a rocket scientist and then I'd listen to your bickerings. | |
| onoski 2004-03-29, 4:48 am |
| DivGuy, don't give up it took me nealy close to 3yrs b4 I found my current IT role. The trick is to find something to do to pay the bills in the mean time whilst still keeping your IT skills knowledge up to date. I have found that it is not always the most experience person that is offered the job but the most enthusiats. Don't give up as if you get two rejects make another four applications for another role. That's exactly what I did and now I can chilled out for a bit. It is tough but rememeber ain't nothing easy in this world as it's a fight to survive. Best wishes | |
| mdtran 2004-03-29, 9:49 am |
| Darth,
80K for a desktop position?
You will find out that you will need to get the hell out of there as soon as you have a chance. We have quite a few high of salary folks but all they can really do is talk talk talk and what if. When we have severity 1 issues in our production environment, then they usually are not the one who solve it. At that time you know who is really a competent IT, then a complete silence on the conference call, then people start asking "How did you fix it?"
Charlie,
I have to agree with you. Having a job is way better than not having one.
But we all know that is too easy.
I have a plan and I am going to execute it.
Onoski,
You're a absolutely correct, this is about pride. If you don't take pride in what you do, then how do you excel? I believe that people who still have a job are very greatful in this economy.
My brother in law has a PHD in Nuclear Physic, so what he does not make as much as I do. I know having a job is very important, but I am not just talking about money here. The point here is people treat you anyway they want when they think they have an advantage over you.
The same manager that snitched me, he used to beg me everyweek to become a permanent a few years earlier.
The point is regardless of the economy condition, you should treat people the way you want to be treated. Can you picture what will happen when the economy is back up?
And that day will be here soon.
Divguy,
Your story scares the sh*t of me.
3 years out of work? What did you do with your skill sets during that period? | |
| DaDnDe 2004-03-29, 6:00 pm |
| i am missing something here i guess.
i re-read darth's post and i was under the impression that the CIO was making 80k. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-29, 6:21 pm |
| quote:
DivGuy, don't give up it
I haven't; I have one slim hope of finding work before the summer.
In the meantime, I am still working on my four-year credential; twelve out of sixty credits left. | |
| DaDnDe 2004-03-29, 7:12 pm |
| Div:
Education is the best life long investment you can make.
at least you are bettering yourself while you look. good luck, things are supposed to be picking up soon. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-29, 11:04 pm |
| I'd like to believe that, but I've been hearing it for years now. :/
And I've been told that I might not be considered for the position because companies that hire new grads get reimbursed half the salaries for the first year by the government. So, some noob may be prospering while I have to work at the video store for minimum wage. Go figure... | |
| darthfeces 2004-03-29, 11:17 pm |
| the cio probubly makes in the 100k range
but he's a phd who's high profile.
the guy's in question's title is "senior desktop support specialist"
i think he has a masters degree and he works mostly on server project work
citrix and such. the title is actually misleading in that my company is struggling to get a clue about (it) job titles and what they actually do.
up until 2 years ago there were tons of "systems analysts" and "system administrators" who set up printers.
i make about 15k less , i am responsible for the day to day network operations. | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-30, 10:15 am |
| I'm a network admin, but my title is Local Service Provider??? I've never figured out how they came up with my title.
The guy who installs cabling is called a Network Support Specialist. He's an older guy who was trained to install cat5 cable. What's funny is he barely knows how to use a computer and has never worked on a server.
So much for titles.... | |
| badger11 2004-03-30, 2:57 pm |
| Right now I would take a job with security over a higher paying non-secure position. I have been in It for 7 years and have been outsourced 2 times and threatened many more times that we would be outsourced if we did not do more. I have had to endure an $11,000 per year pay cut because of the economic situation. My boss managed to get a $20,000 bonus though. The economy is going through some changes that will lead to some good opportunities. About being bullsh#tted by your company, get used to it. All big companies lie to you. I asked my Director about my group being outsourced on a Friday and was told there would be no outsourcing only to come into work on Monday and told to pack my stuff and get out. Right now you should feel good about being wanted and needed by your company. Wait till times are good again to make your move. Good times and bad times never last. | |
| mdtran 2004-03-30, 9:53 pm |
| Badger11,
Thank you for your understanding. I am so glad that we speak the same language here. | |
| LioKaiser 2004-04-01, 3:21 am |
| darthfeces
If you make around 65K as a netadmin at a nonprofit organisation, you are pretty lucky. If you get along with the boss, can work from home, have benefits and most important; job security you have a pretty solid job.
Many netadmin people at firms and companies, even enterprises, make less than that with fewer benefits and almost no job security. |
|
|
|